side effects of hair loss treatments

[marmel75]

THE NOCEBO EFFECT

The role of nocebo effect in the causation of ED due to finasteride has been investigated (1). Nocebo effect refers to an adverse effect that results from the psychological awareness of the possibility of the side effects, but is not a direct result of the specific pharmacological action of the drug. In this study, the group informed about the sexual adverse effects of finasteride reported increased incidence of ED, when compared to the group without information (1). The side effects were completely reversible in 5 days when the medicine was discontinued, confirming that nocebo effect has an influence in causation of side effects and suggesting the role of psychological factors.

Two studies in 1998 and 1999 showed that the incidence of these side effects with finasteride therapy was generally comparable to that observed with the treatment with placebo (2,3),and there was no evidence of dose dependency or increased incidence with longer therapy out to 12 months. In addition, the side effects ceased in patients even when they continued to receive finasteride (and told they weren't).

A long term study showed that drug-related sexual side effects such as decreased libido, ED, and ejaculatory disorders occurred in <2% of men (4).These side-effects disappeared not only in all men who stopped the drug because of the side effects but also in most of those who continued therapy. The incidence of each side effect mentioned decreased to ≤0.3% by the fifth year of treatment with finasteride. The incidence of side effects were comparable to that of placebo both at one year and at 5 years.

The mind is indeed a powerful instrument and the creator of all processes. No causal relationships have been established in your cited studies (through my perusal) between finasteride and loss in brain function. I have zero sexual dysfunction, nor any compromise in focus, concentration, thinking. Danger attested to none as well. What about you, Ubercat; any Asian girls complaining about your lack of brain function or that they aren't being piped correctly?

But hey, if one starts Finasteride, and feels a side effect, then get off. Any manipulation of hormones, including DHT, IMO could throw something off. Any side effects, if any, would be related to the reducing of DHT by 80%+, not so much the finasteride. Nothing wrong with a bald head. But if one wants to keep their hair, they must engage before the hair loss, as a bald head will remain bald outside of FUE/FUT hair surgery.

REFERENCES

1. Mondaini N, Gontero P, Giubilei G, Lombardi G, Cai T, Gavazzi A, et al. Finasteride 5mg and sexual side effects: How many of these are related to a nocebo phenomenon? J Sex Med. 2007;4:1708–12. [PubMed]

2. Kaufman KD, Olsen EA, Whiting D, Savin R, DeVillez R, Bergfeld W. Finasteride in the treatment of men with androgenetic alopecia. J Am Acad Dermatol. 1999;41:555–63. [PubMed]

3. Leyden J, Dunlap F, Miller B, Winters P, Lebwohl M, Hecker D, et al. Finasteride in the treatment of men with frontal male pattern hair loss. J Am Acad Dermaol. 1999;40:930–7. [PubMed]

4. Kaufman KD. Long-term (5-year) multinational experience with finasteride 1 mg in the treatment of men with androgenetic alopecia. Eur J Dermatol. 2002;12:38–49. [PubMed]

Hey, if nothing happens to you, then that is you, but I've read more than one report about people freaking out because of severe sides from this long after they've been off it. Likewise, I had a very bald top of my head that is now shrunk to under 10% of its original bald size. Never touched Finasteride. I used progesterone cream and the various other calcium dealing substances I talk about...Magnesium Oil, Vitamin K2 and Vitamin D3. Calcium deposits in capillaries blocking blood flow to the hair follicles is starting to be seen as a cause of hair loss more and more recently. It certainly appears to be the case in my instance at least.

And speaking of ED, progesterone actually helps erectile dysfunction by acting similarly to viagara and increasing the production of Nitric Oxide, which can also be done by supplementing with L Citrulline/L arginine...some of strongest erections I've ever had have been since using Progesterone where it literally feels like it's going to burst...

And regardless of if your hair is thinning or not excess calcium is fvcking you up all the same. You might not realize it today, tomorrow or even 7 years from now...but those decades of excess calcium coating arteries, muscles, ligaments and tendons will manifest itself at some point. Reducing arterial calcium deposits by 50% in 6 weeks is no small feat and shows just how desperately the body needs these calcium binding proteins to be Carboxylated(Activated).

To be clear, calcium is not the real culprit here. The real culprit is the FDA allowing companies to fortify foods and drinks with calcium to try and "prevent osteoporosis" which makes no sense since supplying calcium in excess of what the body needs simply makes the problem worse not better. In fact studies continually show lack of calcium is not the cause of osteoporosis. There is virtually nobody who is calcium deficient in the world. The issue is the calcium is trapped in places where it shouldn't be and can't be used by the processes that need it. It would be like having a huge pile of bricks sitting unused at one job site while the workers complain they can't do their job at the other job site because there are no bricks. The bricks are there, just not in the right place for the people to actually use them and do their work. The role of Vitamin D, Vitamin K2, and Magnesium Oil are to transport calcium in the body, tell it where to go by activating calcium binding proteins and get it out of places it shouldn't be respectively.

 

[guru1000]

Marmel, on a separate note, I hope you are getting ready for this summer. Good times are a'coming

 

[marmel75]

Marmel, on a separate note, I hope you are getting ready for this summer. Good times are a'coming

Haha...my trainer is trying to kill me but I'm getting there...he is giving pro football player workouts with a 50lb weighted vest..they are freaking brutal...

getting ready to start a pretty wicked cutting stack later this week or early next week...Test/Masteron, anavar, MK-677 and igf1-lr3...fat incineration...if I could handle Tren I'd be using that but unfortunately it's not worth going into renal failure, kinda defeats the purpose, lol

 

[ubercat]

The science on finasteride seems mixed guys. @marmel75 do u have the same concerns about minoxidil?

 

[marmel75]

The science on finasteride seems mixed guys. @marmel75 do u have the same concerns about minoxidil?

I have concerns about ANY prescription drug if used on a daily basis for the rest of your life with very few exceptions...

 

[guru1000]

My total cholesterol is about 300, very high. About 10 years ago, doc prescribed me a statin. I felt like crap for two months while on it. I tossed it in the garbage.

Uber, take what reacts well with you. For example, Marmel doesn't react well to Tren. I tried, Tren, in my 20s, and it worked great. What's good for me may not be good for Marmel; contrariwise.

Rogaine, is great for maintenance and a bit of hair growth. There are no scientific studies, but anecdotal testimonies that profess Rogaine could cause wrinkles. I have zero wrinkles and have been using it for 10 years. So Rogaine works great for me.

Also look at RU58841. It arrests DHT at the follicle, topically applied. And many Fina/Dut users switched to RU and maintained ALL their hair in the switch. No reported side effects. But again, if you are taking Fin and Rogaine, and everything is fine, then indulge. I take Avodart, Rogaine, and RU. I also had 2700 follicles implanted in my frontal zone and hairline. Today, my hair looks thick as shvt. I get many compliments. Had I done nothing, I would be NW6 bald today.

 

[marmel75]

My total cholesterol is about 300, very high. About 10 years ago, doc prescribed me a statin. I felt like crap for two months while on it. I tossed it in the garbage.

Uber, take what reacts well with you. For example, Marmel doesn't react well to Tren. I tried, Tren, in my 20s, and it worked great. What's good for me may not be good for Marmel; contrariwise.

Rogaine, is great for maintenance and a bit of hair growth. There are no scientific studies, but anecdotal testimonies that profess Rogaine could cause wrinkles. I have zero wrinkles and have been using it for 10 years. So Rogaine works great for me.

Also look at RU58841. It arrests DHT at the follicle, topically applied. And many Fina/Dut users switched to RU and maintained ALL their hair in the switch. No reported side effects. But again, if you are taking Fin and Rogaine, and everything is fine, then indulge. I take Avodart, Rogaine, and RU. I also had 2700 follicles implanted in my frontal zone and hairline. Today, my hair looks thick as shvt. I get many compliments. Had I done nothing, I would be NW6 bald today.

There are an abundance of new studies showing cholesterol should not be the main focal point, or honestly possibly any focal point and that triglycerides are more dangerous. My cholesterol was around 180 when I got it checked, which is in the "danger zone" because anything under 165 is considered dangerously low and can be worse than having high cholesterol...so I make sure to eat all the saturated fat I can get, lol

 

[guru1000]

There are an abundance of new studies showing cholesterol should not be the main focal point, or honestly possibly any focal point and that triglycerides are more dangerous. My cholesterol was around 180 when I got it checked, which is in the "danger zone" because anything under 165 is considered dangerously low and can be worse than having high cholesterol...so I make sure to eat all the saturated fat I can get, lol

I had always stated the the medical profession was misdirected when trying to reduce cholesterol levels down to nothing, especially given cholesterol is the precursor to all your hormones. And as medical "opinions" change every decade, I was of the opinion that those who take statin could be at greater risk of a newly-created condition than those who elect to opt out. I'm not a fan of taking any substance that disrupts the body's natural homeostatic condition, unless it deals with hair or muscle loss, lol.

 

[marmel75]

I had always stated the the medical profession was misdirected when trying to reduce cholesterol levels down to nothing, especially given cholesterol is the precursor to all your hormones. And as medical "opinions" change every decade, I was of the opinion that those who take statin could be at greater risk of a newly-created condition than those who elect to opt out. I'm not a fan of taking any substance that disrupts the body's natural homeostatic condition, unless it deals with hair or muscle loss, lol.

Yeah, if you take a look at the recommendations of "normal" you'll see their range has become narrower and narrower, to the point of "if not enough people are outside 'normal' range for a drug, we will just create a smaller 'normal'" And that is literally what has happened over the last 50-60 years in Big Pharma's never ending effort to get everyone on as many prescription drugs from the time they are a kid until the time they die as they can...

 

[ubercat]

I have had a bit of a problem with ED lately. But that's only after some hours. It's happened very recently and I've been on fin for over 5 years. So I've put it down to age and lack of sleep. It's not an issue in the mornings so I'm thinking I probably should get my T tested as I've heard the morning is when it's at it's peak. In the meantime I've started having pomegranate juice manuka honey pistachios etc. Basically t enhancing foods and ED fighting. And it sounds like I'll be adding magnesium and K2 supplements.

 

[marmel75]

I have had a bit of a problem with ED lately. But that's only after some hours. It's happened very recently and I've been on fin for over 5 years. So I've put it down to age and lack of sleep. It's not an issue in the mornings so I'm thinking I probably should get my T tested as I've heard the morning is when it's at it's peak. In the meantime I've started having pomegranate juice manuka honey pistachios etc. Basically t enhancing foods and ED fighting. And it sounds like I'll be adding magnesium and K2 supplements.

Progesterone and an L-Citrulline/L-Arginine combo will take care of that quickly...as long as its not T related...

 

[ubercat]

I like any thread that I start to pose the questions get the input from the guys and at least have a summary of what I took away from it personally. This is a serious topic that could affect some of the older guys here so I think it deserves at least that much.

Tremendous thanks to @guru1000 and @marmel75 for conducting a high quality debate in the robust SS fashion we all know and love.

After reading both sides and doing my own research here is what I decided to do.

Continue with the finasteride and minoxidil as there still don't seem to be any good studies published. Showing widespread side effects and there has been at least one large scale study showing that anecdotal stories are just that.

However I do take the other side seriously so I've decided to cut back the dosage. One of the most interesting things I did find in my own research is that if you were using retin-a it boosts the effectiveness of the minoxidil so u only have to take it once a day.

Now the obvious risk is that because I am using such a low dosage it won't be effective as a hair loss treatment so I will have to monitor that overtime. For me personally if I ever have to choose between the hair and the **** it's bye bye follicles.

I've taken on board @marmel75 s great info on vitamins.

I'm not a big fan of vitamin pills as there are studies showing that because they are high dosage they may actually promote cancer. Seems like our bodies follow Nature's plan and would rather get vitamins from our food.

So that said for:
K2 I've added natto and sauerkraut to my diet.
Magnesium I've added a lot of spinach the Frozen pre-chopped stuff you can buy at your supermarket. Spinach does seem to be a wonderful food for vitamins seriously just eat it.

For the ED I've started taking pomegranate juice daily and eating watermelon, manuka honey, red wine, red grapes and pistachios.

And for a happy ending literally there are encouraging signs.

Had a sleepover at Nursie s place this week and she got the good news 3 times that night

I tend towards the Do No Harm approach especially when it comes to my valuable self ;-). I m sure I will have to consider Tren and all the rest of it at some point but I will delay that day as long as I can.

 

[ubercat]

Another sleepover. I've got hammered at work this week and had worked out 3 days in a row so I was dog tired and still rose to the occasion.

So my approach seems to have worked for me. As always guys take it with a Grain of salt and your mileage may vary.