Alphas

[Fruitbat]

I've studied psychology a fair bit recently, having a relative sadly with a personality disorder (borderline).

I've come to the conclusion that much of what we refer to as alpha behaviour is actually psychopathy, or narcissism.

I have had several narcicistic friends who did far better than me. It's like dynamite to women. the sneaky person who screwed over his work mate, the bodybuilder who cares only about his self image.

Other men have a serious interest in higher things - philosophy, art, bettering the world. I'm not laying claim to this but these guys don't seem to do as well.

It's a total shame as the entire world is messed up by tinpot dictators and liars - self interested men who do absolutely no good to anyone unless it benefits him.

In times gone by, this was probably an attractive trait, when food is scarce or what have you. But actually most men would fight and dude for their survival, yet total *******s who cheat and lie and manipulate get lots of *****.

I feel that this is justified by these individuals by the old "well, if you don't screw over someone, they will do it to you" or "it's the way of the world"

I have no idea as a specieies why biology would lend its favour to men who actively destroy creativity and the general advancement of humanity. There are a few I would consider alpha who are good men, but women don't look that far, they look for the dark elements - the bully, the con artist, the liar, the cheating politician.

It's like everything I hate in humanity is sexual dynamite to a woman's libidos.

I remember being a young man and being a bully to someone who attempted to steal our taxi. I let this guy have it and my girl at the time was begging me to stop. Afterwards. She gave me everything sexually, it was like a magic switch.

WE are accused of being the bad guys because we fight etc, but actually we just like good genetics. Can you imagine having a sexual drive which drives you to absolute bitches who victimise and bully other women? How ****ed up is that?


Women and their sexual tastes are the cause of the worlds evils.

I strongly believe in a sense of morality and it seems that this totally just belief isn't helping me get *****.


Perhaps I should get into defrauding pensioners? It's a wicked world we live in, where all the things you were brought up to believe in prevent you from getting *****, while the truly ignorant and selfish win.

So, am I to now change my beliefs to belive that the right view is selfishness, and cowardice, and vanity? It seems to get women hot.

Its like the worst people, with the worst self control of self analysis get all the joy - and seeing is that is which gives me genes a chance for survival, am k believing bulk****? Is the correct way actually to be selfish and a bully? I am sure some narcissists will reframe it another way, as do women, but it is what it is.

How will I go to my grave with a clear conscience knowing I gave up the path of truth for personal gain?

All the confirmed psychopaths and narcicists I know get tons of *****, so perhaps it's time to put down morals and just **** over anyone, anyhow, as it's the matter of survival of wternal death?

Anyone been through this or understand?

 

[Billtx49]

It's a question of morality and being an honestly good person. Do you want to go to the grave with regrets over your previous actions, or die happy knowing you lived your life by your own principles and actions?
Not all Alphas are as you believe they are according to your post.
Some are just the criminal element of society, but not all.
Alpha is a mindset that defines their own personality. Some are bad, some are good, and some are the right mix between the two.
Be your own man and poon will come.

 

[Prime_Beef]

You can be a decent, but strong man..but to be "alpha" you need to be someone who gets sh*t done and recognized as such; someone comfortable with leading, directing others to achieve your goals and not taking cr*p willingly. Doesn't mean you need be an assh**e to people. You can be a successful business owner reputed to take care of his employees, people but clever and effective for example.

Being a nerd millionaire who made a fortune by himself working on the latest android app alone in your basement doesn't wet the panties the same way.. and why should it?

Remember,
Evolution. Basis for everything. Psychopathic behavior exists because it worked. It brought resources to the breeding partners with the trait. In caveman days people didn't live long. We are not that far out. If you lived to 20, 30 you didn't have time to become wise, and those who presented with confidence (whether based on history of correct action or merely presented) were deferred to because they led out of tough spots. We are still conditioned to defer to authority, observe it in those around you. We are also conditioned to step up and lead if needed. (Some) Psychopathy is an extreme trait of needed behavior. Without it there'd be no Roman Empire, some very major medical advancements, (some 19th century doctors repeated surgeries over and over until perfected, with little regard for the patient for example ) no Carnegie Steel, other major industries. Someone had to kick asses.

I will say a good, wise woman will recognize an alpha of integrity and dump one of the hedge fund pension ruiners when she figured it out. You don't really want to be with that kind of woman or have her raise your kids, do you?

 

[Once Bitten]

Quote: You can be a decent, but strong man..but to be "alpha" you need to be someone who gets sh*t done and recognized as such; someone comfortable with leading, directing others to achieve your goals and not taking cr*p willingly. Doesn't mean you need be an assh**e to people. You can be a successful business owner reputed to take care of his employees, people but clever and effective for example.

This is true for the guy who wants one woman in his life and manages to find good stock.

However, after what I've seen in the world of poon, Fruitbat has some good points. I've watched it happen to myself and many others far too long to ignore the fact that bad guys usually get the azz. They will run from a decent guy for the bad boy every time, especially in a crowd of other like-minded gals and guys. And seriously, how often does one run into decent folks nowadays? Maybe I've just had bad luck all my life, but every time I try to change the script there are bad guys on the fast track to take the victory. I just re-learned this valuable life lesson last week in the workplace. Azzholes with attitudes and so-called "wit" (I think there's a better name for it, but I don't know a good clean name for it. BS will do) most always win. I knew better than to stay and take a beating for nothing, so I bailed out. I know there's got to be something better somewhere. But it's tough to find good work or poon nowadays. Too many azzholes.

 

[Fruitbat]

Well, my path must be as an outcast of sigma male I guess,

What happens is in every group I am in, all the males are vying for the leader role. Some will take this further than others and will literally do anything, say anything to attain or maintain a dominant position. Now, I believe in largely peaceful co-existence and co-operation with other human beings, but as I say, the true narcicist or psychopath will never stop, will never meet you on equal terms.

Annoyingly, I haven't had the same practice in life as they have and I find that they can motivate the group better - playing off people against each other, often these people live their entire life for their position and status. Also, I find your genetics play a huge role.

I have had 3 friends who have gotten me slightly into "beatch mode". These are guys who I shared friendships with. I am the largest physically. However, from an aesthetic point of view, these males were better - stronger jaw, darker hair etc. Even being fair to myself, I am not facially conventionally good looking

What I found growing up in the presence of females was the same pattern repeating:

Friend would show confidence
I would show confidence.

Women would side with the guy they find more conventionally attractive, as do other males often.

I could never get the lead, despite knowing that actually I have far more going on in my brain than my "friends"

I can't help thinking you are born and not made. If you are a little goofy, or you have a slight stutter or anything genetically imperfect, you have a choice - to be a beta or just to dip out and live your own life. I've tried very hard to be a leader - great career, lots of talents and effort in myself, and I see dudes who are just good looking with very little else get all the pvssy. I get it too, don't get me wrong, but I have found it nearly impossible to attain alpha status or respect as I just am not picture post card perfect, and I am not a narcissistic bulky either who will go to extraordinary lengths. Plus, with these people, you will never dominate them or be equal, so if you have there guys in your social group, you have to just end up as a loner. The only place it gets to is a fight, and when these battles have come up with these types of men, invariably I have moved it to violence - and I won, every time, with all 3.

Publicly too. The group agreed I had a right to fight as they were attempting to belittle and bully me - but do I get leader status? Do women see me as a leader? No! Because of genetics, I think!

 

[GoodOne123]

I hear you, and you have some great points. But I believe the reason why these dark triad individuals get what they want is simply because they do whatever it takes to get it.

I think deliberately trying to show the world you are selfish, unempathetic, or cruel will get you nowhere. People will realise you are only a phony trying to pretend you are something other than yourself. You must truly possess these qualities and be a part of yourself for them to work.

The reason why these dark qualities work is because they allow you to go after and get what you want most efficiently! Think about it, if you only cared about yourself, didn't care what happens to anyone else, and have great manipulation skills, had an inflated sense of self confidence, wouldn't you literally have zero barriers to get what you want?

The common person has a multitude of barriers to get what they want. Lack of self belief, cares too much about what others think or feel, doesn't put themselves first, doesn't dare do the things society has programmed them to believe is bad. This person has a lot to overcome, and will therefore succseed less.

Dont get me wrong, it truly is a shame people like this get what they want. But we need to understand that these so called "good" and "bad" traits have been defined and programmed into us by society at an early age.

Now consider this, what if these bad traits have deliberately been shunned away as evil by the leaders of society in order to elicit a desired effect. That desired affect may be to ensure only small numbers of us keep and develop these bad qualities, and become succsessful and at the top. The majority of us will become obedient and docile which is ideal for any leader of society. The dark triad individuals, as you can imagine, can be a big threat to society leaders and their need to keep society in line.

People say you don't need any on these traits to become succsessful, but this isn't true. It's apparent that even the nicest of greatly successful people have a certain amount of narcissistic, manipulative, or psychopathic tendencies. Look at people like Michael Jordan, Muhammed Ali, they might seem nice and charming on the surface, but if you look closer and investigate their behaviours, there are dark triad traits. This doesn't make them bad overall, but the traits are still there.

Just consider this idea. What if bad, was not that bad at all? What if you were simply taught to think the way you are now, along with your morals in order to keep you in line?

 

[sharkbeat]

If you use women as your barometer to success, then that's the mindset you get. You will see your life disappointing.

I always use money as analogy to acquiring women. Lots of people want to be rich, yes? Can we agree on that. Ok good. Rich by definition is having a lot of money. If you want a lot of money, why don't you rob a bank? If your goal is to be rich, and rich is acquiring lots of money, then the shortest route to that goal is rob a bank. You should now architect your life to buy semiautos, wear masks, and just waltz into a bank and rob everybody.

If your answer to that life is "No, that's not the right way to acquire money", then let me ask you why. I thought the goal is to acquire money. Answer why you don't want to rob a bank to acquire money. You can cite dozens of reasons, the cops will chase you, jail etc etc. But you know it's not really a good way to do it.

Same with women. There are many paths to the same goal.

Yes, being narcissistic may get them wet. You can choose that route, but if you are not happy being narcissistic, then don't. Choose the life that you want, that you enjoy, and be ready to die for it even though life blows the other way.

Nature is fair, but people are not. You could be dedicating your entire life doing the right thing, doing what's fair and good, but you might still end up dying poor and dry just because people don't acknowledge you. There are plenty of those examples in life. I have a friend whose wife work in top music recording studio and her job is to identify potential bands that could hit it big. It's a soul-crushing job for her because she would sit through and listen to these talented folks but had to reject them because that's not what 'sells'.

 

[Fruitbat]

I hear you,
I think deliberately trying to show the world you are selfish, unempathetic, or cruel will get you nowhere. People will realise you are only a phony trying to pretend you are something other than yourself.
?

That's the truth - been there, done that and by god it doesn't work. It backfires.

The only real time I exhibit dark triad qualities is when I encounter dark triad individuals. I don't mind aggressive, if it's in your face. You either push on or back down.

What truly winds me up into almost paychopathic rage is the sneaky, devious type of dark triad - the charmer,
The liar, the cheat. I've fought people as I say over this and I truly believe they are the scum of the earth who need to be marginalised and exposed in any way possible.

We used to operate with honour codes - a lot of the world still do. Bravery and loyalty to a cause or good morals was esteemed. Now, observe our culture and the glorification of narcicistic traits in film and media.

I think all men need to pull together to expose and shun these individuals, but it's the fact that thee things turn on women which make me even angrier!

I start to hate them too, for not furthering the course of humanity - but they don't choose and I guess it's a hangover from the old lizard brain, lord knows I don't choose women soley on the basis of their character and there are some women I despise but I would also like to fvck - but this is because men are dominant sexually and dominating a woman you dislike is fine - women on he other hand want to bend over and be dominated by evil men.

Fair enough, it's the way of the world, but society should at least be honest and stop vilifying men for acting out this way when many would not if it wasn't the sure fire route to *****!

 

[Fruitbat]

Ps I had this discussion with a female friends and she said "you just don't understand - it's about confidence"

I don't find this woman attractive at all, but she is with an ex con who picks fights but otherwise is a total loser.

On the other hand, I speak to groups of 100s of individuals for a living, her BF would crumple into fear in this situation.

She would never pick a guy like me (even if I wanted her), which makes me think it's all bull****. Real confidence isn't really where it's at - drug addicted ex con alcoholics are not confident, they are the opposite - but they are violent. It's the violence they like, not confidence.

 

[zekko]

I could never get the lead, despite knowing that actually I have far more going on in my brain than my "friends"

You may have had more going on in your brain than your friends, but were you showing it? It's one thing to say "Hey, I'm smarter than they are", but are you making interesting conversation with the girls and being fun to be around? Are you talking about your interesting hobbies or inviting them to take part? If you have some skills did you demonstrate them? Girls can't read your mind and say "Wow, I can tell that underneath that boring exterior, that guy is really interesting". Maybe you're not like this at all - just something to think about.

I think the "Bad guy always gets the girl" cliché is one of the biggest bits of hogwash in the community. Sure, sometimes girls will go for the bad guy, those chicks are loser scum and you should be thankful you avoided their company. I've seen numerous types of guys get women. If you are fun, relaxed, cool, and have something going for you, they're not going to reject you just because you're not an a-hole. You don't want to walk around like a wimp though, the masculine attracts the feminine - and vice versa.

I agree the "confidence" thing is just talk. I laugh when I think about it. Do girls just stand around and watch a guy come in "Oh, I like him, he looks so confident. No wait, look at that guy over there! - He looks even more confident! No, that guy by the juke box, he's the most confident of them all (swoons)". Lol.
I mean I can see that you want to be relaxed and engaging when talking to someone, and not act like a nervous nelly. And you should go for what you want. But beyond that, I'm suspicious of all the weight women put on confidence.

 

[Once Bitten]

They like this because they are getting entertained. It seems to be an incredible ego boost to women to have guys in some sort of contest for them.
I've seen this first hand. It validates their self-worth and SMV. And these same women don't get mad at the girl for winning the prize, they get angry with their beta male because he's not putting on such an impressive show. It's quite juvenile, really.

Alpha male-lead couples may go off and argue behind closed doors when not putting on their show, but that's what they choose. It's their problem.

 

[GoodOne123]

It sounds to me you are frustrated that you are not exactly getting what you want out of life or women, and are getting angry that other people with "evil" traits are getting what you want.

Most likely these people arent that evil or horrible. They simply are putting themselves and their needs first, and go after them. This can appear selfish and at times have a disregard for others feelings. But guess what, it ****ing works.

Now if you know the way you are being now doesn't get the result you want, then you need to try to change the way you are. Not in a fake way, but actually becoming something other than what you are now.

Be selfish, care about yourself and your needs first and foremost, try it, experiment with it and see where it gets you. Stop worrying about trivial things like whether other people see you in a particular way, or if they might feel offended by your views or opinions. As long as you don't intentionally go out to hurt people, their feelings and opinions don't really matter and are their own problem. You matter first, so stop focusing on how other people are doing, what they're doing, what they think, and focus all on you. It's a giant weight of your shoulders and you feel better and are more productive with your goals.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

Instead of worrying whether you should be like this guy or that guy, how about just being a person you like. If other people are happy being asswipes, that's their problem. I would rather be a person that I like. If that means I get laid less, seems like a fair price. I have a friend who is pure alpha. What an ass. He cheats on his wife constantly, and will argue over anything. Yeah he gets laid more...do I want to be him? Hell no.

 

[zekko]

Most likely these people arent that evil or horrible. They simply are putting themselves and their needs first, and go after them. This can appear selfish and at times have a disregard for others feelings. But guess what, it ****ing works.

Totally agree here. These guys probably aren't all that evil, and you are probably not all that good. It's just that we are all the stars of our own narrative, and in our own little world we cast ourselves as the hero.

Who do you think first said "Nice guys finish last"? I guarantee you it was some schmuck who thought he was a good guy, but he saw someone else with more talent, ambition, and charisma going out and getting what he wanted. Was that guy really all that nice? Probably not, he was just viewing it from his perspective. It all just comes down to saying "Life isn't fair, someone else is getting what I want". I think the whole PUA world is based on this.

 

[sodbuster]

I actually score fairly high on the dark triad scores..... I've harnessed it, or it's been harnessed by my upbringing. I'm nice, polite, honest, etc. Actually had women tell me I'm a nice guy... BUT I don't really care what most people think of me. Try it sometime, it's freeing..... going after what you want without caring what anyone else thinks, WITHOUT screwing anyone over{my upbringing?}
Do I tend to hide it? damn straight, stark raving lunatic never get's ahead unless there is total societal collapse. Then being feared is better than being liked.....

 

[Steady Eddie]

You may have had more going on in your brain than your friends, but were you showing it? It's one thing to say "Hey, I'm smarter than they are", but are you making interesting conversation with the girls and being fun to be around? Are you talking about your interesting hobbies or inviting them to take part? If you have some skills did you demonstrate them? Girls can't read your mind and say "Wow, I can tell that underneath that boring exterior, that guy is really interesting". Maybe you're not like this at all - just something to think about.

I think the "Bad guy always gets the girl" cliché is one of the biggest bits of hogwash in the community. Sure, sometimes girls will go for the bad guy, those chicks are loser scum and you should be thankful you avoided their company. I've seen numerous types of guys get women. If you are fun, relaxed, cool, and have something going for you, they're not going to reject you just because you're not an a-hole. You don't want to walk around like a wimp though, the masculine attracts the feminine - and vice versa.

I agree the "confidence" thing is just talk. I laugh when I think about it. Do girls just stand around and watch a guy come in "Oh, I like him, he looks so confident. No wait, look at that guy over there! - He looks even more confident! No, that guy by the juke box, he's the most confident of them all (swoons)". Lol.
I mean I can see that you want to be relaxed and engaging when talking to someone, and not act like a nervous nelly. And you should go for what you want. But beyond that, I'm suspicious of all the weight women put on confidence.

The first paragraph I agree with, the other two I don't.
The bad guy is just another term for someone who has the "will to power".
Someone who will do whatever it takes to get what he wants. History is littered with these types. Usually as criminals or leaders. Men admire them and women fall for them.

Confidence shows others you have something going for you. Either externally (house, car, job) or internally (game, looks).
We shouldn't be dismissing confidence so readily, if at all. It's a key component, in having success with multiple women.

 

[daddymonsterpoodle]

I agree about the confidence. It takes confidence to be really sexual. It takes confidence to talk to women. It takes confidence to have an abundance mentality.
I am not rich, young or handsome but I have confidence and abundance mentality. I do all right.
A sense of humor helps a lot too.