So I'm nearing my thesis on borderline personality women

[SadoMasochrist]

Shortlist to determine they are likely borderline

• Intense honeymoon stage
• There were significant elements of her courting you
• Asks for commitment early in the form of ILUs
• The relationship takes a 180 once you start to commit to her
• She "hates you" but won't leave (only when under YOUR frame)
• Intensely returns after any "breakup" real or perceived
• Physically abusive and explosive
• Enormous and unreasonable jealousy
• An impulse addiction, pick one below.
• Shoplifts or engages in socially unacceptable behavior and "gets off" on it at ANY time.
• Drives recklessly
• Treated poorly by mother or sexually abused by father

Cause of the madness

• Emotionally maturity level of between 3-13 years old. How mature will determine if they are low or high functioning.
• Decision making based on a primary drive to both reenact incorrectly attached feelings of "love" and to avoid abandonment.
• Due to incorrect childhood attachment, "love" is instead the "yearning" or "wanting" that one might associate with orbiting. This is associated with the feelings that a child most experienced that was neglected. So to be close to love, but not able to attain it, reinvigorates feelings they had as a child that they came to associate with love.

Pick their addiction

• Spending
• Food
• Drugs
• Sex

(If it's not one of these, it's cheating on you(sex))

I can control the cheating

Imagine a young girl, in the throes of puberty at a party populated entirely by clones of Brad Pitt and midgets. And until she talks to these people, they are a yet undetermined state just like in quantum physics. And when she talks to this person, if she subconsciously determines that she is both able to likely manipulate this person and that this person is emotionally unavailable, they turn into Brad Pitt. Regardless of social standing, job and income. Looks in this case are SMV0 or SMV10, and from a normal perspective SMV5+ = SMV10, and anything below = SMV0.

Now imagine any time you make this young girl feel loved, that in a moment of primal terror she is thrown into this party, where any man that she feels she's incapable of obtaining, yet able to be manipulated turns into Brad Pitt.

This is the creature you're dealing with.

Do you know what they called these women at a clinical level before it was formally called "borderline personality disorder?

Homewreckers. These were personality types that confounded clinicians because their behavior seemingly was the opposite of what should be expected. You build yourself up enough that a woman sees value in your, you guys arrange your life together, have kids etc. And then they burn it all to the ground? Why?

How long did your relationship with your borderline last? (What is your "prey" type)

• Only as long as the honeymoon stage, then she discarded me. AFC
• Hung on a little bit after the honeymoon, then was systematically destroyed. r-AFC
• Made it to marriage, kids. (Years and years) You have your own mental illness, likely NPD.
• Got painted black and somehow making it work. You have ASPD or are a masochist.

Read THE DANCE by Shari Schreiber, M.A if you made it to marriage\kids.

To me then, the logical conclusion of a woman with BPD is they can have only one sustainable structure.

• Male (overtly) requires the relationship open on one side (his)
• Female (covertly) "triangulates" (cheates)

Since we assume this person can not LOVE, then they can not be motivated by positive attribution to the self. You can't lift, earn, game etc your way into a position of solidarity. You can't appeal to her emotions. You can only motivate through a fear of loss and keeping yourself out of reach.

And even the most militant frame holders want to be able to experience the love of a tight family. And then, only then, after all those years of being the person you wanted to be, will you be destroyed from the inside out, for actually giving this person love.

Remember, when you actually LOVE this person and do loving things, this will send them into a state of panic which they will run from (self sabotage). They won't return back from that panic state until they feel that you are leaving, then they will HOOVER you back. There will be a meaningless display of COMPLIANCE not genuine interest in change.

Relationship requirements

• Militant frame
• Absolute indifference to betrayal
• View her strictly as a means to obtain what you want (sex)
• Can not be actually LOVED

SECONDARY requirements (can not be primary driver)

• Enjoyable to be around
• Care about her or your family
• etc. Basically everything you'd associate with why you want to be with someone.

Okay, I'll look up this BPD thing. Surely there's a way to manage....

• This is something that took root in CHILDHOOD
• You are confronting someone who feels "love" in a completely different a dysfunctional way
• After YEARS in therapy, they will "mostly be the same."
• You're trying to rationalize, as an adult, as someone probably more mentally healthy, with a child.

But she's my girlfriend, LTR, wife

If you want her to "love" you again, you can never love her again. She's now your PLATE. That being said, don't ever let her orbit you until you have another SOLID woman in your life and you've made peace that this woman will never love you. She will only love the idea, of loving you.

What is the point of loving this person then?

Only so long as this person provides some sort of positive value to you outside of love, can you remain in a relationship with them. And ultimately, they must be forced into the choice of the one sided (which is really just a mechanism for restoring respect to the treachery she's been doing) relationship OR you must go NO CONTACT and never return and stay away from validating her until you have a no solid girl. And then, NO VALIDATION. Only getting what you want, when you want it, on your terms.

And NEVER FORGETTING, she NEVER loved you and will NEVER love you. Only the IDEA OF LOVING YOU.

But I want to feel love!

You can love this person, but if you want it reciprocated, truly, you must find someone else to love you back.

What you MIGHT be able to get back is the woman that yearned for you, by demoting her to plate if she's under your frame. IF, and MAYBE.

That my friends, is what I will find out over the next year. And if in 6 months and a year I've tamed the beast, there might be hope, only for the most disordered and dysfunctional people, true sado-masochists. And not in the cheeky type of way, people that truly need some pain in their life. People that need to dish out and take some pain.

They say that a woman with BPD is the ultimate form of woman, perfectly feminine in your expectations of her emotional state. A slave to her emotions. The the mirror is a perfectly masculine man. Devoid of emotion or care, always ready to take care of his daughter and love her in the way a father must love his daughter.

Because you love your daughter, but you and your daughter are not in love. You play with her, you do nice things for her to make her happy, but you never supplicate and expect to get loved in return. Sometimes it happens, but your daughter won't make it a priority. Because that form of love, is uniquely adult and unique to healthy individuals.

Your gf\wife, ltr. She'll never be the girl that wants to please you or make you happy. Because inside, there is an emptiness that will never be filled. And all you can do, is give her the illusion that she can have you, without ever giving yourself to her.

This is, my goodbye. To the woman I loved, who gave me two beautiful children and a third child on the way. Who inspired me to become the man to keep up with her.

This is the woman, who I love with all my heart, after 10 years, who will be demoted to plate, because a real, honest relationship, is impossible from a physical level. Because you can never expect a child to honor something which is innately adult. She will never love you and never respect you, only act in ways to avoid the inevitable.

And so, it seems there is a resting place between two psychopaths in the end or a victory of BPD over NPD. The next 6 months will tell that story for me. What is clear, now, is what I thought was love was just a scared little girl, trying to desperately hold on to me for validation, who in my most militant times let her feel what she thought was love.

And that, is what I look forward to. A woman who will show me real love, as I show her a man that has fought on a battlefield way more dangerous than any man she's ever been with. Whether or not this woman will be an orbiter while I stay with this woman and the kids, or whether or not my SO decides she can not give the upper hand, we'll see. Everywhere from here is up for me.

 

[fastlife]

Very lengthy way to rationalize not detaching from an unhealthy relationship lol. Your whole 'thesis' falls apart when you actually take responsibility for your own issues. She'll never be a plate. Plates don't fvck up your world; they don't drain you of energy; they don't compromise your self-focus.

Look, I get it. I had an absolute blast with my BPDex. We had "chemistry"--but that chemistry required me to stay dysfunctional. You're like a heroine addict who thinks that, Well, if I can just use heroine recreationally then everything'll be fine. You can't; you're bargaining.

Your goal should be to become the type of man who'd never get involved with this girl in the first place.

Try this. Take out a picture of you from before you met your pwBPD. Take out a picture of you now. Place them side by side. Yeah, it's been 10 years, but look at your face. I mean, really look. You'll see what I'm talking about; I was only with mine 2 years and it was 95% honeymoon but I was exhausted by the end and it showed.

P.S. No woman will ever "love" you the way you idealize. Won't happen. They can only love the way you make them feel in this moment--but you can find women who are much more stable moment to moment; whose "love" is more sustainable; and who'll be a net positive to your life instead of a net negative.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

Very lengthy way to rationalize not detaching from an unhealthy relationship lol. Your whole 'thesis' falls apart when you actually take responsibility for your own issues. She'll never be a plate. Plates don't fvck up your world; they don't drain you of energy; they don't compromise your self-focus.

Look, I get it. I had an absolute blast with my BPDex. We had "chemistry"--but that chemistry required me to stay dysfunctional. You're like a heroine addict who thinks that, Well, if I can just use heroine recreationally then everything'll be fine. You can't; you're bargaining.

Your goal should be to become the type of man who'd never get involved with this girl in the first place.

Try this. Take out a picture of you from before you met your pwBPD. Take out a picture of you now. Place them side by side. Yeah, it's been 10 years, but look at your face. I mean, really look. You'll see what I'm talking about; I was only with mine 2 years and it was 95% honeymoon but I was exhausted by the end and it showed.

P.S. No woman will ever "love" you the way you idealize. Won't happen. They can only love the way you make them feel in this moment--but you can find women who are much more stable moment to moment; whose "love" is more sustainable; and who'll be a net positive to your life instead of a net negative.

I absolutely get where you're coming from. And we're on the same page.

Well, if I can just use heroine recreationally then everything'll be fine. You can't; you're bargaining.

You are absolutely correct. There are functional heroin users, they are functionally dysfunctional. In fact there's a great intervention episode involving a heroin user who was self sufficient. To intervene, they basically went to his employer and told them to fire the guy so that he couldn't continue to use, because he was otherwise functional.

This is absolutely bargaining, but it's also a "nothing to lose" play. We've got 2, and another on the way. As an NPD, there is positive value to the arrangement I propose. To me.

Try this. Take out a picture of you from before you met your pwBPD. Take out a picture of you now. Place them side by side. Yeah, it's been 10 years, but look at your face. I mean, really look. You'll see what I'm talking about; I was only with mine 2 years and it was 95% honeymoon but I was exhausted by the end and it showed.

You're on the same path I went down. Except I also went down a "recovery" path. There's a double edged sword here. If we view cluster Bs as essentially only somewhat manageable, but still more or less the same person, I should expect to be more or less the same as far as NPD. If I accept that, then I just need to setup my "resource" properly and hold my party line there.

Your goal should be to become the type of man who'd never get involved with this girl in the first place.

Yes, I went down that path. And I was miserable. Not just because it didn't work for the relationship mechanics, but because I who I was. Because really, if I'm honest with myself, you don't make this kind of relationship work for 10 years without yourself being a huge piece of ****.

P.S. No woman will ever "love" you the way you idealize. Won't happen. They can only love the way you make them feel in this moment--but you can find women who are much more stable moment to moment; whose "love" is more sustainable; and who'll be a net positive to your life instead of a net negative.

This is a larger meta discussion that I'm not ready to get into 100% yet. I'm in discussion right now with a neuroscientist in London. It appears I'm one of the few self aware NPDs in a NPD-BPD relationship. The discussion we were having was whether or not pickup sites are inherently discussions involving PD dating of sorts. My position was that the empirical, not scientific, evidence was overly weighted by these relationship types. His position was that they were entirely representative. In another post on another site I discuss this love, I understand what you mean.

What I'm saying is we both know there is a DISTINCT and drastic difference between real love and BPD love. BPD love, is yearning. Real love is an exchange of happiness. And from a seduction perspective, we're in agreeance. You must be careful to love in deficit, as to not supplicate and create a motherly relationship.

But this is one point I will say you're 100% wrong on. To even imply that a BPDs love is similar to the tag line of "woman can not love" is not a comparison that can be made.

If the truth is the empirical evidence here is weighted, we're disagreeing on the mechanics of love between PD and non PD. If the guy in London is right, we're both wrong and that real love is something that may be out of reach for the non-disordered, though we have convinced ourselves through a self selection bias that it doesn't. I'm not ready to buy the idea that the Disney idea of love exists for all but the most naive, perfectly selected accidents which may make up maybe 1-2% of all couplings, and only through their own extreme naivety is such a thing possible.

What I can 100% accept, is that the "yearning" love which is an issue of childhood attachment is certainly not what a normal woman feels, and that is functionally incompatible with a normal family at least.

As far as I'm concerned I have nothing to lose at this point, I already want to leave. I just want to see what happens when I start shooting up recreationally so to say. So we agree there, and I have not tricked myself that this is the solution to my problems, only a possible, and inherently unlikely solution.

That being said, I've grown quiet fond of the dysfunction at this point now that I understand the beast. It was being in the dark that was truly the hardest part. Once I understood what was really happening, it was really about whether or not I could make this work. And accepting that it would be impossible to have a normal relationship I think is indicative that I'm ready to accept real truths.

Lastly, we'll always be part of the exBPD crew even if I pilot this trainwreck somehow. It should really be the "painted black" crew. Because that is the point where you know what BPD is, and until then you can't understand it. It's just something people type on the internet, of these mythical beastlike creatures.

 

[fastlife]

Not just because it didn't work for the relationship mechanics, but because I who I was.

You're accepting 'who you are' based on 'who you've always been.' And 'who you've always been' is really just a collection of maladaptive reactions to external stimuli that you've internalized as part of your core personality. It's really just a thought-pattern that manifests itself into behavioral patterns that are subconsciously arranged to reaffirm your thoughts. Because anything outside of your ego is extremely uncomfortable--life threatening almost.

Because really, if I'm honest with myself, you don't make this kind of relationship work for 10 years without yourself being a huge piece of ****.

Again, you're regurgitating some sentiment that you've subconsciously internalized before the age of 10--based on an inherent misconception of the world and its relation to yourself.

What I'm saying is we both know there is a DISTINCT and drastic difference between real love and BPD love. BPD love, is yearning. Real love is an exchange of happiness.

Real love is self-love. It's not anything external to yourself. If you love your life and who you are, you'll naturally love anyone who chooses to be a part of that and remain unphased to anyone who doesn't; and most people will love you for letting them remain a part of your life. If you're involved in a BPD-type relationship, they're just serving as a proxy through which to love (and hate) yourself, since you're uncomfortable owning your own range of feelings as being an inherent part of who you are.

Everything else is just chemical reaction--highly temporal and conditional.

But this is one point I will say you're 100% wrong on. To even imply that a BPDs love is similar to the tag line of "woman can not love" is not a comparison that can be made.

It totally is. Either way, you're looking for something external to yourself; you won't find it there.

I've never been diagnosed--but I was a total Cluster B grab bag (thanks mom & dad lol). I read all the stuff about how NPDs can't ever change--and it was convenient at the time; change was tremendously uncomfortable and I could easily trick myself into idealizing 'how I was' as the correct way of being (who'd of thought?).

I still slip into old habits from time to time--but the difference is that I catch myself; I've learned how to self-validate & to practice radical self-acceptance. If you're interested I can dig up some stuff on meditation work I've posted about in the past--can't promise anything, but if you're self aware it might be worth a shot. Definitely get more out of that than clinging onto Mrs. BPD.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

You're accepting 'who you are' based on 'who you've always been.' And 'who you've always been' is really just a collection of maladaptive reactions to external stimuli that you've internalized as part of your core personality. It's really just a thought-pattern that manifests itself into behavioral patterns that are subconsciously arranged to reaffirm your thoughts. Because anything outside of your ego is extremely uncomfortable--life threatening almost.

I agree and I've made enough changes to warrant many comments from friends and family, but I've found a comfortable thresh hold. There is talk about how NPDs really only grow after they lose their "prop." That was absolutely 100% true in my case. That being said, I also lost C\F and a lot of what I was, even if that projection like you say is a defence mechanism. And I was happy with that.

So there is a line to walk between self defence and also realize part of who you become doesn't have to be because you're NPD. That even if I wasn't I still would want to make people laugh, take part in risk taking behavior, etc.

I mean there are positive aspects to ASPD. I guess I should have expounded more, that I didn't like pretending to be normal. There were still plenty of NPD behaviors that I'm glad to be consciously aware that I should change.

That also mirrors discussions about people moving from NPD LF to ASPD HF in situations like this. Though I don't know how close I'd ever get to ASPD since I do still feel empathy, shame, guilt and regret. Albeit at reduced levels. And seemingly more towards people I'm close to. A complete stranger for some reason I think is the most normal I feel in terms of empathy.

Either way, I don't have any illusion I'll be a normal person and found out I don't really care about infidelity so far as its discrete, she's a ***** in the bedroom every night and the respect issue is the overt agreement to the one sided relationship. Then if its merely about her emotional ficulty, so be it. Can't fault a child.

I don't want to lose the nuclear family and my "resource." And if I'm to believe you that true love does not exist, then this is simply the true acceptance of female nature and the sexual market. And in that case, by way of reason, I simply can not care about fidelity outside my paternal issues, which are already confirmed, twice.

She then, is simply my *****, and a friend and the mother to my children. But nothing in between, because love does not exist.

 

[Infern0]

What's afc-r

 

[Infern0]

Oh and BTW I think you are a future suicide waiting to happen. Sorry but its obvious.

If you actually have NPD then you are in a robotic, compulsive dance with a predator who is above you on the food chain, who you will never beat and your fragile ego can't handle it. You are literally going to lose everything.

But oh well I have no sympathy for any personality disorder, so knock yourself out and keep us updated on the entertainment.

 

[SmooveMooves]

A thesis though... lmao.

 

[ohrein]

Reading that list makes me think my last plate was BPD. I hate jumping to those conclusions cos we all do it on here all the time but 90% of that list applies to her. You also left out the emotionless states when they get too emotional and shut down. They appear incredibly cold and detached. Given most of that list applies and I'm the aloof "bad boy" I'm starting to think she's BPD.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Whatever you do, stop getting this woman pregnant. A BPD mother plus a NPD father is not a setup for healthy, well-adjusted kids.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Just joined and has this "thesis" written up? Yeah, no obsessive feelings here or anything.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

Just joined and has this "thesis" written up? Yeah, no obsessive feelings here or anything.

There aren't many guys who have made it 10 years with a BPD, I'm here to help you understand the beast and also the inner mechanics of a woman. A BPD is essentially amplified game theory. If these things aren't an interest to you, then why are you here replying?

Whatever you do, stop getting this woman pregnant. A BPD mother plus a NPD father is not a setup for healthy, well-adjusted kids.

I'm going to focus on making sure these kids are treated properly. I don't know what these mechanics do, but I'll unravel that. I knocked her up the third time before I knew it was BPD.

Either way, telling her I was opening up things one side didn't go terrible. I expected a lot more violence and resistance. But she still basically tried wiggling out of it, still wouldn't let me end it.

They say that dread while pregnant is never allowable, I think I proved that with BPD the fear of abandonment, so long as she's under your frame, is always the lever you can use. I see now from a mechanics perspective why these women are easily turned into *****s for pimps etc.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

There aren't many guys who have made it 10 years with a BPD, I'm here to help you understand the beast and also the inner mechanics of a woman. A BPD is essentially amplified game theory. If these things aren't an interest to you, then why are you here replying?

So wait, your whole premise here is that being with a BPD for 10 years is some new level of game? I think fastlife said it best with his reply:

Very lengthy way to rationalize not detaching from an unhealthy relationship lol. Your whole 'thesis' falls apart when you actually take responsibility for your own issues.

So, why did you choose to stick around 10 years? I mean, why stop at 10? Why not go for 20 then? I'm sorry but serious mental issues are things I'm just not going to deal with. There are qualified professionals these days who can help.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

So wait, your whole premise here is that being with a BPD for 10 years is some new level of game? I think fastlife said it best with his reply:

So, why did you choose to stick around 10 years? I mean, why stop at 10? Why not go for 20 then? I'm sorry but serious mental issues are things I'm just not going to deal with. There are qualified professionals these days who can help.

Are you really reading the OP? This is already recognized in the OP. This is a meta\theory discussion. If you want to grab the Gossip magazine off the rack, be my guest. But don't come in here posting about things covered in the OP.

What I said is that game is what turned gas into TNT, a prerequisite was my own mental issues. This is not a "new level of game" merely a discussion involving mechanics not oft discussed. Also, it's an interesting and high level discussion simply because BPD women are amplified non-PD women.

The reason why I stuck around 8 years is because I wasn't able to realize how emotionally uninvested I was, because I was operating as an NPD and actively practicing game in the LTR. It wasn't until we had kids that I let my guard down and her in. That's when hell broke lose.

There's nothing to justify this, only actually an interest in discussing the mechanics here. For instance, I was unsure just how pervasive the fear of abandonment was, so when I told her that I was opening up one side of the relationship, despite her being pregnant, I was in uncharted territory.

Conventional rules dictate dread while pregnant is terminal. So I am not ashamed to admit I am in uncharted territory.

But claims that I'm a future suicide etc are missing the point that I've already demoted her, emotionally. I fear this discussion is impossible or too difficult because it may be a discussion simply between PD and non-PD people, that division making communication difficult, even at stripped down as I'm making this.

 

[fastlife]

Really feel for your kids. The best thing my parents ever did for me was divorce so that I only ever had to deal with one PD at a time.

Also lol at thinking her 'gracefully' accepting the terms of open marriage means ANYTHING. That's her giving you the illusion of power. My BPDexgf was sweet as pie right before things went nuclear--bjs on demand, cooking, gifts, nonstop texts (this was after we'd 'broken up'). I was 'the man' lol. If you think she hasn't stored up 10 years of ammunition you're being naive. Better believe she's triggered HARD and actively seeking your replacement before she burns it to the ground. You'll never be less emotionally invested than her, ever; she has nothing to lose.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

Really feel for your kids. The best thing my parents ever did for me was divorce so that I only ever had to deal with one PD at a time.

Also lol at thinking her 'gracefully' accepting the terms of open marriage means ANYTHING. That's her giving you the illusion of power. My BPDexgf was sweet as pie right before things went nuclear--bjs on demand, cooking, gifts, nonstop texts (this was after we'd 'broken up'). I was 'the man' lol. If you think she hasn't stored up 10 years of ammunition you're being naive. Better believe she's triggered HARD and actively seeking your replacement before she burns it to the ground. You'll never be less emotionally invested than her, ever; she has nothing to lose.

Jesus man, you aren't reading the OP at all.

"That's her giving you the illusion of power." No ****, it's in the OP, just like your last reply. It's a matter of respect, not power. A woman who has no empathy has ultimate power to do anything she wants, there's no limit.

Burn what to the ground? I asked her for the ring back already. She gonna break up with me before I do it with her?

Ohhh, double secret probation!

 

[phillies]

You're accepting 'who you are' based on 'who you've always been.' And 'who you've always been' is really just a collection of maladaptive reactions to external stimuli that you've internalized as part of your core personality. It's really just a thought-pattern that manifests itself into behavioral patterns that are subconsciously arranged to reaffirm your thoughts. Because anything outside of your ego is extremely uncomfortable--life threatening almost.

I agree and I've made enough changes to warrant many comments from friends and family, but I've found a comfortable thresh hold. There is talk about how NPDs really only grow after they lose their "prop." That was absolutely 100% true in my case. That being said, I also lost C\F and a lot of what I was, even if that projection like you say is a defence mechanism. And I was happy with that.

So there is a line to walk between self defence and also realize part of who you become doesn't have to be because you're NPD. That even if I wasn't I still would want to make people laugh, take part in risk taking behavior, etc.

I mean there are positive aspects to ASPD. I guess I should have expounded more, that I didn't like pretending to be normal. There were still plenty of NPD behaviors that I'm glad to be consciously aware that I should change.

That also mirrors discussions about people moving from NPD LF to ASPD HF in situations like this. Though I don't know how close I'd ever get to ASPD since I do still feel empathy, shame, guilt and regret. Albeit at reduced levels. And seemingly more towards people I'm close to. A complete stranger for some reason I think is the most normal I feel in terms of empathy.

Either way, I don't have any illusion I'll be a normal person and found out I don't really care about infidelity so far as its discrete, she's a ***** in the bedroom every night and the respect issue is the overt agreement to the one sided relationship. Then if its merely about her emotional ficulty, so be it. Can't fault a child.

I don't want to lose the nuclear family and my "resource." And if I'm to believe you that true love does not exist, then this is simply the true acceptance of female nature and the sexual market. And in that case, by way of reason, I simply can not care about fidelity outside my paternal issues, which are already confirmed, twice.

She then, is simply my *****, and a friend and the mother to my children. But nothing in between, because love does not exist.

If you were aspd wouldn't care enough to make this thread or analyze what happened.

 

[phillies]

Are you really reading the OP? This is already recognized in the OP. This is a meta\theory discussion. If you want to grab the Gossip magazine off the rack, be my guest. But don't come in here posting about things covered in the OP.

What I said is that game is what turned gas into TNT, a prerequisite was my own mental issues. This is not a "new level of game" merely a discussion involving mechanics not oft discussed. Also, it's an interesting and high level discussion simply because BPD women are amplified non-PD women.

The reason why I stuck around 8 years is because I wasn't able to realize how emotionally uninvested I was, because I was operating as an NPD and actively practicing game in the LTR. It wasn't until we had kids that I let my guard down and her in. That's when hell broke lose.

There's nothing to justify this, only actually an interest in discussing the mechanics here. For instance, I was unsure just how pervasive the fear of abandonment was, so when I told her that I was opening up one side of the relationship, despite her being pregnant, I was in uncharted territory.

Conventional rules dictate dread while pregnant is terminal. So I am not ashamed to admit I am in uncharted territory.

But claims that I'm a future suicide etc are missing the point that I've already demoted her, emotionally. I fear this discussion is impossible or too difficult because it may be a discussion simply between PD and non-PD people, that division making communication difficult, even at stripped down as I'm making this.

Why don't you do things that actually make you happy? If you feel you need some pain in life go to the gym or something.

 

[SadoMasochrist]

Why don't you do things that actually make you happy? If you feel you need some pain in life go to the gym or something.

This is making me happy.

 

[fastlife]

Jesus man, you aren't reading the OP at all.

"That's her giving you the illusion of power." No ****, it's in the OP, just like your last reply. It's a matter of respect, not power. A woman who has no empathy has ultimate power to do anything she wants, there's no limit.

Burn what to the ground? I asked her for the ring back already. She gonna break up with me before I do it with her?

Ohhh, double secret probation!

Your LIFE. She'll take you as far down as you let her (and I promise her bottom is lower than yours). She can burn it to the ground, abandon her kids, take up with junkies in an abandoned trailer park--your ego won't let you walk away from all that. If you were full blown ASPD, I'd say go for it. You're not.

It's like, I'm not emotionally invested in a tornado hitting my house--doesn't mean it won't fvck up my life. She doesn't 'respect' you--you can't respect anyone or anything if you don't have some degree of self-respect, which require a degree of self, which she doesn't have. She has you beat at game theory by default. You're playing chicken--she removed the steering wheel from her car a long time ago.

The only play is to eject. She may or may not take it upon herself to ruin you (though she'll certainly try if you make it so damned convenient). You know what I did with my ex? I went BP AF; took the blame for everything; told all of our mutual acquaintances that I was fully responsible; mirrored her back to herself--told her I was a six year old trapped inside an adult body. Validation, validation, validation. Then I locked myself in my room for a month and meditated nonstop. There was no more game left for her to play--so everything blew over. That's a 'W.'