Need opinions on this girl - strange situation.

[Maximus Rex]

And y'all question as to why new members need to make a minimum number of posts before making a thread.

 

[mac j]

Alright, reading all of that, I am now seriously reconsidering this.

I admit there have been some warning signs that I have chosen to push aside (she mentioned suicide in passing again, although I don't think she's serious in any way) as I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I just figured she was young and at a difficult stage of her life... and yes I was attracted and very intrigued by her.

What are the chances of her 'evening out' and maturing a bit over the next few years, as she gets her life and purpose together?

I feel like she's already quite attached and infatuated.

I will back off.

 

[Tictac]

I admit there have been some warning signs

LOL

 

[Maximus Rex]

I feel like she's already quite attached and infatuated.

Let's edit this sentence for accuracy,

I'm already quite attached and infatuated.

 

[Asmodeus]

Alright, reading all of that, I am now seriously reconsidering this.

I admit there have been some warning signs that I have chosen to push aside (she mentioned suicide in passing again, although I don't think she's serious in any way) as I like to give people the benefit of the doubt. I just figured she was young and at a difficult stage of her life... and yes I was attracted and very intrigued by her.

What are the chances of her 'evening out' and maturing a bit over the next few years, as she gets her life and purpose together?

I feel like she's already quite attached and infatuated.

I will back off.

You made the right choice in reconsidering being with her, the right choice for yourself. The suicide thing she is saying is a lie, she is using it to manipulate and control you.
You wanted me to humor you? Ok here we go... I know how she thinks, I know the machinery that grinds in her mind. It is not just youth or maturity, you assume she is like you and that she feels and thinks like you which is a false assumption...
This girl, has lied to you at every turn. I bet she is still lying to you, I bet that most everything she is saying is a fabrication. I bet even small details about her day are lies, just to misdirect you. Her entire persona and personality is a complete fabrication. I bet she is using you too because you are convenient, she is obviously not financially stable and using some of your own resources as her own (staying at your place). I would not be surprised if she is with other guys and using them also... You would not know, she would have covered up her tracks in a maze of fabrications. She is just waiting for you to show vulnerability, for you to fall for her. To create this vulnerability she will make you feel as though you are soulmates, feed you what you want to hear so that you feel idealized and in return idealize her. Then, when she sees that she will begin the real emotional manipulation... Let me tell you, it is a game. She will present false information, convince you that you are wrong and that you are the one who is at fault... She will keep you doubting yourself to keep you believing her lies. But she will give you just enough validation to keep you on the hook. It is behaviorism, conditioning, she will condition you and you experience more and more cognitive dissonance and deal with worse and worse manipulations by her. However, at some point... When she has lost interest, she will just toss you to the side as if you meant nothing or betray you.
You think you are immune to this, that you are stronger than to let yourself fall into this trap. But you are already falling for it.
It plays out like this every time... I do not even think she understands, I do not think she can control it. She just is by virtue of her cluster B personality disorder. Maybe she can "mature" maybe she can become a bit more understanding, maybe she can realize what she does, but she can never stop it because it is who she is.

 

[mac j]

You made the right choice in reconsidering being with her, the right choice for yourself. The suicide thing she is saying is a lie, she is using it to manipulate and control you.
You wanted me to humor you? Ok here we go... I know how she thinks, I know the machinery that grinds in her mind. It is not just youth or maturity, you assume she is like you and that she feels and thinks like you which is a false assumption...
This girl, has lied to you at every turn. I bet she is still lying to you, I bet that most everything she is saying is a fabrication. I bet even small details about her day are lies, just to misdirect you. Her entire persona and personality is a complete fabrication. I bet she is using you too because you are convenient, she is obviously not financially stable and using some of your own resources as her own (staying at your place). I would not be surprised if she is with other guys and using them also... You would not know, she would have covered up her tracks in a maze of fabrications. She is just waiting for you to show vulnerability, for you to fall for her. To create this vulnerability she will make you feel as though you are soulmates, feed you what you want to hear so that you feel idealized and in return idealize her. Then, when she sees that she will begin the real emotional manipulation... Let me tell you, it is a game. She will present false information, convince you that you are wrong and that you are the one who is at fault... She will keep you doubting yourself to keep you believing her lies. But she will give you just enough validation to keep you on the hook. It is behaviorism, conditioning, she will condition you and you experience more and more cognitive dissonance and deal with worse and worse manipulations by her. However, at some point... When she has lost interest, she will just toss you to the side as if you meant nothing or betray you.
You think you are immune to this, that you are stronger than to let yourself fall into this trap. But you are already falling for it.
It plays out like this every time... I do not even think she understands, I do not think she can control it. She just is by virtue of her cluster B personality disorder. Maybe she can "mature" maybe she can become a bit more understanding, maybe she can realize what she does, but she can never stop it because it is who she is.

I think you are absolutely right about the lying. I had no idea an 18/19 year old could be so calculating and purposely manipulative. How did she learn these things? The last time I saw her, she had a bruise on her cheek and said her ex cam round and hit her. Not even sure whether to believe that now...

But I don't understand WHY she needs to lie so much. Maybe she is trying to build a persona for herself that she thinks I'll find attractive in some way?

I don't see why she would want or need to use me though. I don't earn a lot (she and her family are very well off), I don't have many resources - she never hinted that she would want to stay at my place. She just seem to really genuinely like me... She does seem to require an excessive amount of (male) attention.

During the short time I was seeing her, she had thrown a couple of small tantrums, accusing me of not caring as much as her. She also once asked me if she was too much for me. The way she posed the question - I felt quite intimidated.

Will steer clear.

 

[Billtx49]

Gut level decision needed by you with this girl. No over thinking with the big head and/ or under thinking with the small one.

 

[mac j]

She's still being persistent despite me backing off.

She's saying she only said her mother had passed away because she can't stand her and that she meant she may as well be dead to her (obsessively manipulating and controlling her life to the point she had to run away). She quit the job after 4 days because the company was **** (it really is, I'll be leaving soon too) and the boss was a sh*t to her..

She says that she called me cowardly for not splitting with my gf right away because she wants a guy who takes action and makes decisions. She doesn't seem to have other friends here which is why she called me so much.

Am I being played here? I know it sounds bad but she makes other girls seem boring and is almost intoxicating, funny too. It seems like her mother might actually be the biggest problem in all this.

I have listened to your advice so far and I am not trying to rationalise her behaviour but I just want to make sure I am not passing up on a good opportunity with this girl here.

 

[Tictac]

She's still being persistent despite me backing off.

She's saying she only said her mother had passed away because she can't stand her and that she meant she may as well be dead to her (obsessively manipulating and controlling her life to the point she had to run away). She quit the job after 4 days because the company was **** (it really is, I'll be leaving soon too) and the boss was a sh*t to her..

She says that she called me cowardly for not splitting with my gf right away because she wants a guy who takes action and makes decisions. She doesn't seem to have other friends here which is why she called me so much.

Am I being played here? I know it sounds bad but she makes other girls seem boring and is almost intoxicating, funny too. It seems like her mother might actually be the biggest problem in all this.

I have listened to your advice so far and I am not trying to rationalise her behaviour but I just want to make sure I am not passing up on a good opportunity with this girl here.

If you are listening to any of her crap, you are allowing yourself to be played. She can't do a damn thing you don't allow.

Everything she has told you is bullsh*t. And you are so desperate for a piece of ass, that you want to swallow. So swallow then.

You are 'passing up on a good opportunity' with a POS.

 

[BeExcellent]

Her parents ARE her biggest problem. They are controlling but she needs to keep them happy enough that they will fund her BS. She wants to escape them but she is enmeshed in their money and she won't alienate to a degree that they cut her off. This has gone on her whole life so she knows how to pimp it like the most seasoned working girl.

Lying and telling people what they want to hear is the most natural thing in the world to her. She's an expert user; an expert taker.

I have a friend who married a BPD (which @Asmodeus has brilliantly described for you) and her parents are super controlling and super wealthy. Guess who ran the marriage? That's right, her controlling father. How emasculating! And when my friend stood up to her BPD and her father, oh wow the train wreck.

You are young. Drop this girl. Today. Go no contact, block her, get away from her. Her road leads to ruin. The farther you go the more ruinous your experience. She is seductive like the Sirens, and every bit as dangerous.

Like the Monty Python clip....

Run Away! Run Away!

 

[Asmodeus]

@BeExcellent everything I see from this girl screams that she is a cluster B case. Definite BPD, some traits of ASPD in there too, and narcissistic personality disorder. I too have a degree of cluster B,. I described the experience of being with a cluster B perfectly because what I said to him is what women have experienced with me. I have read the experience of an ex who's life I literally ruined... I am lucid enough and understanding enough to realize it. Thus, I do not have long term relationships...
Look @mac j I know what this game is. I know she is seductive, I know she is charming, I know she can seem like the most sexy and interesting woman in the world, I know she is engaging and exciting and fearless. I know, because that is how women describe me. Charming and seems perfect at first, but that is just the lure of a parasite.
Like me, she has no other friends and no social circles because either she has ruined her relationships with them. She wants to feel desired, and she wants to be a person who is loved but she is flawed in that she cannot love the same way in return. I know all the lies she has told you, and I have every single one of them to women, and still do.
I am a very rare case, I was worse in my past but I came to a kind of realization and understanding about who I am. A more philosophical understanding of things. Most cluster B people live in their own world, even I can only understand your experiences through inferring on what I know of psychology, motivation, and emotion. However, even if she becomes like me, and understands what she is and what she does, she will NEVER be able to control herself and she will never be able to love you in the way you love her.. I know this... I have been through it. I live it.
Look, I more than anyone on this forum know what this girl can do... You are better off without her. You cannot save her, but you can save yourself from her. Believe me, this kind of person can do a lot of damage.

 

[EyeBRollin]

You can try to **** her if you want, but don't let her anywhere near your place.

 

[Arcturus]

BPDs run on instinct not calculation bro. You need to go hard no contact. One little chink in your armor and she will exploit it. One weak day and she can dig back inside you and ruin your life for years. Run, run fast. They only go after people already naturally vulnerable to them. Never reply to her again. Like a drug the full detox takes months.

 

[mac j]

You guys sure have diagnosed her quickly and pretty accurately. Guess that's down to experience with this type of girl, of which I don't really have any yet. I never thought for one minute that she could be this dangerous, she seemed so sweet.

I have a friend who married a BPD (which @Asmodeus has brilliantly described for you) and her parents are super controlling and super wealthy. Guess who ran the marriage? That's right, her controlling father. How emasculating! And when my friend stood up to her BPD and her father, oh wow the train wreck.

If you don't mind me asking, what happened during this 'train wreck'? How old was the girl and why was she not independent of her father making decisions for her?

Look @mac j I know what this game is. I know she is seductive, I know she is charming, I know she can seem like the most sexy and interesting woman in the world, I know she is engaging and exciting and fearless. I know, because that is how women describe me. Charming and seems perfect at first, but that is just the lure of a parasite.

Scary stuff. It is SO very hard to imagine that such a young, beautiful, intelligent girl like this is already damaged and so dangerous. How did this happen.... She just seems to need A LOT of attention.. is that part of the Cluster B thing too? It felt like if I didn't give her enough, she would instantly go elsewhere to seek it. Sad, because she shouldn't need it to feel good about herself. She has no many good qualities.

I sometimes feel like if she could just spend some time with me, it might help her out and set her on the right path. She said she admired my honesty, moral compass and integrity. Is it not better to 'better the devil you know' in some ways?

BPDs run on instinct not calculation bro. You need to go hard no contact. One little chink in your armor and she will exploit it. One weak day and she can dig back inside you and ruin your life for years. Run, run fast. They only go after people already naturally vulnerable to them. Never reply to her again. Like a drug the full detox takes months.

How are they able to ruin your life for years? I did give her quite a lot of attention initially and was very responsive to her at first. She was talking to my friend too but he didn't humour her for very long, not as much as I did anyway, so she seemed to really fixate on me. I wonder if she saw that as a weakness. She actually blocked me again and cut me off, like I was the toxic one. Said I wasn't giving enough and that she tried.

 

[BeExcellent]

First off, she is in honeymoon phase with you. It won't last. It will until you let her know how much you care, and you already care too much.

My friend and his ex are twice your age. Old enough to be your parents. Her Dad STILL controls things. Her dad has the wealth, and insists on control. While they were married my friend worked for him off and on between his own gigs (he's in a creative industry), now that they have split his ex works for her dad. Her dad expects this from what I can observe. He has the $, he calls the shots.

They were separated off and on for years until the marriage finally fell apart. Imagine the havoc for the children with all this instability.

The have teenage kids who are all affected by some degree or other. One teen was on suicide watch (mandated under state law) after an episode some months ago.

The ex is alcoholic, in psychotherapy to no avail for decades, creates drama in my friend's life as well as her children's lives, and is a destabilizing nasty brand of crazy with few friends. She runs extreme hot & cold and because of her father's relatively unlimited wealth she has made my friend's life a living hell, dragging him into court to answer BS allegations, refusing to comply with her end of the divorce decree (dumping the kids off on him in her week so she can run off to Vegas to party), refusing to allow a graduation trip with my friend's side of the family (it was out of the country so both parents must give permission), she wrecks his life at every opportunity she can find and doesn't care how her behavior affects the kids (Negatively as you might imagine.)

My friend endured this for more than 20 years. He was seduced by the beauty, intelligence, and family wealth, and her need to be saved etc. etc. etc.

You are choosing to be oblivious. Please see this as a cautionary tale. Find a better girl who isn't damaged like this.

 

[Asmodeus]

Scary stuff. It is SO very hard to imagine that such a young, beautiful, intelligent girl like this is already damaged and so dangerous. How did this happen.... She just seems to need A LOT of attention.. is that part of the Cluster B thing too? It felt like if I didn't give her enough, she would instantly go elsewhere to seek it. Sad, because she shouldn't need it to feel good about herself. She has no many good qualities.

I sometimes feel like if she could just spend some time with me, it might help her out and set her on the right path. She said she admired my honesty, moral compass and integrity. Is it not better to 'better the devil you know' in some ways?


How are they able to ruin your life for years? I did give her quite a lot of attention initially and was very responsive to her at first. She was talking to my friend too but he didn't humour her for very long, not as much as I did anyway, so she seemed to really fixate on me. I wonder if she saw that as a weakness. She actually blocked me again and cut me off, like I was the toxic one. Said I wasn't giving enough and that she tried.

I understand her need for attention. Two components to it, first she craves attention and to be desired. It is the narcissism aspect of most cluster B disorders. The same reason why she desires to be a model or an actress. She also wants people to fixate on her... To make them keep her as the most important thing in their life, to have her as the center of attention and be their personal goddess, it is part of the aspect of control she needs to always be in control. I am trying to explain it in a way you can understand, but try to realize that it is not completely logical to you. Just as her lies are not logical, and why her behavior makes no sense...
I am sure she is intelligent, beautiful, charming... There is a false notion that people who have BPD/ASPD/HPD are stupid and socially akward. That is far from the truth, most people with BPD/ASPD/HPD are very charming, and often highly intelligent. Often they are the last people you would think are mentally ill.
You want to save her? You cannot, she can only save herself. In fact, you being there will make her worse. How can I explain? It is like a drug, the addiction. She is an addict to control, to feeling that high of emotions of lust and infatuation, she is addicted to being an idol and being idealized and worshiped, she is even addicted to manipulations to the games she plays. You being there, you will only feed her what she is addicted to. She will grow worse and worse. She must become her own savior. It will take her falling, and you must let her fall. She will have to suffer from her condition and find herself in darkness, alone, empty, and having destoried her life and finally trying to understand why. She will have to lose everything, and suffer and realize that what she is caused that suffering once everything else to blame is gone... That is the only way she can save herself. Even then, she will only become more self-aware, she will still be who she is as there is no cure for insanity.
You said she blocked you and left? Good for you, that was the best outcome you can hope for. I told you she was going to dispose of you at some point. I also told you she would make sure you felt the blame for it, and that you were the one creating the problems. You were giving resistance, and not giving in... Thus she tosses you to the side, as you are not worth it. In fact, even if she became completely self-aware and understanding, then she will still not be able to love you. She can have lust, infatuation, but never actual love... Just like @BeExcellent said, she can experience the honeymoon stage but nothing past it.

 

[dude99]

I did a bit of research and I can understand why you might say that but remember this girl is young and out here on her own. I can see why she might be doing this stuff out of loneliness etc. The reason for the name change is that she didn't want to be associated with her parents and wanted a fresh start.

But humour me, what kind of things should I expect if I were to get involved with her? I can feel myself caring for her already.

Stop thinking with your p*nis. You already know what to expect. Games. Drama $#!t tests, and she will cheat on you and ditch you when she finds her next mark.

100 guys can tell you to run away from this one but you're hoping one guy will say give it a shot.

This is a disaster. But you already know this.

 

[dude99]

no red flags here that I see... you're good to go!

Awesome.

 

[mac j]

Stop thinking with your p*nis. You already know what to expect. Games. Drama $#!t tests, and she will cheat on you and ditch you when she finds her next mark.

100 guys can tell you to run away from this one but you're hoping one guy will say give it a shot.

This is a disaster. But you already know this.

Isn't that all women to some extent, especially young attractive ones who are used to getting there way? Isn't what people are describing to some extent the modern spoilt brat who happens to be beautiful, too? Just waiting for the better option.... Don't get me wrong, I'm not involved with her anymore, just playing devil's advocate. Or is BPD this x100?

 

[dude99]

Isn't that all women to some extent, especially young attractive ones who are used to getting there way? Isn't what people are describing to some extent the modern spoilt brat who happens to be beautiful, too? Just waiting for the better option.... Don't get me wrong, I'm not involved with her anymore, just playing devil's advocate. Or is BPD this x100?

What you are describing is way beyond the spoiled brat that is hot. You're describing a narcissistic sociopath that is looking to use you and most likely ruin you all for her gain or pure entertainment. Cluster b's are nothing but parasitical garbage that will suck the life from you.

Don't feed them.