Why are good men so hard to find?

[Trump]

The whole article is garbage after the sentence “single women in their early to mid 30s.’’ If it said “early to mid 20s”, it would have a much stronger point.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/why-are-good-men-so-hard-to-find/article36365252/

"Good husband material doesn't occur naturally, but is instead the product (in part) of socialization, development, and social control," Mr. Regnerus writes. "n the domain of sex and relationships men will act as nobly as women collectively demand."

As long socialization, development, and social control doesn’t prevent the husband from

1) being the best man he can be
2) paying the rent
3) being legally and emotionally obligated

 

[IKO69]

This is all you have to read, "Spend a little time with single women in their early to mid-30s, and you'll be grateful you're not one of them. The relationship scene is even more dismal today than when I was their age. All the women want serious relationships that lead to marriage, but many of the men they meet do not. "

Immediately turning around an shifting the blame on men....why would men want to marry those women? They are over the hill and used up. What were those 30 to mid 30 year old women doing when they were in their 20's? The women that are worth something are almost always locked down in their 20's and a lot have children during that time. The women discussed in the article are the one's that probably overplayed their hand and now they are mad. I don't feel bad. Chances are when things were good they would laugh at men and break their hearts like it wasn't ****.

There are some exceptions; some women do marry at 30 and i've known a few. They had to delay it a bit because of career goals or things like that....but guess what? Almost all of them had been engaged during the process, sometimes a few years. It is really strange, especially when the woman looks somewhat attractive, to be single and never married by the time she si in her 30's. To be marriage material a woman literally just has to look good and be agreeable and have basic household skills....how hard is that?

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

This chick makes the mistake of thinking men can be objectively defined as good or bad.

What she (and all the dudes here) really mean is:

Why, among all the men who are ATTRACTED TO ME AND WOULD DATE ME, are there so many men that I am not attracted to?

Most dudes here have the same problem.

They only can date women who WOULD DATE them, but they don't want any of those women, so they reframe the problem from being about THEM, to being about the marketplace in general.

Once THAT POINT (it's not me, it's the market) is made, then they can spend article after article (or post after post) finding all kinds of interesting social and economic theories why that is.

 

[The Duke]

I agree with most of what the author had to say. Kind of nice to see. It tied all of the issues together from a sociological perspective.

When women have 50 dudes showing interest from their dating app inbox, I have a hard time feeling bad. I call that the inability to make good choices if you can't get what you want. They need to stop using their "feelers" to judge men by. Start using some rational though processes instead of vagina tingles and they'll select better men.

 

[mrgoodstuff]

I agree with most of what the author had to say. Kind of nice to see. It tied all of the issues together from a sociological perspective.

When women have 50 dudes showing interest from their dating app inbox, I have a hard time feeling bad. I call that the inability to make good choices if you can't get what you want. They need to stop using their "feelers" to judge men by. Start using some rational though processes instead of vagina tingles and they'll select better men.

What's a "good" man?

 

[resilient]

Those tingles tho...

 

[The Duke]

@mrgoodstuff - a guy that has "good" in his name of course!

I thought @resilient made a pretty good list on another thread that conveys what a good man is. Its a unique way of applying it here, but I think it holds water.

When I finally accept myself 100% and all my human imperfections.
When I successfully complete my career transition.
When I have medical initials attached to my last name.
When I finally internalize IDGAF.
When I don’t care if I make as much as the next guy.
When I don’t care about the competition in game and the professional world.
When I don’t give a crap if a main plate or regular plate moves swiftly on to another guy, ex, Chad, Tyrone, or next beta.
When I don’t care about getting ghosted, ignored, or blocked on social media or OLD.
When I don’t give a crap about monitoring unpredictable interest level.
When I don’t care if I ever get remarried or resettle down with someone.
When I stop attracting AWs, narcs/covert, women with guys only friends, toxic, etc.
When I attract a feminine, family, and spiritual-minded woman.
When I meet someone who’s willing to invest in me just as much as I’m willing to invest in them.
When I’m able to walk away from disrespect without remorse after trying to salvage a bad relationship.
When I’m happy with or without a woman or women in my life.
When I’m happy with my guitar musician development and hobbies in general.
When I’m happy with my career and personal development.
When I’m happy with health goals (weight, bf%, cardio, lifting).
When I’m happy with my social spheres.
When I accept full responsibility for my life and choose to make the best of it no matter what comes my way.

Guys that are this have far more choices in the dating world than those who don't. I'd say the majority of men are not this!

 

[resilient]

Thanks @Howiestern ... My list is the good I've been pulling from this forum lately and private conversations I've had with some mature DJs. It's what I'm striving towards. Also, I feel like all DJs should be working on the above statements in some form or another to internalize Don Juan.

Our self improvement is what sets us apart from other pickup, MGTOW, incel, or whatever men's forums there are out there. We're men doing our best to take accountability of our actions and improve. Women are a part of that, yet certainly not the goal state.

It's not easy. Rome wasn't built in a day and it's a continuous process. Even the best guys on this forum makes mistakes, no one's perfect.

The list is something I work at everyday. I have days where I feel like I take two steps forward, one step back or admittedly lazy. I have no one else to blame but me if I'm not giving it 100% that day.

Nice guys just want to play the victim card and keep repeating the same mistakes with women thinking they'll get a different result with different woman. That's insane.

 

[ohrein]

Inter-gender dynamics is a multi-variate equation and she has a point about the state of society. Men traditionally had a valuable role as hunter and protector, then as farmers and protectors up to the fifties where it was providing wealth for food and protection, to today in which men have no defined role in society anymore. The only thing men and women can't get by themselves is sex. Since relationships have traditionally been valued on economic terms and since that is still in part a subconscious process (hypergamy) for women, and because women have equal earning potential to men, all that is left is sex and companionship.

It's a strange era in which we really need to redefine relationships for ourselves to find some new values in them. Since they no longer need to be pragmatic, they need to be focused on ideals. Something like companionship or spiritual value. Does your relationship add value to your life in that way? Do the two of you push each other to become better versions of yourselves?

However, people do not operate under that paradigm which is why the golden advice is always to become the best version of yourself and treat women as additions to your life rather than your life revolving around them. Hypergamy even in the limited sociological sense is still in full effect and since most women in their twenties and thirties out earn the average man in their twenties and thirties, there are literally no men for them to date.

It's easy to blame Feminism and there is some truth to that, but at the end of the day, complaining about how things are is useless. Women and men both need to adapt to the new playing field and for a whole swath of women that means facing some tough realities about their expectations of men both consciously and subconsciously. It means women need to seriously question whether their sexual freedom is good for them in the long run. Men who cannot be in the upper echelon need to provide value in other ways while simultaneously understanding they are being short changed on the dating market, keeping their eyes open for women who overvalue themselves.

It will be interesting to see how this continues to evolve. Looking at grass eaters in Japan, MGTOW in the western world and feminism, there's some crazy changes coming. But the old paradigm of a man working a job and starting a family and living a white picket fence American dream style life is dying. It's time to adapt.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

"Good husband material doesn't occur naturally, but is instead the product (in part) of socialization, development, and social control," Mr. Regnerus writes. "n the domain of sex and relationships men will act as nobly as women collectively demand."

As long socialization, development, and social control doesn’t prevent the husband from

1) being the best man he can be
2) paying the rent
3) being legally and emotionally obligated

This is wrong. It's simply up to men to first stop following after women like puppy dogs, and then start to lead. The whole problem is not the standards women have, or do not have, but a lack of leadership on the man's part. And as for nobility, it is a masculine virtue.

There is the idea in this article that men need to be 'domesticated'. But this is the exact problem. Men first need to realize their freedom, and then see their own interests coinciding with the greater good. This is a rational development of not only the individual, but society.

 

[MatureDJ]

Because too many of us are too short.

 

[ChristopherColumbus]

A good man is not a [socially] well-adjusted man. Often this kind of man becomes subservient to a society gone wrong [think the 'banality of evil']. A good man is one with rational ideals that may at times help to build society, and at other times, help correct, criticize, or even resist it.

Our society seems so hopeless now because there are not enough good men of this ilk. A good man first has to have a conception of the Good, of the Good Life.