Why do girls find artist musician types short term desirable

[st_99]

I was reading rollo's blog and came across a post about this subject

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/case-study-creative-intelligence/

but I still dont really get it. I mean, so you can draw or paint or play an insturment. Why does that make a vag wet? Is it because its a skill that directly arouses the senses (music: hearing, / art: visual)

so if i said, im an expert at computer science and can write code to create my own video game.. although a girl may understand thats an amazing talent, it doesnt not appeal to any of the senses. Or if I said, I manage 75 people at work and they directly report to me.. a girl may understand thats impressive but she cant taste, hear or see any of that.

thats my guess as to what may be happening..

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear St99,
Simple really,goes back to our Paleolithic past when Musos and Artists were in the Limelight....If you are a Young Woman,to sit around the campfire with the Man people were listening to,meant basking in the Sunshine of everyones adulation....I would include dancing here...A good Dancer,now, as in the past,will always pull Women.

 

[zekko]

I think I've heard Rollo refer to these artistic types as "alphas" before. I'm not sure I fully agree with that, but I can see the rationale in it. A lot of times the artist eschews the normal, society-approved way of earning a living, and pursues his art instead. Notice "M" in the study can't sell his paintings for very much money. So in a way, he's rebellious and thumbs his nose at society, doing what he wants instead, something that he is passionate about. That can be attractive to girls, especially young ones.

Musicians are much the same way, but they also have the added benefit of "leading" their audiences. When they perform, they are usually the center of attention, the life of the party.

Artists and muscians both often have entourages, or groups of interesting people who think highly of their art and give them respect. Their women get to be a part of something, invited into a new, exciting world. And there is always a possibility of riches if the artist is "discovered", however slim.

 

[jhl]

I was reading rollo's blog and came across a post about this subject

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/case-study-creative-intelligence/

but I still dont really get it. I mean, so you can draw or paint or play an insturment. Why does that make a vag wet? Is it because its a skill that directly arouses the senses (music: hearing, / art: visual)

so if i said, im an expert at computer science and can write code to create my own video game.. although a girl may understand thats an amazing talent, it doesn't not appeal to any of the senses. Or if I said, I manage 75 people at work and they directly report to me.. a girl may understand thats impressive but she cant taste, hear or see any of that.

thats my guess as to what may be happening..

One of the reasons I think is b/c they think, act, and look differently from the standard crowd.

In terms of novelty, It's the same concept when you see something novel on TV. Regardless of what it is if you see something you rarely see or never saw before, many times you'll start paying attention. That's the hook.

Girls seem to be much more prone to this type of behavior and you can confirm this when they look at fashion mags or when they go out to shop. If something "new" and stylish they will pay attention to it for a while even if they don't like it.

In terms of the way they think, many artists think outside of the box and are in a world of their own. They have their own "philosophy". Many are not bound to the rules of the system that most men live in and in fact...they are detached enough to a point where they feel they can give up or take a big hit monetarily for what they are passionate about. This is some sense, can be interpreted as a mega-alpha trait by some women.

I'm in no way downplaying your job/role and just using this an example because you conveniently provided a description about yourself, but in their lens, you can be seen as someone who is a slave of the corporate system and this would even apply to those making millions at investment banks. You describe your job as... "expert at computer science and can write code to create my own video game". That seems very technical to me and.....boring. Now I just pulled out a quotes of how an artist describes what he does:

1. "The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance."

2. Art is contemplation. It is the pleasure of the mind which searches into nature and which there divines the spirit of which Nature herself is animated.

3. Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it, we go nowhere.

Emotional porn at its finest. Girls will eat this sh*t up. This is probably especially true for those who are disgusted working for the corporate world and want to break free of it, but can't b/c they need a means to feed themselves.

I think you are thinking too logically when you are trying to figure this out. It's not about WHAT the artist does, but the emotions that he provides. Ever sentence they say, everything they describe, the way they stare into empty space..it just hits the women's senses and drives it up to levels that most guys cannot do.

I'm not an artist, but I have done philanthropic work in the past, made very very little money (despite coming out from top 10 undergrad and grad schools), all by my own choice in order to help people in third world countries. I had absolute convictions in what I did..and every person whether it was male/female saw that, told me that, and respected my decision. And girls? After my opener and talking to very beautiful, rich, girls, they just ATE that sh*t up. I swear I wouldn't have had a problem picking them up even if I said I was living off of my friends couch. This applies to a certain category of women, but trust me they are out there.

Also, I don't buy that you can't keep women in the long term if you're an artist. I just think that your life isn't total mess and you are keeping your sh*t together. If constant drug abuse, depression, alcoholism are there, no amount of emotional porn will keep the girl around forever.

 

[samspade]

On the most basic level, if a man creates something that is beloved by the masses (a song, a poem, a book, a script, a painting, a film, etc.) he has by proxy been elevated in status. Few men are worshiped the way women are, i.e. on a purely physical level. Even the man with the body of an Adonis has to prove himself, say, athletically. This is why women think of Fabio - a man famous solely for his idealized looks - as a punchline, but Benicio del Toro or Steven Tyler as "attractive."

The key to the arts and performing arts is that the "product" is shared and celebrated, which takes audacity on the part of the artist, another attractive trait. Most professions' results are measured by wealth, but an artist can pour his heart into something, show it to the public, and his notoriety will be just as attractive to a female as his wealth or lack thereof. That's not to say other men aren't as ambitious or audacious, but when an accountant saves a company thousands of dollars there is no audience to applaud him. His "value" must be demonstrated in other ways, usually the power he holds over other men and/or his ability to provide.

Just to emphasize: Playing guitar or drawing pictures alone won't get you recognized. A guy who plays guitar alone to himself won't get the same results as a a guy who pulls the guitar out among a group of friends and leads them in a few singalongs, or gets onstage at an open mic. The man who sketches women and keeps the sketches in a private file is not the same as the man who sends them to magazines, galleries, or even posts them online for all to see and critique. If you photograph women naked and keep the pictures for yourself, you're a creep. If you publish them and show you have a passion for art and beauty you'd like to share with the world, you're an Artist and a mensch. I'm not making light of any of this - that's just how it is.

 

[Iceberg]

I was reading rollo's blog and came across a post about this subject

http://rationalmale.wordpress.com/2012/06/11/case-study-creative-intelligence/

but I still dont really get it. I mean, so you can draw or paint or play an insturment. Why does that make a vag wet? Is it because its a skill that directly arouses the senses (music: hearing, / art: visual)

so if i said, im an expert at computer science and can write code to create my own video game.. although a girl may understand thats an amazing talent, it doesnt not appeal to any of the senses. Or if I said, I manage 75 people at work and they directly report to me.. a girl may understand thats impressive but she cant taste, hear or see any of that.

thats my guess as to what may be happening..

Well, I think a good portion of the population is just boring, passion-less people. They're content to come home, watch some sports, drink a Bud Light, and pay the bills. Thats the "norm."

The artist feels a passion for what he does. And passion isn't a common thing.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think I've heard Rollo refer to these artistic types as "alphas" before.

Not necessarily. Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic. There are Alpha artists like JIm Morrison and Jackson Polack, and these tend to be the more memorable and exceptional examples, but their art didn't make them Alpha. They expressed Alpha in their art.

To answer the OP's question, creative intelligence was / is a 'selected for' evolutionary species-survival trait, insofar as it applies to women being cued of a man with an adaptive capacity to come up with novel ideas that will benefit her and her offspring in adverse conditions. The caveman with the smarts to create a shelter to keep her and their children dry in a storm is sexually preferable to the caveman who expects them all to sleep in the mud.

The downside of this, and pertaining to your computer skills example, is that women are really only interested in what they can immediately appreciate in a man's performance. Being a notable artist has developed into a status that grants social proof, but that 'art' needs to be something a woman has an appreciation for in order for it to be attractive.

Thus being a comic book artist doesn't carry the same gravitas that being a modern art painter does if she has no motivated interest in comics. Likewise the cute goth girl into screamo music will have less motivated interest in a guy who plays folk music.

 

[iqqi]

Well, I think a good portion of the population is just boring, passion-less people. They're content to come home, watch some sports, drink a Bud Light, and pay the bills. Thats the "norm."

The artist feels a passion for what he does. And passion isn't a common thing.

This.

Also so many people completely lack creativity or how to think outside of the box. A man that can do so is very attractive and interesting. Read the Fingz post about bringing a girl into your world, he talks a lot about it there.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30513

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=41738

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37710

You are welcome.

 

[samspade]

Not necessarily. Alpha is a state of mind, not a demographic. There are Alpha artists like JIm Morrison and Jackson Polack, and these tend to be the more memorable and exceptional examples, but their art didn't make them Alpha. They expressed Alpha in their art.

I think you are partly right. However there are a lot of rock stars (using them as the most obvious examples) who carry the "Alpha" image but to a man are or were decidedly Beta. (See: Lennon, John.) The Alpha perception comes from their position on stage or being front and center with girls screaming. Attention begets attention. If they are successful enough they gain a huge advantage before they even speak a word to a woman in person.

Not only that, they don't necessarily express Alpha in their art; quite the opposite. A rock star can sing a song about how he'll die without the love of some specific woman he sees as a goddess, and still pick and choose the groupies he'll hang with that night. Do you think David Ruffin of the Temptations had a problem laying women who heard him sing "Ain't Too Proud To Beg"? Those same sentiments are big no-no's in the DJ world of mere mortals. Artists get away with expressions of self-deprecation and inferiority precisely because their station in life is in reality far higher, owing to their profession. Success and recognition are an emboldening combination; they offer sexual options, which tend to eradicate neediness.

 

[MatureDJ]

However there are a lot of rock stars (using them as the most obvious examples) who carry the "Alpha" image but to a man are or were decidedly Beta. (See: Lennon, John.)

I think you are mistaking Lennon for the other primary Beatle, McCartney. Lennon was definitely alpha.

 

[samspade]

I think you are mistaking Lennon for the other primary Beatle, McCartney. Lennon was definitely alpha.

Yeah you're right. I stand corrected. He had great a-hole game and was de facto leader of the group. His wives also put up with his screwing around. Yoko even told him to get it out of his system before he could come back home.

(Marrying Yoko and letting her ruin the Beatles definitely takes him down a few notches though.)

Lennon probably woulda done all right had he never been a rock star, though nowhere near on the same scale.

Paul was less "beta" than we think, but in the Beatles' pecking order he was definitely #2. His on stage persona was approval-seeking versus Lennon's looking-down-his-nose body language.

 

[Rubirosa]

I think that there's alot of inaccurate observations in this thread. At one time I was a performing musician....Granted, I had a day job, but we (the band) played loads of gigs, and were even played on a major FM station's local talent showcase.
If someone is passionate about their music, social activity takes a back seat. When I was 19, I was practicing my guitar for up to 6 hours a day. Other times I was reading biographies of musicians or guitar magazines. Needless to say I was not developing game.
I think that most musicians are the sensitive artist type....kind of the opposite of machoness. I can think of very few "macho-alpha" musician types....Frank Sinatra and zakk Wylde are the only 2 that come to mind right now
John Lennon ? Are you kidding ? Brilliant artist, but he turned into the the most feminized dude on the airwaves (He was kind of a macho guy up til about 1966). However, he soon fell under the manhating Yoko's spell.
I can think of very few times where simply holding a guitar onstage got me laid. The game that I slowly learned (not to mention my dashing good looks ha ha ) is what got me chicks.
Although Istill pick up my guitar sometimes and play Flamenco, I've left the sensitive artist persona long ago......I like very feminine women, and those types kind of gravitate towards more macho guys. I do full conatct Karate and lift weights now.........I seem to like myself more as a MAN this way

 

[AW1983]

I do full conatct Karate and lift weights now.........I seem to like myself more as a MAN this way

Ouch. As a fellow musician it would appear on the surface you sold out to something that was perceived as more manly by women. Bummer. But correct me if I'm wrong.

I have successfully skirted the line between macho man and sensitive musician type because I'm a natural a-hole, but also a talented singer/songwriter. Combine these two and it's a recipe for awesome. Doesn't have to be either/or. Then again we are at rather different places in our lives. A 46 yo dude still trying to play rock and roll in an original band and get signed usually comes off as...sad? Idk.

In regards to the OP, something that no one has really touched on is that art is primarily based in emotion/feeling rather than thought/logic. Obviously this is the default operating protocol for women in regards to perception and communication, so they're attracted to a masculine dude who's "sensitive side" comes out veiled productively in art, instead of being a whining AFC wienie.

 

[Lexington]

Artists have a lot of success with women because they move them emotionally. This is what really gets a woman's panties wet.

A woman can appreciate the skill and talent of an engineer or a surgeon on an abstract level. But that's not going to make her laugh or cry. On the other hand, a scrawny, tattooed, drug-addicted musician can make her experience powerful emotions. On a purely sexual level (short term), the musician wins.

 

[st_99]

interesting reply's. what really stood out to me was that massive 89% number on the one choice if u are to believe survey. In life you generally can't get better than a 65% consensus on anything.

So why didnt a portion select the guy with the 20 million for short term? think about all the crazy parties and jet setting to exotic places and eating at the fanciest resturaunts. how the heck can choice "R" get the least almost NO picks? It doesnt make any sense.

I mean, what are these girls expecting to do with this short term partner? Sit around and stare at freaking paintings all day with a broke a$$ artist? LOL. What does this girl expect to do once she has seen all his art 10x over? Then what?

Something tells me the results are bvllsh!t. If these were real guys lined up and all looked the same with the job/money/talent being what the survey said. I would bet any amount that 1 guy would not get chosen 89% of the time.

but idk, i could be wrong.

 

[Rubirosa]

Ouch. As a fellow musician it would appear on the surface you sold out to something that was perceived as more manly by women. Bummer. But correct me if I'm wrong.

I have successfully skirted the line between macho man and sensitive musician type because I'm a natural a-hole, but also a talented singer/songwriter. Combine these two and it's a recipe for awesome. Doesn't have to be either/or. Then again we are at rather different places in our lives. A 46 yo dude still trying to play rock and roll in an original band and get signed usually comes off as...sad? Idk.

In regards to the OP, something that no one has really touched on is that art is primarily based in emotion/feeling rather than thought/logic. Obviously this is the default operating protocol for women in regards to perception and communication, so they're attracted to a masculine dude who's "sensitive side" comes out veiled productively in art, instead of being a whining AFC wienie.

I didn't sell out. The music thing was a goal I had when I was younger. Once I reached it (being in a profesional band, airplay, ....), I scartched the itch and was able to leave it behind. As a guitarist I was pretty good, but I never considered myself a natural musician. I had great chops, but I didn't consider myself a stellar talent. This stuff happened when I was in my 30's when I was already a parent, divorced, and with a career....I already had a comfortable life.
Music will never leave me....I can't imagine never playing....I pick up the guitar whenever the mood hits.....sometimes I don't touch it for days.

I am not a natural "badass" either. I was raised around my mom and sisters (Dad worked alot ) so I didn't have that rough element that comes from macho households.
Through sheer force of will, I have tortured my body through Kyokushin Karate, often sparring with more advanced, tougher guys, and I like the feeling this life test has given me. I even fought in a full contact tournament. It was amazingly brutal, but I did it !!! The mental toughness I have gained adds more to my positive self image than being able to hit notes on a guitar neck. I think that women might say they want the sensitive guy, but I think they really want someone who is confident against life's challenges.

In conclusion, I'm a guy that loves fashion, music and art, but I feel more complete as a man by cultivating the traditional male ideal of masculinity. Being tough with words is nothing....you gotta get in there and slam........Osu !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GQ Scott]

Quite simply put I think it's because they emotionally appeal to the women, instant gratification if you will.

 

[TonyBaloney]

Jagger - Musician - Alpha - pvssy non stop for 50 years in the Stones

 

[Rubirosa]

Jagger - Musician - Alpha - pvssy non stop for 50 years in the Stones

Yes and no. As an artist....a legend. The record speaks for itself. He's the Alpha of the Stones......
However
In the 60's, he played domestic house with single mom Marianne Faithfull
In the 70's, his wife Bianca cheated on him with Ryan O'Neil
In the 90's, he fell victim to a gold digging Brazlian who now gets $40K a month in child support from him stemming from a single one night stand
Do not confuse getting tons of women with Alphaness

 

[Jitterbug]

As Pook said, men see women as women, women see men as worlds (look that up in the Book of Pook, he wrote it so well).

The artist creates a fantasy world of emotions and beauty that women want to lose themselves in for a while. Sex with the artist is the woman's vehicle & ticket to travel that world.

IMO it's not all that relevant whether the artist himself is alpha or beta, in terms of getting the poon. The alpha / beta mindset only determines if the artist will be used and discarded by the woman, or the other way around.