Alton Sterling and Philando Castile, Your Thoughts

[Tenacity]

I haven't seen any threads on this here, what do you guys think about this? My theory (I believe I mentioned it before) is still the same and it's that we have a two-sided problem.

- Out Of Control Black Community: We can debate on both sides on how it got this way, where the left side/EyeBRollin/Jaylan would say it's due to the bad history of slavery/Jim Crow that blacks have had in this country, and those on the right will say it's all thug culture....the bottom line is that the black community in the inner cities are out of control with violence, drug activity, broken families, etc.

- Bad Police Officers: You have people policing the out of control black community that are either poorly trained, or flat out afraid of the people in the area....and end up OVER-POLICING them which in some cases results in death when death didn't have to be the option.

The solution is for Black America to embrace group economics. There's $1.1 trillion in spending power that flows through Black America annually, but a dollar stays black for less than 6 hours. We don't support black businesses, we don't build black businesses, etc.

When I say WE, I'm talking about us fellow BLACK PEOPLE. We need to build up our own shyt, establish a strong collective tax and political base.....this gives us power. So if we have a predominate black area the police should LOOK like the people they are policing number one, then number two, if they continue to OVER-POLICE then we take our resources, tax dollars, etc., and move the fvck out of the area. Can't do that when you are living off "the government system", the same government system that you march/protest saying is killing you.

Black on black crime is a far worse problem than the police shootings, but 1 WRONGFUL police shooting is bad enough. But you will not have those wrongful shootings stop until a tax/political/economic base is established for Black America nationwide. Right now, black people don't own shyt, control shyt, build shyt, nor even take responsibility for their own piss poor choices. As a result, we will remain powerless as a COMMUNITY and keep praying to "God" (like Castile's girlfriend was on the video) all the while not having the true muscle to fight back.

 

[Tenacity]

Also to add here. I don't participate in "commenting" on Facebook, but I have a page up in general.

- Most of the people on my friends list and timeline are black.

- Nearly every damn post is something in relation to how they are praying for the nation, how they are very hurt, and how they are very sadden over the Sterling and Castile wrongful police shooting deaths. Which I can understand.

- But check this out. Over the 4th of July weekend this year, 66 shootings took place in Chicago and 5 people died as a result of it. http://www.progressillinois.com/new...go-records-66-shootings-over-july-4th-weekend

- So far this year, over 2,000 shootings have took place in Chicago with hundreds dying this year. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/us/chicago-violence-july-4/

Not....a damn.....word......from anybody on this shyt on my timeline. No prayers being sent, no "being fearful for the nation", no videos being spread around, it's as if NONE of that shyt even happened.

Can somebody help me out here? Why am I seemingly the only FVCKING black person in America that thinks this is weird? I'm not saying don't be outraged over the wrongful cop killings, but why the fvck aren't you just as outraged over 2,000 people being shot and hundreds killed within 180 days or so in Chicago??

 

[Skyline]

Also to add here. I don't participate in "commenting" on Facebook, but I have a page up in general.

- Most of the people on my friends list and timeline are black.

- Nearly every damn post is something in relation to how they are praying for the nation, how they are very hurt, and how they are very sadden over the Sterling and Castile wrongful police shooting deaths. Which I can understand.

- But check this out. Over the 4th of July weekend this year, 66 shootings took place in Chicago and 5 people died as a result of it. http://www.progressillinois.com/new...go-records-66-shootings-over-july-4th-weekend

- So far this year, over 2,000 shootings have took place in Chicago with hundreds dying this year. http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/05/us/chicago-violence-july-4/

Not....a damn.....word......from anybody on this shyt on my timeline. No prayers being sent, no "being fearful for the nation", no videos being spread around, it's as if NONE of that shyt even happened.

Can somebody help me out here? Why am I seemingly the only FVCKING black person in America that thinks this is weird? I'm not saying don't be outraged over the wrongful cop killings, but why the fvck aren't you just as outraged over 2,000 people being shot and hundreds killed within 180 days or so in Chicago??

It's because the police are meant to protect. Most of the media followers don't really seem to care on what happens with their neighbors unless a government official steps in like the police.

Sure 2k shootings happened but they don't seem to care because it's "normal" for them. When a Police shooting happens, whether the action was justified or not, they're still going to play the victim despite them being a victim to their own brethren.

Easier to shift blame I guess, similar to feminism on how they blame men shoving women aside preventing their "growth" despite countless succesful women throughout history and daily life.

You think the women who worked their *sses off making $70k+ a year complains about "inequality?"

Probably not.

Same with a black person who makes $70k a year as well. You think they're going to complain about being victimized? Probably not.

 

[Von]

Aristotle circle of association.... the further its from you the less you care.....

Medias want to sell.... so they go with the contraversy, the sensation.. they have an agenda too (in politics they don't cover Bernie Sanders)

What we see is contraversial for many reasons and it happens alot and the USA has a huge issue of it.... but notice it always happens in the same areas. If you can prove it was unwrongful killing that it is, sensational... thus make money.

Joseph Stalin, leader of the Soviet Union once said: ''killing 1 person is a tragedy, killing 1000 is just statistic''.

The police officer is clearly doing something wrong, in an area, where any wrong doing could be a norm... its a black poor neighbourhood (where black is the face of crime), they all armed because its a US right, the police is badly in shape or trained, they stress etc....

In the US violence seems to be normalized and its one of the most violent society in the world. So statistics of death happens all the time and if you see it happens in ''modern cool place'' ... they will just say ''we in the city what you expect'' . You need a face to make it a sensation, its human behaviour.

You have a face, you have an emotional attachment to the place, you have an area that it happens regularly but now you have the video... it will sell.

The people who complains about unrightful killing in 90% of the case, they won't complain if it happens somewhere they don't live

 

[BeExcellent]

Tenacity I feel exactly as you do. Your first point about the black community is an inconvenient fact to those who hold power in the national narrative. Solving that problem means requiring responsibility and accountability from people who have become accustomed to subsidies and whose subculture now has a sense of entitlement which is fed by the elites.

But people vote in support of the subsidies which in turn support thug culture and the people they vote for prefer to hold power rather than actually solve the root cause because to solve the problem would lessen the vote from the black community as a segment of America, and lessen their power.

I hold and have always held the view that indignant leaders who rally the black community are disingenuous. They depend on the dysfunctional black community for power and therefore have no real motivation to change it. Situations like recent events keep these disingenuous leaders relevant spouting their indignation, but solves nothing.

I deeply respect members of the black community, @Tenacity among them, who recognize the ACTUAL problem. There are more & more people like Tenacity out there & I hope that real substantive change can occur, but current disingenuous leadership will stiffly oppose people with Tenacity's viewpoint because that is a real threat to their power.

If you want to see how accepting subsidies turns out after 100 years look at the Native American community. The results are horrible but many people become complacent and lazy and actively seek subsidies to continue rather than change because change means effort (even though it also means better self esteem, success, and self reliance).

The bad cop problem is there as well and is a symptom to a degree of the larger issue but this is much easier to point at and sensationalize than the black community problem.

Both these cops should be tried for murder.

I actually saw a pretty in depth analysis of these two incidents on ESPN several days ago. There were a white woman & a black man (presumably an ex pro athlete - I didn't recognize him but I missed his name) discussing racially based fear and how it manifests itself in a preprogrammed way in very high stress critical situations. In other words how generalizations about individual people become extrapolated from factual statistics that are true for the group.

Translation: the fear of the person who has the characteristics of the group plays a role in the interaction.

So the cops here were clearly wrong but thug culture and the high propensity for crime statistically speaking within the black community as a whole are factors. Current leadership refuses to publicize or acknowledge the problems which factually exist in the black community, but I think what we are seeing is a symptom of a problem that is deep, growing out of welfare/thug culture and eventually cannot be denied away.

My comments are as a white woman who has professional black friends and business associates and I also have any number of black tenants at any given time. My HUD properties are 100% black at the moment (because that is who has most of the vouchers) and because I have a fair business reputation those HUD tenants have referred me other black tenants who work, raise children & are not subsidized who live in some of my other units.

We know each other as individuals, and I for one don't assign prejudices to individuals, but when you see slanted statistics that characterize a group in a certain way it absolutely can color the way two individuals who do not know each other interact. The interaction comes out of the bias which is pre-established rather than the actual individuals' presentation. It is subconscious to a degree.

What group runs into black crimes more than any other? Law enforcement. It should not surprise anyone that the law enforcement community and the black community are wary of one another.

The root causes must be resolved or we will see more of the same.

 

[Asmodeus]

Our decadent elites WANT these racial divisions.

Yes... And this has been used as a tool by tyrants in the pasts to keep the people weak. When unified, people can be strong... When divided however they are far easier to control. I have personally had my own family tell me all the stories of their experiences during the USSR and how the government literally promoted propaganda to divide people into different ethinc groups who literally hated each other.

 

[Von]

Yes... And this has been used as a tool by tyrants in the pasts to keep the people weak. When unified, people can be strong... When divided however they are far easier to control. I have personally had my own family tell me all the stories of their experiences during the USSR and how the government literally promoted propaganda to divide people into different ethinc groups who literally hated each other.

I'll do my SJW.

Imagine when these groups in the USA society calls upon the 2nd Amendement or right to bear arms.

To : Chase, Protect, Defend

Black vs tyranny
Tyranny vs instutions


White vs extremists


It will be a blood bath.

 

[GS750]

BeExcellent...I agree with a lot of what you said here. But how can you say that "Both these cops should be tried for murder". Were you there? Did you see what transpired before the video was shot? Are you an attorney? An expert on police training and procedure? My prediction...the officers in the Sterling case will be exonerated. But that's what I predict from what I've seen so far on the videos. The Castile case we don't know what happened before the video clicked on. There may be more evidence that has yet to be released like a body cam or dash cam video. Why not wait to see all of the available facts and evidence before you put the officers on trial for murder? You could be right...but you could be wrong too.

 

[Prime_Beef]

tenacity
Find many of your posts interesting. I'll take a stab at it, my background is white, former Army officer, combat vet and educator in South Central LA.
1. I agree with some black culture issues you stated. Having been in the Army and seen many fine professional blacks, I was appalled when I saw what went down in LA. I saw many instances of police over reaction and aggression, transient parents, teachers, cops. Almost anyone in a governmental capacity was new or transient, or transferred there for poor performance. ..cops, probation officers, teachers, administrators, social workers, county nurses, doctors at the county..

Appeared two classes of black females, lower, who were addicted to the thug culture, parties, drugs, had kids from losers, had losers names tattooed across chest, other. Many were rude, entitled, and if they didn't get what they wanted and the official was white, claim was racism. If the official was black, they weren't black enough, they uncle Tom, otherwise not down with it or hatin'. Many were 2-4th generation gangster. These women made very careless decisions ..consequences weren't real to them. Their aggressive kids are the primary victims of other blacks and police. They don't have good sense of when to stop.

Second type- middle class or first in their family with a degree. These were teachers, police officers, many govt jobs. Willing to do what had to be done and got out.many single parents also, but a sense of resignation that the system is a scam, but do their damnest for their kids. Rarely were these kids in trouble. When they were they knew how to act.

2. Cops..I travel a lot by RV. I recently witnessed a 5 yr old kid touch something on his father's trailer. I was in a heavy coal producing area, father was a miner, blue collar type. He yelled at the boy "..you break my ****, I'll break your face..again!" kid panicked. I told him that's inappropriate, but beyond scope of my point. Which is, lower class whites brutally raise other lower class whites. .who believe assertion required violence to back it up. I remembered many such people applying to law enforcement jobs while in the Army and asking for my recommendation. Many don't know blacks personally but see enough negatively that they will take whatever precautions their machismo dictates.

3. Lots of politicians and press misrepresentation of facts for political reasons. Consider:
-Mike Brown case - he just robbed a store. His friend claimed he was shot in the back for no reason. Weeks later the autopsy reports show a completely different story, he struggled for the officer's gun in the police car, was shot in the hand, some witnesses said he charged back after being shot in the hand for more. Facts were not out before the riots began.
- Gray case-Baltimore..riots started, but the evidence and exonoration of officers has occured. A black prosecution of many black cops was unsuccessful, and a witness in back of that van said Gray was bouncing around. No one waited for answers.

In the two most recent cases evidence is starting to leak that the Louisiana victim pulled a gun on a homeless man just before his death, so police were on a lookout, appears video showing him on his back pulling a gun. In Minnesota, the victim matched a description of a robber from a couple days before. We simply don't have the facts and cooler heads should prevail.

Now, why do you suppose that's useful to some politicians?

 

[BeExcellent]

Tried is not convicted. A grand jury will review facts and decide whether the facts merit charging these two cops in their respective cases. Neither would appear to be capital murder but second degree murder or manslaughter I would expect likely, but the facts are going to determine all that. Due process will take its course and that is as it should be.

I'm not an attorney myself. Both my parents are and other family members too. I grew up regularly hearing legal discussions of all sorts over dinner etc., so I am more familiar with the legal system than the average person.

@PrimeBeef is correct that people get wound up before the facts are out. My statement should be understood to assume the facts warrant trial. If they don't, they shouldn't.

There are interesting studies out regarding deadly force and the psychology of stress officers are under in extreme circumstances.

Malcolm Gladwell discusses just such a case in his book "Blink", which is the same sort of case. It's sad but worth a read.

Having said all that I strongly agree with Tenacity that this is a serious cultural problem, and I agree with PrimeBeef about low socioeconomic whites and their bias too.

It's a complex and multifaceted problem. These cases are a symptom of much harder issues to resolve.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Media will only refer to the Baton Rouge guy as "beloved father of five." What they leave out is that he was a career criminal, ex-con, and registered sex offender. Here's a pic of him doing some fine parenting:

 

[Tenacity]

Great points guys, I wanted to add more to this discussion. I believe we are no longer in a Race War, but a Class War. It's the Haves and the Have Nots, with the Haves getting all of the benefits that are left of the "American Dream" while those in the Have Not category are struggling now and will continue to struggle going forward in relation to jobs, economics, resources, as well as proper policing.

In relation to Castile's shooting, Gov. Dayton of Minnesota said if he were "white" then he would not have gotten shot. The correct statement should have been that if: Castile were MIDDLE or HIGHER class, lived in a Suburb, and "looked like" some sort of "professional" black or white man, then he would not have gotten shot.

I wonder what universe does Gov. Dayton live in, by thinking that black people are the only ones being gunned down by poorly trained cops? Gov. Dayton is a damn idiot:

- In 2015, there were 1,146 people killed by cops, over 500 were white, over 300 were blacks, about 200 where hispanic/latino, over 60 were another type of race such as Asian, etc. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...un/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

- So far in 2016, 279 whites have been killed by cops and 137 black, with a total of 569 once you bring in all races. http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...un/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

Now, I'm not saying all of these killings were unjustified. But the ones that were "questionable" and "debatable", predominately happened to people from the "Have Nots" pile who are living in lower class or working class areas, where they are MORE THAN LIKELY to have cops that are poorly trained, scared of the people they are policing, and most likely underpaid considering the higher levels of violence they have to police. The dishonest, fvcked up, ratings seeking media loves to paint us against each other based on race, but the reality is that we are no longer in 1956, this is 2016.

IF you are in the HAVE NOT pile, my advice to you is do whatever the hell you can to get your finances together and MOVE to a suburb area or an area that's universally known as a "good middle class and higher" area. Even if you have to take out debt to afford it!

If not......you, your children, your family, etc., can be the next victim of a poorly trained police officer. Doesn't matter if you are white, black, asian, latino, hispanic, native american, or an "other", poorly trained cops are killing people across the BOARD. This, in addition to potentially being a victim of a "thug culture" gang banging idiot who is also trigger happy or "crime happy".

Going forward, only the HAVES will experience the American dream of good jobs, investments, economics, resources, living where there's low crime, and PROPER POLICING. The Have Nots....well....they are about to be completely fvcked up (matter of fact, they already are).

 

[TheVirtualMind]

Tenacity, you brought a good point about how no one seems to care about the homicides in Chicago, Baltimore, and other areas, as long as police aren't involved. But as soon as something involves a cop, people who you never see on Facebook are suddenly popping up as "experts."

As far as both cases go, right now, I am withholding any opinion until there is more evidence. Not because I am supporting the officers in the case right off the bat just because I am an officer, but because I remember how things went the past times (Fergueson, as Prime_Beef pointed out, Baltimore, the other shooting in Minnesota recently, ect.) Now, there have been, and still are, bad cops out there. Just like there are good and bad in everything.

My biggest issue I have right now is that a ton of people are quick to say "why don't the good cops rat out the bad cops?" Sometimes it is not that easy. Do you know how often officers actually see each other? I may see you for 5-10 minutes in roll call before shift, and maybe 5-10 minutes after. If you aren't in my sector or area, I may not see you all shift. How should I know what you are doing? I may see you even less if we have take home cars and go in service from our house. At that point, I may see you once every 6 months during in service training, if that. Also, why don't the good people in the communities rat on the bad ones? Everyone wants things cleaned up (police, communities, government) but no one wants to be a whistle blower.

One more thing, a lot of people say "man, you need to see things through the eyes of a black person!" Great. People also need to see things through the eyes of a white cop. As one in an urban area, I have been spit at, had stuff thrown at me, called every racist name in the book (and some that should be making it in the next edition), fought with, ran from, driven towards, and challenged, just for being a white officer at a scene, or just for walking around. Also, as far as "poorly trained police" go...I can't speak for all, but I went through 7 months of the "initial" training and have had training a few times a year since I joined. I've probably forgotten more stuff than I care to count. If you saw the amount of books we get to study and learn from, along with new "updates" every week that always seems to contradict something (and that never seems to come until 2 months after it was "approved" and we had no idea about), and then getting to have 24 hour coverage of events that occurred in another portion of the country and is going to cause people here, who don't even know WHAT happened, only that SOMETHING happened, to lose their minds and cause everything to go into overdrive...

*WHEW*

I wish everyone could go through the "use of force" and "shoot/don't shoot" training scenarios and see things from both sides. I've seen so many people say "shoot them in the hand" or "shoot them in the leg." Please...Go to a gun range, set up a target from 15 feet after tracing your hand or arm on the target, and attempt to shoot it. Then drop and do 20 pushups, have the lights get dimmed, have some loud sounds going, and then try and hit the same target.

Though Tenacity, you may be on to something, as far as moving to the middle of nowhere. Seems like the safest place for people right now.

 

[Tenacity]

Great info guys. Honestly, if I were a cop right now....I would QUIT and find another line of work. Let's see how the inner cities which are over-ran by violence, crime, thuggery, etc., let's see how the citizens in that community POLICE the criminals then. I mean you can't even say their "tax dollars" are funding the police because a significant chunk of the people there are living off of the government system anyway.

Why in the hell does anybody want to be a Policeman? You are assigned to police out of control people, from an out of control area, who don't take personal responsibility for ANY FVCKING THING. Why sign up for that shyt? Yes, I believe a lot of these cops are poorly trained, over-police, and are scared of the people they are policing. Which is why I ask the question, why sign up for the job?

When it gets "too hard" to be a police officer and you have a shortage of cops, what you are going to see is Ray Ray, Pookie, and the rest of the thugs in the inner city tear that motafvcker down. Black Lives Matter might actually turn into ALL Black Lives Matter at that point, because right now Black Lives Matter is pretty much "Black Lives Matter ONLY WHEN A WHITE PERSON takes it." They don't say shyt about the black lives taken by Ray Ray, Pookie, and the rest of the thugs other than discussing how most crime occurs within the races....which is TRUE, but damn it you are the ones running around talking about Black Lives Matter, so why the fvck do you cherry pick WHICH BLACK LIVES matter instead of being outraged at ALL black lives taken unjustifiably?

So if I were a cop, I would walk the fvck off the job and find something else to do. Fvck it. Let the black community POLICE the thugs and criminals.

 

[Skyline]

Great info guys. Honestly, if I were a cop right now....I would QUIT and find another line of work. Let's see how the inner cities which are over-ran by violence, crime, thuggery, etc., let's see how the citizens in that community POLICE the criminals then. I mean you can't even say their "tax dollars" are funding the police because a significant chunk of the people there are living off of the government system anyway.

Why in the hell does anybody want to be a Policeman? You are assigned to police out of control people, from an out of control area, who don't take personal responsibility for ANY FVCKING THING. Why sign up for that shyt? Yes, I believe a lot of these cops are poorly trained, over-police, and are scared of the people they are policing. Which is why I ask the question, why sign up for the job?

When it gets "too hard" to be a police officer and you have a shortage of cops, what you are going to see is Ray Ray, Pookie, and the rest of the thugs in the inner city tear that motafvcker down. Black Lives Matter might actually turn into ALL Black Lives Matter at that point, because right now Black Lives Matter is pretty much "Black Lives Matter ONLY WHEN A WHITE PERSON takes it." They don't say shyt about the black lives taken by Ray Ray, Pookie, and the rest of the thugs other than discussing how most crime occurs within the races....which is TRUE, but damn it you are the ones running around talking about Black Lives Matter, so why the fvck do you cherry pick WHICH BLACK LIVES matter instead of being outraged at ALL black lives taken unjustifiably?

So if I were a cop, I would walk the fvck off the job and find something else to do. Fvck it. Let the black community POLICE the thugs and criminals.

I'm actually in the process of becoming an officer soon and eventually branch out as an attorney since officers get a lot of court room experience.

These recent officer shootings and stigmas that have appeared aren't deterring me the slightest. My reason is because I get to travel and get to know who is in and what happens in my neighborhood.

Putting on that uniform is going to paint either a massive target for me or be a beacon for help. I'm actually FOR the officers wearing body cameras because it helps us learn what happened in the events that were not recorded. It also helps with paperwork and the officer can use that video in court against the suspect.

The whole propaganda of body cameras to monitor an officers behavior is just going to make due process smoother of a conviction.

I wouldn't say cops are poorly trained either. They're trained in a way that allows them to react to a situation based of certain actions a suspect takes. Firing their gun is last on the list, tazers and tackles are second to last.

Over policing is the result of controlling high crime rate areas. This has been a tactic used since the Robert Peele era.

Can always just be a cop in a middle-upper class area as well.

@KingofPuss the suspect definitely had a firearm in his right pocket. The cops were called because he had threatened somebody who walked up to him by flashing his gun at him.

Those two cops went in knowing he was armed and possibly dangerous- since he had threatened somebody with it.

From my point of view, when he was being pinned down the officer on top seemed to have been focusing on his right arm. Moments later you hear the officer saying 'he's reaching for a gun.'

The second officer draws his weapons, pointing it at his chest, and seconds later he fires. They then both get off of him and the first officer, who said he was reaching for a gun, goes back and pulls out a gun from his right pocket.

It's unlikely the officer knew the weapon was in that pocket, his pants aren't exactly skinny, unless he had seen it at some point.

Then the question rises about why he was tazed and then tackeled in the first place. Was he drawing his gun out? We don't know because the person recording didn't record the whole encounter.

 

[Michael E]

I haven't seen any threads on this here, what do you guys think about this? My theory (I believe I mentioned it before) is still the same and it's that we have a two-sided problem.

- Out Of Control Black Community: We can debate on both sides on how it got this way, where the left side/EyeBRollin/Jaylan would say it's due to the bad history of slavery/Jim Crow that blacks have had in this country, and those on the right will say it's all thug culture....the bottom line is that the black community in the inner cities are out of control with violence, drug activity, broken families, etc.

- Bad Police Officers: You have people policing the out of control black community that are either poorly trained, or flat out afraid of the people in the area....and end up OVER-POLICING them which in some cases results in death when death didn't have to be the option.

The solution is for Black America to embrace group economics. There's $1.1 trillion in spending power that flows through Black America annually, but a dollar stays black for less than 6 hours. We don't support black businesses, we don't build black businesses, etc.

When I say WE, I'm talking about us fellow BLACK PEOPLE. We need to build up our own shyt, establish a strong collective tax and political base.....this gives us power. So if we have a predominate black area the police should LOOK like the people they are policing number one, then number two, if they continue to OVER-POLICE then we take our resources, tax dollars, etc., and move the fvck out of the area. Can't do that when you are living off "the government system", the same government system that you march/protest saying is killing you.

Black on black crime is a far worse problem than the police shootings, but 1 WRONGFUL police shooting is bad enough. But you will not have those wrongful shootings stop until a tax/political/economic base is established for Black America nationwide. Right now, black people don't own shyt, control shyt, build shyt, nor even take responsibility for their own piss poor choices. As a result, we will remain powerless as a COMMUNITY and keep praying to "God" (like Castile's girlfriend was on the video) all the while not having the true muscle to fight back.

Wrong on both. Yawn you want to cause issues when there isn't.

 

[Michael E]

tenacity
Find many of your posts interesting. I'll take a stab at it, my background is white, former Army officer, combat vet and educator in South Central LA.
1. I agree with some black culture issues you stated. Having been in the Army and seen many fine professional blacks, I was appalled when I saw what went down in LA. I saw many instances of police over reaction and aggression, transient parents, teachers, cops. Almost anyone in a governmental capacity was new or transient, or transferred there for poor performance. ..cops, probation officers, teachers, administrators, social workers, county nurses, doctors at the county..

Appeared two classes of black females, lower, who were addicted to the thug culture, parties, drugs, had kids from losers, had losers names tattooed across chest, other. Many were rude, entitled, and if they didn't get what they wanted and the official was white, claim was racism. If the official was black, they weren't black enough, they uncle Tom, otherwise not down with it or hatin'. Many were 2-4th generation gangster. These women made very careless decisions ..consequences weren't real to them. Their aggressive kids are the primary victims of other blacks and police. They don't have good sense of when to stop.

Second type- middle class or first in their family with a degree. These were teachers, police officers, many govt jobs. Willing to do what had to be done and got out.many single parents also, but a sense of resignation that the system is a scam, but do their damnest for their kids. Rarely were these kids in trouble. When they were they knew how to act.

2. Cops..I travel a lot by RV. I recently witnessed a 5 yr old kid touch something on his father's trailer. I was in a heavy coal producing area, father was a miner, blue collar type. He yelled at the boy "..you break my ****, I'll break your face..again!" kid panicked. I told him that's inappropriate, but beyond scope of my point. Which is, lower class whites brutally raise other lower class whites. .who believe assertion required violence to back it up. I remembered many such people applying to law enforcement jobs while in the Army and asking for my recommendation. Many don't know blacks personally but see enough negatively that they will take whatever precautions their machismo dictates.

3. Lots of politicians and press misrepresentation of facts for political reasons. Consider:
-Mike Brown case - he just robbed a store. His friend claimed he was shot in the back for no reason. Weeks later the autopsy reports show a completely different story, he struggled for the officer's gun in the police car, was shot in the hand, some witnesses said he charged back after being shot in the hand for more. Facts were not out before the riots began.
- Gray case-Baltimore..riots started, but the evidence and exonoration of officers has occured. A black prosecution of many black cops was unsuccessful, and a witness in back of that van said Gray was bouncing around. No one waited for answers.

In the two most recent cases evidence is starting to leak that the Louisiana victim pulled a gun on a homeless man just before his death, so police were on a lookout, appears video showing him on his back pulling a gun. In Minnesota, the victim matched a description of a robber from a couple days before. We simply don't have the facts and cooler heads should prevail.

Now, why do you suppose that's useful to some politicians?

Ban all guns

 

[GS750]

@Tenacity there is an issue with cities, big and small, finding people who are qualified who want to be police officers. In the 10 or so years that I have been a cop I have seen good people come and go. Some guys (and girls) come into this line of work with a much different expectation. After a few years they find something else to do. These are cops who generally are good people with good intentions who want to make a difference, but they quickly become aware that police work is nothing like they expected. I have also seen many officers who's careers have ended because of something they did, on or off duty, that got them fired. These are people who eventually their misdeeds caught up with them and their municipality did away with them. As for myself. I have no intention of walking away from my career, no matter how bad it gets out there. I knew the job was dangerous when I took it, so to speak. I don't work in the inner city, but the area where I work has had its share of police involved shootings. The bottom line for me is that I've got fellow officers who rely on me, and I rely on them. I still enjoy my job and I'm not going to walk away from it.

I'll elaborate a bit on how I see this Sterling case panning out. From what I've read about this man he has quite a lengthy criminal history including felony drug possession, firearms charges, battery, resisting arrest, and apparently he's a sex offender too. A far cry from what some have described to the media as a "good family man". Allegedly he was carrying a firearm illegally at the time that the officers encountered him and had at least shown it to one person. So the officers were responding to a call involving an armed person. As far as I know the 911 tape hasn't been released yet but the report is that he showed it to a homeless person who was bothering him, in an effort to get the guy to leave him alone. As far as I know the videos begin with he and the officers in a physical altercation, What we don't see is what lead up to that physical altercation. We also don't know if either of these officers have encountered Mr. Sterling in the past or knew his criminal history. But let's assume for a second that they do know that he is armed. The idea is to get control of that gun as quickly as possible. Remember that hands kill. The gun isn't going to fire on it's own. So a physical fight ensues, and this is a guy who is tall and over 300 lbs. Getting him under control isn't going to be easy. From what I can see from the video, and as Skyline pointed out, you can see one of the officers trying to get control of his hand. I wasn't there and there isn't a video of the initial encounter with Mr. Sterling. But if those officers knew for a fact that he had a gun on him, by him resisting and then putting his hand anywhere near his pocket or waist, he's really at risk of being shot by them. Then you can clearly see in the video an officer recover a gun from his pocket. So Mr. Sterling was in fact armed with a handgun all along. This is why I stated above that, in my opinion, the officers will be exonerated based on what I've seen. But we don't know all the facts. Officers are entitled to Due Process just like anyone else. So jumping to conclusions before all the facts are available in either one of these cases is foolish in my opinion.

 

[Tenacity]

Ban all guns

That wouldn't make any sense, all you would be doing is causing law-abiding citizens to lose their right to protect themselves. Banning guns isn't going to keep Ray Ray and Pookie (thugs) from getting them, as they can care less about "gun laws", they will carry one illegally.

I wouldn't say cops are poorly trained either. They're trained in a way that allows them to react to a situation based of certain actions a suspect takes. Firing their gun is last on the list, tazers and tackles are second to last.

Over policing is the result of controlling high crime rate areas. This has been a tactic used since the Robert Peele era.

@KingofPuss the suspect definitely had a firearm in his right pocket. The cops were called because he had threatened somebody who walked up to him by flashing his gun at him.

Those two cops went in knowing he was armed and possibly dangerous- since he had threatened somebody with it.

I'll elaborate a bit on how I see this Sterling case panning out. From what I've read about this man he has quite a lengthy criminal history including felony drug possession, firearms charges, battery, resisting arrest, and apparently he's a sex offender too. A far cry from what some have described to the media as a "good family man". Allegedly he was carrying a firearm illegally at the time that the officers encountered him and had at least shown it to one person. So the officers were responding to a call involving an armed person.

I completely understand what both of you guys (who are experienced in relation to law enforcement) are saying and the piss poor choices of people within these inner cities are things I call out regularly.

But as you guys know, I don't see this is a one-sided problem. There has GOT to be other ways to police these high crime areas other than coming in, over-policing, and pulling out guns. There has got to be another way.

There are surely times when a gun needs to be pulled out, but I just don't see it in the Sterling nor Castile cases YET....but like you both said and I agree....I'm not rushing to judgment here and we need to allow ALL of the facts of the case to come out.

But from my research on this issue, cops have ROUTINELY jumped "the gun" (no pun intended) to pull their gun out and start fvcking shooting when either the situation didn't call for it, or they could have used other means....all because they are fvcking afraid of the people they are policing.

Perfect example is Officer Groubert and Levar Jones from about two years ago. The Officer did get served with a sentence where he could face up to 20 years in prison I believe, but this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The Officer clearly is over-policing, is clearly scared of the "type" of person he's policing, and has no business in the damn police force. Understand, one of those bullets could have easily hit Jones in the chest and killed him or hit him somewhere to paralyze him for life. All for LITERALLY....nothing.

 

[Michael E]

That wouldn't make any sense, all you would be doing is causing law-abiding citizens to lose their right to protect themselves. Banning guns isn't going to keep Ray Ray and Pookie (thugs) from getting them, as they can care less about "gun laws", they will carry one illegally.








I completely understand what both of you guys (who are experienced in relation to law enforcement) are saying and the piss poor choices of people within these inner cities are things I call out regularly.

But as you guys know, I don't see this is a one-sided problem. There has GOT to be other ways to police these high crime areas other than coming in, over-policing, and pulling out guns. There has got to be another way.

There are surely times when a gun needs to be pulled out, but I just don't see it in the Sterling nor Castile cases YET....but like you both said and I agree....I'm not rushing to judgment here and we need to allow ALL of the facts of the case to come out.

But from my research on this issue, cops have ROUTINELY jumped "the gun" (no pun intended) to pull their gun out and start fvcking shooting when either the situation didn't call for it, or they could have used other means....all because they are fvcking afraid of the people they are policing.

Perfect example is Officer Groubert and Levar Jones from about two years ago. The Officer did get served with a sentence where he could face up to 20 years in prison I believe, but this is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. The Officer clearly is over-policing, is clearly scared of the "type" of person he's policing, and has no business in the damn police force. Understand, one of those bullets could have easily hit Jones in the chest and killed him or hit him somewhere to paralyze him for life. All for LITERALLY....nothing.

Yeah it will, idiot. If all guns are banned, nobody will have a gun, stupid.