I was a virgin at 21 and at 23 I have slept with 12 women but now I'm mentally ruined.

[BackInTheGame78]

Please elaborate

"Yes but even quality women had previous relationships. A quality woman has had 3 relationships by 23 and 5 by 27. I pulled these numbers out my ass but I’d argue they’re reasonable."

Nothing in life is black and white like this. Everything is shades of gray, so to speak. You will miss a lot of opportunities in life with this kind of rigid thinking. With women and anything else.

 

[pipeman84]

Yes but even quality women had previous relationships. A quality woman has had 3 relationships by 23 and 5 by 27. I pulled these numbers out my ass but I’d argue they’re reasonable.

These numbers are a problem to me. Like I mentioned in my post, I find it ridiculous that a man develops himself to the best he can just to end up with a woman (quality or not) that has had at least 5 ****s by age 27. I plan on marrying a young woman 18-22 but even then they’ve had previous relationships. This is a problem for me.

I think that firstly you should revise your definitions. A quality woman where quality means - feminine, loyal, family oriented, at least average intelligence - can't have had 3 relationships by 23. Under exceptional circumstances one could argue she had one.

Secondly, a man that really develops himself to the best he can and has the intention to find a quality woman to marry, can't end up with a damaged woman. If he does marry such woman it was either his choice or he hasn't actually developed as much as he thinks he has. You're 23yrs old you have all the time in the world ... look for instance at Dane Cook, he was in his mid 40s when he got together with an 18yrs old which he married 6yrs later.

 

[All_Kindz_Of_Gainz]

can't have had 3 relationships by 23.

Damn bro you must be s fvcking chad to be having such high standards.

 

[ABC123]

Damn bro you must be s fvcking chad to be having such high standards.

What is a Chad? How does he act and look like?

 

[DreamAgain]

I think that firstly you should revise your definitions. A quality woman where quality means - feminine, loyal, family oriented, at least average intelligence - can't have had 3 relationships by 23. Under exceptional circumstances one could argue she had one.

Secondly, a man that really develops himself to the best he can and has the intention to find a quality woman to marry, can't end up with a damaged woman. If he does marry such woman it was either his choice or he hasn't actually developed as much as he thinks he has. You're 23yrs old you have all the time in the world ... look for instance at Dane Cook, he was in his mid 40s when he got together with an 18yrs old which he married 6yrs later.

I love when people use celebrities as an indicator of anything useful for the average man.

 

[Dr.Suave]

What is a Chad? How does he act and look like?

"Chad Thunderc0ck" has similar Looks, Status, and SMV as Thor / Chris Hemsworth in his prime

A Chad, or Chad-lite might have similar looks but not as much Money and/or Status.

Other variants of Chad are "Tyrone" and "Juan Camaney"

 

[pipeman84]

I love when people use celebrities as an indicator of anything useful for the average man.

Well, I wasn't talking about private jets or suchlike, was I?
Firstly, age gaps relationships are not something exclusive to celebrities and secondly plenty celebrities are in relationships that not only aren't inspirational, but make no sense or are even repulsive to the average man (Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez is the first one that comes to mind).

As we're on a public forum with users from all over the world, I have to give examples that are verifiable and have enough details relevant to the subject at hand.

 

[hellonwheels]

As the title says, I'm 23 and have slept with 12 women in the past 2 years.

Today, I have a job as a SOC analysts making $65k a year. On the women side of things, things have gotten better.

The only thing I'm lacking is friends. I still have 0.

Another issue I have is that I've noticed how slutty women really are and I hate to say it but that ****s with my mind.

I want to have kids and a wife eventually but what's the point of improving myself and busting my ass on my career if I'm going to end up with a woman that has slept with 8 other men? I rather be alone.

I also masturbate and watch porn on X, 2-3 a week. This is also part of the problem that I'm trying to fix but it has been hard.

So first off, good losing the V-card and getting that manwh0re experience afterwards. Early 20s are a good time to just have fun and learn how women are - which you’re getting a feel of.

I’m guessing most of these 12 were mega sloots, so that may be distorting your view. As you go through womanizing phases you’re typically not dealing with top shelf prospects within your smv range - it just is what it is - as you get older you should value quality over quantity. You need to be extremely smart about wrapping it up though, I can’t emphasize enough how much unnecessary stress that can bring when dealing with crazy bottom of the barrels.

2 biggest problems I see in your post that need fixed are 0 friends and acting like marriage/family is the only benefit of self improvement.

Going out with 0 friends all the time would be a major red flag for a quality woman. I’m not majorly surprised you can’t find anyone in your IT work circle to go out with (sad if they are around your age), and if that’s the case then you need to be joining sports leagues or picking up hobbies like a running group or workout gym or whatever. Be aggressive with initiating social get togethers - don’t expect them to fall in your lap. Male friendships are an underrated and extremely important benefit to the male psych.

For the family/marriage pessimism - ask yourself What’s the worst that could happen? You live a life without passing on your genes, people question what’s wrong with you (or think you’re gay), and just overall don’t get all the benefits of leading a strong nuclear family. Accept that it’s a real possibility and you won’t be the first or last male to not get that. Quality women are VERY hard to find. Now think about the positive sides - never going through divorce, never paying alimony, total freedom to do cool stuff, more money to do cool stuff, don’t have to live with a horrible woman, etc. Amor fati is an important principle to live by. Despite whatever your fate is with marriage/family you need to always self improve to maintain self respect.

Lastly, I don’t advocate porn at all but 2-3x a week isnt too alarming. I suspect it’s more if you think it’s a problem/addiction. Honestly safer to do a quick self-release than only be out rawdoggin randos.

 

[ABC123]

Okay so

"Chad Thunderc0ck" has similar Looks, Status, and SMV as Thor / Chris Hemsworth in his prime

A Chad, or Chad-lite might have similar looks but not as much Money and/or Status.

Other variants of Chad are "Tyrone" and "Juan Camaney"

s

"Chad Thunderc0ck" has similar Looks, Status, and SMV as Thor / Chris Hemsworth in his prime

A Chad, or Chad-lite might have similar looks but not as much Money and/or Status.

Other variants of Chad are "Tyrone" and "Juan Camaney"

So mostly looks. I always thought it was a combination of looks, personality, status, and money.

Also, never in a million years would I think someone would mention Juan Camaney in a forum like sosuave. He’s an iconic Mexican actor!

 

[ABC123]

I think that firstly you should revise your definitions. A quality woman where quality means - feminine, loyal, family oriented, at least average intelligence - can't have had 3 relationships by 23. Under exceptional circumstances one could argue she had one.

Secondly, a man that really develops himself to the best he can and has the intention to find a quality woman to marry, can't end up with a damaged woman. If he does marry such woman it was either his choice or he hasn't actually developed as much as he thinks he has. You're 23yrs old you have all the time in the world ... look for instance at Dane Cook, he was in his mid 40s when he got together with an 18yrs old which he married 6yrs later.

Where do you meet these women?

I used to hang out and have sex with this Mexican woman who I had met at a Quinceañera. She was easy going, feminine, good sense of humor, etc. I was heavily considering a relationship with her until I saw she posted a few bikini pics showing ass on Instagram. This was a deal breaker for me. Had I not looked up her instagram, I would've been naive to the fact she posted ass pics on instagram.

 

[ABC123]

Throwing women away like they're nothing has permanent consequences. You're dealing with those right now, and that's unfortunate. But I would rather things end this way than have bad behavior continue to be rewarded. The better option was option 1. Once you take option 2, you're stuck in it. No beautiful, loyal Christian woman with a low body count and respect for men can be obtained from option 2 because their fathers raised them to (rightfully) avoid men who engage in this lifestyle that's so destructive on the soul.

A true Christian woman would have a body count of 0. A Muslim woman who isn't a virgin before marriage is by definition not a true Muslim. Same for Christians.

I'm not an ******* to women. I've only verbally snapped (calling her a slut) at one girl before. I don't abuse them, but I also don't let them be the center of my world. I take my work, mma/gym, and other interest as priority. Most women I've been with gave it up by the 2nd or 3rd date and I assume they are doing the same with other guys. I assume this because I don't know how to accurately differentiate between the woman who are true quality vs the one's that seem to be quality.

Also, where do you find these loyal family-oriented woman and how do you differentiate between the ones who are and the ones who pretend to be?

 

[pipeman84]

Where do you meet these women?

It can be anywhere. It's like with that old proverb ''When the student is ready, the teacher will appear''.

I used to hang out and have sex with this Mexican woman who I had met at a Quinceañera. She was easy going, feminine, good sense of humor, etc. I was heavily considering a relationship with her until I saw she posted a few bikini pics showing ass on Instagram. This was a deal breaker for me. Had I not looked up her instagram, I would've been naive to the fact she posted ass pics on instagram.

The signs were there she's not the kind of woman you say you're looking before finding the photos on IG. A quality woman just doesn't 'hang out and have sex' with a guy without them clearly and willingly being in a relationship first.

 

[ABC123]

It can be anywhere. It's like with that old proverb ''When the student is ready, the teacher will appear''.


The signs were there she's not the kind of woman you say you're looking before finding the photos on IG. A quality woman just doesn't 'hang out and have sex' with a guy without them clearly and willingly being in a relationship first.

Okay, let’s suppose we didn’t sleep, just went on dates and 3 months later we got into a relationship, then sex. How do I know I’m not the sucker she’s making wait?

What’s to say that she wasn’t getting pumped and dumped in the past but now she’s looking for a real relationship?

 

[pipeman84]

Okay, let’s suppose we didn’t sleep, just went on dates and 3 months later we got into a relationship, then sex. How do I know I’m not the sucker she’s making wait?

What’s to say that she wasn’t getting pumped and dumped in the past but now she’s looking for a real relationship?

This mindset of 'I gotta have sex within 3 dates otherwise I'm a sucker' is appropriate when dealing with bimbos, not your potential future wife. It shouldn't take more than 1-2 dates to establish what kind of girl you're dealing with.

If she was pumped and dumped in the past yet you spend 3 months with her while she makes you wait for sex and you don't find any red flags during this period, it's either one of those very rare cases in which she completely transformed herself or much more likely you're not as perceptive, evolved and on the same level as a quality woman as you think you are.

 

[ABC123]

Thing is, the more you (as a man) sleep around, the more these higher quality women will become invisible to you.

Hold on, I'm not sleeping around in the sense that I see a girl and we immediately ****. I take them on dates and escalate for sex. I'm I supposed to not escalate the situation to sex? How else I'm going to figure out if she's quality?

A girl can still be nice, sweet, angle-like and be a s l u t but I wouldn't know this because I didn't try to bang. Should I just not escalate out of fear of finding out the girl that is in front of me is not a princess?

And if they do have sex with me, am I the bad guy because said woman opened her legs? What if said woman is eager to jump on my ****, should I say "sorry, I can't have sex with you because you're not quality and by sleeping with you I'm not going to be able to find virgin Mary"?

Now if I try to bang and she give me the whole "I'm not that type of girl" then okay, slightly more respect for her even if she's lying (which I wouldn't really know unless I torture her for the truth).

That's the trade off. You can't have 3 women at the same time, refuse to commit to any of them, and then still expect the sweet, loyal virgin girl in the end. Choices have consequences. You picked the plates, so you also closed the door on a secure lifelong partnership

Why not? I'm not a bad guy. I have no issue taking care of a women. The reason I don't commit to the girls that I talk to is because they slept with me by the 2nd/3rd date thus (probably) doing the same with other guys. If I knew for sure that they are quality women, I would have no issue engaging in a relationship with one of them even if it slightly reduces the amount of time and money I can allocate to my other interests (mma/gym, toastmasters, reading books, educating myself in cyber, etc).

These women will also quickly detect your game and be disgusted by it. You won't be able to hide this, and you won't be able to tell which woman has these traits because they've become interchangeable objects to you.

What do you mean by game?

So, you're saying quality women aren't receptive to negging, push-pull, etc? If I run "game" on a woman and they react negatively, does that mean they're quality women, or does it mean they just don't like me?

You will also come to reject things like being kind, generous, and a good provider to women because red pill teaches you that's beta behavior, but that's exactly what these types of women are looking for. Your lifestyle has closed a door for you.

What do you mean by kind and generous?

I would say I'm a good person. Like I mentioned before, I don't mistreat women. I don't get high off making them cry or whatever. Now, being a provider I have an issue with because I'm kind of stingy with money and time. I don't gift things often and even $100 for a date is a lot to me. Regarding time, I only dedicate time to women when I have time. I'm not going to miss my Muay Thai class because Caitlyn called me and said she wants to see me. Am I not being kind and generous then? Am I the bad guy?

 

[hellonwheels]

Honestly, I think I may have judged too fast. If it's only been 2 years and 12 women, you can still recover. But you'd have to drop the lifestyle ASAP, say goodbye to the plates, and be dead serious about the next woman being the keeper.

I'm going to make up an exaggerated example. Maybe then it will be clear. The question at hand is this:


You and your friend are driving back to his house. There's an injured cat on the side of the road, so the two of you stop to check it out. Your friend's aunt works as a receptionist in a veternarian's office that's been family owned for 3 generations. You bring the cat in and the head vet admires you and your friend for this. There's an 19 year old intern working under this vet and she strikes up a conversation, saying you two are really sweet. Your friend notices this, and so does his aunt. They both see a spark between you too. You and your friend drop off the cat and leave the office.

Your friend asks what you think of her, implying you should go for it. He suggests coming back tomorrow to check up on the cat as an excuse. Your friend's aunt lets you speak to the vet (because both your friend's aunt and the head vet know you really came to see the intern, and... so does the intern). They give you some privacy to ask her out and nudge her beforehand ("He seems nice," etc.).

You go on a date together. She asks you about your relationship history, you answer you were seeing one girl but you politely told her it wont work out - too different. You ask her. She tells you her last boyfriend moved out of state and they decided to end it instead of making it long distance. Several dates later, you meet her parents. They see you as a gentlemen, you bring over some food, nice chit chat for a while. She later meets your family. They're all polite to her. Your mom likes her a lot.

The potential relationship has been approved by:

• your friend
• his aunt
• the head vet
• her parents
• your parents

And, as a bonus, let's just imagine that both of you have a 3 or less body count. Neither of you will be jaded and distrusting about entering a new relationship.

So this part of the question has been answered for both you and her:

It was answered by the people closest to you/her already. They do the screening, and you two just make the final call based on personality. Remember, blue pill strategy is what's needed for what you're looking for here, not red pill.

And this part is obvious:

Pure chance, luck, and coincidence that you're prepared for


Now, imagine that same woman, but instead of getting green lights through her social circle, you did a cold approach. And she found out you were dating multiple women at the same time. And she picked up on your inability to trust women. And you told her that you can only evaluate her as a quality woman after she first gives you sex. And she has no idea if she/you can fit in each other's social circles. Etc. This is that red pill lone wolf lifestyle. It can get you interchangeable plates, but it can't get you this woman (which you actually want, or at least say so). Either drop the red pill or drop the standards.

You've heard this before:
"Why can't I just sin my whole life and then apologize to a priest right before death?"
The answer: Because you won't be capable of apologizing by then.
You're right up to that line.

Is that example from a hallmark movie? What kind of fairytale blue-pilled crap did I just read?

You did judge too fast and are also acting like this 23yo is a derelict for having casual sex.

 

[hellonwheels]

I'm not going to miss my Muay Thai class because Caitlyn called me and said she wants to see me.

You take Muay Thai classes and have 0 friends? I’m really starting to question the sincerity of your post and how much you’ve exaggerated details.

 

[hellonwheels]

Minus the cat, it's how my dentist, my old college lab partner, two of my godmother's daughters, and my two closest childhood friends met their partners.

If you keep in the cat, it's how my old coworkers met.

If you replace the cat and the vet with presenting a robotics project, it's how my old supervisor met his wife. If you replace them with bird population sampling, it's how my old professor met his wife. If you replace the activity with a canoe trip, it's how my high school teacher's son met his wife.

If you replace one set of parents with grandparents, it's how two of my high school friends met each other.

If you change the order to parents first and colleagues second, it's how the daughter of my mom's friend found her husband. 3 months after meeting, they were engaged.

If you replace helping a cat with helping in a veterans home, it's how my old high school sweetheart later met her husband.

If the parents and friends were initially present together at an Autumn festival, it's how both my barber and his brother met their wives. Same day, double date next weekend.

Everyone I mentioned got married and stayed married. Minus one couple, they all met their partners before age 24. Except for one person (male), every person mentioned, both male and female, had a body count of less than 4 total.

I'm telling him "blue pilled crap" because OP needs blue pilled strategy to get what he's looking for.

Red pill is for increasing body count and dopamine. That's not what OP was asking about.

Ok well good job cherry-picking these examples of young people you knew that got lucky early and settled. Do you know any examples of Christian people that never found a dead cat?

Reality is that you most likely don’t know any of the baggage they had beforehand or the dynamics at play in those relationships. Reality is that almost half of relationships today stem from online dating.

Telling someone to bank on “pure luck” is not good advice. Males with less than 4 partners can in turn be poison for a future marriage. Especially if they have self respect and take care of themself and have options for exercising adultery. There are many cases (just like women) of men feeling like they didn’t get to “play the field” and then destroying families due to stupid decisions with that mindset.

 

[corrector]

Males with less than 4 partners can in turn be poison for a future marriage. Especially if they have self respect and take care of themself and have options for exercising adultery. There are many cases (just like women) of men feeling like they didn’t get to “play the field” and then destroying families due to stupid decisions with that mindset.

I had less than 4 partners (actually zero partners) before dealing with my ex-wife and I was never tempted to commit adultery (with another civvie) or "play the field" in the marriage like you were saying here. However, I was rejected by my ex-wife and she asked me to divorce her. Most divorces are initiated by women, and if they are not initiated by them, they are certainly caused by them.

It's more likely that if you have plenty of partners, then you have more people to compare your spouce to and that in turn undermines the sexual intimacy within the marriage.

 

[hellonwheels]

I had less than 4 partners (actually zero partners) before dealing with my ex-wife and I was never tempted to commit adultery or "play the field" in the marriage like you were saying here. However, I was rejected by my ex-wife and she asked me to divorce her. Most divorces are initiated by women, and if they are not initiated by them, they are certainly caused by them.

It's more likely that if you have plenty of partners, then you have more people to compare your spouce to and that in turn undermines the sexual intimacy within the marriage.

That seems to be maybe a poison for your marriage failure in a different way (oneitis). If that number would have been 12 instead of 0 you would’ve committed adultery? Did you have many options or homewreckers throwing themself at you? My guess is no to both - and it’s subjective bias for you to argue your situation where you were a faithful person (either by choice or lack of temptation). That doesn’t apply to all other marriages or refute the examples I’ve seen (one with my Brother) of getting the “play the field” itch that led to downfall after being married 20+ yrs with three kids.

I would also flip that and say men are often the core cause of divorces - and its more 50/50 - even though women file more. It gets overblown on here understandably of women ruining relationships, but guys do it just as much by effing around, getting fat, losing frame, not working on marriage game. That leads to dead bedrooms in long term marriages, then guy goes out and has an affair, wife finds out and divorces him - it’s a typical timeline that plays out just as much as the opposite way. Except both situations the women is more likely to file no matter who cheated (they are incentivized to file, men are not).