Is apathy the root of all evil?

[Alle_Gory]

It's said that evil thrives when good men do nothing, then doing nothing is the root of all evil. Apathy is the medium that evil thrives in.

Alot of the reasons the economy is in the sh*tter, that we have massive pollution and over-population and various other problems is because people really don't give a damn to change anything and let the bastards control things.

Thoughts?

 

[Huffman]

Apathy? Maybe. I think that the current development of our (western) world is a very natural thing. After WW2 people's hopes for a nice, new world were just too high.

I'm generalizing Europe and USA together because we share financial crisis, distrust in politicians, disillusionment with democracy etc.

Don't know what to make of it though. We all would like a nicer world. The thing is, there is no clear immediate goal that you could rebel for. What to do? Whom to elect? Which groups to support?

You said that it is the good men that do nothing... but It feels impossible to tell the "good men" from "the bastards", and do the right thing.

 

[Plinco]

laziness and dishonesty it the root of evil.

 

[Razor Sharp]

Apathy itself is just a means to an end. The numbers work out a lot better for the dudes at the top of the food chain when the rest of humanity really doesn't care how much they are getting shafted.

Make no mistake - the true struggle of our time is not left vs right or black vs white, its the haves vs the have-nots, every day there are fewer of the former and more of the latter. This imbalance can only thrive in an environment of ignorance and apathy - the two go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This is why evil prevails when good men stay stupid and do nothing (that way it can MUAHHAHAHAAHAH all the way to the f*cking bank.)

The love of money is the true root of all that is evil. It's not even the cash itself that is bad, it is the LOVE and willingness to do whatever it takes to get it. If making that paper is more dear to your heart than your family, your loved ones then there is no getting past it - you are a sociopath capable of unspeakable acts.

It's no secret that the people/organizations doing the most harm to the world (genocide, contamination, destruction) also happen to be the richest by several orders of magnitude (banks, pharmaceuticals, defense contractors, etc). If you really want to find the devil himself, all you need to do is follow the money trail.

By contrast the source of all goodness is love, which has a completely different hierarchy of needs. If Love was a millionaire it would donate most of it's funds to family and community - what's the point in holding onto something you will just lose when you die? Your real legacy will be found in the lives you touched, not the numbers on your account.

Like Hendrix once said:

When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace

 

[Twitch]

Let me start with the premise. "It's said that evil thrives when good men do nothing, then doing nothing is the root of all evil."

"Evil thrives when good men do nothing." This is just a quote. It is general; it is vague. Evil thrives when good men do things as well. Lets say good man "X" is giving his LTR multiple orgasms. During that time someone will be murdered. Evil is thriving.

Secondly, what is a good man? What is evil? These are just concepts. They don't actually exist. We made them up. What someone thinks is good or bad varies person to person. There is no standard for evil.

I don't really like to think in terms of good and bad. I usually look at probable gains versus probable losses.

Here is an example(not saying I have or haven't done this. I am just presenting an example): Stealing from work.
I wouldn't feel bad about the action itself. I would fear the consequences.
Gain: Item "X"
Loss: Losing my job, jail time

I contend this is the way people actually process morality. My coworker told me that, "I already have someone I am talking to. We would just break up though if this goes anywhere. I am not a cheater." It might appear as if my coworker has an aversion to cheating, but he/she really just fears rationalizing the fact that he/she has cheated on someone. How could he/she possibly complain if someone cheats on him/her? Maybe he/she doesn't have an aversion to acknowledging the behavior. Another possibility is that he/she simply doesn't like the way he/she would feel about doing it. It is know the action that bothers a person. It is the effect of that action.

 

[Rogue]

Alle_Gory:
It's said that evil thrives when good men do nothing, then doing nothing is the root of all evil. Apathy is the medium that evil thrives in.

There is no root of all evil. It's not apathy. It's not greed. There is no singular cause.

Twitch:
Secondly, what is a good man? What is evil? These are just concepts. They don't actually exist. We made them up. What someone thinks is good or bad varies person to person. There is no standard for evil.

The foundation of human empathy and morality has evolutionary origins in primates. Although there is a large degree of cultural relativity in the definitions of permissible and impermissible behaviors throughout the gamut of worldly cultures, there are empirical findings of certain universal moral standards throughout all cultures. There is no culture which has been found, for instance, where murder or rape are considered permissible. There is evidence in cognitive psychology of an universal moral grammar. But I will say no more. This is the subject of an essay I have been researching and it's best for me to leave this as a teaser.

 

[Quiksilver]

Apathy itself is just a means to an end. The numbers work out a lot better for the dudes at the top of the food chain when the rest of humanity really doesn't care how much they are getting shafted.

Make no mistake - the true struggle of our time is not left vs right or black vs white, its the haves vs the have-nots, every day there are fewer of the former and more of the latter. This imbalance can only thrive in an environment of ignorance and apathy - the two go together like peanut butter and jelly.

This is why evil prevails when good men stay stupid and do nothing (that way it can MUAHHAHAHAAHAH all the way to the f*cking bank.)

The love of money is the true root of all that is evil. It's not even the cash itself that is bad, it is the LOVE and willingness to do whatever it takes to get it. If making that paper is more dear to your heart than your family, your loved ones then there is no getting past it - you are a sociopath capable of unspeakable acts.

It's no secret that the people/organizations doing the most harm to the world (genocide, contamination, destruction) also happen to be the richest by several orders of magnitude (banks, pharmaceuticals, defense contractors, etc). If you really want to find the devil himself, all you need to do is follow the money trail.

By contrast the source of all goodness is love, which has a completely different hierarchy of needs. If Love was a millionaire it would donate most of it's funds to family and community - what's the point in holding onto something you will just lose when you die? Your real legacy will be found in the lives you touched, not the numbers on your account.

Like Hendrix once said:

Are you saying it is wrong to work hard for money and to create wealth and value in trade for money?

What incentive is there to create value if not in exchange for another value(which just happens to be 'money')?

Cavemen and prehistoric savages love each other, and that is the world you hold as a utopia since creating anything of value in your world nets no profit, only welfare. In such a society there is no incentive to do anything aside from eat, sleep, fvck, and attack one another with clubs in order to have more to eat, more places to sleep, and more women to fvck. This is the product of a society without a rational and efficient medium of exchange, in order to allow individuals to create value.

All that you see around you in that room you are in, that is the product of a society in which productive individuals trade their time and creativity for money.

Do I love money?

It seems to be the most useful way of trading between individuals. Barter is inefficient, gold can be hoarded, so fiat currency is the most logical way to exchange value of production and creativity between individuals.

I would contest that Money ($$$) is a testament to the goodness of man, in that we can deal with each other rationally and not down the barrel of a gun.

Perhaps you mistake "love of money" for "corruption"?

--

It is no coincidence that the corporations suspected of doing the most 'evil' are linked in some ways to various levels of government. Why is this? Because instead of trading value they create for money, they seek to use government as a forceful arm to dip into the pocket of the citizenry, whether through socialist programs, government contracts, or "too big to fail" guilting mantra.

Many corporations that surround governments are akin to leeches, which grow fat and inefficient the longer they suck from the public teat, and evil is allowed to fester.

This is not a love of money, this is a desire to not earn money but to still have it given to you. The only way to do this is to siphon it from government.

Solution: Reduce taxes to bare necessity (less tax revenue overall = less to siphon away) and punish government corruption with a chilling harshness that sets an example, and most forms of corporate evil will disappear overnight.

--

IMO, the root of rational evil (as opposed to irrational or sociopathic evil) is an individual without a purpose, who floats through life sucking the wealth from others and producing nothing of value, by conscious or unconscious choice of course.

And the evil you tolerate is the exact amount you will endure.

One can ignore evil, but one cannot ignore the consequences of ignoring evil.

 

[Julius_Seizeher]

Money is no more inherently evil than a bullet is inherently deadly. These things have no intent, they are tools.

Mind you do not project your prejudices onto inanimate physical objects.

Evil is not someone that we can point a finger at, for we only implicate ourselves. Good and Evil are a part of each of us, and our minds are the battleground between them.

Evil is weakness, Good is strength. In our weakness, we hurl insult and spit vitriol against others and the world at large, and blame them for our inadequacies.

In our strength, we cease to find fault and begin to search for equitable means to resolve the challenges we face.

When we are strong, we focus on ourselves and how we may affect others.

When we are weak, we focus on others and how they have affected us.

 

[Razor Sharp]

I get into this debate a lot, usually because people dont hear what I'm actually saying. To wit:

It's not even the cash itself that is bad, it is the LOVE and willingness to do whatever it takes to get it.

Money itself is inert, a meer measure of value, time or whatever you want to call it. It can be used for good or evil.

The people who use it for wicked purposes value it above anything else in life. They love it more than their mothers, their fathers, than humanity itself. They would rather see thousands killed than take a financial loss.

That's a world of difference from your self-made man, who only works that hard so he can one day give back, to his family - in many cases his community as well. That is true wealth right there. I appreciate the value of money, but I do not love something that cannot love me back.

As Rogue said though, evil wears many faces, perhaps it's unfair to unilaterally declare one root. But if I had to pinpoint the biggest motivator of most evil sh*t that happens out there on a gigantic scale, by far the love/worship of money has to be it. That is where all corruption begins, an insatiable thirst for power at all costs - human life, decency and goodness be damned.

I'm not religious by any means but I have read holy books including the Bible, and I find it quite telling that Jesus, the self-proclaimed "Prince of Peace" and embodiment of God's eternal love, beat the living sh*t out of money changers (bankers) who were doing business in the temple.

So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Haha, homeboy went BUCK WILD and made a whip, McGuyver-style to beat their asses. This other Bible verse captures what I'm saying quite well:

For the love of money is a root of all forms of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Ok nuff preachin, lol

You guys make some great points here - for the record I actually agree!

 

[~Vortex~]

Why you think apathy is the root cause of Evil is beyond me; if there is a root cause of Evil, it is hate, anger, and revenge; the Way of the Darkness.

 

[Powerlifter]

Julius, nicely said!

QUOTE=Julius_Seizeher]Money is no more inherently evil than a bullet is inherently deadly. These things have no intent, they are tools.

Mind you do not project your prejudices onto inanimate physical objects.

Evil is not someone that we can point a finger at, for we only implicate ourselves. Good and Evil are a part of each of us, and our minds are the battleground between them.

Evil is weakness, Good is strength. In our weakness, we hurl insult and spit vitriol against others and the world at large, and blame them for our inadequacies.

In our strength, we cease to find fault and begin to search for equitable means to resolve the challenges we face.

When we are strong, we focus on ourselves and how we may affect others.

When we are weak, we focus on others and how they have affected us.[/QUOTE]

 

[Twitch]

There is no root of all evil. It's not apathy. It's not greed. There is no singular cause.The foundation of human empathy and morality has evolutionary origins in primates. Although there is a large degree of cultural relativity in the definitions of permissible and impermissible behaviors throughout the gamut of worldly cultures, there are empirical findings of certain universal moral standards throughout all cultures. There is no culture which has been found, for instance, where murder or rape are considered permissible. There is evidence in cognitive psychology of an universal moral grammar. But I will say no more. This is the subject of an essay I have been researching and it's best for me to leave this as a teaser.

I actually learned about this in a psych class I had.
My rebuttal:
"The foundation of human empathy and morality has evolutionary origins in primates."
Exactly. Morality has not always been. At some point it was adopted. Without animals capable of higher cognition there is no morality. It resides only in the mind, as an extension of evolution.

 

[Alle_Gory]

But even animals can have morality in some cases. Cats raising baby squirrels as their own, wolves and dogs adopting children (many documented real cases, some of them fakes), hippos defending gazelles from crocodiles.

How closely do we watch these animals to say these events are rare?

I don't believe that morality is a human condition because it seems to me like it's present in the less developed animals. Unless there is something else going on here...

 

[EA Gold]

Secondly, what is a good man? What is evil? These are just concepts. They don't actually exist. We made them up. What someone thinks is good or bad varies person to person. There is no standard for evil.

This is what happens when you don't Believe in God.

If there is no God The moral law giver, then there's no moral law, if there's no moral law then there is no good or evil.

To the atheist if there's no good or evil, then the sole purpose of life is be as self centered as possible to do everything for self. That person will do anything in its power to gain as much pleasure, self gratification and power even if millions suffer or die for his own personal gain.

To him this life and this life alone to live after that nothingness, no responsibility, no accountability. This is why they will attack anyone that pertains to an after life judgement as it is said in the Bible.

Instead they will have the promise, The Only HOPE. The promise of a distant better tomorrow, a Utopia in the future where nobody can see if only you give up your personal rights and power. Then if enough people give up their liberties and believe in that promise, they will imprison, persecute and kill anyone that stands in the way of that better tomorrow.

If you don't know your history or been hypnotized by the news media, this has already happened with the Theory of Communism in Russia, China and several countries around the world where an estimated deaths totaling 94 million in pursuit of that future promise of tomorrow. Nazism has had it share of the promise of putting Germany's economic depression solely on the Jewish and only if the population were to be purified then it would be able to create a Germanic Empire for all fellow Germans where their would be government jobs, social security, insurance and a fair wage to all and everybody who would give in to the promise.

Doesn't this all sound familiar in American politics, The American Promise, The American Dream.

But the truth of the matter of it is, the American dream is rooted in the Divine creator of the Bible. As it is said in the consitution.. "all men are created equal" and that they are "endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights" including "Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

This may have been true for those countries before communism/nazism but changes to their constitution, corruption may have allowed their own government total power and authority to promise people a future Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness if only you give up your personal human rights and liberties.

There's a saying if you don't believe in anything, you will fall for anything.

If enough people live without morals and sexual promiscuity and moral failure continues, it gives those in power an excuse to have more authority to control and take away rights liberties on behalf of your own safety and security.

To protect YOU from your own self.


Be it known this is only the results of an entire population being deceived or in moral failure looking to man instead of God for their needs, not a single individual and that is why they spend millions in the media and in propaganda so they can break down the family, break down morals and beliefs, in which they sweep in and offer the promise.

This is what happens to Man without God.

 

[Rogue]

Twitch:
Exactly. Morality has not always been. At some point it was adopted. Without animals capable of higher cognition there is no morality. It resides only in the mind, as an extension of evolution.

Alle_Gory:
But even animals can have morality in some cases. Cats raising baby squirrels as their own, wolves and dogs adopting children (many documented real cases, some of them fakes), hippos defending gazelles from crocodiles. How closely do we watch these animals to say these events are rare? I don't believe that morality is a human condition because it seems to me like it's present in the less developed animals. Unless there is something else going on here...

Quite indeed.

I agree with you and Twitch, although evolutionary biologists pounce against the idea of 'lesser developed' animals as a popular misconception of evolution. We're all equals. Stephen Jay Gould once famously wrote, "There is no progress in evolution. The fact of evolutionary change through time doesn't represent progress as we know it. Progress is not inevitable. Much of evolution is downward in terms of morphological complexity, rather than upward. We're not marching toward some greater thing. The actual history of life is awfully damn curious in the light of our usual expectation that there's some predictable drive toward a generally increasing complexity in time." To which Richard Dawkins eulogized, "The late Stephen Jay Gould rightly pointed out that a dominant icon of evolution in popular mythology, a caricature almost as ubiquitous as lemmings jumping over cliffs (that myth is false too), is a shambling file of simian ancestors, rising progressively in the wake of the erect, striding, majestic figure of Homo sapiens sapiens: man as evolution’s last word (and in this context it always is man rather than woman); man as what the whole enterprise is pointing towards; man as a magnet, drawing evolution from the past towards his eminence." I'm nitpicking of course but it plays an integral role in other people's misconceptions of morality, as if the existence of morality itself is from unnatural origin or exclusive to the 'highest' developed (i.e. us).

 

[Alle_Gory]

This is what happens when you don't Believe in God.
If there is no God The moral law giver, then there's no moral law, if there's no moral law then there is no good or evil.

I agree. God is great and he knows what is right and wrong.

Now if you'll excuse God he needs to kill a few more million people for the sins of the few and create a new form of HIV and maybe Cholera. He hasn't decided how many children will die from cholera. Also, he tells me that you still owe him a sacrifice.

Biblical morality is great isn't it?

This is what happens to Man without God.

As a man without god, I completely agree. Just today I killed some orphans crossing the street, drowned some puppies and raped this chick because she looked at me funny.

Wait, no that was a movie... I remember now. I woke up, played some PS3 and helped my brother with a project. How evil of me.

 

[BigJimbo]

I agree. God is great and he knows what is right and wrong.

Now if you'll excuse God he needs to kill a few more million people for the sins of the few and create a new form of HIV and maybe Cholera. He hasn't decided how many children will die from cholera. Also, he tells me that you still owe him a sacrifice.

Biblical morality is great isn't it?


As a man without god, I completely agree. Just today I killed some orphans crossing the street, drowned some puppies and raped this chick because she looked at me funny.

Wait, no that was a movie... I remember now. I woke up, played some PS3 and helped my brother with a project. How evil of me.

Huh? You drowned some puppies? What a sick f---.

 

[Alle_Gory]

Huh? You drowned some puppies? What a sick f---.

I was being sarcastic, genius. EA Gold seems to think that morality is only possible because of the christian god.

 

[ArcBound]

It's said that evil thrives when good men do nothing, then doing nothing is the root of all evil. Apathy is the medium that evil thrives in.

This reminds me of the scene in Spiderman when Peter lets the robber run through who eventually murders Uncle Ben. So yes because Peter did nothing himself he laid a big part of the blame on himself as he held himself responsible. So yes evil can thrive on apathy but it is not the same thing as saying apathy is the root of all evil. Regardless of Peter being there something else motivated the robber to commit the actions he was going to commit and it wasn't Peter. Peter wasn't the root, but he was a roadblock that could have stopped it.

 

[azanon]

It's said that evil thrives when good men do nothing, then doing nothing is the root of all evil. Apathy is the medium that evil thrives in.

Alot of the reasons the economy is in the sh*tter, that we have massive pollution and over-population and various other problems is because people really don't give a damn to change anything and let the bastards control things.

Thoughts?

I think from a certain point of view, apathy is an element of power. Correct me if I'm wrong, but to be apathetic is to not be emotional. And if one is not only emotional, but controlled by it, then they are arguably acting in a weak fashion.

I think being preoccupied with good vs. evil is a waste of time, given its dependency on perspective and culture. The princes are students of both, and see them both from a third-person perspective.