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LiveYourDream

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Sorry you have to go through this 5hit. I've interacted with women who have actually lived in danger, not just through domestic violence, but through physical, sexual, and emotional abuse, usually all three in one. It's an unfortunate thing that does exist in our society, and I hope that you can eventually find your way out of your situation.
He stood across me and told me he would off me, as he looked me directly in the eyes. I asked him what exactly he meant. Repeat 5 times till his fist slammed the table from four feet above. Subsequently I woke up one night from a deep sleep, and my gut had me on my feet running as fast as I could to make sure every door and window in my house was locked. Just as I locked the last window, he banged on the first door. He proceeded to force both doors and tried every window for more than 3 hours. 2 minutes is terrifying. 20 minutes is a long f'ing time. For more than 3 hours (2-5 am) I was frozen in terror. I happen to live in an area that does not have 24 hour emergency service. There is no dialing 911 for help. It's been a little over a year since then. He's been back many times, mostly in the daylight now, but its the never knowing that is so scary. He's on drugs now as if a sober psychopath who is upset you are not responding to their desires or directions isn't bad enough. Let's just take one heavily addicted to hardcore drugs. Scary in more ways than I could describe.

That's cool. Now give yourself a girly avatar so everyone else knows ;)
Like it?

See, I believe in all that 5hit too
I am glad. That gives me hope.

I've experienced love, and yes it's a magnificent thing that fvcks you up in all the right ways.
Some never know it their whole lives.

I know I have some healing work to do. I know I need to work on what is to be filled with loving from the inside-out and to be aware to always love from over-flow. I want to be all in, with all my heart and soul, all my loving, all my goofiness, all my imperfections. all that I am, all in. I want to share my loving and all that I am and I want to receive his loving and all that he is. Don't get me started here...yikes.

However, being fvcked up in those ways doesn't quickly go away when your significant other leaves. Marriage used to be in place to enforce the wedding vows; to make them actually meaningful. Marriage was the glue that held the relationship together throughout the rain, sun, and all the other crap that couples go through.

Now that we have "no fault" divorce, marriage is just a dried half-eaten piece of candy that melts when it rains, and divorce lawyers are there to catch the falling pieces. Our society has gone to 5hit, not only from the weakening of the marriage bond, but the blurring of gender roles and the presence of strong feminism. I feel like I've been handed an original piece of artwork portraying my beautiful future, only to find out that the picture is fiction, it's not an original piece, and it's printed on plastic.
I was married too. Divorce was the hardest thing for me to come to terms with. Mourning all the dreams shared that would now never come to pass was so painful. I loved him. I still love him. There has not been a moment that I don't. How do you leave someone you love? How do you divorce without making it about hate and anger? How do you love someone all the way through? I can say I have done it. It was one of the most heart wrenching periods of my life, trying to reconcile that. I did.

I told myself I would never marry again. I knew I wanted to partner again, absolutely. I knew not within the box called marriage.

There was a man who I fell in love with, but was never with...story for another time.

Then came falling for Mr. Psychopath who portrayed himself as a character that I loved and without hesitation shared all that was mine with. Then I found out piece by piece it was all a con.

Here I am today. I know the best is yet to come!!!!! I really do!!!!!!! I can feel it!!!!!!!!!!

here I am, contemplating whether I should ditch my current GF because she hasn't had any time for me in the past month. I've been having a full-blown affair with my right hand. It's like a repeat of my marriage.
Only you can decide and know what is a short term blip in the radar or a long term pattern. For myself, I know I want to be with a man that is into me, as passionately as I am into him.

It's nice to have another female on-board that isn't going to tell us how wrong we are!
Thank you! I REALLY appreciate your compassion and understanding!

P.S. If I get out of line, kindly give me nudge and let me know please. =)
 

LiveYourDream

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Feels good to be free, heh. When your vessel is open to the world and you are genuine/direct with your intention, you will invite good fortune into your life, as your energy is pure, natural, uncorrupted.

You remain unaffected by not forming beliefs or judgments upon others who are "uncorrected" and debased, and thus need help. Be like water in both beliefs and judgments: be formless, shapeless, judgmentless--especially to those who wrong you. For if they wronged you, it is they who are conflicted--not you. If it were to be an eye for an eye, your "eye" would be not forming even a thought about the "adversary." This is true freedom.
OMG YES!!! It feels so good!!! I feel so much pressure/awareness inside myself when I am incongruent. The relief is is incredible.

All the kind-hearted and warm replies on top of that, have touched me so deeply!!!

You are so right about not judging those who have harmed you. I get it. When I sometimes share "the harm" he his done, people don't understand my lack of rage. My compassion and love runs deep. I appreciate all he taught me. We are all here as mirrors to one another. I feel for his being and his lack of knowing what love is in this life. To live a whole life not knowing what it is to truly care for another? That would be hell, to me. Thank you for the reminder and your kind words too!
 

LiveYourDream

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No pvssy pass from me.

This is the pattern that we read about every day in men's relationships. First, the lying. Then the confession once they can't contain it anymore. Then comes the "I'm a victim" sob story to soften up so as not too be judged too harshly.

Many men who come to this site are devastated inside and completely confused and clueless. There is a potential for damage when a confused man reads the advice of a woman posing as a man when he came here desperate for advice from his fellow men.

Although I do appreciate the confession (and by the way, I always thought your posts had a feminine vibe to them), the thing for you to do is to CLEARLY identify yourself as a woman in your profile and signature (after all, not all the men here are going to read this thread), and then participate as a woman here and there.

As far as I'm concerned, if you do that then I would be inclined to accept your apology and respect you for it. If not, then it's just words and your attempt to obtain the golden pvssy pass that many men here will be eager to gift you with.
When I hit post today, I honestly did not anticipate being welcomed to stay. I can't be anymore clear about the genuine-ness that I NEVER intended to hurt any man here, EVER!

It wasn't some heartless game of deception to me. I was really scared. I am not saying that makes it right. I am just letting you know that I really cared. If I was willing to write and post a 2 page essay as another pointed out, it's not because I got off on pulling one over on anyone. I could have easily started a new login instead or just disappeared. The apology was important for me and maybe for some of you. I also felt it was important to tell all of you because I imagined some of you likely suspected that I was a woman, and to confirm that you were right, allows you to reconcile that feeling.

I wasn't seeking some special ***** pass. I was coming to you, acknowledging that I screwed up, taking responsibility for it and asking forgiveness, human to human. I imagine an apology would be the same process man to man for something, just a lot less words. In this instance I happen to be a woman and you happen to be men. I wasn't expecting special treatment because I am woman. In fact I was expecting worse because of it. Clearly that was my error in thinking. I am sorry I doubted the way I would be received. I am doing the best I can. I am learning too.

I get that it is a privilege to be invited to remain! I truly do! Thank you! Thank you all!!!
 

LiveYourDream

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...the thing for you to do is to CLEARLY identify yourself as a woman in your profile and signature.
It is imperative that women on this site are identifiable.
Atom Smasher, Visions, Everyone else, as well...what do you think?

New girly avatar and I now identify myself in my location and signature for all to know I am a woman.
Is it clear enough? Like it?
 
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yungballa

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When I hit post today, I honestly did not anticipate being welcomed to stay. I can't be anymore clear about the genuine-ness that I NEVER intended to hurt any man here, EVER!

It wasn't some heartless game of deception to me. I was really scared. I am not saying that makes it right. I am just letting you know that I really cared. If I was willing to write and post a 2 page essay as another pointed out, it's not because I got off on pulling one over on anyone. I could have easily started a new login instead or just disappeared. The apology was important for me and maybe for some of you. I also felt it was important to tell all of you because I imagined some of you likely suspected that I was a woman, and to confirm that you were right, allows you to reconcile that feeling.

I wasn't seeking some special ***** pass. I was coming to you, acknowledging that I screwed up, taking responsibility for it and asking forgiveness, human to human. I imagine an apology would be the same process man to man for something, just a lot less words. In this instance I happen to be a woman and you happen to be men. I wasn't expecting special treatment because I am woman. In fact I was expecting worse because of it. Clearly that was my error in thinking. I am sorry I doubted the way I would be received. I am doing the best I can. I am learning too.

I get that it is a privilege to be invited to remain! I truly do! Thank you! Thank you all!!!

I don't mind that you are here. I think it'd be beneficial actually to see a female's perspective on these boards. (so as long as she doesn't go around the forums causing havoc, spreading lies & bullsh1t to men)

now, i have a question for you. i want to see your perspective on this since you are a woman.

you say you are capable of love?

men love women for who they are deep down inside; a man loves a women for her very essence; her being. basically, he will be with this girl he loves through thick and thin; he will build with her regardless what she can bring to the table for him. and as a man, i think this to be true. if i ever catch feelings for a female (rare as hell, with all these low quality females around me) it'll be for who she is.

now, its said that women don't love men the same way men love women. it's said that women love men only for the emotions that a man can arise in a woman and what the man can provide for a woman.

my question: do you think you are capable of loving a man for WHO HE IS, or can you only love him for what he provides? e.g. you've been with a man for 10 years but he loses his job home etc and he cant provide for you anymore. then, another man pops up and he can provide you emotions and he can feed you, cloth you, and is better than your man in every aspect; yet you have no history with him and you just met him.

honest answer please (i want to see female perspective) who do you choose? your loving husband of 10 years whom you've had a strong relationship with but he has lost all ways to provide for you, or this new man who can give you everything you want.

it all boils down to if you can love a man like you can love a child.
 

LiveYourDream

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The thing is, I can't really blame her. Sometimes I'll try to imagine what a woman thinks when she's reading all the 5hit posted here. I mean, there's some heavy duty testosterone hovering in the air on this forum. I'm much more willing to give her a pass because she didn't come into this forum swinging her arms like most of the women who pass through here. She's not coming in here thinking "I'm gonna show these so-called MEN a thing or two once I'm done with them!"

There's a lot of dudes here who have been screwed over by women, including myself. What it all boils down to is I'm not going to try and fvck her, so I have no problem with her hanging out as long as she's respectful. I have lots of female friends, so having a few on the forum doesn't bother me.

And if you want one more thing to add: At least it's not iqqi again :D
I appreciate that you and Tictac get this.

I am truly grateful to learn all I do here. At the same time, it's been a game changer for me. When men hit on me these days, it's hard not to reflexively see them through deeply questioning eyes. I do my best because now I really get the courage it can take to approach a woman.

Having read all the intents to pump and dump or deceive while spinning other plates still has taken a toll. It is hard to receive a man hitting on me, with a total blank slate, allowing his intentions and who he is, and our interaction, to be all that I respond to, having no pre-set defensiveness from all I have read here. I do my best to be kind, open, yet also aware.

I appreciate all the camaraderie that happens here. It's not generally a warm and fuzzy place for a female heart. Know that I appreciate it and the privilege just the same. Thank you for your compassion.
 
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Atom Smasher

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Atom Smasher, Visions, Everyone else, as well...what do you think?

New girly avatar and I now identify myself in my location and signature for all to know I am a woman.
Is it clear enough? Like it?
Yes... Two thumbs up from me! ;)
 

Lozboss

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Troll thread.
 

Atom Smasher

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I wasn't seeking some special ***** pass. I was coming to you, acknowledging that I screwed up, taking responsibility for it and asking forgiveness, human to human. I imagine an apology would be the same process man to man for something, just a lot less words.
Actually, EVERY woman - literally 100% - at least subconsciously expects the pvssy pass... it is deeply woven into our society.

This is not really women's fault... it is men's fault for allowing themselves to be vulnerable to it. All a man needs to do is see a woman shed a few tears and bang! INSTA-pvssy pass. This is one of the hardest things to eliminate from the blue pill mindset. I believe that it is hard-wired into us men to soften up when a woman sheds tears, and this worked for good until our contrived mess of a society got to where it has today. It is also hard-wired into women to cry to soften up the males around her. I don't fault them for this, but I do maintain that all women know subconsciously or consciously that this dynamic works for them. It's just part of being a woman.

Therefore when I talk about the "pass", I'm really talking to men to remind them how easy it is to fall into not holding women accountable if the woman triggers him with tears and vulnerability.
 

BeExcellent

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Cheers LYD. Hope your personal situation improves. Authenticity wins the day and agree 100% real love is really what humans desire. I stumbled onto this site researching BPD; the man I'm seeing's ex-wife has a horrid case of BPD. So does my mom, who is NPD/BPD/schizoaffective (I haven't interacted with her in years unless absolutely necessary - and then very focused and brief). Seeing what these men on this board have been through with crazy women is eye-opening. My Dad still feels sympathy for my mom, although he is happily remarried 30 years hence, and I see with my lover's ex the push-pull, the bizarre behavior and the effects on the kids (which I relate to as that was once me). The man I see is a great guy but gun-shy about women although he enjoys female company. Who can blame him. Just "be" in the moment and quit hashing out various what-if scenarios.

I always identified with my Dad, a very man's man alpha attorney who wasn't going to have any woman telling him anything. He is absolutely immovable in resolve and yet generous and kind to those close to him. I grew up hunting, golfing, holding the tools when he was fixing something and I always had boys for friends as a kid so I have always gravitated to male company and really feel most relaxed around men socially. The effects of the mom crazies I grew up with are dealt with (I have become very self-aware because I never want to be like my mother) and I channel very strong emotion into accomplishing goals and being introspective and self-validated.

My 2 longest tenured friendships from my youth are with platonic men. I cherish them and have enjoyed seeing them find success, love, and get through the rough spots in life.

If my occasional contributions here can help a man better himself or understand women, fabulous. It is also worthwhile seeing behind the male curtain a bit for my own growth and perspective. It helps me relate to my ex husband, to my teenage son, to my Dad, and to other gentlemen that I meet or know.

So again - Cheers!
 

LiveYourDream

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I don't mind that you are here. I think it'd be beneficial actually to see a female's perspective on these boards. (so as long as she doesn't go around the forums causing havoc, spreading lies & bullsh1t to men)

now, i have a question for you. i want to see your perspective on this since you are a woman.

you say you are capable of love?

men love women for who they are deep down inside; a man loves a women for her very essence; her being. basically, he will be with this girl he loves through thick and thin; he will build with her regardless what she can bring to the table for him. and as a man, i think this to be true. if i ever catch feelings for a female (rare as hell, with all these low quality females around me) it'll be for who she is.

now, its said that women don't love men the same way men love women. it's said that women love men only for the emotions that a man can arise in a woman and what the man can provide for a woman.

my question: do you think you are capable of loving a man for WHO HE IS, or can you only love him for what he provides? e.g. you've been with a man for 10 years but he loses his job home etc and he cant provide for you anymore. then, another man pops up and he can provide you emotions and he can feed you, cloth you, and is better than your man in every aspect; yet you have no history with him and you just met him.

honest answer please (i want to see female perspective) who do you choose? your loving husband of 10 years whom you've had a strong relationship with but he has lost all ways to provide for you, or this new man who can give you everything you want.

it all boils down to if you can love a man like you can love a child.
Let me start with a disclaimer. I will only speak from my own experience or my perception. I am not intending to speak for all women.

I appreciate that you want to understand women. It is false logic to default to the thought, because I am a woman, that ALL other women, necessarily experience love the same way.

my question: do you think you are capable of loving a man for WHO HE IS
I know I am. I have and I do. That is what loving is. I am aware that I also perceive and experience love in a way many do not.
The immensity of loving is so hard to put into words. For me loving is all encompassing. I experience my love of another, as a package deal so to speak. I love all of them. I will always have my preferences. I may not "like" particular habits or attributes of some kind, but that does not modulate my love for them. I love all of them, regardless.

I may not like aspects. I love all of them. I can even say that I don't like a person, and I love them absolutely.

Liking is not necessarily loving.
Loving is not necessarily liking.

Loving includes everything that another is, its all of them.

can you only love him for what he provides?
For me, these things do not go together. For me, loving someone is not about what someone can do for you. For me, loving is an outflow. It is not about getting something from someone else. It is not a barter for sex, lifestyle, or even another person's love in return. It is none of that.

What comes and goes based on circumstance, to me, is not love.

e.g. you've been with a man for 10 years but he loses his job home etc and he cant provide for you anymore. then, another man pops up and he can provide you emotions and he can feed you, cloth you, and is better than your man in every aspect; yet you have no history with him and you just met him.

honest answer please (i want to see female perspective) who do you choose? your loving husband of 10 years whom you've had a strong relationship with but he has lost all ways to provide for you, or this new man who can give you everything you want.
A woman is MASSIVELY unconsciously driven to seek security. (The majority do consciously as well) This influences her choices and behaviors in ways that can even be consciously illogical, to even her.

What is the innate attraction to an alpha vs a beta provider? One would logically think a beta provider has her needs covered. Innately, subconsciously, somewhere DEEP inside, is the sense that if the shlt hits the fan, a dinasour appears threatening her or her kids, it's the alpha who will have the internal fortitude to rise to the occasion and save them. The beta looks great on an ordinary day, but if danger really showed up, she doesn't perceive that the beta is going to step forward to save her. On some level, she resents feeling like she might have to 'man up' and even save him. I know that sounds harsh. Im not saying women are entitled to be saved or be provided for, I am just sharing my observations.

As for your example, I think values have shifted and people have become opportunistic. They make choices they believe serve themselves. It has nothing to do with love in my opinion.

Do women seek security? ABSOLUTELY!! It has nothing to do with love.

do you choose? your loving husband of 10 years whom you've had a strong relationship with but he has lost all ways to provide for you, or this new man who can give you everything you want.
I am going to expand beyond your question here. You can love someone and may need to leave because being with them is no longer healthy for you (addictions, abuse). Leaving isn't always about love or lack of.

I am not sure if your example is really about a woman no longer loving her man. Maybe she was always opportunistic and he and/or she knowingly or not, mislabeled that as love. Maybe he/she thought they had a "deal" of what love was going to be between them. He provides, she stays & provides sex, they have an unspoken agreement that ia what contentment and happiness and love is in their life. Until they or one of them realize it is not.

Perhaps your question is really about loyalty.

I need to wrap this up and get offline. The short story is, loving someone for ten years or any period of time, irrespective of providing for them, does not entitle one, to love in return. That's what I have for the moment.



 

LiveYourDream

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And no "pass" requested here.
Help me understand please...

You never make mistakes?
The women you allow in your world never make mistakes?
Humans are suppose to be perfect?
No one in your world openly admits to mistakes, owns them, apologizes, works to become a better person as a result?
 

BeExcellent

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I mean that I am accountable. That's all. My comment about that was in response to Atom Smasher's discussion of the ***** pass, which I don't need because I should be accountable. It was in no way a comment about you at all. No offense was intended.

Of course I make mistakes, of course women I know make mistakes, & nope, no one is perfect.

Over time I have messed up plenty in life. And I am accountable 100% for my decisions and repercussions thereof. What comes of that is experience and wisdom. Like you I am in my mid-40's and there are things from my experience that may benefit someone else. Part of wisdom and grace is to learn eventually that one does not have to learn everything for one's self, otherwise known as "the hard way."
 

yungballa

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Let me start with a disclaimer. I will only speak from my own experience or my perception. I am not intending to speak for all women.

I appreciate that you want to understand women. It is false logic to default to the thought, because I am a woman, that ALL other women, necessarily experience love the same way.


I know I am. I have and I do. That is what loving is. I am aware that I also perceive and experience love in a way many do not.
The immensity of loving is so hard to put into words. For me loving is all encompassing. I experience my love of another, as a package deal so to speak. I love all of them. I will always have my preferences. I may not "like" particular habits or attributes of some kind, but that does not modulate my love for them. I love all of them, regardless.

I may not like aspects. I love all of them. I can even say that I don't like a person, and I love them absolutely.

Liking is not necessarily loving.
Loving is not necessarily liking.

Loving includes everything that another is, its all of them.



For me, these things do not go together. For me, loving someone is not about what someone can do for you. For me, loving is an outflow. It is not about getting something from someone else. It is not a barter for sex, lifestyle, or even another person's love in return. It is none of that.

What comes and goes based on circumstance, to me, is not love.



A woman is MASSIVELY unconsciously driven to seek security. (The majority do consciously as well) This influences her choices and behaviors in ways that can even be consciously illogical, to even her.

What is the innate attraction to an alpha vs a beta provider? One would logically think a beta provider has her needs covered. Innately, subconsciously, somewhere DEEP inside, is the sense that if the shlt hits the fan, a dinasour appears threatening her or her kids, it's the alpha who will have the internal fortitude to rise to the occasion and save them. The beta looks great on an ordinary day, but if danger really showed up, she doesn't perceive that the beta is going to step forward to save her. On some level, she resents feeling like she might have to 'man up' and even save him. I know that sounds harsh. Im not saying women are entitled to be saved or be provided for, I am just sharing my observations.

As for your example, I think values have shifted and people have become opportunistic. They make choices they believe serve themselves. It has nothing to do with love in my opinion.

Do women seek security? ABSOLUTELY!! It has nothing to do with love.



I am going to expand beyond your question here. You can love someone and may need to leave because being with them is no longer healthy for you (addictions, abuse). Leaving isn't always about love or lack of.

I am not sure if your example is really about a woman no longer loving her man. Maybe she was always opportunistic and he and/or she knowingly or not, mislabeled that as love. Maybe he/she thought they had a "deal" of what love was going to be between them. He provides, she stays & provides sex, they have an unspoken agreement that ia what contentment and happiness and love is in their life. Until they or one of them realize it is not.

Perhaps your question is really about loyalty.

I need to wrap this up and get offline. The short story is, loving someone for ten years or any period of time, irrespective of providing for them, does not entitle one, to love in return. That's what I have for the moment.



Ah, thank you. With this post you've have really opened my eyes and forced me to think in a different way.

What I've realized from your post is that I can't put a woman's desire to feel secure together with her love for a man. I thought it would hand-in-hand; and I thought instead of a woman loving a man for who he is, she just loves the feelings of security he gives her.

So, just to be sure, do YOU as a woman think you are capable of loving a man to the extent of loving your own child? (if you have some, or were to have one)
 

LiveYourDream

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Eat my NvTS

We're not here to have touchy feely little conversations with the feminists.

LYD, as a man, my only interest as it pertains to a woman is how to get you from XYZ date venue back to my place.

I don't care where you went to college. I don't care what your middle name is. I don't care about how many cats you have, or about the cute thing she did last night that you just HAVE to tell me about.

Sure, I may nod my head and feign interest from across the table, but I'm really only imagining what you look like naked.

Ugly truth? Yes. But the truth, nonetheless.
I did not bring up the topic of love, yungballa did. He asked questions. I took the time to answer them as honestly as I could.

I was abundantly clear that what I shared was my personal experience and perception and NOT to be mistaken, for that of most or all women. I was clear that what most women seek is security, and has nothing to do with love, in my opinion.

I felt, perhaps according to you--mistakenly, the men here are already well defended against women, having had enough negative experiences, to intrinsically know to always proceed with their eyes wide open, with women.

As for your personal puzzy game/strategy, your life is yours to play however you like. I am not here to judge it.

I came here to learn. I stay because I am still learning. I offer insight or a reply if I feel it may be helpful. I have no agenda about anyone needing to be a particular way. Everyone is welcome to their own choices and experience.
 

LiveYourDream

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Ah, thank you. With this post you've have really opened my eyes and forced me to think in a different way.

What I've realized from your post is that I can't put a woman's desire to feel secure together with her love for a man. I thought it would hand-in-hand; and I thought instead of a woman loving a man for who he is, she just loves the feelings of security he gives her.

So, just to be sure, do YOU as a woman think you are capable of loving a man to the extent of loving your own child? (if you have some, or were to have one)
Yes, I have experienced unconditional love (as the unconditionality of love toward a child) with men. Understand, this is NOT common among either sex, in my experience. I fact, I believe it's quite rare.

Do not be mistaken, a woman may use the word love to describe all kinds of things, (security, loyalty, lust, infatuation, greed) that have nothing to do with love, in my opinion. They may wholeheartedly consider it love and speak as such. Do not mistake that when they use the word love, it refers to what love means to you.

Always best to look at actions above words.
 

yungballa

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Eat my NvTS

We're not here to have touchy feely little conversations with the feminists.

LYD, as a man, my only interest as it pertains to a woman is how to get you from XYZ date venue back to my place.

I don't care where you went to college. I don't care what your middle name is. I don't care about how many cats you have, or about the cute thing she did last night that you just HAVE to tell me about.

Sure, I may nod my head and feign interest from across the table, but I'm really only imagining what you look like naked.

Ugly truth? Yes. But the truth, nonetheless.
Shut the fvck up.

I don't give a fvck about what you here for; don't ever come at me with that bullsh1t. I simply asked her a question to see another perspective. Don't stick yourself in situations where you ain't needed, especially when you come here just tryna insult with your dumb ass. Also, surely I ain't a homosexual. I definitely wouldn't want to eat your nuts.
 
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