Dealing with younger girls and testing/challenging

[Herb]

I guess I am technically in the "Mature Man" category, at least age-wise, but just barely. I had a date with this 22 year old last night that started off very well but then devolved into a weird experience, especially due to the way she started testing me. The reason being that she was one of the bluntest, most unapologetically straightforward girls I've ever met or been on a date with, and she told me this from the start. For her age, she's very advanced and ambitious, already having finished grad school two years prior and on track for a lucrative post in the DoD. I'm six years older but my style is a lot more laid back, "go with the flow" and chill in some ways.

We had a good time for the first 45 minutes or so, exchanging witty banter back and forth, mostly in a sort of wry, semi-sarcastic and almost challenging way, with quick back and forth lines like you see in some movies occasionally... It was different from the standard "hey what do you like to watch on Netflix or do for fun" kind of thing. I was okay with this dynamic and kept up with it (in fact I usually do this with a lot of other girls), but she began taking it very far and suddenly started testing me really hard and basically trying to completely tear me apart, out of nowhere. Like implying I was lazy or entitled for taking a year off between undergrad and grad school to travel and do other things, or that I took so long deciding on my major and finishing a year later; she in contrast said she had to work extra hard for everything she did. I was the more immature one because I still liked to party and go to concerts and stuff. Also mentioned that I better not be some creep who still goes for girls her age in four years, and that at 28 I was the oldest age she could consider right now. She was very good at maintaining this deadpan kind of expression even in humor, and it wasn't easy to tell if she was joking or not. Despite that, I later realized she still always had this very subtle undertone like she wasn't completely serious but sort of giving me ****. But there was just no reference of a normal, "default" aspect to her to compare her current demeanor or attitude to, so it kind of threw me off.

In the middle of the date she had hinted, not so subtly, that her housemates were overseas and she had her place, nearby, to herself. I didn't immediately jump at this like some overeager puppy, but acknowledged and played it cool for the next few minutes. Then she started turning up her tests even more, telling me I seemed like a stuffy New Yorker and suddenly asking about how I'd figure out a way to invite myself over to her place, and saying I'd probably do it in a weird or awkward way, and that I came across as shy or insecure. This really threw me off, since I didn't think I seemed quite that way at this point in life, and I'd made progress in addressing that over time. There was never a moment of awkward silence in our date till then, and we were going back and forth rather well, and I definitely spoke my mind on things, so I'm not sure where that came from. She was saying how much she liked our server (a young lady) and how cool/nice she was, clearly implying a distinction between me and her just to screw with me. She then said something like, "I actually wanted to make out with you and wouldn't have minded a hook up, but now I think it will just be weird"... and that I'm likely the kind of guy to try making a pun in the middle of sex. How are you supposed to react to someone just blatantly saying that lol?? I've never had that happen. Being older than her, it was a weird situation to be put in, especially as she pointed out some kind of real issues with my own personality. I expected her to be this easy, bubbly, immature kind of sorority type girl from my initial impression (which I've dealt with fairly well in the past) but I was very wrong.

She told me that things weren't going too great now and that she'd probably just go home, but warned me that I'd have to try really hard if I wanted anything to happen. Said she'd rather just watch some show at home, and I made a netflix n chill kind of joke but she said she wasn't technically inviting me. She then asked me to give her a ride home and kept up the **** tests along the way, but in a kind of really harsh and critical way. I mostly brushed them off but at times made my retorts a little too harsh myself; she said I sounded butthurt and affected lol. I'll admit that last thing she said, questioning my makeout and sex skills before the fact kind of affected me since it caught me off guard. While we were almost back, she told me that she was originally actually very attracted to me, but the way she was talking now was as if that moment had passed.. she even questioned whether I was actually interested in her, and when I replied in a jokingly ambiguous way, she called out my "neg" (even using that terminology lol). There was honestly a chance to probably turn it around when we parked in front of her place. I should've just gone for a kiss then (I honestly think she was half-expecting me to based on what she was saying at the time), but the weirdness of the preceding half hour with all those challenges just affected me too much and kind of killed my confidence. Instead we had this odd sort of heart to heart about life and dating in general and where I went wrong and how this compared to other dates she'd been on (she said it wasn't any worse than some others and she managed to make some other guys even more uncomfortable), and she gave me some pointers. Obviously, by taking this route, I sealed myself out from any sexual prospect with her. Which was very disappointing since she was quite hot and it was almost there for the taking.

Has anyone been tested this much in a single date? At least I learned a good bit from this experience and it caused me to kind of wake up. And again, to clarify, I'm not hung up over this particular girl; I just want to know how to avoid this kind of situation in the future, since it was unexpected.

 

[dude99]

I didn't read it all but i thought i would throw my imput in on this "young lady."

She was trying waaaaay to hard to be smarter than she actually was. She was trying to use heavy sarcasm to throw you off of your game because she was completly insecure and too immature. Yes you read that right. She is book smart. Probably graduated ahead of everyone but this left her socially akward and immature because she was never hanging out with peoplw her own age. Probably a spoiled prodigy, and daddy's little girl. She tried waay to hard to over compensate and created nothing but akward for the whole night.

You should have just said nothing and got up from the table and left.

 

[fastlife]

There was honestly a chance to probably turn it around when we parked in front of her place. I should've just gone for a kiss then (I honestly think she was half-expecting me to based on what she was saying at the time), but the weirdness of the preceding half hour with all those challenges just affected me too much and kind of killed my confidence.

Mission accomplished--on her end. She was waiting for you to 1.) Put her in her place or 2.) Be 100% unaffected. Girls are very savvy that way--and I've noticed the older I get, the more younger girls test me for that type of dominance (the smarter they are, the more sophisticated these 'tests' are). For you, she hit too close too home and that's on you.

Some guys might dismiss her for being disrespectful or insecure or 'not worth your time'--but really she's just navigating a (possibly) new situation with the best skills she has and possibly trying to test the powers of her peak SMV and its effects over grown men (like you). On the flipside, she might've thought you are out of her league a little bit and was trying to even the playing field (which is how you want her to always feel, which is why you can just tease her on it). But you disqualified yourself even though she really really really wanted you to sleep with her!!!! And if you had reacted differently, she might've been the sweetest girl in the world.

I actually had a girl act similarly on a SNL a couple days ago--generally aloof and teasing me about being old or thinking I was cool or being a player--but she was still with me at the end of the night (just like the one in your story) and I know what that means. I just laughed it off, busted on her, disqualified her, talked to other girls, focused on my friends; and by the end of the night she was the sweet & submissive little girl she really wanted to be the whole time; but growing up as a hot girl in the West in 2016, she's been conditioned not to trust men to deal properly with her being submissive (hell, her dad probably doesn't even hold frame with her). Still little tests every now and then--but I deal with it and each time she's a little sweeter and a little more submissive.

For girls like this, I just make sure to always run the frame & it doesn't take much (disqualify, agree & amplify, set the frame that you're the one qualifying her & her behaviors):
"Don't be weird."
"Be normal."
"Be cool."
"Don't try so hard."
"God, you're so stuck up."
"You're too shy for me."
"I'm such a creep. So old. You should call me daddy."
"I like laid back girls. You're too uptight for me. Never stop to enjoy life--you probably wake up every morning and make a list of all the things you need to do today."
"I'm such a slob. A lazy, no good deadbeat. Tell me I'm a deadbeat, girl."
"We won't get along. You need a pet--a good little dog who will jump through hoops. Good boy, good boy. That's not me."
"My mom's calling. Gotta go" (Playfully--and turn around and act like you're leaving).

The girls that don't test you this way are possibly more naive, innocent, less experienced, more thoroughly feminine; but just as likely they're low self-esteem & highly promiscuous. IME, anyway--they don't feel entitled to test you. But get used to it. I'd highly recommend the free RSD videos on Youtube from Julien, Madison & Max. That is what matches up with what I'm running into & what works. Learn to have fun with it and enjoy the back and forth. OR you could just decide you 'won't tolerate this type of disrespect' and go after girls closer too your age (who can't act this way because of the Wall) or girls that aren't hot (who also can't act this way, even though some of them do) or you could relocate to a country where girls are still taught how to express their femininity without you leading them into the type of behavior you want (which isn't a bad plan but, depending on your life goals, might not match up and even then if you carry around the type of insecurities you have now, those girls will walk all over you, too, just a little more subtly).

 

[CMNILS87]

Easy. She starts talking about how you'll try to invite yourself over....she's obviously thinking about sex with you

Frame busters
1. Talking about me coming back already? You must something naughty on the brain. Knock it off

2. We could just make this easy and you can just invite me over and we can cut the chit chat

 

[sazc]

This chick has issues. It sounds like she lacks self esteem and tries to make people in her life feel crappy so she will feel superior. She's taking out her aggression on men/people on her dates. I dont know why you bothered spending more than 5 minutes with her after she started being a b!tch to you. You are on a date and she is life coaching you? Aw Hayell no!

A normal person on a date is trying to be cool, NON confrontational and get to know the other person in order to see if they are compatible. If you want to get 'close' to someone you DONT be confrontational on a date and you definitely DONT have the peron tell you details of their life and happenings only to put them down about the same stuff 5 minutes later!

If you are EVER faced with this situation again, male or female, you need to excuse yourself, start walking away, and keep walking. Seriously, you have GOT to have better boundaries.

She's not your problem, she can hitchhike or uber home. If you can stick her with the check, even better!

 

[Serenity]

What the fvck?!! This girl is lost.
You reacted normally to her, you're two very different personalities. Reading this I'd say she insulted you and looked down on you, not very attractive IMO. You like to be laid back, have fun and enjoy life which there's nothing wrong with. She doesn't act like she's had fun for a long while or even knows what fun is anymore. She's driven to be super productive and too much of that stuff is no good for inter-personal relations.

Who cares what their degrees or jobs are? You can't fvck a girls job, her job is irrelevant as long as it's an ok job or better.

You didn't lose your confidence I think, you lost attraction to her because she fvcked up with her sketchy personality. If in any case you'd want to fvck her just for the sake of it you'd have to get on her level. Call out stupid sh!t, be blunt and let her silly sh!t tests just roll off. Personally I'd have a hard time not laughing with a girl such as this, her behavior is pathetic. If I did get as far as fvcking this one I'd throw out the dumbest pun I can think of, just for my own amusement. This is the type of girl you have to tease like crazy, almost to the point of bullying.

 

[GrayWolf76]

Personally I think this girl would be a good girl to practice your **** test responses with. She seems awkward but trying to discover her way.

 

[Herb]

If she isn't behaving like a feminine woman - do not treat her like one.

You were playing the nice-guy "gentleman", and that's why you got walked over.

True. She wasn't very feminine in her actions. I just wish I would've noticed that in the heat of the moment and responded appropriately. I did joke back and retort to some things, but to her it came across as being "triggered" and butt hurt.

Honestly, if she would have said some of the things she did in a more obviously sarcastic or joking kind of tone, I would've probably reacted better and more normally, but, whatever her reasons for it, she was very effective at maintaining a straight face and serious tone when saying these things, even though part of me knew better. It was just kind of an odd experience, since there was that mismatch between words, how they are said, and the actions she took (and later, in retrospect, it seemed more obvious she was testing and not as serious as I thought, but in the heat of the moment, I wasn't thinking quickly as she succeeded in getting me into a defensive mode).

"I'm such a creep. So old. You should call me daddy."
"I like laid back girls. You're too uptight for me. Never stop to enjoy life--you probably wake up every morning and make a list of all the things you need to do today."
"I'm such a slob. A lazy, no good deadbeat. Tell me I'm a deadbeat, girl."

Yeah I thought about using those kinds of lines right after I missed the chance to say them, but timing is everything lol. I have another friend who would've responded something like "well I probably won't be alive in 4 years anyway, so no I won't be hitting on girls your age".

Easy. She starts talking about how you'll try to invite yourself over....she's obviously thinking about sex with you

Frame busters
1. Talking about me coming back already? You must something naughty on the brain. Knock it off

2. We could just make this easy and you can just invite me over and we can cut the chit chat

Of course I thought that. But I think with her it would've taken a little extra, since by this point she was basically calling me out on every thing I did, even strategies for sealing the deal. Also, as I mentioned earlier, the way she said it threw me off, since she said "yes I was thinking about that but now I think it will suck". She didn't really say or hint at anything like "prove me wrong". She sounded as if she'd already made up her mind about me and was disappointed. I could've turned it around, yeah, but then I started secretly questioning my own ability. To be honest, I'm not exactly the most experienced expert at sex yet, since I only started (in earnest) rather late, only about five years ago, and haven't had consistent sex the entire time since then either. Normally I'd be okay, but in this situation, it felt weird because she was younger and probably assuming or hoping that I'd be great at it in every way and amaze her; I worried that if I didn't, especially after trying to assure her I would "prove her wrong", I would look extra bad.

She was trying waaaaay to hard to be smarter than she actually was. She was trying to use heavy sarcasm to throw you off of your game because she was completly insecure and too immature. Yes you read that right. She is book smart. Probably graduated ahead of everyone but this left her socially akward and immature because she was never hanging out with peoplw her own age. Probably a spoiled prodigy, and daddy's little girl. She tried waay to hard to over compensate and created nothing but akward for the whole night.

Some guys might dismiss her for being disrespectful or insecure or 'not worth your time'--but really she's just navigating a (possibly) new situation with the best skills she has and possibly trying to test the powers of her peak SMV and its effects over grown men (like you). On the flipside, she might've thought you are out of her league a little bit and was trying to even the playing field (which is how you want her to always feel, which is why you can just tease her on it).

Yes, she also clearly had her insecurities and definitely wanted to come across as smart (in fact once she even blatantly told me "I'm actually quite intelligent", as if I wouldn't notice that on my own). I'm guessing she thought that her being a bit younger meant she had to sort of "prove" herself to me, even if that meant doing it in the way she did. Maybe it all started off with the sort of casual sarcastic sense of humor I used and she felt she had to go toe-to-toe with me and basically turned up the dial all the way by the end of the night, but went a little past the point of comfort and fun.

She doesn't act like she's had fun for a long while or even knows what fun is anymore. She's driven to be super productive and too much of that stuff is no good for inter-personal relations.

Maybe.. I know I made it sound that way, but as driven as she was, I don't think she was completely "serious business" and un-fun; she could still drink pretty well and liked doing some more chill things in her off time.

I honestly think she wanted me to pass her tests and then actually hook up with her. There was a slight air of disappointment at the end of the night from her. I just don't know what caused her to go as far as she did, and why she resorted to rather low and personal jabs at my entire lifestyle and personality. Those did kind of hit home; it's also possible one of the jokes I made earlier in the date, trying to qualify her to me (I said something about not docking off points when she told me she didn't want me to get the wrong idea about the way she voraciously devoured her food), might have slightly rubbed her the wrong way and caused her to do this in return, even though ultimately she was probably hoping I'd see through the test and put her in her place. But the good thing about this experience is I'm going to be more prepared for next time. I never quite had a date like this, and usually stuck with girls around my age, so I clearly wasn't prepared. At least it wasn't a boring date, that's for sure.

The funny thing is, I've previously dated a girl who's a year and a half *older* than me and who is actually *more* immature than me (she was almost a virgin at the age of 28 and lived with her parents). So this recent date was very contrasted.

As weird as it sounds, I kind of almost want to give this type of experience (from the OP) another go, now that I'm more ready for it, heheh. I feel like the sex after this kind of thing would be the best.