What do you guys think about this situation?

[DonJuanna]

Hi, I'm a long time lurker and I'm very interested in the general ideology espoused on this board- that feminism and other social/legal changes have given women a huge amount of sexual freedom at the expense of men, that men who in the past would of found suitable partners are now consigned to loneliness and frustration, that young women in particular now feel free to spend their time chasing after the most attractive guys, while less appealing guys are cast to the sidelines, that we are returning to a disastrous "rule of the jungle", etc.

So I thought I would share my particular situation with you guys and see what you think of it.

I'm a 26 year old woman, generally considered attractive. Currently I am going out with a man who, until he met me, was completely homosexual and had no interest in women. I was very attracted to him so I convinced him to sleep with me, he liked it, and eventually we ended up in a long term relationship. It's an open relationship, and he occasionally hooks up with other guys, but honestly since I'm getting it from him I feel no desire to sleep with other men. I'm very happy with this relationship.

My question for you guys is, do you consider it an abdication of my civic duty to devote myself to a (mostly) homosexual man when there are so many lonely straight guys out there? Instead of pursuing the man I was attracted to, should I have suppressed my interest in him and looked for a straight guy who I might not have found as attractive, because the straight guy "needs" heterosexual sex in a way my boyfriend doesn't?

Also, would you guys prefer that we live in a society where I was shamed or stigmatized for my interest in a gay man, and pushed instead to date or sleep with a more "suitable" heterosexual?

If you have any more questions about the situation, I'm happy to answer them.

 

[Joe Stud]

Wow, intelligent lady. I say do what your heart tells you. If you are happy with this man, more power to you. I would advise getting tested, and working something out with him as far as protection against HIV, etc.
But again, if you are happy, thats all that matters in the big picture. Anyone who tries to object to you being with this man in lieu of a 100% heterosexual guy... remind them that there are 3 billion females on earth, there's no shortage.

 

[DonJuanna]

Thank you for the compliment, Joe. I wrote this post because there seems to be a strain of thought on this forum that runs along the lines of "Women are too entitled now, they are using their new freedom in a way that's fundamentally destructive to the social order, and they should alter their behavior for the sake of the greater good"-- and I feel like my relationship is a perfect example of that kind of "socially destructive behavior" that many people on this board object to.

I don't believe it's a problem that I'm "out of the running" for the time being in a particular way that is only possible because of social changes in attitudes towards women and homosexuals.

However, I feel some people on this board object to those changes, at least abstractly. I was hoping to engage some of those people about the practical ramifications of their beliefs. But you're completely right, there's no shortage of women.

 

[Igetit!]

I'm a 26 year old woman, generally considered attractive. Currently I am going out with a man who, until he met me, was completely homosexual and had no interest in women.

I have a few questions if you don't mind...

So you say this guy was completely homosexual. Ok,how long had you known this guy before you started seeing him?

And during the time you had known him before you two started "dating",are you sure he never did or said anything that might be considered as interest towards you?

I was very attracted to him so I convinced him to sleep with me,

Alright,2 more questions here...

You say you were "very attracted" to him. WHY? What about him made you so attracted to him? Was it his physical appearance,or something else?

Could you PLEASE give a CONCRETE answer instead of telling us "how you feel" on this question?


Also,what do you mean by you "convinced him" to sleep with you?

I'm VERY CURIOUS to hear how an "attractive" woman goes about convincing a guy to sleep with her.

That's a new one for me.

he liked it, and eventually we ended up in a long term relationship. It's an open relationship, and he occasionally hooks up with other guys, but honestly since I'm getting it from him I feel no desire to sleep with other men. I'm very happy with this relationship.

So you're happy in a relationship with a gay man who occasionally sleeps with other men.

O....kay. Question here:Would you have a problem if it were other women he were sleeping with instead of men?

My question for you guys is, do you consider it an abdication of my civic duty to devote myself to a (mostly) homosexual man when there are so many lonely straight guys out there?

No,I do not.

Like Joe Stud said,there's no shortage of women.

And besides,what do you think you can do? Who do you think you are?

Yes,there are a lot of lonely men out in the world. What,did you have some plan to fix that or something? Were you going to go from house to house spending time with and dating them all,but got derailed by this "relationship" you found yourself in?


While your concern is admirable,it's not YOUR JOB to keep men from being lonely,it's theirs.

Believe it or not,there are lonely women in the world too.

Instead of pursuing the man I was attracted to, should I have suppressed my interest in him and looked for a straight guy who I might not have found as attractive, because the straight guy "needs" heterosexual sex in a way my boyfriend doesn't?

Save your pity lady. You don't "owe" anybody anything. You're supposed to pursue a relationship with someone because that individual makes YOU HAPPY,not because you feel sorry for him and don't want him to be alone.

Also, would you guys prefer that we live in a society where I was shamed or stigmatized for my interest in a gay man, and pushed instead to date or sleep with a more "suitable" heterosexual?

What's the real reason you made this thread?

Why are you asking us if we think you should pursue men who you're not interested in,but who are lonely vs. a man who you're attracted to who happens to be gay?

You're asking that question as if you really cared about our opinions.

What,if we say you shouldn't date gay men and should go out there and find some guy who you don't like nor are attracted to,are you going to break off the relationship with this gay man you're seeing (who makes you very happy) and go start seeing someone you truely DON'T WANT simply to have one less "lonely guy" in the world?


Get real lady.

You don't owe anybody anything. Heck,if you hadn't made this thread,none of us would even know you even exist.


Stop trying to "save the lonely guys" in the world and just live your life.

 

[DonJuanna]

Hey, ok, so before I answer your specific questions about how I met the guy, etc, I thought I'd get into the "real reason" I posted this thread. The real reason, basically, is that whenever I look at this forum I see posts along these lines:

"Now that the old social constraints aren't in place, women can follow their natural desire to by hypergamous, which means a lot of men can't get any action at all."

and

"It isn't fair that all the attractive young women are pursuing a handful of especially attractive guys. By the time they get older and are willing to give us ordinary guys a shot, the women are less attractive. So ordinary guys miss out on getting to experience women at their most attractive."

Statements like these suggest that (some of) you guys think that women, enabled by feminism, are acting unfairly towards straight men. The point of my post is that I don't think this attitude holds up in individual instances. I am exactly the feminist-enabled, non chance-giving, stuck up girl that is demonized on this board- and furthermore I'm choosing to bestow what could be my last years of attractiveness on someone who would be just as happy sleeping exclusively with men. But I don't think I'm being unfair- and Igetit, you don't seem to think I'm being unfair, and nobody else has posted to this thread to tell me i'm being unfair.

I think all this talk about women having some kind of princess syndrome, and feeling overly entitled makes perfect sense in the abstract. But in reality, what would you want women to actually do about it? Date men they aren't attracted to?

I completely agree with you that it's the "guy's job" to find a sexual partner, if he wants one (just as it's the girl's job to find a sexual partner if she wants one).

However, I think that idea is in total contradiction to the talk on this boards about how society has tilted the balance of power in favor of women, how women now have some kind of princess syndrome, how feminism has caused men to be denied relationships with desirable women. If you believe those ideas, why aren't you telling me that I should be working to undue the damage of feminism in my personal life? I don't understand how someone could believe that there is an ongoing grave injustice, but shy away from telling individual people how to remedy that injustice in their personal lives. That's why I think the whole philosophy of "feminism has made it harder for men to get laid" is unsustainable.


Alright, onto the details:

So you say this guy was completely homosexual. Ok,how long had you known this guy before you started seeing him?

I've known him since my freshman year of college- 8 years, I think. We've been friends for about four years.

And during the time you had known him before you two started "dating",are you sure he never did or said anything that might be considered as interest towards you?

Yeah, I'm sure. I flirted with him a lot, and he never was into it, and I asked him several times to sleep with me and he refused. Also we slept in the same bed a bunch of times and he never got aroused.

Question here:Would you have a problem if it were other women he were sleeping with instead of men?

Honestly, I have no idea. My best guess is that I would still be comfortable with it, but less so.

Save your pity lady

Honestly, every time I read this board I'm overwhelmed with pity. There are so many guys on here who are missing out on one of the most important experiences in life, loving someone and being loved back. I have no doubt that in the 1950s, most of these guys would be married by now and certaintly happier then they are today. I really think it's a serious problem that women and men have become so alienated from each other and laden with expectations that a critical mass of guys is developing who can't get laid at all, or only rarely. But I can't for the life of me understand how undoing feminism would help them.

 

[DonJuanna]

Oh yeah, and topic of why I'm attracted to him... I don't know- which I think it fits with the theory floating around on sosuave, that women just feel drawn to certain guys and they don't understand why. I could say it's because he's clever and well-read, but there's plenty of clever, well-read guys that I don't feel a thing for.

And when I say I convinced him to sleep with me, I mean that one night I was crashing at his house, sleeping in his bed because he only has one bed, and he got an erection. I said, "Look, you're hard, why don't you just stick it in me." He said, "No, I'm really gay, I don't want to" but a couple minutes later he changed his mind and did it anyway. And liked it, to his surprise.

 

[Igetit!]

Oh yeah, and topic of why I'm attracted to him... I don't know- which I think it fits with the theory floating around on sosuave, that women just feel drawn to certain guys and they don't understand why. I could say it's because he's clever and well-read, but there's plenty of clever, well-read guys that I don't feel a thing for.

I don't know why I even bothered asking you this question,I should have known I wouldn't get a simple,CONCRETE answer like I predicted.

And when I say I convinced him to sleep with me, I mean that one night I was crashing at his house, sleeping in his bed because he only has one bed, and he got an erection. I said, "Look, you're hard, why don't you just stick it in me."

Are you serious? You actually said that to him? Wow.

I almost don't know how to respond to that.


Even though I can't STAND your "holier than thou" attitude thinking you have the power to just go around the world stamping out the lonliness of men,I give you props on your honesty here.


So you told him to "stick it in you". Unfreakin'believe-able. :crackup:

And I bet you're the same girl who would turn your nose up at a guy and accuse him of being inappropiate if he told you you had a nice a$$ or whistled at you in public too,huh?


Oh well. Welcome to the forum.

 

[DonJuanna]

Haha, thank you for the welcome!

I will really try to give you a concrete answer about why I'm attracted to him- but with the disclaimer that there could be another person with his same exact traits who I wouldn't feel attracted to at all. With that in mind, I'm attracted to him because he's intellectually curious (for example, if he found a book on Russian burial rituals of the 18th century, he would probably read it even though he has no previous interest in that field- I mean he's interested in anything, basically), he's playful about his intellect rather then being very serious about it, he sees everyday life as bizarre and bizarre things as normal, and nearly everything he says is funny to me.

Regarding the "holier then thou" thing, it's not that I want to go around saving all the lonely guys, it just seems like individual women deliberately making different decisions about who they're going to sleep with is the most logical answer to the problems with contemporary society that are discussed around on this board-

I suppose there's a tension between the sosuave guys who say "Maybe society is screwed, so deal with it, just play the hand you're dealt the best you can" and the guys who say "The deck is unfairly stacked in women's favor, so I'm either never going to get laid or will only get laid through the use of elaborate subterfuge." The people who advocate the latter don't seem to be responding to this thread, perhaps I will have to begin posting in their threads...

 

[DonJuanna]

Oh and in terms of whistling, ass-admiring, etc, the only thing I care about is the look in the guy's eyes as he does it. If I see friendly appreciation, I give him a smile. If I see resentment and hostility in his eyes, then I feel threatened and "turn my nose up".