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The argument buster...blueprint to ending confrontation

JonJaper

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(I posted this on my workout log but I thought it's an expansive topic and might need further discussion, so is deserving of its own thread)


Something interesting happened today which made me think about confrontations and just dealing with them. As you can imagine, this can not only apply to relationships/girls, but also to confrontations with work colleagues, friends/family, or random idiots you meet when going out.

So here's what happened:

I was at the gym deadlifting and usually deadlifting really takes the winds out of my sails, so sometimes I grunt loudly as it helps me channel my aggression towards the lift AND helps with my breathing during the lift.

Today, after I deadlifted 308lbs for the first set of 7 reps, some big Polish guy (just another customer, didn't work at the gym) came right up to me (his nose was barely inches away from my face) and he tells me how a guy got kicked out for shouting, and that I should not shout especially when doing such a "pathetic weight". He told me off like an angry parent would to a child. I'll admit that it pissed me off and was downright rude....I felt he had no right to speak to me like that and invade my personal space the way he did.

I also felt bad that I allowed someone to be rude to me and to be in my face like that. That hurt my confidence a lot.


I then replied "it may be a light weight for you, but it's heavy for me so I don't see why you needed to say that" After being exposed as a rude idiot trying to undermine me by calling my weight "pathetic", he concedes and semi-apologetically says "ok, but don't shout" and I said I'll try to keep it down.


I get that my grunting may have distracted him....and the next set I tried to keep it down...but even then, he had NO RIGHT to behave the way he did.

If he asked me to keep it down because he was getting distracted (instead of rambling on about some guy getting kicked out like he's some sort of rule-enforcer when he's not even an employee), that would have been reasonable.

But I guess I can't expect everyone to have manners and to behave the right way...you're always gonna encounter idiots in life.





The above incident made me think about confrontations as a whole (work colleagues, idiots at the gym, friends, family, girlfriends, wives, kids) when either the other person is wrong or BOTH you and the other person are wrong.

I've thought of a formula/structure for dealing with such confrontations.

Basically it goes like this:


"I understand that x/y/z bothered you and I will do x/y/z next time.....but there was no reason why you did x/y/z"...if you behave like that towards me, why should I respect you?




For the example at the gym...it would have gone like this:
"I understand that my loud grunting might have distracted you from your workout and I'll keep it down next time, but there was no reason why you had to come THIS CLOSE (show him how close) to my face in an aggressive manner and tell me I'm doing a pathetic weight. It might be a light weight for you, but it's heavy for me and there was no need to try and insult me...if you behave like that towards me, why should I respect you?"





For the angry wife:
"I understand that you are on your period and it's painful and makes you irritable and next time I'll try not to invite my parents round for dinner when you are on your period...but there was no reason why you had to bring up how you find my mother annoying. There was no need to call her names and insult her, which would obviously offend me. If you behave like that towards me, why should I respect you?"




The work colleague/boss

"I understand that you are an experienced member of the team and that you didn't find my suggestion constructive, and next time I'll take your opinions into account more...but there was no need to be condescending and rude. We are in a professional environment and insulting me infront of the juniors as well as the manager was inappropriate and low.If you behave like that towards me, why should I respect you?"






Basically you can apply this argument buster to ALL confrontations where both people have been wrong OR the other person is in the wrong.


In my opinion, this is a confident and mature way to handle a confrontation.

Confident in the fact that you don't let people mistreat you....but mature in that you defend yourself without resorting to insulting back/starting a fight in the way that immature confidence would lead to.

In the case of the gym douche....if he carried on behaving like an idiot...then that becomes totally his fault and that's when the gym staff and security staff within the building get involved....either way not my problem.


In most cases the other person will be reasonable (usual reply is along the lines of "I didn't mean to behave like that" )...or something defensive but still conceding...from there you can work out a solution.



However if the person carries on behaving unreasonably....or behaves in an even worse manner, congratulations, you are dealing with an idiot who is now 100% in the wrong...you warned them, now either give em hell or let someone else (authorities, senior colleagues, security etc) deal with them



Try it out yourselves and see what results you get.
 

r0cky

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Better yet, you should've ignored him and keep screaming as loud as you need to. When someone is as disrespectful to me as he was to you, I treat them as if they are not even registering in my reality and dont aknowledge them.
Go back to the gym and scream as loud as you want, if he says something just look right thru him, maybe say some nonsense like "thats the way it is", and keep doing your thing.
In this way you're not contributing to confrontation, you're just ignoring negativity.
 

JonJaper

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@ the guys saying ignore....sometimes that isn't possible/practical

Especially when a dude is right in your face. He was so aggressive that a part of me thought he was suddenly going to start getting physical. I don't deserve that.

Other situations you can't ignore are confrontations with a girlfriend/wife. Ignoring might be an ideal short-term solution but the problem will come back and bite you in the ass.



Plus no one gets in my f*cking face like that....I don't want to be the kind of guy that lets people do that to me. I used to get bullied as a kid and I'm not gonna let people walk over me again...that's being submissive/beta.
 

r0cky

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JonJaper said:
Plus no one gets in my f*cking face like that....I don't want to be the kind of guy that lets people do that to me. I used to get bullied as a kid and I'm not gonna let people walk over me again...that's being submissive/beta.
You're being totally reactive to this guy. You dont seem to be aware of the fact that he's controlling your emotional state.He's the reason why your mad, and therefore he has the power. When you told him you'll "try to keeep it down" you submitted to him, and by letting his behavior trigger your emotions, you're a beta.

If you really want to be alpha then you have to stop getting sucked into other people's realities and reacting to their behavior. As the alpha you never get sucked into other people's realities, instead, YOU let others into your reality. And not just anybody, you CHOOSE who you permit into your reality and you ignore those who dont pass your "sh!t test". In your case, I assume you don't like people who are negative and seek confrontations, so anytime someone shows these qualities, they have failed your sh!t test, and they are not to be allowed into your reality. You dismiss them and ignore them.

By doing this, I guarantee you he will feel like a dumbass and automatically see you as someone of higher value. At which point he will be more likely to change his behavior to gain your acceptance.
 

Who Dares Win

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And you spent 30 minutes for writing such a long post and hours to create a theory just because a useless individual with no special talent except height and mass reproached you?

Simply ignore individuals like him, not only because his talking to you was unrespectful but mostly because you have no reason to give a fvck about seeking approval of others especially at the gym that is your temple.

Strong fat guy reproach you as a kid? wife is pissed off and look for a reason to annoy you? keep watching football or do whatever you planned to do before.

I seriously wonder where did you get all that patience anyway, I had a similar situation happening to me, I was performing the bench press and a big guy who got ignored from some girls came to me to "give me suggestion" just to show them how of a leader he is...he politely suggested me to incline the bench for better result to which I replied I wasnt doing upper chest, when he kept going about how wrong I was I simply turned away and restarted.

Also read what DonGorgon said, your attention is currency, you cannot waste on useless people.
 

JonJaper

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Above two posts are pretty useful.


One thing about me that I recently realised is that I take $hit WAY TOO PERSONALLY. I guess that comes from a low self-confidence.

I definitely agree with this:

r0cky said:
You're being totally reactive to this guy. You dont seem to be aware of the fact that he's controlling your emotional state.He's the reason why your mad, and therefore he has the power. When you told him you'll "try to keeep it down" you submitted to him, and by letting his behavior trigger your emotions, you're a beta.
That comes from taking things too personally and overthinking. You can imagine how crippling this habit is when it comes to girls....a rejection/$hit test from a girl will end up making me feel insulted/humiliated/angry a lot of the time.


Sure, I guess I should have ignored him even though it was hard to (as his nose was inches away from my face and he was 'telling me off' in a raised voice). Letting that dude's behaviour get to me was pretty beta. I let him piss me off, especially since he was behaving in an insecure way that proved he was beta. The media gives us this idea of alphas being intimidating bully-type people who lay the smackdown and get into fights etc...but REAL alphas are chilled out and don't get so angry. This dude was as beta as they come.


I agree that I shouldn't have 'submitted' and behaved reactively/let him get to me...but you gotta draw a line somewhere.

Sure, you can ignore someone when they are verbally going at you...but when it gets physical, there's nothing wrong with establishing boundaries.

If the guy just was talking to me, ignoring would be easy...but how many of you guys would allow some douchebag to get within homosexual levels of physical closeness, with his sweaty nose nearly touching yours?

You wouldn't. It's easy on the internet to say that you would ignore it, but I bet most people here would either tell the guy to back off out of your space, or worse, push him away/get into a fight.
 

SMS 48

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Honestly, it makes you sound like a ***** in my opinion. I would never take that approach with a female or in front of a female.
 

Chamber36

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I've got 2 tips for you. 1 Jiu Jitsu. 2 get a job in a bar/club.

If you work in a bar/club you have to deal with lots and lots of angry drunk buff dudes and lots of stuck-up self-entitled princesses. Learning to say no is really one of my main strengths now.

So if that guy had approached me, I would give him a Charlie Sheen glare like I do most people who have a problem with me. You can't flinch because a guy's bigger than you. I've had those times as well where I would flinch if a bigger guy stepped to me a certain way. Now I have so much confidence I assume the dude's making a joke if he approaches me like that. Took me 3 years of MMA practice, often sparring against bigger guys.

Plus most of those buff dudes in the gym have no range of motion, no speed and no coordination. It's all about technique. Strength and size aren't as important.
 

JonJaper

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SMS 48 said:
Honestly, it makes you sound like a ***** in my opinion. I would never take that approach with a female or in front of a female.

LOL why not?
It basically shows an understanding of what pissed off the person in the first place (most people appreciate it when you understand where they are coming from) but at the same time you are setting your own boundaries.




What would you do instead? And are there examples of what you did resulting in success?






Chamber36 said:
I've got 2 tips for you. 1 Jiu Jitsu. 2 get a job in a bar/club.

If you work in a bar/club you have to deal with lots and lots of angry drunk buff dudes and lots of stuck-up self-entitled princesses. Learning to say no is really one of my main strengths now.

So if that guy had approached me, I would give him a Charlie Sheen glare like I do most people who have a problem with me. You can't flinch because a guy's bigger than you. I've had those times as well where I would flinch if a bigger guy stepped to me a certain way. Now I have so much confidence I assume the dude's making a joke if he approaches me like that. Took me 3 years of MMA practice, often sparring against bigger guys.

Plus most of those buff dudes in the gym have no range of motion, no speed and no coordination. It's all about technique. Strength and size aren't as important.

Interesting...basically get used to being around such guys and get used to sparring/simulating a fight situation.

I can imagine that stopping me from getting intimidated.


Plus you can see how that can apply to girls...if my confidence is high and I feel like I can deal with aggressive big dudes, then getting rejected by a 110lb girl will not feel so bad after all.
 

SMS 48

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JonJaper said:
LOL why not?
It basically shows an understanding of what pissed off the person in the first place (most people appreciate it when you understand where they are coming from) but at the same time you are setting your own boundaries.




What would you do instead? And are there examples of what you did resulting in success?
Because letting someone talk down to you, breathe all over you, basically dominate/threaten you without consequences is submissive behavior, even if you don't apologize or back down (which obviously is even worse).

Different scenerios call for different measures.

In your scenerio, assuming no women were around, your approach is fine.

When arguing with a woman this should never be implemented. Your woman should feel your dominance. She should be too scared to go apeshyt on you, or disrespect you in any way.

"I understand that you are on your period and it's painful and makes you irritable and next time I'll try not to invite my parents round for dinner when you are on your period...but there was no reason why you had to bring up how you find my mother annoying. There was no need to call her names and insult her, which would obviously offend me. If you behave like that towards me, why should I respect you?"
^ This is a logical approach women don't even understand. It just gives her an opportunity to say the following:

"Because I'm your wife that's why!"

"Fine! Don't respect me then! Just like that time you (brings up something from the past)"

etc.

This is something that needs to be taken care of while you're dating. Which would sound something along the lines of "Listen to me. If you want us to be together, you will respect me. What you did was completely ****ing disrespectful." Then dump her if she doesn't profusely apologize.

Repeat this a few times and she'll never be disrespectful.


If you're at the gym and something like that happens (which you described), and your girl is there, a better approach would be to tell him "come here I want to tell you something" and walk a few feet away, to the side, where your girl can't here. Then you say exactly what you said (which she can't here) while maintaining eye contact and dominant body language. The guy's body language will start to change as you say what you said, and in your girl's eyes you are being dominant over him not submissive. Win-win.
 

TonyBaloney

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We are living a the "post polite society" times........

All around us, we meet people who through a combination of aggresive capitalism, keeping up with the rap stars/thug life music/ general selfish vibe in society, behave in the most inappropraite manner all ways.......

My life and times have seen a huge variation of different folks. I think reading different styles people is almost like learning different languages. It becomes an instinct to know how to react to the way certain people are.

My personal reaction to this polish shi t bag would have been the adrenalin fuelled anger of insult. You cant give an ounce to roid head/wannabe gangster/posse boy/hard man wannabes.......

You at the very least have got to develop your testosterone levels (as the guy is roided up, this is probably where his aggression came from)

Take some more zinc, eat better and stand your ground...... you'll feel better after........

Tony
 

FairShake

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JonJaper said:
For the angry wife:
"I understand that you are on your period and it's painful and makes you irritable and next time I'll try not to invite my parents round for dinner when you are on your period...but there was no reason why you had to bring up how you find my mother annoying. There was no need to call her names and insult her, which would obviously offend me. If you behave like that towards me, why should I respect you?"
Really brah? "I understand that you are on your period"? That will actually dramatically escalate the situation and you may just get a frying pan shoved in your snot hole popping off with some dumb sh!t like that!
 

TheMale

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i actually found that website, they know how to deal with b!tch behavior and confrontation, from what i saw, they are geniuses' !
i'm actually more active there.

if you want some precision or help or clarification, let me know by PM !
 

seethehoop

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Erm, theres somehting that doesnt sit right with me on this one. The OP states he lifted 308lbs and the other guy said this was a light weight. 308Lbs is 140Kg, 22 stone!

Depending on weight class that Olympic standards.

There's no way this guy would have said this was a light weight.

Also weight is irrelevant, you may be lifiting to build tone, which is lower weights and more reps. So why comment at all.

Grunting is also part of lifting, it helps to release explosive energy. So again, why would he comment at all.

Im not doubting the incident I just think there are some inconsistancies here.
 

Down Low

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Next time, say "if you can't address me with common courtesy, don't address me at all."

Personally, I don't see the point in hanging out in gyms. They're filthy, stinking places populated by narcissists and azzholes like the OP's Polish friend. Mister Pole picked a fight at exactly the moment the OP was weak and exhausted from exercising (and had mental confusion from low brain sugar and asphyxiation).

The people who most need and benefit from gyms are those who are most put off by gym rats and unhygenic conditions.

Same goes for most pools.

I get the impression that most "fitness center" memberships are bought by people who just like the feeling of spending money. That too is a poor demographic for a wife search.
 
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