Dark Triad

[fastlife]

So much black and white thinking in this thread.

The problem with Dark Triad traits is that it's still a form of codependency--it's rooted in inner emptiness where you have to acquire supply from other people. Are girls attracted to these traits--yes, some of them; certainly to a greater extent than the opposite spectrum of codependency (Nice Guy syndrome), which is equally manipulative, but which uses generosity and niceness to endear themselves to the target to coerce the same degree of reciprocity (again, to get supply).

Selfishness is healthy (DT trait). Emotional regulation and independence is healthy (DT trait). Being calm, collected and able to act boldly is healthy (DT trait). These traits naturally result in a greater degree of attractiveness to women. But narcissism sucks. I spent the first 23 years of my life living that way. Was I well-liked, popular, etc.? Yeah. Did I have hot women, even nice girls with solid upbringings, throwing themselves at me when I was a self-destructive, impulsive jackass? Yeah. Was I happy? Only for a while--until I'd get tired of validation from one source and have to seek it from another.

Do you know what the absolute best source of supply was? BPD women--God, I needed that idealization. But then your supply turns on you and you end up frustrated and injured and resentful and bitter--but you stick around because you have to be in control and you get stuck in games of petty manipulation and self-degradation (but you really don't have a sense of self so the degradation doesn't register).

In the past year I've made an effort to kill my ego and to focus on my own actions and my own happiness instead of using manipulation to derive a sense of self-worth from others. Never been happier and haven't noticed any drop-off in the attractiveness of the girls I've been able to attract--except they don't turn into annoying, clingy, sniveling messes because I'm not 'taking' anything from them. I don't try to make them dependent on me because I don't need them to be--and when things end there really hasn't been any drama.

It's all about finding a sense of balance and realizing that the system that works for you doesn't have to be at the expense or the pedestalization of anyone else.

 

[LiveYourDream]

So much black and white thinking in this thread.

The problem with Dark Triad traits is that it's still a form of codependency--it's rooted in inner emptiness where you have to acquire supply from other people. Are girls attracted to these traits--yes, some of them; certainly to a greater extent than the opposite spectrum of codependency (Nice Guy syndrome), which is equally manipulative, but which uses generosity and niceness to endear themselves to the target to coerce the same degree of reciprocity (again, to get supply).

Selfishness is healthy (DT trait). Emotional regulation and independence is healthy (DT trait). Being calm, collected and able to act boldly is healthy (DT trait). These traits naturally result in a greater degree of attractiveness to women. But narcissism sucks. I spent the first 23 years of my life living that way. Was I well-liked, popular, etc.? Yeah. Did I have hot women, even nice girls with solid upbringings, throwing themselves at me when I was a self-destructive, impulsive jackass? Yeah. Was I happy? Only for a while--until I'd get tired of validation from one source and have to seek it from another.

Do you know what the absolute best source of supply was? BPD women--God, I needed that idealization. But then your supply turns on you and you end up frustrated and injured and resentful and bitter--but you stick around because you have to be in control and you get stuck in games of petty manipulation and self-degradation (but you really don't have a sense of self so the degradation doesn't register).

In the past year I've made an effort to kill my ego and to focus on my own actions and my own happiness instead of using manipulation to derive a sense of self-worth from others. Never been happier and haven't noticed any drop-off in the attractiveness of the girls I've been able to attract--except they don't turn into annoying, clingy, sniveling messes because I'm not 'taking' anything from them. I don't try to make them dependent on me because I don't need them to be--and when things end there really hasn't been any drama.

It's all about finding a sense of balance and realizing that the system that works for you doesn't have to be at the expense or the pedestalization of anyone else.

^^^^^^^^^^ This is true wisdom! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Congratulations, on having the insight, courage, guts and fortitude, to become TRULY self responsible for your own happiness!!! Huge respect your insight and choice!!

 

[RangerMIke]

.....

But narcissism sucks. I spent the first 23 years of my life living that way. Was I well-liked, popular, etc.? Yeah. Did I have hot women, even nice girls with solid upbringings, throwing themselves at me when I was a self-destructive, impulsive jackass? Yeah. Was I happy? Only for a while--until I'd get tired of validation from one source and have to seek it from another..

Truth.... bottom line, narcissism is a female trait. Men I've met that are full blown narcissists are too much like women. Sure women are initially attracted to this because the man is acting like them.... but with no gender polarity is not going to last. Drawing attention to yourself is not masculine.

 

[Tictac]

All 'dark triad' traits are

Truth.... bottom line, narcissism is a female trait. Men I've met that are full blown narcissists are too much like women. Sure women are initially attracted to this because the man is acting like them.... but with no gender polarity is not going to last. Drawing attention to yourself is not masculine.

All 'dark triad' traits and combinations of them are simple and bottomless neediness.

 

[zekko]

Just because some things are effective does not mean it's worth using them. It's not worth selling your soul for women just like it's not worth sacrificing your financial security or peace of mind.

Anyone who studies psychology knows that narcissist and sociopaths are deeply unhappy and miserable people on the inside. It's not anything to be idealized, even though it obviously reaps significant rewards in the dating market. The fact that it does tells you all you need to know about the folly of obsessing over it.

I agree with this. This dark triad stuff appeals to a certain kind of person (male or female).
Personally, I think it's a big mistake that so many PUA types try to push psychopathy as a good thing.

 

[Ronaldo7]

Results are the only thing that matters.

Everything else is dispensable.

As long as the individual is out there reaching his objectives & doing well for himself, why does the rest matter?

Winners win and losers make excuses. Sums it all up.

The very same people who complain are the ones who have nothing to show for their efforts.

At the end of the day, we are only looking out for our OWN self-interest.

 

[Glumix]

Results are the only thing that matters.

Everything else is dispensable.

As long as the individual is out there reaching his objectives & doing well for himself, why does the rest matter?

Winners win and losers make excuses. Sums it all up.

The very same people who complain are the ones who have nothing to show for their efforts.

At the end of the day, we are only looking out for our OWN self-interest.

That's true.

But I think it is pretty important to say that those objectives are not the same for everyone.

Life is not a game in which when you win somebody else lose.
You play against yourself and you define for yourself what is winning and losing.

What seperate good from bad is pretty subjective, cultural and contextual.
Being a winner (or Alpha) in a ghetto is not the same as being a winner (or Alpha) in a Fortune 500 company.

If your goal in life is to fvck 10'000 girls then great, go for the sociopath way because that's perhaps the best strategy.
If your goal in life is to earn billions, it's fine, adopt the best strategies (sorry, no idea what's the best strategy for this one).

Just be REALLY aware of the implications and what you are sacrificing when you choose a strategy because you cannot have everything. If you chose the sociopath way, you are going to have a VERY HARD and LONG time reprograming yourself if in a distant future you would want to calm down and be more socialy acceptable.

Also remember something about happiness. We call it the Pursuit of Happiness for a good reason, it's because you never actually reach happiness. So you better enjoy the strategies you use more than the instant you reach your goal because that moment will not last for long.

Personally, I try to walk the path of dignity.

 

[Tictac]

Just because some things are effective does not mean it's worth using them. It's not worth selling your soul for women just like it's not worth sacrificing your financial security or peace of mind.

Anyone who studies psychology knows that narcissist and sociopaths are deeply unhappy and miserable people on the inside. It's not anything to be idealized, even though it obviously reaps significant rewards in the dating market. The fact that it does tells you all you need to know about the folly of obsessing over it.

The end justifying the means, any means, has always been the first refuge of losers.

 

[LiveYourDream]

We call it the Pursuit of Happiness for a good reason, it's because you never actually reach happiness.

I hope you did not mean that literally. If you did, I suggest you adjust your compass. Happiness does not have to be a mirage in the distance.

 

[LiveYourDream]

Results are the only thing that matters.

Everything else is dispensable.

As long as the individual is out there reaching his objectives & doing well for himself, why does the rest matter?

Winners win and losers make excuses. Sums it all up.

The very same people who complain are the ones who have nothing to show for their efforts.

At the end of the day, we are only looking out for our OWN self-interest.

Edit:
The sad thing is Ronaldo, for you and people like you, no matter what results you chase and even attain, those results will never fill, nor resolve, the emptiness you feel inside.

 

[Glumix]

I hope you did not mean that literally. If you did, I suggest you adjust your compass. Happiness does not have to be a mirage in the distance.

Happiness is not a mirage in the distance, nor it is in the distance.
It has to be right here and now.
Move towards goals but enjoy the way and obstacles while you try to reach it.

 

[Huffman]

I like to compare achievement with such basic things as learning an instrument.

I've picked up the drums 2 years ago and I'm pretty much a beginner. I have great aspirations because I love Jazz, Death Metal but it will probably take 5 more years before I can do it properly. But I still enjoy practicing. Not every day, but most days. Hell I even enjoy the most boring rudiments because, at the end of the week, I always see a noticeable improvement.
I'm having fun along the way, even though I'm not standing still.

This is, I believe, the best way to feel about reaching goals.

 

[zekko]

I hope you did not mean that literally. If you did, I suggest you adjust your compass. Happiness does not have to be a mirage in the distance.

I agree with this, but I would add that happiness is an ongoing process. You have to continually adjust to changing circumstances. You may be happy today, but what if you're diagnosed with cancer tomorrow? There are always challenges to deal with.

 

[Asmodeus]

This is taking a more philosophic turn it seems. Interesting, I do see alot of such on the DJ forum here most of it with an existential leaning, about making choices and defining oneself.
The sacrificing of the self? I am not sure... We live, we die... Everything in between is either sacrifice or a power struggle. We are more evolved than most animals, have a more developed neocortex. But like animals we struggle for resources (money, sex, power, ect), struggle to survive, struggle to influence the world around us, we also struggle in our search for meaning. Only ends do exist... Perhaps it does make me a "loser" if you would label it as such. Frankly, I think that people who shackle themselves to notions of morality and ethic are simply doing nothing but making themselves weaker and limiting their potential.
@Ronaldo7 Great point... I agree.

 

[Speculator E]

WtF? Be careful with this. While it may be good. Philosophy has to be rooted on experience. Philosophy without experience is mental masturbation. And is useless. ie. Keyboard Jockeys.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Women are drawn to leaders. Leaders are chosen by those who are willingly being led. One of the prime characteristics of a true leader is one who obviously cares for the well-being of his followers. In fact, they submit to him because they know he will take care of them. They don't see this as weakness at all, but rather ultimate strength.

To balance that out, a true leader is also feared because those who are being led know that he will not tolerate abuse or disrespect from his followers.

This is the delicate yin/yang that makes a man successful in terms of influence and power. The women who are attracted to the "dark triad" guys are low-quality, messed up women. Women who are attracted to the well-adjusted, powerful but feared Leader tend to be more well-adjusted themselves and are of infinitely higher quality.

It is better to strive to be a man who communicates covertly (speak softy but carry a big stick) and thus garner respect from quality people than to communicate overtly and threateningly and attract the bottom feeders.

 

[Tictac]

Women are drawn to leaders. Leaders are chosen by those who are willingly being led. One of the prime characteristics of a true leader is one who obviously cares for the well-being of his followers. In fact, they submit to him because they know he will take care of them. They don't see this as weakness at all, but rather ultimate strength.

Yes, fine leaders and respecters of women like - Charles Manson, Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, John Wayne Gacey, Che Guevera.

Where do you get this stuff?

 

[Atom Smasher]

I think there's a reading comprehension issue here, apart from your propensity to argue from extremes. You have mentioned depraved individuals, not well-adjusted, value-producing leaders.

These are the very people who I said attract low-quality bottom-feeders.

 

[Tictac]

I think there's a reading comprehension issue here, apart from your propensity to argue from extremes. You have mentioned depraved individuals, not well-adjusted, value-producing leaders.

These are the very people who I said attract low-quality bottom-feeders.

Have any evidence for your (uh) 'theory'?

Mine is that each of these 'leaders' had dozens of suitors and pursuers, some of which were among the most beautiful women of their time, not 'low-quality bottom feeders'. The men are/were indeed depraved. Which changed nothing.

It's nice that you want to believe your words. It's would be better if you believed things borne out by reality.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

So more of a general discussion of this... But a few of the people closest to me, and a therapist I had said that I show what is known as "dark triad" personality traits. These are a set of traits including narcissism, lack of empathy, and Machiavellianism. Due to my almost daily manipulation of women I do not think I can disagree. This is something that seems to have evolved and grew as a part of my personality over the years... Anyway, I read up about my so called "pathology" and find out that a great majority of the studies relating to it are focused on the sex appeal of individuals exhibiting these traits. They obtain a higher number of sexual partners on average... These are all from actual scientific studies. I guess that can explain the whole appeal of the "bad guy"... However I am wondering, what can be taken from this. Should DJs try to emulate these personality traits? Is the "dark triad" a component of what makes an alpha male? I also wonder how many of you would also fit under the "dark triad" just out of curiosity.

When you act on the will to receive for you and you alone, you will find that on the surface it looks like you have succeeded, but these "successes" are temporal, Pyrrhic victories.

Enduring success can actualize only when you act on your will to receive to share.

Don't be fooled by the temporal illusion of success. Those who possess these dark triad traits can accumulate water in their hands, but no matter how hard they try, the water will eventually seep through their fingers. History teaches: It does not last.

A little deeper: Nature allows them to succeed and lose, as one cannot experience loss without first having. Loss creates pain which incites motive to change. Thus, they will succeed in a big way--and then lose in a big way.