Why some people get stuck into the anger phase

[CuddleJunkie]

Reykhel's thread about the different phases one goes through while swallowing the redpill, which is indeed too big to swallow at once, made me realize something. A big number of men in this forum still cling to old visions of marriage, and society. You have to let go of that too; unless you move to China, or another still traditional country, and we have to see the way these will go in the near future.

You have to lose the attachment you have to old concepts of society and men-women relationships. And many of you have accepted the new reality of intergender relations, but you fail to desattach yourself from ideas such as "re-instauring patriarchy", or "we only need to step up as men and stop giving women attention". These ideas won't work, and the reason why is really simple. Patriarchy only works when there are problems to confront, when there is a need for violence, when fighting is necessary to the survival of a group. And this is not the case anymore, we live in a hyper-provided society, people can literally smoke weed and masturbate everyday while doing a ****ty job, there is no need to fight, and there are no causes, to fight for.

Patriarchy will exist again in the West, because the West will fall, but the rule of men won't come without colapse. A traditional society will not resurge from MGTOW movements, or from "neo-masculinity". Accept the reality of the times you have been born into, and stop fighting for a lost cause. This is hard, I know it, you can be sure of it, but it will make you a happier person AND will help you with overcoming the anger phase towards women; because a great deal of what still makes you attached to chasing unicorns is the opportunity to live an old society lifestyle, with a nice marriage and a traditional woman that will take care of you, and your family.

Let go of your attachment to traditional societies, let go of your attacthment to how women are in such societies; and if you want to go deeper down the rabbit hole, let go of yourself.

 

[BetterCallSaul]

Patriarchy will exist again in the West, because the West will fall, but the rule of men won't come without colapse. A traditional society will not resurge from MGTOW movements, or from "neo-masculinity". Accept the reality of the times you have been born into, and stop fighting for a lost cause. This is hard, I know it, you can be sure of it, but it will make you a happier person AND will help you with overcoming the anger phase towards women; because a great deal of what still makes you attached to chasing unicorns is the opportunity to live an old society lifestyle, with a nice marriage and a traditional woman that will take care of you, and your family.

An interesting premise and I can agree with this, but the fundamental flaw in it is when will that next big war or societal collapse happen? Entire generations of people can come and go before it ever does occur; are they just sh!t out of luck because they didn't get in on the action, or rather they were born at the wrong time?

 

[CuddleJunkie]

The point is that there is no wrong or right time, there is no better or worse in absolute terms. There are better conditions to a patriarchy setting, and there are better conditions to a femenine imperative setting (look up chimpanzee vs bonobos societies, it's fascinating and you can apply it to human societies). The victims are the betas, alphas never are the victims, and this is key.

In a patriarchy based culture, both alphas and betas will have opportunities to have a more or less happy life, thanks to the structured society that provides for their aspiration (causes to fight for, creating a strong family, having a sense of group thanks to nationalism, etc), making them happy this way. In a femenine imperative based culture, betas have nothing else to do but suffer or try to step theirselves up; alphas will enjoy the multiple women and their freedom to do as they please. Now, I have a theory about alphas-betas, and I do believe that you are born in one of those groups (of course, it is a continuum, not two separete categories, but let's mantain it like that for the sake of the argument); and then society tries to betafy you. So a beta discovers the manosphere, he's blown away, he understands the redpill theory, and then he has to make a decision: MGTOW or DonJuan lifestyle.

Born-betas will go the MGTOW route, because they simply can't enjoy the alpha lifestyle of multiple women without attachtment to them, the constant pursue of becoming better men that it entails, etc; alphas instead will re-actualize their potential, that was covered by social pressure to make betas out of them, and even if it is hard, they will learn how to be a real man (look up "The Way of Men"), they will enjoy the new challanges and the new opportunities to prove his value to himself and to the world.

So there are no better or worse, you can enjoy life in any of these two types of society, you just have to adjust yourself to the rules of the enviroment. This said, I have a hell of respect for those that still fight for a resurgement of patriarchy in the West (Roosh comes to mind), but as YaReally has pointed out, they are not really happy, they have not move from the anger phase.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Anger doesn't sell an ideology very well. Why would anybody want to be pissed off all the time?

 

[Huffman]

Yep, anger is purely reactionary. You're angry about something, which spurs you into action, changing things until you're fine and not angry anymore.

Being perpetually angry and pumped is the same mentality as "suffering every day to improve yourself". It's too much for a happy life.

 

[RangerMIke]

This is arguing two ends of the same extreme. A traditionalist and a feminist dominated society has the same fvcking end result for men, we get used.... The only difference is in a "traditionalist patriarchy" we get a 'atta boy' pat on the head.

It's just like watching a Trump or Sanders political rally... it's the same fvcking thing. Bunch of over emotional people failing to rationalize. They are all angry, but they are angry because they are internalizing what is going on. The root of anger is ego, pull your ego up by the roots and you don't have this problem anymore.

Take up yoga and surfing... only worry about things you can actually control. You can't control society and you can't control women.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Taking this idea in a bit of a different direction. In my mind, Alpha and Beta are states of 'being' as opposed to 'being' genetically imposed. As we move through life the Alpha/Beta traits serve us at different ages and for different reasons. A man in his 90's has no reason to exhibit Alpha male characteristics, he needs to rely on a civilization to pull him up. A rich man can be an Alpha but a poor man must ask others for help, when he too becomes rich he will change his frame to suit his lifestyle.

Resources or lack thereof may also encourage a man to change state.

 

[zekko]

I think guys who are unable to find a way to become successful with women are more likely to get stuck in this anger phase.

I'm not so sure that Patriarchy will necessarily ever return in the West though. Even many of the most hardcore guys here expect a woman to hold down a job and be responsible for herself, unlike back in the 50s. You can't put the feminism genie back in the bottle unless you deny women the right to vote, and I haven't heard any outcry to do that. Also, I think there's a possibility that the tendency we've seen where the genders have begun to resemble each other more and more may not reverse itself, it may be the way we evolve from here. As opposed to going back to cavemen days, that the PUAs like to talk about.

If you look at the classic depiction of aliens, they appear to be basically sexless. Some people say they are even humans from the future visiting the past. Either way, I think it's entirely possible that our sexual differences may eventually disappear as we become more intellectual creatures. Not saying I approve of it, mind you, but I think such a future is entirely possible.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Dammit Jim, these are feminists not dinosaurs. Feminism is indicative of one thing, death of an empire by decadence and inclusiveness. What happens to isolated societies? They become retarded through too much inbreeding and develop cult like social structures revolving around made up bvllsh1t that makes no sense and has no bearing on the larger world. Feminism is the mold that appears atop a severely decayed chunk of resource. In order for the race as a whole to flourish, mates must attract each other through stark differences connected to their CIS genders. Women need to act more feminine and men need to embrace masculinity. It is no mistake that feminists are usually androgynous as are most men in today's western society, the societal structure is rotting away. Not to worry, it will be replaced by a strong and growing society, there are plenty available on the Earth, just not in the North Westerly area. One only needs to venture out of the bubble to see it for himself. Adding to that the new wave of PUA thought whereupon western men waste valuable time 'spinning plates' of useless feminist women in perpetual states of bachelordom. Decadence will of course not be able to sustain itself forever, built upon the previous civilizations gains, it will last only as long as there are resources to consume. Once those resources are exhausted, the organism will die, to be replaced by a stronger, healthy variant.

Now I'm simply repeating myself.

 

[Infern0]

I'm working on this currently.

It does take a while to get over the fact you've been lied to your entire life and your parents basically set you up to be a failure. Add to that old habits die hard.

I will get there, though.

 

[ohrein]

The point is that there is no wrong or right time, there is no better or worse in absolute terms. There are better conditions to a patriarchy setting, and there are better conditions to a femenine imperative setting (look up chimpanzee vs bonobos societies, it's fascinating and you can apply it to human societies). The victims are the betas, alphas never are the victims, and this is key.

In a patriarchy based culture, both alphas and betas will have opportunities to have a more or less happy life, thanks to the structured society that provides for their aspiration (causes to fight for, creating a strong family, having a sense of group thanks to nationalism, etc), making them happy this way. In a femenine imperative based culture, betas have nothing else to do but suffer or try to step theirselves up; alphas will enjoy the multiple women and their freedom to do as they please. Now, I have a theory about alphas-betas, and I do believe that you are born in one of those groups (of course, it is a continuum, not two separete categories, but let's mantain it like that for the sake of the argument); and then society tries to betafy you. So a beta discovers the manosphere, he's blown away, he understands the redpill theory, and then he has to make a decision: MGTOW or DonJuan lifestyle.

Born-betas will go the MGTOW route, because they simply can't enjoy the alpha lifestyle of multiple women without attachtment to them, the constant pursue of becoming better men that it entails, etc; alphas instead will re-actualize their potential, that was covered by social pressure to make betas out of them, and even if it is hard, they will learn how to be a real man (look up "The Way of Men"), they will enjoy the new challanges and the new opportunities to prove his value to himself and to the world.

So there are no better or worse, you can enjoy life in any of these two types of society, you just have to adjust yourself to the rules of the enviroment. This said, I have a hell of respect for those that still fight for a resurgement of patriarchy in the West (Roosh comes to mind), but as YaReally has pointed out, they are not really happy, they have not move from the anger phase.

I don't think it's genetic, but I was definitely RAISED as beta. I tried the alpha lifestyle and mindset for a while and I found it a tedious waste of time. I'd rather jack off for five minutes and play piano with my spare time. The MGTOW route makes sense to ME simply because women can offer limited value depending on what you want from your life. For me, I've realized they add very little other than periods of brain chemistry highs. That's fun if it isn't a huge investment for me but otherwise the payoff isn't worth it.

But then again, maybe it is genetic. Maybe that drive is just low in me. I just get more out of writing a song or programming some software than sinking time into endless plates. At my peak I was ****ing three plates and it was so tiring and so very boring. I honestly don't know how you crazy bastards do more.

I guess it means I'm not really a DJ even though I'm content with life and can get women if I choose. I feel like that's all a DJ is compared to my old self but perhaps I'm way off. *Shrug*. As long as we can help everyone who comes to these forums to find what they want within what reality dictates possible, the distinctions don't really matter at the end of the road.

 

[zekko]

Dammit Jim, these are feminists not dinosaurs

Lol, funny line. I agree with you for the most part, or at least I want to. But part of me wonders if women acting more feminine might not be going backwards rather than forward. I mean I want it, you want it, we all want it. I'm just not so certain that is what the future holds.

It's kind of like me, I'm of a certain age now, where the world where I grew up in is gone, and I have to accept to some point that I'm becoming obsolete. It's going to be the millennials who carry on with the world, and many of them have different values than I do.

 

[fastlife]

The cure for anger is taking action and, as much as possible, eliminating expectations; enjoy agency in and of itself; refuse to internalize any rationalizations that make you the victim.