Confidence

[zekko]

I realize this is an often discussed topic, but I was watching some video about how women love confidence. As I said before, this has been discussed to death. I cold write you a term paper on why women love confidence. But the truth is, in my gut, I will NEVER understand why it is such a big deal to them.

Confidence is great, but when you talk about true bravery, it takes a lot more courage to attempt something you are NOT confident at than to attempt something that you are confident about. That's true courage there.

I also doubt whether or not women are truly that attracted to confidence. For instance, many women respond to a man's swagger. But swagger suggest insecurity to me. If someone is truly confident, they are relaxed, calm, and matter of fact. They don't need swagger, swagger is overcompensating. If women like swagger that suggests to me they are not truly attracted to confidence, but something else.

But the real point of this post is that although I may logically understand, I will never really get it, never really understand why women find confidence such a big deal - or if they really do. I mean I know they find it attractive on some level, that's easy enough - but for it to be the big deal it's supposedly made into? Yeah, I'll never get it.

 

[HoneyHitter]

Contrary to popular believe and what women (want to) believe, I think most women only value confidence when it's indicative of a relatively higher SMV. They resent your confidence as soon as they perceive you to be less respected/popular than they initially assumed.

 

[ChrisFloyd]

It's about semantics.

 

[guru1000]

Think about it: A man who has swagger is going against the grain, against the status quo, against social constructs--acting the way HE wants to act, despite the criticism. That is confidence. Compare this with a man who succumbs to conformity or embraces the umbrella of social comfort. We could argue that either man has or lacks confidence, but it is the intention of the man that marks from which of the motivations he acts.

Wealthy men are more confident.
Good-looking men are more confident (toward women).
Confidence, it would seem, is a byproduct of wealth or good looks.

Accordingly, when you see a very unattractive man with extreme confidence, what is the first thought that enters your mind? He must be wealthy. Accordingly, the effect is often confuscated with the cause. But contrariwise, and ironically, an extremely confident man has a greater chance or propensity toward wealth.

Women, like men, will always act within their hypergamous nature to secure their highest value counterpart. Confidence is often a confused marker of this potential. Hence, why pickup artists with extreme confidence do well on the field, but fall short in LTRs.

 

[Augustus_McCrae]

It doesn't have to be swagger. They are also attracted to quiet confidence. The way a man holds himself. The way he walks (this is a big one). The way he holds his composure in a group. It represents competence, decisiveness and power.

-Augustus-

 

[zekko]

Think about it: A man who has swagger is going against the grain, against the status quo, against social constructs--acting the way HE wants to act, despite the criticism. That is confidence. Compare this with a man who succumbs to conformity or embraces the umbrella of social comfort. We could argue that either man has or lacks confidence, but it is the intention of the man that marks from which of the motivations he acts.

I tend to think that a guy who has swagger is putting it on, he is faking it. He wants to act like he has confidence, which means he doesn't really have it. If we are talking about intention, look at a guy who approaches a girl - if he does it nervously, chances are she won't be as attracted as if he does it in a relaxed, confident manner. Yet the guy's intention is the same, and he is acting on what he wants. I guess the nervousness betrays inexperience on his part.

As for wealth, some here say women aren't really attracted to wealth, at least not physically. I do believe they are attracted to success and status though.

Contrary to popular believe and what women (want to) believe, I think most women only value confidence when it's indicative of a relatively higher SMV. They resent your confidence as soon as they perceive you to be less respected/popular than they initially assumed.

You bring up an interesting point about popularity. Some people think women are mainly attracted to men who are socially popular. I've noticed that as I've gotten older, I've become less interested in socializing, in fact people tend to get on my nerves. Yet women still seem to be attracted to me, maybe more now than before. I think there is a place for the "strong, silent type". Maybe it has something to do with how comfortable you are in that role, and whether or not you have SMV or status in other ways (looks, success) that still gives you value.

 

[Alvafe]

I toss more confidence on knowledge, if you know something you will have confidence, its like a presentation, if you know well the subject you will talk with confidence, you know its like this, so there is no reason for you to fail.

a swagger (had to google it lol), could per see more the peacocking thing some people say, youa re stanting out of the crowd, plus normally this sh!t is hardly cheap, so maybe a woman who see a guy like that thinks he have resources, its the same with that videos, or play tests some people do, they show a ugly guy try to talk with the girl, who is looking poor, then the same guy show up in a really expensive car the girls all fall over him

and here is the thing for poularity too, it depend, being a really popular don't mean you will score girls, it can make it easier for the certain kind of woman, with normally is the kind I would never really date, shallow airheads, who think all men should fall for her and let her have a easy life.


that is what I think maybe is because i'm more thinking before acting, with save me some effort and time to solve things, with is why I belive is one of the 3 things belive is lacking on me to have a better score with woman.

well I wouldn't say it but maybe i'm on something or don't so, what I think is lacking on me is willing to take risks, desire and be less outcome dependend.

 

[BeExcellent]

Honestly I too could write an essay on this...I am going to try hard not to do so.

Confidence, real confidence, is a byproduct. It is a byproduct of something intrinsic to some characteristic or characteristics of that person. It also presents itself stylistically according to the person who exhibits it.

The characteristic may be looks, wealth, cleverness, competency, intelligence, salesmanship, emotional intelligence, authenticity, sexual prowess, body build, social status, analytical ability, leadership or any number of other traits and is the byproduct of the genuine internalization and ownership of said traits or combination of said traits.

This is why confidence appears differently depending on the person. You could have a gregarious personality person who owns his salesmanship, cleverness, social ability, and success and presents as a no give a sh1t extrovert...you could also have a reserved personality person who owns his analytical ability, intelligence, competency, sexuality and is quietly but knowingly introverted. Very different presentation but both confident people.

Confident people own who they are. They are comfortable in their own skin. They keep their own counsel and hold themselves in high esteem. They possess an internal knowledge of themselves and an authenticity. Authentic people are attractive people.

 

[Who Dares Win]

Confidence exists only when a man of high value posses it, when its an ugly short bald man to be confident he gets laughted and mocked most of the cases or considered creepy if he dares to consider himself worth of a having a chance.

Women dont like "confidence", they like a man of high value who behave as one, they would rather have a doubtful man of high value then a confident ugly short fat guy.

I would bet on a wealthy famous football player with self confidence issues due to being cheated rather than a mc donald cashier full of confidence.

 

[Yewki]

Confidence is great, but when you talk about true bravery, it takes a lot more courage to attempt something you are NOT confident at than to attempt something that you are confident about. That's true courage there.

Confidence permeates life much more than bravery. What I mean is bravery involves specific acts of courage. It's impressive, but it's an infrequent event by comparison. Confidence on the other hand is present in just about every form of interaction. Social prowess and charisma all stem from confidence.

So is it any surprise in general someone with high confidence is going to be more appealing than someone who is very brave? What are you going to do with the brave person? Listen to his stories of bravery over and over, then get bored? Confidence is much more tangible.

 

[ChrisFloyd]

Confidence exists only when a man of high value posses it, when its an ugly short bald man to be confident he gets laughted and mocked most of the cases or considered creepy if he dares to consider himself worth of a having a chance.

Women dont like "confidence", they like a man of high value who behave as one, they would rather have a doubtful man of high value then a confident ugly short fat guy.

I would bet on a wealthy famous football player with self confidence issues due to being cheated rather than a mc donald cashier full of confidence.

But it is not politically correct for them to admit that lol.

 

[zekko]

maybe a woman who see a guy like that thinks he have resources, its the same with that videos, or play tests some people do, they show a ugly guy try to talk with the girl, who is looking poor, then the same guy show up in a really expensive car the girls all fall over him

and here is the thing for poularity too, it depend, being a really popular don't mean you will score girls, it can make it easier for the certain kind of woman

Funny how resources and wealth keep coming up as being associated with confidence, considering how many guys here say women aren't really attracted by wealth, but rather a ripped body.

As for popularity, I definitely think being popular is an asset. I just don't think it's a necessity when it comes to attracting women.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Funny how resources and wealth keep coming up as being associated with confidence, considering how many guys here say women aren't really attracted by wealth, but rather a ripped body.

As for popularity, I definitely think being popular is an asset. I just don't think it's a necessity when it comes to attracting women.

So you have money, ripped body, and popularity. At that level of SMV they can even NOT like you and still want to get some.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I've noticed that the two genders are attracted to traits that they themselves do not posses. Women are by nature extremely insecure. Therefore, a confident man will be attractive as his masculine attributes are felt as "completing" her.

Just as we love women for their softness, their child-like ways, their comparative weakness, and every other thing that is the opposite of us, they love us for our strength, our confidence, our directness, our boldness etc. These are traits that they do no by nature posses.

Look at their magazines and TV. In the media they always crow, "I'm a confident, powerful woman". LOL, I always get a kick out of that. They have to say this precisely because they are NOT that at all. Imagine a confident man going around saying, "I'm a confident, powerful man". Cue the Twilight Zone music...

I think most significantly, confidence makes her feel safe and protected. To a woman, the world is a bit dangerous. Remember, years ago Daddy was perceived as all-confident.

 

[Alvafe]

Confidence exists only when a man of high value posses it, when its an ugly short bald man to be confident he gets laughted and mocked most of the cases or considered creepy if he dares to consider himself worth of a having a chance.

Women dont like "confidence", they like a man of high value who behave as one, they would rather have a doubtful man of high value then a confident ugly short fat guy.

I would bet on a wealthy famous football player with self confidence issues due to being cheated rather than a mc donald cashier full of confidence.

but at the same time a casheir full of confidence would more then likely put himself out there and try to hock with the woman, when the wealthy famous football player would not do so, even if you tell me the player wouldn't even have to worry because woman would just jump on his lap, he would not close the deal because of his lack of conficence, a guy without confidence is a guy who even question himself for why this woman would even like him? he question his own self value, and in both cases the cashier would feel good about himself for scoring and not caring for the fails, against the player who would only let his failures to take over,

its a struggle and i'm well aware of this

@zekko

the confidence being realted is not strange, he feels good about himself, he see himself as a good catch with a good job and work, he drives a nice car, he don't see why a girl would refuse him, he have everything so why question it?

 

[Huffman]

Lots of interesting points raised in here. Thanks for making this thread, zekko. This is really why I keep coming back to SoSuave.

 

[zekko]

I've noticed that the two genders are attracted to traits that they themselves do not posses.

Yeah, I definitely see confidence as a masculine trait. I have to laugh when I think about feminists reading your claim that women do not possess strength, confidence, or boldness by nature. I bet they wouldn't like it lol.

I've seen many women claim that be it for a man or a woman, confidence is sexy. I've even seen guys here say confidence in a woman is sexy. I tend to think confidence in a woman is not really sexy. When I think of confidence in a woman being sexy, it's a certain kind of confidence, a confidence in her sexuality, that can be attractive in certain situations. But even then, she's still got to have the goods - she still has to have the looks and the body, or her confidence counts for nothing.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I agree with everything you've said. They can be confident in their sexuality. But I've found that deep inside, every woman is a cauldron of conflicting emotions and insecurity. Hence their need for a complex social web. Without that web supporting them, they usually collapse emotionally.

"Confidence" outside of their sexuality comes from feeling the need to paint a veneer in order to gain credibility in male activities. This is similar to the artificial physical veneer on their faces. To a woman, all things are external.

This is why they have to walk around saying, "I'm a strong and confident woman, or, "I'm empowered". SMH. It all comes from the media.

 

[BeExcellent]

I must respectfully disagree with the assertion that a woman can only have confidence vis a vis her sexuality. That's silly. I am confident in many areas. I do not require "complex social networks" and I am just as at ease with or without make up, dressed up or dressed down, alone or with people, in NYC or in Podunk or anywhere. I often have to make substantive decisions for which I am fully accountable. I have become who I am and what I am as a result of my inner stability and groundedness. I exude natural confidence as a result in many situations. Men frequently remark how unusual and refreshing it is to be honest.

Additionally I've been told I have "presence" since I was a teen, more times than I can remember, and I still hear that.

Confidence I understand and know it can be learned. Presence is similar but more ephemeral. I have it, whatever it is according to others, which is cool but I don't worry too much about it. It's just an interesting observation I've heard for decades. Maybe it's innate somehow. I've no idea. It just IS.

So it's not as though the view noted above regarding women is untrue most of the time...I agree that for many, perhaps even most women that assertion is accurate. It is not when applied to me. I know other women (not many but some) to whom likewise this assertion would not apply.

Generalizations forget about outliers. ALL is always too broad a brush.

I also disagree that confidence in a man requires high SMV or great success. I have a crackerjack tradesperson who works for me some 10 years or so, is not attractive, is not wealthy; he lives modestly and day to day, but he exhibits confidence in who he is, what he does, and how he leads his life; he is fair, reasonable, and expects to be respected as a man.

And yes I respect him.

 

[zekko]

I must respectfully disagree with the assertion that a woman can only have confidence vis a vis her sexuality ...<snip>... Men frequently remark how unusual and refreshing it is to be honest..

We're speaking generally here. The fact that men remark that your confidence is unusual shows that is a relatively rare trait in women. Also, we're not saying that women cannot be confident in different areas, we're talking about confidence as it attracts the opposite sex. In some cases, a woman's confidence in her sexuality might be sexually appealing. Generally speaking, her confidence in the boardroom is not. It may be admirable, but it's not really a turn on.

I also disagree that confidence in a man requires high SMV or great success. I have a crackerjack tradesperson who works for me some 10 years or so, is not attractive, is not wealthy; he lives modestly and day to day, but he exhibits confidence in who he is, what he does, and how he leads his life; he is fair, reasonable, and expects to be respected as a man.

And yes I respect him.

Again, we're talking about confidence as it attracts the opposite sex. It's great that this guy is comfortable in his own skin. You respect him, but are you turned on by him? If so, are you saying you find his confidence appealing even though his SMV is low? Or is it possible his confidence, or comfort with himself and his lifestyle, actually raises his SMV?