What is the point of all this? Is this what makes you happy? Why does it make you happy?

[fastlife]

Sorry to disappoint you, but we are not trying to make any point. We are just questioning the teaching and inquiring about it because we want to make sure 100% that it would benefit our lives.

I'll bite. You mentioned meditation, which I'm a huge proponent of for cultivating mental and emotional freedom--part of what goes on here is an effort to achieve mental and emotional freedom. Most of the guys here are here because of some trauma--usually related to one or more women, usually traceable to definite societal misinformation and unproductive, ineffective mindsets--and are all at different stages of self-actualization. Thus, you do have guys that are still bitter, resentful, and threatened by dissenting opinions and views (because their own views haven't been solidified yet and they're still battling societal influences that tell them they aren't supposed to think for themselves).

However, where meditation falls short is in cultivating physical freedom. You can deny your biology, but it doesn't make you immune to the consequences of it. Sex is natural; and it's good; and it's good to be able to express yourself that way without having to undergo self-effacement or disingenuously pander to societal interests or to prioritize someone else's life goals over your own.

You mention happiness. Does this make us happy? Does anything make anybody happy? LOL. The closest thing I can find to happiness is freedom and purpose. Freedom comes from having options. Purpose comes from using those options to further your life goals. You can reduce the entirety of the DJ Bible or any of the other advice here to one basic principle: have options.

 

[GuruBÓglivian69]

I'll bite. You mentioned meditation, which I'm a huge proponent of for cultivating mental and emotional freedom--part of what goes on here is an effort to achieve mental and emotional freedom. Most of the guys here are here because of some trauma--usually related to one or more women, usually traceable to definite societal misinformation and unproductive, ineffective mindsets--and are all at different stages of self-actualization. Thus, you do have guys that are still bitter, resentful, and threatened by dissenting opinions and views (because their own views haven't been solidified yet and they're still battling societal influences that tell them they aren't supposed to think for themselves).

However, where meditation falls short is in cultivating physical freedom. You can deny your biology, but it doesn't make you immune to the consequences of it. Sex is natural; and it's good; and it's good to be able to express yourself that way without having to undergo self-effacement or disingenuously pander to societal interests or to prioritize someone else's life goals over your own.

You mention happiness. Does this make us happy? Does anything make anybody happy? LOL. The closest thing I can find to happiness is freedom and purpose. Freedom comes from having options. Purpose comes from using those options to further your life goals. You can reduce the entirety of the DJ Bible or any of the other advice here to one basic principle: have options.

Lets see..

First, how does freedom make you happy? I have all the freedom... somehow it doesn't matter to me that much. What do you mean by freedom? Freedom like money to do whatever you want? How does that make you happy? For me it would just make everything so easy that life becomes so boring and lifeless. Think about it: getting anything you want in this world as far as material is concerned,anytime you want.. How would this make me excited, happy?

Second, I don't think freedom and purpose can go hand in hand. Freedom means that you can do whatever you want. Purpose means that you have a direction.. And when you practice that direction, then it is that much less freedom. Can you elaborate? Appropriately please. Thanks.

At least, when one was a beta... One genuinely felt happiness, joy, bliss. It is true that he felt hell, misery and sadness too. But this may be one of the basic principals of life. You see, it may be that all don juan forum has done is turn people into other side of a coin. I have a feeling that all the people here who have learnt the core teaching of this forum comes out pretty much without much feeling. Kind of like a rock. At least when one was a beta, he was like a flower, alive. When one becomes ''alpha'', he certainly doesn't have that much negative emotions, but I don't see that much positive emotions either. Do you agree?

 

[fastlife]

Lets see..

First, how does freedom make you happy? I have all the freedom... somehow it doesn't matter to me that much. What do you mean by freedom? Freedom like money to do whatever you want? How does that make you happy? For me it would just make everything so easy that life becomes so boring and lifeless. Think about it: getting anything you want in this world as far as material is concerned,anytime you want.. How would this make me excited, happy?

You might have freedom, but you lack purpose. I love how the first thing that comes to you mind is materialistic. Does it get any more socially conditioned to that? Of course, I'm not opposed to having money. Money can buy options--but its only liberating to the extent that you aren't owned by money or the pursuit of it.

In view of that, how much freedom do most men really have? They go to college (or work, depending on their situation) because it's what they're 'supposed to do.' They work a 9-5 job in a field that they might not have any real interest in (but society's told them it's a good field to work in) because it's what they're 'supposed to do.' They get a girlfriend, probably not their ideal girlfriend, but who they decide is their ideal because she chose him--or they choose her out of a limited pool because they've never cultivated their options and are still bound by fear of rejection. Slowly, they begins to prioritize their life, which, if they really face it, was pretty boring and empty without her, around her due to fear of loss (because she's so 'special,' remember ). They marry her (if they make it that far) because it's what they're 'supposed to do.' They have kids and the men support her for the rest of her days--possibly while remaining married, but equally likely she divorces them and leaves for another man who didn't make her his life purpose. Cool story, right?

Even if the hypothetical man has options, at no point in this story is he willing to exercise them. And where he does have choice, his choices are still limited by societal narrative that doesn't necessarily have his best interests at heart. Freedom? He wouldn't know what to do with it.

Second, I don't think freedom and purpose can go hand in hand. Freedom means that you can do whatever you want. Purpose means that you have a direction.. And when you practice that direction, then it is that much less freedom. Can you elaborate? Appropriately please. Thanks.

A purpose that is self defined.* I should've clarified. But I chose my own purpose. It wasn't what society tells me I should strive for. It isn't something that my parents would want for me. But I get to decide my own meaning (which is the ultimate freedom, no?).

So yes, I have direction. Yes, certain options will get me closer to my life goals than others. And, yes, certain options (like becoming a drug addict or robbing the nearest bank) should be avoided. My purpose necessarily restricts those options, but those options are there--and they're only limited because I choose to limit them. Certain people will take me further from my life goals, some might want to support me along the way; but since I have options I get to select for the type of people I let into my life and to what extent they get to stay there. I get to structure my relationships with women so that if they fit into the former category, I can find new women who don't--and I'm not bound to any of them out of a sense of obligation or propriety or because I might not be able to meet a new girl just as easily.

At least, when one was a beta... One genuinely felt happiness, joy, bliss. It is true that he felt hell, misery and sadness too. But this may be one of the basic principals of life. You see, it may be that all don juan forum has done is turn people into other side of a coin. I have a feeling that all the people here who have learnt the core teaching of this forum comes out pretty much without much feeling. Kind of like a rock. At least when one was a beta, he was like a flower, alive. When one becomes ''alpha'', he certainly doesn't have that much negative emotions, but I don't see that much positive emotions either. Do you agree?

The happiness of a beta is like a drug. It allows them to refute their responsibility for their own happiness by prioritizing the happiness of women, of their family, of society as a whole, over their own. They don't have to make any real choices--society has chosen for them. But it's illusory. They can't even genuinely enjoy the company of a real woman--they have to create an illusion of a woman to fit their rationalizations for their own lack of agency.

They're happy when she's happy. They're sad when she's sad. They lack self-love and the closest proximity they can get to that love is to have it reflected to them by a woman--and losing that woman sends them into total alienation from their faulty self-love feedback loop. Genuine...uh, yeah, lol.

Being alpha isn't about never experiencing negative emotions (though some here have taken the path of pain avoidance). But it's about being responsible for your own emotional state and for the decisions you make. And, naturally, when you have options and you are able to make choices, you're not compulsively bound to any given source of negative emotions.

It's also not about never allowing yourself to experience love--but it requires you to create your own definition for what love is. For me, I love myself; and I'm able to love everyone else unconditionally--there's nothing they can do to threaten my sense of self and I can find admirable qualities in anybody I meet. But love, for me, is separate from investment and attachment--I only invest in people who are worthy of that investment. While a girl is submissive, pleasant, loyal to me, I'll look out for her. I'll invest emotionally to the extent that she remains those things for me--I'll experience 'love,' but that 'love' is conditional. It's predicated on her performance--just as I would expect her to leave me if I'm not providing whatever it is she needs out of that relationship (and women, even if you commit to them unconditionally, will leave you the minute you stop performing). Even so, I don't attach my ego or sense of self to any girl ever; if she leaves, yeah I might be sad for a day or two, but there'll be other girls.

 

[HEADMASTER_eglian]

You might have freedom, but you lack purpose. I love how the first thing that comes to you mind is materialistic. Does it get any more socially conditioned to that? Of course, I'm not opposed to having money. Money can buy options--but its only liberating to the extent that you aren't owned by money or the pursuit of it.

In view of that, how much freedom do most men really have? They go to college (or work, depending on their situation) because it's what they're 'supposed to do.' They work a 9-5 job in a field that they might not have any real interest in (but society's told them it's a good field to work in) because it's what they're 'supposed to do.' They get a girlfriend, probably not their ideal girlfriend, but who they decide is their ideal because she chose him--or they choose her out of a limited pool because they've never cultivated their options and are still bound by fear of rejection. Slowly, they begins to prioritize their life, which, if they really face it, was pretty boring and empty without her, around her due to fear of loss (because she's so 'special,' remember ). They marry her (if they make it that far) because it's what they're 'supposed to do.' They have kids and the men support her for the rest of her days--possibly while remaining married, but equally likely she divorces them and leaves for another man who didn't make her his life purpose. Cool story, right?

Even if the hypothetical man has options, at no point in this story is he willing to exercise them. And where he does have choice, his choices are still limited by societal narrative that doesn't necessarily have his best interests at heart. Freedom? He wouldn't know what to do with it.



A purpose that is self defined.* I should've clarified. But I chose my own purpose. It wasn't what society tells me I should strive for. It isn't something that my parents would want for me. But I get to decide my own meaning (which is the ultimate freedom, no?).

So yes, I have direction. Yes, certain options will get me closer to my life goals than others. And, yes, certain options (like becoming a drug addict or robbing the nearest bank) should be avoided. My purpose necessarily restricts those options, but those options are there--and they're only limited because I choose to limit them. Certain people will take me further from my life goals, some might want to support me along the way; but since I have options I get to select for the type of people I let into my life and to what extent they get to stay there. I get to structure my relationships with women so that if they fit into the former category, I can find new women who don't--and I'm not bound to any of them out of a sense of obligation or propriety or because I might not be able to meet a new girl just as easily.




The happiness of a beta is like a drug. It allows them to refute their responsibility for their own happiness by prioritizing the happiness of women, of their family, of society as a whole, over their own. They don't have to make any real choices--society has chosen for them. But it's illusory. They can't even genuinely enjoy the company of a real woman--they have to create an illusion of a woman to fit their rationalizations for their own lack of agency.

They're happy when she's happy. They're sad when she's sad. They lack self-love and the closest proximity they can get to that love is to have it reflected to them by a woman--and losing that woman sends them into total alienation from their faulty self-love feedback loop. Genuine...uh, yeah, lol.

Being alpha isn't about never experiencing negative emotions (though some here have taken the path of pain avoidance). But it's about being responsible for your own emotional state and for the decisions you make. And, naturally, when you have options and you are able to make choices, you're not compulsively bound to any given source of negative emotions.

It's also not about never allowing yourself to experience love--but it requires you to create your own definition for what love is. For me, I love myself; and I'm able to love everyone else unconditionally--there's nothing they can do to threaten my sense of self and I can find admirable qualities in anybody I meet. But love, for me, is separate from investment and attachment--I only invest in people who are worthy of that investment. While a girl is submissive, pleasant, loyal to me, I'll look out for her. I'll invest emotionally to the extent that she remains those things for me--I'll experience 'love,' but that 'love' is conditional. It's predicated on her performance--just as I would expect her to leave me if I'm not providing whatever it is she needs out of that relationship (and women, even if you commit to them unconditionally, will leave you the minute you stop performing). Even so, I don't attach my ego or sense of self to any girl ever; if she leaves, yeah I might be sad for a day or two, but there'll be other girls.

Thanks for your point of view! But look where this mindset has eventually lead you: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-stay-interested-in-plates.229919/

 

[yungballa]

Ahahahhahhaah, absolutely hilarious. Is my text endangering your ideas that much or why are you getting so worked up?

To get all those LTR, STR of yours, they teach here to become an alpha. A-L-P-H-A. Do they teach you to become beta to get those said things? Let me repeat so you may understand easier: B-E-T-A. It shouldn't be hard to understand. I don't really know why it is so hard.

lmao thats cool im glad that you find my post hilarious. i wouldn't say you're "endangering" my ideas; i just won't take to you kindly when you call me an idiot.

...and like I said.. OTHER members might aspire to be an alpha male, but I am not worried about that. So, I really don't know what claim you're trying to make when you're responding to me. They could teach me the ways of an alpha, but in my mind I'm not worried about "Is this alpha? Is this beta?"
Fvck that. I'm just going to be the best version of myself possible, and I'll make decisions that won't damage/benefit me while still remaining to be myself. Being an alpha male is definitely not my ultimate goal.

i've always considered myself an open minded person, im mostly open to new information. i know i won't always be right in this world, and in this life there is so much information to learn, and many different perspectives to see. i try not to be limited at the information that i know. so, whatever you're saying, i don't know how you're supposed to "endanger" my ideas. i just live by whatever WORKS for me in life. if i learn something else and it applies to my life, then i'll use it. but if something's useless (TO ME & MY EXPERIENCES) i'm obviously going to disregard it. perspective is everything. we all have our own views.

what i'm saying is we all have different perspectives. everyone has their different ways of living life. whatever works for one person probably wont work for the next.

i don't give a damn about being alpha or beta. yeah, some of the information on here might be about being an ALPHA male, BUT i am not worried about presenting myself as an alpha male. i'm just going to work to be the best version of myself and if i come off as alpha or beta, then oh well. nobody is perfect. i'm not some robot that goes around acting %100 alpha at all times. i know i'm a human and i have emotions, but i prefer to cast away emotions that won't do me any good.

i won't use anything that will damage/won't benefit my well-being in life.

 

[GuruBÓglivian]

lmao thats cool im glad that you find my post hilarious. i wouldn't say you're "endangering" my ideas; i just won't take to you kindly when you call me an idiot.

...and like I said.. OTHER members might aspire to be an alpha male, but I am not worried about that. So, I really don't know what claim you're trying to make when you're responding to me. They could teach me the ways of an alpha, but in my mind I'm not worried about "Is this alpha? Is this beta?"
Fvck that. I'm just going to be the best version of myself possible, and I'll make decisions that won't damage/benefit me while still remaining to be myself. Being an alpha male is definitely not my ultimate goal.

i've always considered myself an open minded person, im mostly open to new information. i know i won't always be right in this world, and in this life there is so much information to learn, and many different perspectives to see. i try not to be limited at the information that i know. so, whatever you're saying, i don't know how you're supposed to "endanger" my ideas. i just live by whatever WORKS for me in life. if i learn something else and it applies to my life, then i'll use it. but if something's useless (TO ME & MY EXPERIENCES) i'm obviously going to disregard it. perspective is everything. we all have our own views.

what i'm saying is we all have different perspectives. everyone has their different ways of living life. whatever works for one person probably wont work for the next.

i don't give a damn about being alpha or beta. yeah, some of the information on here might be about being an ALPHA male, BUT i am not worried about presenting myself as an alpha male. i'm just going to work to be the best version of myself and if i come off as alpha or beta, then oh well. nobody is perfect. i'm not some robot that goes around acting %100 alpha at all times. i know i'm a human and i have emotions, but i prefer to cast away emotions that won't do me any good.

i won't use anything that will damage/won't benefit my well-being in life.

I am sorry, I didn't mean anything bad with the word 'idiot.' To me it simply means that one who does not know. It is like me saying, don't be so ignorant. Let's switch the words.

Okay I see, you don't care about being an alpha. I don't know if it's considered a good or a bad thing here.

 

[fastlife]

Thanks for your point of view! But look where this mindset has eventually lead you: http://www.sosuave.net/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-stay-interested-in-plates.229919/

Had to dig pretty deep to find a negative post, huh?

Yeah, at that point in my life I wasn't particularly satisfied with my current options. But that post doesn't tell the full story. Literally less than a week after posting that I met my all-time favorite girl and we had an awesome fling that lasted several months. She lived a couple hours away but came down to my city several times over the next few months. Then her semester started and she wouldn't be able to make the trip for a while and I wasn't interested in playing phone buddy--neither of us were really interested in anything long distance--so we called things off last month (for now) but I'm sure she'll hit me up next time she's around. At the same time, I was hanging out with another girl for a while who was really cool--but she started pushing for more than I was willing to give her. Ended that on good terms, too.

I don't pretend to be a finished product--but life keeps on getting better and better. I'm grateful for all the experiences I've had (good and bad) and what I've learned from them; and I have some exciting things coming up in my professional life that I wouldn't be able to pursue if I were in a serious relationship. Currently I'm not dating any girls and I'm not really looking. That's cool, too. You'll find that most of the guys here are all pursuing different relationship goals--some are just trying to sleep with as many girls as possible (more power to 'em), some are trying to find a girlfriend, some guys are trying to improve their marriage, some guys are trying to spin plates, etc. But mostly we're all just sharing knowledge that will enable us to choose what the role of women in our lives will look like. I'm sure at some point most of us here will settle down to some degree, but we'll have developed the knowledge and skill sets to make those relationships work for us.

 

[zinc4]

Greetings guys. Long time no see. This is an interesting thread, for a variety of reasons. Mostly pure entertainment.

The OP keeps mentioning the term "goal." What is the goal? Well is there a real goal in life in the first place that's not just an illusion of what we have been told we need to do? In other words, why does the OP need to know what our goals are with this? Are goals important to you op? If so, that's your perception of reality not everyone else's.

The OP then goes on to belittle the significance of freedom.

Spoken like person who has been handed everything their entire life and takes certain liberties for granted.

So obviously, OP is a woman.

OP, let me give you the most honest answer, at least from my vantage point.

If there is any goal, its just to get laid or to be able to attract an ideal gf or gfs.

For me, i'm a sex addict. So, it's to manipulate women into sleeping with me. Is that a goal? I'm not sure.

Am I truly indifferent to women? Ofcourse not.....never will be as long as I have a penis and sex drive. They will always hold a certain power over me until I just completely grow bored of sex with new attractive, preferably, Asuan or Hispanic women.

Am I an alpha or do I want to be one? I could care less about what is alpha. Only foolish people worry about such things. Is that what this forum is about? Not sure, but I think it's mostly about getting laid more frequently, despite what others will say.

And I don't care about making myself better as a person, at least not through this forum.

So the answer is sex and power over women that I desire.

Now some questions for the OP:

Where does your passive aggressiveness stem from? Men in your past?

What is your "goal" here? Why don't you value freedom?

I can most likely answer these for you, but sometimes it's fun watching.

 

[Asmodeus]

Again with the "projecting" carp... You are literally the worst troll I have ever seen. Why are all the trolls on this forum such beta punks.
Alpha males go about making their lives better, making money, ****ing b!tches, improving themselves... This is what this forum is about. I think trolls must all be beta males, because instead of going and making your lives better, instead of enriching your life, you go and hide behind some fake internet profile and **** on everyone else's cake. I think this angst stems from the fact that betas have this mindset that the entire world is against them, instead of fighting and challenging it they just give up. This leads to frustration, angst, and to release it I believe these raging betas become trolls. Or in other words, it is just beta male passive aggressive bull$hit. In fact, in animal behavior beta males that fail to achieve alpha status and fall to the lower echelons of the dominance hierarchy can in some instances become toxic to the pack, and instead of trying to be a member they will cause a disruption to the pack often causing the pack to have to leave them (this is where you get your lone wolves that get exiled from the pack). I think the same principle applies here...

 

[zinc4]

All this Alpha/Beta stuff is the current rage it appears.

There are those that march to the beat of their own drums or leaders and then there are followers. It's as simple as that.

Red flags start popping up in my head immediately when I hear people using such terms as Alpha and Beta. Everything doesn't have to be over thought and labelled.

 

[Asmodeus]

True @zinc4 labels are often generalizations. However I am not generalizing when I say that those two fools are trolls.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

Thank you for your appropriate answer. I didn't really think there would be many in this forum capable of this after this thread. So many releasing their seemingly infinitive amount of unconscious feelings.

Anyway, so yeah, you have a beautiful point: this is all natural and biological. Do you think this is the only way for human to become happy or easiest? Don't you think there are other ways.. like meditation. Please don't take this question as some form of attacking. I am just trying to have an appropriate conversations.

Many here seems incapable of appropriate conversations. Do you have an explanation to this too? The reason I said this is because it is my experience here. Either they are saying that I am weak or trolling or something, I have no idea what they are talking about.. But one thing seems to be very clear: they are projecting their feelings very overtly through their messages.

As to the first question, no it isn't the ONLY way nor is it the easiest either. But it is the most practical way. You could have life handed to you on a golden platter and not see anything of the outside world, just have fun under some king's palace or something like that, and have people make you believe you worked hard for this life somehow despite it being given to you. That would be the easiest I suppose, for you at least. But it will be at the cost of others tremendously so. And this never happens in the modern world anymore anyway, so it doesn't really matter.

Also, the reason why I say that this is the most practical way is because generally speaking, when you are improving yourself or have improved yourself, you still remember what it was like to be a lesser version of what and who you are now. And when you look back and realize how much progress you have made, it isn't that temporary happiness that feeds your ego, rather, it is that much deeper level of confidence and feeling of glory that raises your self esteem that you are embellished in. This causes true, long term happiness.

Also, when people speak of self improvement, this encompasses a very broad range of what improvement is. We here do teach each other about how to attract women, but the general idea is to embrace your instincts, as they will guide you towards happiness. Your instincts for example tell you to eat, so you eat. It doesn't tell you what specific food to eat though, because it doesnt matter. The same goes for life. You should follow a general path ahead of you as plan to reach your goal in life (whatever that may be), but don't dwell on the specifics because you will never find everything perfectly in place and will be dissapointed, as things aren't working out [exactly] they way you wanted them to. Do keep in mind, too, that what works for you on your toad to self improvement may be different from mine or from another person's. For you, meditation might be your way of reaching that true happiness. For others, it may be wrestling in their college team. Like I said before, have a general idea of what improvement is to you, but don't focus on the specifics. This may be a bit difficult to comprehemd as it does seem like more like a rambling response rather than a coherent message, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying.

As to your second question, this is a more sensitive topic than you might believe. Asking what the point is, is like asking an Olympian why he or she is competing. It can come across as saying 'what you are doing is meaningless', though I can see that you aren't trying to insult. It was simply the way this question was worded that may have irritated others. "What is your purpose?" is a much better poised question than "what's the point?". Plus, you are thinking too logically about everyone's answers by separating the details with how they directly correlate to your questions and the philosophies followed here. Try looking at the other responses in a more holistic way. It should be easier to understand them then.