How FORGIVENESS is your friend...

[JohnChops]

I agree with this thread as a whole. 1. You cannot control circumstances out of your reach, so why get mad? 2. Being angry with everyone and being bitter is a waste of energy. 3. Who the flying **** wants to be mad at the world? Be happy. Life's short.

 

[Alvafe]

I think we had this post once before, and I will say something close like I said before

I don't forgive, I can let it go and not care about what you do anymore, but I will not forgive you, and that measn if you do something I think is completely out of line I will move on and leave the garbage behind, there is no forgiviness from me, I will learn from it and with that knowledge I will get better, but that also means I will not waste time with that person anymore.

quick example? my mom, I stoped listening what she said and belived was right, because when I was younger I followed then and crashed hard, then I start doing it my way or exactly waht she told me not to do, then things started to go better, she hate that about me and I don't care, I learned I can't trust her on this and there is no way for me to do that mistake again

 

[Reykhel]

 

[Reykhel]

 

[Bayne05]

It took me a while to realise this but the moment you get angry you lose your frame. You use so much energy hating someone you lose sight of what's important in your life.

I've taught myself to forgive when I can, and I'm saying when I can because in some situations it's not so easy to let go. If I seriously can't forgive then I distance myself from the problem and shift my focus to something else until it no longer bothers me. Either way I don't compromise with my peace of mind.

 

[Reykhel]

With what words do you forgive an abusive ex?

I mean, I'm completely over it (yes, I was longtime very angry. How could she.), I feel sorry for her because I understand she is still struggling with herself.

Last time we got contact was 2y ago when she tried again in an unrespectful way to contact me. I turned her then heavily down and finally she stopt contact.

Or I keep the forgiveness in my head?
(by coincidence, I asked this week a common friend how she goes actually, cause I really hope she goes well, after all)

Yes, you can keep forgiveness in your head......the other person does not have to be involved. I mean, what if you need to forgive a
dead parent......it would be a one way conversation. But why would you need to forgive them? Well, the point of the thread......to free yourself from emotional connections to the persons. To let go of resentments that are most likely manifesting themselves as neurotic behaviors in your life...

Again, to repeat, this is not about condoning behavior nor is it about being a pushover.......this is about mentally freeing yourself from the person.

In the case of your ex.......whatever behavior she presented and brought to your life was negative or/and toxic......so you did the right thing and axed her from your life.....(that's not being a pushover, it's taking assertive action to rid the toxic person from your life)

Now, a couple of years later, you find that she is still in your head, because perhaps there is still anger and resentment and maybe disappointment there.......
What to do? Forgive? Never! That's been a pushover and maybe indicates that I want her back! I'm being facetious, but according to some responses that seems to be the interpretation...
What to you? You forgive....in your head....without ever having to speak to her. You see, you've got rid of her physically, but unless you let ****e go.....you forever chained to her ghost forever......
So you forgive to ride the toxic person emotionally from your life, that's not being a pushover, that's taking assertive, healing action...

How? A simple phrase "I forgive you for not being who I wanted you to be. I forgive you and let you go...." ........mentally watch the person or the thoughts get smaller and go out the window or up to to the clouds.

In that phrase is the acknowledgement that the person didn't meet your expectations.....In other words, your taking responsibility for having expectations and standards. You're not being a victim and stating "oh I forgive you for the mean things you did to me"

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

Forgiving is not about condoning someone's behavior. Neither is it really anything to do with the other person (meaning you don't even have to see nor speak to the other person again) Forgiveness is not necessarily walking up to the person and saying I forgive you dear (which probably would make you a doormat) Forgiveness is all about you, and freeing yourself from the emotional chains of that other person.

Interesting view of forgiveness. It usually involves a dialogue between two people along the lines of, 'I forgive you'. There seems to be an emotional release for both parties.

I think it also serves to moderate the excesses of the ego, an ego which is power-seeking... looking to protect itself, which just reflects insecurity.

If there were such a thing as a general state of forgiveness then perhaps it would be one of openness toward everything.

 

[Desdinova]

I'm not talking about forgiving your cheating ex with the motivation/intention of hoping for a possible reconciliation and fixing your
broken marriage which you've alluded to

But that's what forgiveness is. It's forgiving, forgetting, and carrying on as you did.

Forgiveness is all about you, and freeing yourself from the emotional chains of that other person.

That's just plain forgetting. You can do that without forgiving.

 

[Reykhel]

But that's what forgiveness is. It's forgiving, forgetting, and carrying on as you did.



That's just plain forgetting. You can do that without forgiving.

No, it's not.

Again, I'm loath to even respond because you're coming at this from a completely different paradigm. I'm reminded of the optical illusion photo story of the old woman and the young woman. Same picture, different perceptions.

You can "forget" something and maybe sometimes it is forgotten and gone, but unfortunately not, this is a honeycombed world. Memory and experience is built and stored in our psyche. Now, while we often think that something is forgotten, it's often metaphorically swept under the carpet in our psyche. With the possibility of manifesting itself years later in some form of self defeating behavior.

There are people who discover childhood issues resurfacing in their forties, issues they thought were long forgotten, but in fact, the were never PROCESSED NOR LET GO OF.........

How many people on this site are still talking about their ex's from years ago........I know you could say, everything's a reference point......but learn the lesson, let go and move on........there's no need to keep rehashing it and reliving it.

Now, I know there are a lot of people here who are a fan of your high score theory. Personally, I don't get why you would break into your ex's Facebook account, time and time again, and collect "data" based on her searches........and then spend your time compiling "spreadsheets" based on this data............no offense intended, but aren't you still attached to her? Haven't you let her go? is the very idea of forgiveness or letting her go so frightening that you reject it outright under the guise of not wanting to be a "pushover"?

Are you getting an ego boost every time you stalk her Facebook account.....or break into her account and discover that she has searched you once again this month? The ego boost of knowing you're "at the top of her list", the list that you've made up? Are you attached to this ego boost and letting go would be to let go of this ego gratification?

.....just a thought.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

I would like to add on to what you and some of the other posters had stated:

Forgive, but don't forget. You are only asking to be hurt again. Not learning from your mistakes is the biggest mistake. The same goes for your past experiences. You release the hatred you have towards certain people/events/things because you don't want that hatred to eat you up inside. But that doesn't mean you will trust that person or thing or event again. There also comes times where you should not forgive. Forgiving yourself for example. There were things that I've done in my life that I weren't proud of. Most of them, I just accepted that they happened because I didn't know any better or whatever. But when all the way until I was 13, I was the crappiest brother in the world, so mean to my younger brother, so EVIL to him. I remember watching an eipsode of The Walking Dead then over winter break, and there was an episode where even though Dale And Merle argued a lot, they dtuck with each other and would die for each other. But there was one episode where Merle died and Dale became distraught. I cried because I wondered what I would do if my brother died. Ever since then, I was nice to him, even if we may have had a few tussles from then till now. There were times where I had nearly killed him myself. I hurt him so mucha and he looked up to me so much too. I will never ever forgive myself for what I have done to him. I owe him my life, and then some. I need to remember that what I have done was evil. There are times like these where you should not forgive. And it is the times like these that motivate you to strive towards becoming a greater person. There are other times I remember where I was not athletic enough or strong enough or didn't have good enough social skills. I have forgiven myself for most of these as they were not my fault. But I will not completely release feelings these events gave me. Because these feelings are what fuel the urge to become stronger, faster, greater, etc. I will never be the same person I was ever again.

Reykhel, there are also some people who are unforgiveable. The Japanese soldiers who speared pregnant women in their bellies and raped them, the Syrian soldiers who mutilate the bodies of kids they kidnap and send the dead bodies back to their parents when asked "where is my child", or the surgeons selling blind, limbless child prostitutes on TOR. Such people cannot be forgiven.

 

[playa99]

Great post. There are a lot of people I need to forgive and let go of, which I am going to do now.

By forgiving people you aren't being a doormat, you are saying that you accept their actions and are moving on with your life.

It relates specifically to my life at the minute, we have a contract with a national company, which is in turmoil.

Concomitantly the contract is not in our best interests. We make the most profit out of SME's in high volume. Doing this contract has detracted from that.

One of the directors is being a douche, but I understand why he's being the way he's being. He is in the position of power over us as external consultants. I forgive him. He's doing what he has to do to keep his job. We need to move on, it's in our best interests.

I forgive my old friends, who called me a sellout when I was travelling the world and growing my business. They don't understand the commitment needed and the improvement I'm making.

I feel relaxed for the first time in a long time.

 

[Tony197]

Forgiveness is not for the other person, it's for you. Forgiveness removes the poison of anger from your heart. Forgiveness sets YOU free.

 

[PantyWhisperer]

Yes, you can keep forgiveness in your head......the other person does not have to be involved. I mean, what if you need to forgive a
dead parent......it would be a one way conversation. But why would you need to forgive them? Well, the point of the thread......to free yourself from emotional connections to the persons. To let go of resentments that are most likely manifesting themselves as neurotic behaviors in your life...

Again, to repeat, this is not about condoning behavior nor is it about being a pushover.......this is about mentally freeing yourself from the person.

In the case of your ex.......whatever behavior she presented and brought to your life was negative or/and toxic......so you did the right thing and axed her from your life.....(that's not being a pushover, it's taking assertive action to rid the toxic person from your life)

Now, a couple of years later, you find that she is still in your head, because perhaps there is still anger and resentment and maybe disappointment there.......
What to do? Forgive? Never! That's been a pushover and maybe indicates that I want her back! I'm being facetious, but according to some responses that seems to be the interpretation...
What to you? You forgive....in your head....without ever having to speak to her. You see, you've got rid of her physically, but unless you let ****e go.....you forever chained to her ghost forever......
So you forgive to ride the toxic person emotionally from your life, that's not being a pushover, that's taking assertive, healing action...

How? A simple phrase "I forgive you for not being who I wanted you to be. I forgive you and let you go...." ........mentally watch the person or the thoughts get smaller and go out the window or up to to the clouds.

In that phrase is the acknowledgement that the person didn't meet your expectations.....In other words, your taking responsibility for having expectations and standards. You're not being a victim and stating "oh I forgive you for the mean things you did to me"

I hear what your saying and I have tried that a lot myself. But saying over and over, in my head, that I forgive someone gets me nowhere. Because, at the end of the day, I don't forgive them. I can't get to that place in a situation where I've felt really wronged.
I had an ex that forced me to pay for an abortion that wasn't mine. She forced me to believe for over 2.5 years that I paid for the murder of my own unborn child and has never admitted the truth. As far as she knows, I still believe the lie. I just don't know how to get to a place, ever, where I can forgive that. I'd love to be able to do that, but no matter how many times I say it in my head, I can't get there.

 

[Atom Smasher]

The way I see it, forgiveness (which is actually a highly nuanced word and is not all that standardized), involves removing one's emotional involvement in the situation and reframing to a dispassionate view.

For example, my former BPD is forgiven by me because I realize she is mentally ill and that the BPD truly cannot help themselves.

For others who wrong me, I try to forgive them by realizing that their perception of a matter is different from mine.

For the authentic a$$hole who intentionally wrongs me, I try to remove my emotion from the situation and depersonalize it by thinking to myself that a$$holes are stuck in a pattern of behavior and are lost in that. I will dispassionately exact "corrective measures" is given the opportunity, but will not dwell on it and seek out revenge.

I view holding a grudge as giving the other person ownership of my mind. They are my jailer. The person is running around without a thought of me while inside my brain they are in control of my emotions. Therefore holding unforgiveness is not a tenable situation.

For me, the key is to reframe to a dispassionate view, put the blame on the other person's shortcomings and look at it in sort of a "mechanical" way. If it wasn't me they offended, it would have been someone else.

All easier said than done, but necessary for peace of mind. I always observe that those who hold grudges and walk around saying "I never forgive" are invariably wound too tight and exhibit highly emotional responses to challenges. In other words, they tend to show signs of deep insecurity and therefore walk through life as REACTORS instead of more balanced RESPONDERS.

The overarching formula for me in this is living strategically and tactically, whenever possible.

Remember, forgiveness really has nothing to do with the other person, but everything to do with freeing yourself.

 

[guru1000]

"I don't forgive them," "I've felt really wronged," "forced me," "I paid for the murder," "I still believe the lie."

Easier said than done, I agree. I quote the aforementioned "loaded" words to demonstrate how much of an unconscious influence unsettled thoughts and words could contribute to our psychological health and psyche, thus materially impacting present conscious thinking and behavior.

What I would ask myself in your shoes: Do I choose to allow her (not HER) to continue to capitalize on and win power over my psyche? No individual or event has that kind of power over me. No-sirr-ee. The irony here is the worst type of immurement is psychological, which is self-contrived, directed by our own hands.

 

[Silko]

All easier said than done, but necessary for peace of mind. I always observe that those who hold grudges and walk around saying "I never forgive" are invariably wound too tight and exhibit highly emotional responses to challenges. In other words, they tend to show signs of deep insecurity and therefore walk through life as REACTORS instead of more balanced RESPONDERS.

It's difficult if you need to forgive those people who had actually to care for you.
I could forgive my parents (mother insecure, father emotional abusive) ... but their behaving remains. Especially my mother once.

It's difficult because they will never change anymore.
This is too my weakness ... tending to connect to same kind of people with the same sh1t thus.

I'm not blaming them. It's my issue and working on to heal bit by bit. It's not healing, it's just becoming closer to myself and erase badly grown up feelings and attitudes.

 

[resilient]

I held onto deep resentment for feeling abandoned when my ex-wife was leaving me last fall around this time. I didn't want to forgive her after doing everything humanly possible to save the marriage and her indifference attitude as she walked out with ease. I couldn't emotionally let go and turn off my attachment after investing ten years into the relationship.

In that last month we were living under the same roof separated, she looked for an apartment, while I stayed up late sleeping in another room. I read, journaled, came back to this site and did some soul searching. I wanted to get to a place where I could psychologically allow myself to let go of my attachment to her, marriage, and my spiritual contract with God.

One of the best videos, I watched that helped get into the frame of forgiveness ironically came from a YouTuber who seems to have Buddhism beliefs (I'm Christian), but learned some universal truths of letting go that I think you guys might find helpful when you're struggling to let go of the hurt, pain someone else "caused" you or fell short of your "expectations" of them.

I agree what some others have echoed in this thread that forgiveness is for yourself not for her or someone else that you feel wronged you. It's truly that moment of letting go of the power of attachment and taking back your self worth for yourself because you know you're worth it and respect who are and the DJ you're still striving to be.

 

[Desdinova]

Now, I know there are a lot of people here who are a fan of your high score theory. Personally, I don't get why you would break into your ex's Facebook account, time and time again, and collect "data" based on her searches........and then spend your time compiling "spreadsheets" based on this data............no offense intended, but aren't you still attached to her? Haven't you let her go? is the very idea of forgiveness or letting her go so frightening that you reject it outright under the guise of not wanting to be a "pushover"?

I still feel something for pretty much every woman I've dated. I feel fondness for the good times that I had with them. I tend to remember those things but I never think of getting back together with them. The emotions have faded from the reasons why I broke up with them, but I still know why I ended those relationships. It was usually something to do with my own morals and how those women didn't fit in with what I wanted in a companion.

Should I forgive them for not being what I wanted? Should I forgive them for doing things that ruined their relationship with me?

I have very little bitterness toward the women I've dated and split up with. You might call that forgiveness, but I don't.

I'm going to share a piece from the book "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward. Before I read the chapter on forgiveness, I was very much frustrated with the subject. I'm not anymore, and this makes perfect sense to me...

-----------------------------

One of the most dangerous things about forgiveness is that it undercuts your ability to let go of your pent-up emotions. How can you acknowledge your anger against a parent whom you've already forgiven? Responsibility can only go one of two places: outward, onto the people who have hurt you, or inward, into yourself. Someone's got to be responsible. So you may forgive your parents but end up hating yourself all the more in exchange.

I also noticed that many clients rushed to forgiveness to avoid much of the painful work of therapy. They believed that by forgiving they could find a shortcut to feeling better. A handful of them "forgave," left therapy, and wound up sinking even deeper into depression or anxiety.

Some of these clients clung to their fantasies: "All I have to do is forgive and I will be healed, I will have wonderful mental health, everybody is going to love everybody, we'll hug a lot, and we'll finally be happy." Clients all too often discovered that the empty promise of forgiveness had merely set them up for bitter disappointment. Some of them experienced a rush of well-being, but it didn't last because nothing had really changed in the way they felt or in their family interactions.

-----------------------------

I simply cannot do free forgiving. It makes me feel like I was an idiot to let the particular infraction bother me. 'Maybe she really wasn't a wh0re. Maybe I jumped too quickly to conclusions. Maybe my ex-wife really wasn't cheating on me with him.'

I feel a whole lot better when I get my frustrations out and then move on. Then I laugh about it years later. "She probably fvcked the gear shift on her new car!"

If freely forgiving the women who've fvcked up your relationship works for you, then by all means keep doing it. Your method isn't going to work for everyone. I prefer to be reminded of how she ended those good times by fvcking up. When she tries to get back together with me, all I see is a huge red flag waving above her head. Every one of my exes has earned a huge red flag. They are no longer worthy of my affection, devotion or loyalty simply because they are an ex. I refuse to forgive them.

 

[Reykhel]

I'm in BLACK

I still feel something for pretty much every woman I've dated. I feel fondness for the good times that I had with them. I tend to remember those things but I never think of getting back together with them. The emotions have faded from the reasons why I broke up with them, but I still know why I ended those relationships. It was usually something to do with my own morals and how those women didn't fit in with what I wanted in a companion.

Should I forgive them for not being what I wanted? If you have no resentment because of that fact then why would you need to. I cannot comprehend that you don't have the intelligence to grasp the fact that you don't need to forgive where there is no need. I'm talking about freeing yourself from the emotional clutches of someone where emotional clutches exist. How you fail to get that is baffling. Should I forgive them for doing things that ruined their relationship with me? Again, if you are carrying that with you as a huge resentment which is eating away at you, then yes. If you are not carrying any resentment due to this fact, then how you feel the need to ask that question, I do not know.

I have very little bitterness toward the women I've dated and split up with. You might call that forgiveness, but I don't. No I wouldn't call that forgiveness. Again, you're demonstrating your failure to understand the thread and putting words in my mouth. How can forgiveness exist where there was never a need for it to take place in the first place. Seriously, it's not logical or sensical that last statement.

I'm going to share a piece from the book "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward. Before I read the chapter on forgiveness, I was very much frustrated with the subject. I'm not anymore, and this makes perfect sense to me...

-----------------------------

One of the most dangerous things about forgiveness is that it undercuts your ability to let go of your pent-up emotions. How can you acknowledge your anger against a parent whom you've already forgiven? Responsibility can only go one of two places: outward, onto the people who have hurt you, or inward, into yourself. Someone's got to be responsible. So you may forgive your parents but end up hating yourself all the more in exchange.

I also noticed that many clients rushed to forgiveness to avoid much of the painful work of therapy. They believed that by forgiving they could find a shortcut to feeling better. A handful of them "forgave," left therapy, and wound up sinking even deeper into depression or anxiety.

Some of these clients clung to their fantasies: "All I have to do is forgive and I will be healed, I will have wonderful mental health, everybody is going to love everybody, we'll hug a lot, and we'll finally be happy." Clients all too often discovered that the empty promise of forgiveness had merely set them up for bitter disappointment. Some of them experienced a rush of well-being, but it didn't last because nothing had really changed in the way they felt or in their family interactions.

-----------------------------It's a book and an author that wouldn't really interest me. I follow a Buddhist philosophy among other things. I don't expect that to interest you. Again, we are on two different spectrums. Any pent up frustration or stress I may feel is probably diminished by many years of hitting bags. I don't tend to have a lot of anger or frustration that I need to release. One moment of anger can do ions of kindness, says a famous buddhist text.

I simply cannot do free forgiving. It makes me feel like I was an idiot to let the particular infraction bother me. 'Maybe she really wasn't a wh0re. Maybe I jumped too quickly to conclusions. Maybe my ex-wife really wasn't cheating on me with him.' Again, you're confusing the issue here. What your suggesting is delusional thinking. That couldn't be further from what I'm getting at. If you want to forgive a cheating wife it's not with the intention of deluding yourself neither is it with the intention of getting back with her. It's with the intention of facing reality head and rising the fvck above it. You actually say I forgive her for being the way she is she can't help being a low grade, skank that lacks integrity. You almost feel compassion (try not confuse yourself her, it's not compassion to get back with her or to tell her "hey it's okay baby". It's to rise above it. Stephen Covey says Seek to understand and then be understood.

I feel a whole lot better when I get my frustrations out and then move on. Then I laugh about it years later. "She probably fvcked the gear shift on her new car!" Then you don't need to forgive. Those who hold on to grudges and resentments, have a need to forgive. Seriously, tell me you are getting that. ................

If freely forgiving the women who've fvcked up your relationship works for you, then by all means keep doing it. Again I think your projecting your own relationship problems here, as I don't think I've mentioned anything about my past relationships in this thread.Your method isn't going to work for everyone. It's not a method, nor is it mine. I prefer to be reminded of how she ended those good times by fvcking up. When she tries to get back together with me, all I see is a huge red flag waving above her head. So every ex will tries to get back with you so you like to keep their bad behavior in your head so you'll remember not to get back with them. righto. That's right you top their list and they all want to get back with you.Every one of my exes has earned a huge red flag. They are no longer worthy of my affection, devotion or loyalty simply because they are an ex. Not sure how you relate affection, devotion or loyalty to forgiveness. That's a strange one indeed.However, I will recognize that you do show a lot of devotion to the ex that you stalk on Facebook. I refuse to forgive them.

You've kind being saying that you have no need to, so why would you do something that you have no need to do.

I think you're greatly confusing the issue and making a lot of incorrect assumptions.

Again, I have not mentioned any of my ex's in this thread, but just for the record, I don't have a tendency to stay in contact with any ex's, neither do I have any issues with any of them from the past. I also don't use Facebook, but if I did, I wouldn't imagine that I would be breaking into their account 4 years later to obsess about their searches.

I have a suspicion that there's a bigger issue at play rather than your incapacity to grasp the concept presented in this thread. You alluded to being alpha by how you would act if someone was trying to "out alpha" you in a previous thread, yet you stalk your ex on Facebook four years after breaking up and break into her account.....for what? to compile spreadsheets based on her "searches"? putting yourself on the spreadsheet with her other ex's and seeing who comes out on top? a bit weird and nerdy

 

[Desdinova]

I'm talking about freeing yourself from the emotional clutches of someone where emotional clutches exist. How you fail to get that is baffling.

I don't have this issue because the emotions detach and fade from the memories on their own. So what's the point in forgiveness if your brain does this on it's own?

I also don't use Facebook, but if I did, I wouldn't imagine that I would be breaking into their account 4 years later to obsess about their searches.

I'm not sure what the point is of bringing up my HST thread in here, but if you need me to explain it... I used her FB account to verify something that I already suspected. She isn't the only woman I'm seeing validation of HST. You can throw my ex-fiancee, my current GF, and a girl I used to make fun of in school in there as well. Am I obsessing over any of them? Not really. My current GF is the one who's occupying most of my "obsession" at the moment, and that's justified because, well, she's my GF.

You can believe that I'm obsessing over the ex I mentioned in the HST thread if you like. I was much more interested in collecting the data to actually prove what I already suspected; that women have one guy who sits at the top of her fantasies while the others only dream of sitting at such a high level.