Do You Believe In Karma?

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Tenacity, your observation would be correct IF life were only one lifetime. Then the reciprocation for the "bad" not befalling upon ALL the wrong-doers would correctly affirm your belief. What IF we lived multiple lifetimes? Would your belief, then, be unfounded as you are not basing it upon all the facts? You could argue that we have no proof of "other" lifetimes. I counter that we have more proof of other "lifetimes" than we do to the contrary.

 

[Tenacity]

Legend,

But here's the thing, do you really think you can take people with "near death experiences" seriously? Think about this for a minute, what happens when a person actually dies? Their heart stops beating and then shortly after, their brain shuts off completely, correct?

Now, in your brain is basically where everything on this side of "life" happens, even when you are sleeping such as the dreams that you have. So what you see, taste, smell, hear, touch, dream, vision, when you walk, when you talk, when you breathe, etc, etc., everything that is being a HUMAN is dominated by the brain.

So an NDE can only function within the brain Legend, listen to the people giving their NDE account and they will talk about great emotions that they "felt" (brain function) and the different things they saw (brain function). The people were near death, they were not dead. So their hearts were still pounding which meant their brains were still working. Basically, what I'm saying is that ALL OF THAT was just in their damn head, it had to be Legend, based on how the brain operates.

Now, does this mean there's no heaven or hell? Not necessarily, I tend to believe there's a higher power, but what "religion" explains about the higher power makes absolutely NO SENSE. Such as how when you get to heaven, you are going to see (brain function) your dead family members. How in the hell do you SEE anybody when you are dead, if your brain is no longer functioning?

We are made up of matter obviously, which includes our body parts and brain, but we also are made up of ENERGY. When they refer to our "spirit" are they talking about our energy? Does our energy have a certain type of brain to it?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Religion is a man-made convention and contradictory, thus moot to the discussion. This would fall more under spirituality, not religion. However, you do presume that consciousness is solely attributed to the brain. To date, consciousness cannot be explained scientifically--nor recreated in any measure.

Doctor, Eben Alexander, a neurosurgeon---experienced a higher level of consciousness in his NDE when the part of the brain which controls thought and emotion was shut down completely. He warrants that consciousness operates outside of the brain.

Nonetheless, I don't possess such hubris to form unwavering beliefs without the complete picture. I just refuse to fall victim to forming beliefs based ONLY on what I can perceive with the five senses, knowing very well that these same five senses teach us nothing about how we were created, how consciousness operates, or what's beyond. All we have are testimonies. Hard to refute tens of thousands of testimonies of near-death survivors parroting similar experiences (some of which had neither heart nor brain activity and were medically dead). Unless testimonies or undisputable facts to the contrary appear, I err to the side of consciousness outside of the brain and a greater purpose than our human form could rationalize founded on incomplete facts and existential "appearances."

 

[Tenacity]

Legend,

The brain is a complex process, have you ever heard the saying, "my mind is playing tricks on me?" So you really believe the following:

- These people were medically dead (but not DEAD in terms of the brain has stopped)

- They left their bodies and went towards this BRIGHT light (heaven)

- Then this special "beautiful" angel lady was gliding them through this wonderful forest

- They seen their Aunt Emma, their Grandma Suzie, and Marilyn Monroe

- Then they were sent back to their bodies on the operating table

You really believe this? If so, can you explain:

- How did Aunt Emma, Grandma Suzie and Marilyn Monroe still LOOK in Heaven the way they did on Earth? Your look on Earth is based on a particular "age", which is based on "time", there's no time in Heaven (supposedly) so how could they have any particular "age"?

- How did Aunt Emma, Grandma Suzie and Marilyn Monroe's BODY get into Heaven? Wasn't their bodies supposed to be decomposing away in some casket somewhere? You know, like everybody else's body who is dead?

- Does this mean that there's PEOPLE in Heaven? You know at one point in time on Earth, there were no PEOPLE. So how can there be people in Heaven if at one point there was nobody on Earth? And if there are people in Heaven, how did they get there? God just snapped his fingers and they appeared? Does God pick particular people to go down to Earth to live for a "time" and then come back? How did the people get their genes if God just snapped his fingers and they appeared? Does God have vagina eggs in a basket with sprinkles of sperm that he scatters over top of them?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Medically dead means no heart or brain activity. If consciousness is present without the human brain (or a dead brain), then it exists outside of the human form.

If you were to read the thousands of reports, although a bifurcation between the human and spiritual form, both coalesce here in the Earth plane. As to remainder of your questions relating to God, creation, and purpose, if you are genuinely interested, examine the reports. Many answers there. Not sure how or why you deny the validity of thousands of testimonies as the only source of evidence when you have absolutely zero evidence to the contrary of after-life and body/soul amalgamation. Do you normally deny evidence and base your beliefs on bald opinions?

 

[Tenacity]

Well, all I'm doing is asking questions, I do believe there's a higher power or God based on intelligent design alone. I don't think the processes that we discovered through science just APPEARED, I think they were intelligently designed. Again, this is based on my own "logic" and ration.

The NDEs make no sense, I'm not denying that these people didn't see or feel something, what I'm wondering was if they were actually in "heaven" or not? Again, how can you see someone in heaven and they look as they looked on Earth during a particular time, if there's no time in heaven? How would someone's body get into heaven for you to see it?

You see the problem with believers (any type of believer, religious, spiritual, whatever) is that they don't really ask any questions. They don't do any critical analysis to try and piece this and that together. I'm NOT saying that you should be able to figure everything out in terms of Earth, Heaven and Hell, but you SHOULD be able to do some type of process of elimination in terms of what totally makes no sense.

For example, just like when you read the bible scriptures about how Adam was created from dirt and Eve came from his rib, can you tell me WHEN did this happen? Was this BEFORE or after the dinosaurs? The dinosaurs were here before the humans were, but the book of Genesis doesn't talk about them at all.

You see how when you ask questions, the stuff just gets confusing and makes no sense?

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Well, all I'm doing is asking questions, I do believe there's a higher power or God based on intelligent design alone. I don't think the processes that we discovered through science just APPEARED, I think they were intelligently designed. Again, this is based on my own "logic" and ration.

The NDEs make no sense, I'm not denying that these people didn't see or feel something, what I'm wondering was if they were actually in "heaven" or not? Again, how can you see someone in heaven and they look as they looked on Earth during a particular time, if there's no time in heaven? How would someone's body get into heaven for you to see it?

You see the problem with believers (any type of believer, religious, spiritual, whatever) is that they don't really ask any questions. They don't do any critical analysis to try and piece this and that together. I'm NOT saying that you should be able to figure everything out in terms of Earth, Heaven and Hell, but you SHOULD be able to do some type of process of elimination in terms of what totally makes no sense.

For example, just like when you read the bible scriptures about how Adam was created from dirt and Eve came from his rib, can you tell me WHEN did this happen? Was this BEFORE or after the dinosaurs? The dinosaurs were here before the humans were, but the book of Genesis doesn't talk about them at all.

You see how when you ask questions, the stuff just gets confusing and makes no sense?

When thinking only within our Earthly conditioning and thinking, you are correct that spiritual reports could appear nonsensical to an Earthly understanding.

I cannot profess to be a spiritual expert, but I'll take a crack at plausible, logical, explanations to your questions. I'm not professing the following is true; just offering viable answers that demonstrate that everything spiritual does not automatically equate to nonsensical:

Again, how can you see someone in heaven and they look as they looked on Earth during a particular time, if there's no time in heaven?

As in the spiritual form, concrete bodies do not exist, everything appears by abstract, by thought. So what you are seeing could be either what you want them to look like or what they want to look like. No time in heaven doesn't contradict how one wishes to appear in spiritual form, whether earthly young or old, whether earthly ugly or beautiful.

How would someone's body get into heaven for you to see it?

Bodies are not in heaven, as bodies are concrete forms. Heaven or lets say the spiritual realms comprise of only spiritual forms, thus no human bodies.

Does this mean that there's PEOPLE in Heaven? You know at one point in time on Earth, there were no PEOPLE. So how can there be people in Heaven if at one point there was nobody on Earth?

People as in humans in heaven, no. Spiritual forms in the spiritual realms, perhaps. Earth has time, and so there was a beginning. Thus, there should have been a time where no people existed on Earth, but who says that people (human forms) have to exist prior to or after a spiritual form. Could not the spiritual form have always existed, and humans came later, and some spirits amalgamated with the human form and others didn't?

And if there are people in Heaven, how did they get there? God just snapped his fingers and they appeared?

As human form does not exist in spiritual realms, you mean how did spiritual forms get into the spiritual realm, did God just snap his fingers and spirits were born? If God does exist, is this unreasonable?

Again, not claiming my answers are spiritual facts. Just demonstrating that there can be human "logic" within the spiritual reports if you look beyond present conditioning. At the end of the day, these reports are evidence. If you have evidence to the contrary, I'll be more than happy to examine and engage.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Legend,

As Tenacity said we KNOW that there are some very evil and very wealthy people who hurt many others to get ahead. We KNOW they live a life of luxury and comfort.

Different types become very financially well off. As well as the "evil" types are ones who simply are innovators or who make exceptional products. They are robbing or killing anyone,
and become very well off.

What you propose is something we do NOT know at all, and quite frankly there is little to no proof of.

Essentially, basing decisions on what *could* be or on what we do not know, is ridiculous when compared to decision making based upon things we DO know. Who cares if the evil people get punished in an afterlife, we could equally guess they do not.

I don't think evil is a prerequisite for becoming very rich. I don't even think it will guarantee success either.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

Well, all I'm doing is asking questions, I do believe there's a higher power or God based on intelligent design alone. I don't think the processes that we discovered through science just APPEARED, I think they were intelligently designed. Again, this is based on my own "logic" and ration.

The NDEs make no sense, I'm not denying that these people didn't see or feel something, what I'm wondering was if they were actually in "heaven" or not? Again, how can you see someone in heaven and they look as they looked on Earth during a particular time, if there's no time in heaven? How would someone's body get into heaven for you to see it?

You see the problem with believers (any type of believer, religious, spiritual, whatever) is that they don't really ask any questions. They don't do any critical analysis to try and piece this and that together. I'm NOT saying that you should be able to figure everything out in terms of Earth, Heaven and Hell, but you SHOULD be able to do some type of process of elimination in terms of what totally makes no sense.

For example, just like when you read the bible scriptures about how Adam was created from dirt and Eve came from his rib, can you tell me WHEN did this happen? Was this BEFORE or after the dinosaurs? The dinosaurs were here before the humans were, but the book of Genesis doesn't talk about them at all.

You see how when you ask questions, the stuff just gets confusing and makes no sense?

It is likely they were dreaming or their subconscious was working while they were "dead", and the images of these folks were from previous actual visualizations. IE: a picture they recall. They likely remember the people from their most vibrant years.

 

[Desdinova]

For example, just like when you read the bible scriptures about how Adam was created from dirt and Eve came from his rib, can you tell me WHEN did this happen? Was this BEFORE or after the dinosaurs? The dinosaurs were here before the humans were, but the book of Genesis doesn't talk about them at all.

You see how when you ask questions, the stuff just gets confusing and makes no sense?

The way I see the Bible is much like the way I see an autobiography. It's core is truth, but the embellishment and added fiction make it more interesting and valuable. I think much of the bible consists of stories that were meant to teach humankind lessons on how to conduct themselves in their daily lives. That doesn't mean that the Bible is a bad book. It established and defined the nature of men and women. Men were the leaders of the household, women were the caregivers. Some men had multiple wives. This all fits in with the nature of each gender. It happened because it worked.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Legend,

As Tenacity said we KNOW that there are some very evil and very wealthy people who hurt many others to get ahead. We KNOW they live a life of luxury and comfort.

What you propose is something we do NOT know at all, and quite frankly there is little to no proof of.

Essentially, basing decisions on what *could* be or on what we do not know, is ridiculous when compared to decision making based upon things we DO know. Who cares if the evil people get punished in an afterlife, we could equally guess they do not.

We know based on observation in this life:

• Some evil and wealthy people hurt others and get ahead.
• Some good and wealthy people help others and get ahead.

Conclusion: Good or evil, helping or hurting, does not equate to getting ahead (in the life).

Our "knowing" is based on observation. We know that some evil people get ahead by our observing this scenario numerous times in the Earthy plane. In the same way, by observing tens of thousands of testimonies, I "know":

• There is a supreme light being in control
• There is life outside the physical form
• There is an Earthly purpose, which encompasses learning life lessons and evolving
• We do reincarnate multiple times. In some of these incarnations, you may come severely disadvantaged to learn the lessons you failed to learn in previous incarnations.
  
• In higher spiritual realms, we are all inter-connected. Thus, what you do upon another, you do upon thyself.

It is likely they were dreaming or their subconscious was working while they were "dead", and the images of these folks were from previous actual visualizations. IE: a picture they recall. They likely remember the people from their most vibrant years.

When the brain ceases to function, one cannot "dream" as the subconscious is inoperative. Further, hard to contend that tens of thousands of NDE'ers had the same dream to specific facts that occur on the other end.

 

[Tenacity]

As in the spiritual form, concrete bodies do not exist, everything appears by abstract, by thought. So what you are seeing could be either what you want them to look like or what they want to look like. No time in heaven doesn't contradict how one wishes to appear in spiritual form, whether earthly young or old, whether earthly ugly or beautiful.

So are you saying that if I'm laying on a hospital bed dying at age 85, you are saying that I can say to the higher power/God: "Hey remember when I was 32 and had those abs? Hey, can you make me look like that in Heaven Father? Thanks, Father, you are the best!"

Then you are saying that everything in spirit form or heaven form, is basically confined to a thought? A thought? Don't you need a brain to formulate a thought? So there is a brain in heaven? Spirts have brains? Do you have ANYTHING to back this up with?

Bodies are not in heaven, as bodies are concrete forms. Heaven or lets say the spiritual realms comprise of only spiritual forms, thus no human bodies.

People as in humans in heaven, no. Spiritual forms in the spiritual realms, perhaps.

But based on what? Can you also tell me what is a spirit? When someone says they aren't religious but they are spiritual, what are they talking about? Usually when they explain it, they are trying to say they have a personal relationship with the almighty God which goes above the actual regulatory linings of the bible (religion), but then if that's the case, if they have a DIRECT line to God himself, why is their life usually so F'ed up? Did you know the most "spiritual" people are usually the ones with the most financial problems? Since they have a direct line to God, why doesn't God give them secrets on how to at least pay the light bill?

As human form does not exist in spiritual realms, you mean how did spiritual forms get into the spiritual realm, did God just snap his fingers and spirits were born? If God does exist, is this unreasonable?

I'm still trying to figure out what a spirit is? I believe there's a higher power due to intelligent design, I don't know what type of "entity" that higher power is. The higher power might just be ENERGY. The higher power might be a type of "entity" that we have yet to discover, I don't know?

I don't know "enough" to say it's all a joke, but I do know is that there's so many things that do not line up and so many things that make absolutely no sense that it's ENOUGH to no longer sit in some church and let this pot bellied Pastor just feed whatever garbage he wants to feed. Explanations need to be handed out instead of, "just have faith and believe it".

What's weird is that in science we have something called dinosaurs who were here YEARS before any human being ever got here, and the dinosaurs RAN the Earth. In the book of Genesis when God creates the heaven and the earth, then throws the animals in there, it never mentions dinosaurs, it talks about how he created Man to have watch over the earth and the animals. Why doesn't it mention the dinosaurs at ALL Legend? We have actual proof there were dinosaurs, we have portions of their body parts in museums all across the country.

Science doesn't create life, it helps to explain it. If any religion is accurate it would have to at least be congruent with the findings in Science.

 

[l_e_g_e_n_d]

Tenacity, some thoughtful questions.

Though, it would foolish for me to respond with bald assertions, unless we can agree on what the embodying evidence is. If we cannot agree on the evidence, then my and your contentions are simply conclusory, not evidenced, and thus moot.

Keep in mind, these testimonies do not contradict science. In fact, they help support science (i.e., string theory, the observer effect, free will theorem, quantun entanglement).Thus, we must start with the evidence. Are these testimonies admissible as evidence. If not, why? If so, I will answer all your questions from the data extrapolated from these testimonies.

 

[Tenacity]

Legend, I would say NDEs are not credible enough to be used as evidence because, quite frankly, they could just be dreams. People can have similar dreams and have similar dreams all of the time. Is it a little strange that the people reported similar visions, yes, but is that enough to say it's evidence of something in another realm though?

 

[NSX-R]

I believe in God but not as something that i have to ask from him to have. I think of Him as a parent that gave to it's child what it needed and now has to make use for. I'm 100% responsible for my life.
No, life is not either unfair or *****. It's fair and beautiful. Aristotle said " we are what we repeatedly do".
People see the difficulties as some kind of punishment to them or that life is unfair but no , everything is a challenge for your future self .

About karma? I do believe in it somehow. In my homeland are saying "if you do some good ,expect good to return back to you", the opposite works the same.

 

[CuddleJunkie]

From Chateau:
No matter how badly the first date went and how much she doesn’t want to hear from you, if you don’t call a girl for a second date it will leave her confused and less full of herself. You will have lowered her self-esteem and made it easier for the next man to nut inside her. The good karma this selfless act generates will return to you a hundred easy first dates that end the next morning.

lol

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I believe in God but not as something that i have to ask from him to have. I think of Him as a parent that gave to it's child what it needed and now has to make use for. I'm 100% responsible for my life.
No, life is not either unfair or *****. It's fair and beautiful. Aristotle said " we are what we repeatedly do".
People see the difficulties as some kind of punishment to them or that life is unfair but no , everything is a challenge for your future self .

About karma? I do believe in it somehow. In my homeland are saying "if you do some good ,expect good to return back to you", the opposite works the same.

God could be some advance species of "alien" who is 10,000 times more intelligent than us. And they let us live. Who knows for sure.

 

[Sprayarc]

Not in a supernatural way.

 

[The_flying_dutchman]

From what I've observed: Yes, Karma is absolutely REAL...

Everyone I've ever known that was a pr!ck, a slvt, a thief, a liar, a bum, or a scumbag has (eventually) gotten what they deserved. Just because retribution is dished out right away, doesn't mean that it won't come later on.... perhaps even 20 years later on, but keep in mind that if a man's retribution comes THAT LATE then the punishment will be much worse... I've seen it over and over again...

I think a lot of people dismiss karma because they don't witness it happening.... but it karma will happen whether or not we're present to see the retribution coming down on the offender....and it will keep doing its business whether or not we believe in it....

 

[Bible_Belt]

Every time I have ever had a vehicle break down, which has been a lot of times, some stranger has been there immediately to help me. I've gotten rides, people have used their AAA cards to get me free tows, and I've even been invited to stay with people that I have just met. Part of that is me being charming, but there is luck involved, too. The last time was just a few months ago. My truck died on a country road at midnight. Then two cute teenage girls showed up five minutes later and gave me a ride home.

Last week I was at Lowe's, and I came out to see the guy parked next to me with a dead battery. Someone had tried to help him briefly, but then bolted as I was coming out. He had a new car with the stupid charging posts under the hood and the battery in the trunk. It was snowing. He didn't have a coat on. We had to get enough juice in through the posts to let him get the key out of the ignition, which it wouldn't do for some stupid new-car security reason. Then finally we got the trunk open to get to the battery, and I was able to jump-start the car. He offered to buy some gas for me at the gas station, but I told him he didn't owe me anything. He was surprised. I shook his hand, wished him luck, and left.

My attitude was that I owed that guy something, because of all the nice things that strangers have done for me. I would like to think that me helping him that day will shape how he views other people in need in the future. That's karma.