dont make her angry¬!

[jonwon]

http://www.dontmakehermad.com/forum/index.php?topic=3.msg3#msg3

The guy paints a picture of what happened when he pis*ed off his wife and how she used the system to her advantage which is shockingly easy to do.

Why am i posting this.

the story rang home to me, i could relate to the article alot.

my last relationship from two years ago, my partner accused me of being abusive and even had the 'think' of that from her friends and family.

To me and people who fully know me, they know i am not abusive to women and have never been and never will be, its not in my nature, but i do respect myself enough to stand up for my values and verbulize them.

My Ex- used to be violant, especially when drunk, but she managed to get the world thinking i was the abuser, due to my desire to stand up for my self and stopping her from being physical by using my voice, to tell her to 'stop'.

So from the system and society from my experience it is so easy for any women to abuse the social norms to make you out to be the bad guy.

Even if the above story is fabricated and not entirely true, it is scary what is potentially there for the unwitting AFC if he settles for just anything, much like i did a good few years ago.

i had the sense to walk before it got really bad, who knows what could have transpired if i did not, at one time i even feared for my life, would i have been an abuser who got his just desserts if that eventuality would have come to be.

Trust me on this DO NOT go into marriage with the wrong women, one of the reasons i am on these boards is to tell my story and help guys take that loaded gun from there heads, you really do not know how bad it is till you have been in the thick of it and i have, thankfully not to this poor guys level.

Now i am stronger for it and have re-avaluted my values, so i can help share what i experianced in the hope some poor AFC like i once was to a degree does not find himself in a big pile of shi* which is a product of his own choices.

 

[Mr.Positive]

I've always been a risk-taker, by nature, however, when I read posts like this one I start thinking that dealing with women on a long-term basis is much like playing with fire.

The margin for being successful seems very small, with little room for error.

If you are AFC and give into your wife's unrealistic demands (sh!t tests), she'll run out an cheat on you (you lose her attraction and respect)....yet, if you so much as raise your voice to her, you've just created a domestic violence situation.

Wow! No wonder our marriages our miserable these days, and divorce rates sky high!! Marriages are pretty much destined to fail before the words "I do" are even said!

Not only with marriage are men to be monogomous (which can be argued as being against our nature), but marriage now backs a man into a corner and creats a fight or flight survival situation.

I guess the best thing we can do is have a realistic attitude. When it's all said and done, and you are married, you are at the mercy of your wife's values. Bottom line...is she a quality person. Is her value system, at the base level of right or wrong, in synch with yours. Does she believe that hurting others to benefit herself is unethical?

We can't change women, and women can't change us. There has to be some acceptance in our society before we can turn things around, IMO.

 

[MacAvoy]

Trust me on this DO NOT go into marriage with the wrong women,

Thanks for the great advice jonwon. My question for you is did you figure that one out on your own? Because I thought the rest of society goes around telling people to GO into marriage with the WRONG women.

 

[jonwon]

Thanks for the great advice jonwon. My question for you is did you figure that one out on your own? Because I thought the rest of society goes around telling people to GO into marriage with the WRONG women.

Your sacrasm is wasted on me sadly.

The fact is there are alot of guys, like i was, who dont know the dangers until it is too late, the post was an illustration of what can be, if a man does not know what to avoid.

I was raised by a mother and a father, i had the family unit, i had beliefs around that system, i was walking in a snow-white wonder land that came crashing down in more ways then one, but my ideals still stopped me from seeing the truth and there are plenty of men out there who still 'think' or believe in a fairy tale ideal.

This is the reason alot of guys end up in bad and poor relationships has they dont fully understand until its too late.

So why not look at a bigger picture?

You think i would waste my time and post the obvious if it was that easy to see? No, dont judge others by your own experiance is a danger i came to accept along time ago, the more we learn and adapt the more i believe we 'think' others around us automaticly share the same values and ideals we have developed.

Anyway, what was the reason for the reply?

As for the rest of society, if i followed social ideals and beliefs i would for one still be married and in a bad situation it took a lot of courage and guts to walk away when i did, due to 'programming', i unjacked myself, this guy, well i think there would have been alot of signs prior to the arrest and his life being turned upside down, maybe if he had someone to show him a possible future it may not have gone to that stage at all!

Granted maybe you dont like to read stuff like this, but you cant avoid it, educating people on what could happen if you make the wrong choices is something i will continue to do, even if you think your sarcasm squashes what i will post on here, if you dont like it maybe you can avoid my posts?

Sorry if i am being anal but i have had encounters with my Ex as of late and this stuff is all coming back, lack a tur* that wont flush, i was nieve due to social programming, maybe posts like these will open some ones eyes if there in a bad situation and think marriage will make it better has alot of guys from experiance do.

And one cant deny this forum attracts alot of guys asking the 'what if' type question's.

Maybe this post can be an illustration of 'what can be' if the continue to 'think' all will be peachy as soon has the ring is on the finger, or they can simply ride it out, or give her a second chance, or other things of that nature.

If i wanted to take this to a new level i could link in at least 2-3 recent new posts from guys who feel bad about leaving a poor situation, to boost the message i am trying to give, but i dont think i need to do that anyone can search these boards and see just how commen it is to see threads where men question if they should continue or not in a bad relationship.

At least now they can see a possible future when they have had kids, a house and she decides its now time to get rid in her own little way and there is no denying the average AFC that comes looking for advice, will not be prepared and will not know to what extreames some women will do especcially when there are kids at play as well as the marital home.

This is simply a warning of a possible future, that is why it is essential, you meet a women who has the ut-most 'respect' for you, has this is your greated weapon in the relationship game, not the quality of her puss*y or if she is a ten or a two!

And another thing i have found the most attractive of women are the most vindictive when all is said and done due to the many options that are available to her, no ten has ever lasted over the course of a couple of weeks due to her constant shi* tests and drama creating that a 6-7 would never dream of doing.

I got bored of the 'tens' along time ago, 7-8's will walk over backwards to please 'you' where as a ten expects the reverse in most cases, something to consider when most are looking for the attractive ten to marry!

Yes my ex was smoking! constant drama, i see girls 2 notches down the scale and they cant do enough for me, but i refuse to marry or even get involved, to much messed up wiring that i need to sort out.

 

[KontrollerX]

"so I gave her the "be quiet" hand. (ever seen Fresh Prince of Bel-Aire, when Will puts his hand up and makes a noise like a car slamming on his brakes?)"

A more modern example would be former WWE star The Rock who did this quite frequently lol.

Anyway good conclusion to your story man.

Nice to see that b!tch didn't get to abuse her power after all.

 

[jonwon]

This story rings true to me also, but not even with a girl that I was with.

One night I was in the club. Girls are notorious for cutting in front of you to get a drink. So this bride to be comes up and tries to cut me. I made her aware of what she did and she gave me this, "I'm a bride... A woman should be allowed" crap. Her using this card didn't do anything put pissed me off, so I gave her the "be quiet" hand. (ever seen Fresh Prince of Bel-Aire, when Will puts his hand up and makes a noise like a car slamming on his brakes?)

At this point she goes, "I can get you kicked out of this club you know?" Most of the security and bartenders in the club know me by name, so I'm like "Yeah right! I'd like to see you try" Sure enough she goes to the one guy who I have never seen before in my life and tells him something. The guy comes up to me and says "I'm gonna have to ask you to leave the club".

I nearly lost my damn mind. I ask why and he says that I can't be touching on women inappropriately. "That ***** told you I touched her?" Well buddy, before you start to kick me out, you might wanna talk to the bartender over there, these girls standing right here, and the guy standing right over there, because they all saw what happened. "Sir, I'm still gonna have to ask you to leave." Ok, go get your manager, and police so we can get all this documented officially.

At this point the girls that I pointed out came up and told the guy everything that happened. I was happy they came to my rescue, but pissed at this prick and was definately about to get his boss involved. The girls were cute and it took my mind off of it though. I threatned him really good though. He's damn lucky those girls came. I ended up buying all the girls a drink and we hung out together the rest of the night.

#

I've encountered this as well.

Try doing the reverse and seeing how far you get, it won’t happen.

Its good to know there where other women there who had some level of decency to counter-act the vindictive motives of the biatch who wanted to get one up on you and used the fact she had a puss* to do it.

This is a great example of situations where certain women can exploit men or situations to there advantage.

The good thing out of this, at least now it shows it is probably far better to simply avoid them then get into anything with them, has it's a waste of time.

A few other experiences I have had in the past with this type of stuff:

Sitting in a restaurant with my friend, who is a bit of a ladies man and has scored massive amounts of women in his time has he is not afraid of rejection at all.

Anyway we where sat in this late night restaurant and he compliments a girl, so she starts giving him verbal abuse, he laughs it off which simply made the psycho cow even more angry, what she did next was throw her chips all over him, chips that where covered in ketchup and just think some sad pric* is going to end up marrying this crazy broad.

another time I was in a Q for a taxi and this fat ugly chick is stood at the side of me, she starts talking to me and me being drunk, I told her she had a nice cleavage, in that she went psycho and told me to apologise. I refused has I felt I did nothing wrong, so she tells me to apologise or there will be trouble, I refused, so she goes up to the biggest guy you have ever seen and tells him some shi*, a second later this gorilla is in my face telling me I have 3 seconds to apologise. At this stage a car pulls up with 4 black dudes in it, where this guy goes over and starts talking to them all friendly, at this point I thought I best to apologise to the fat ugly meth and go home has it was not worth what ever was coming over some psycho biatch.

But this is two encounters out of a possible 1000+ approaches I have made in my life.

Fact is the chivilas male is all too willing to jump when some vindictive biatch panders for some attention, allot of women actually get off on this stuff.

I have witnessed women when I was younger 'encourage' males to 'fight' over them in school e.t.c.

Women are not the sugar and spice and all things nice society leads one to believe they are as far as I am concerned just as bad as men.

stay away from low quality women with issues, just walk is something I learned along time ago, I would rather get into an argument with a big burly guy then some psycho chick in a bar with 4-5 AFC'S willing to jump to her defence if it gets heated or she puts on a act.

I have even seen a women running after a guy in the street, punching him repeatedly, she was some slim thing and this guy was huge, he refused to hit her or defend himself, whilst she is screaming like a banshee shouting 'I’ll teach you to call me a biatch', I would not have been that concerned but the guy could have ripped her apart if he wanted to, he simply was trying to get away. The worst thing is, there where people especially women cheering this on.

Don’t get me wrong I have allot of respect for women, but I think its about time guys knew the other side to the female species and saw what they are capable of in this day and age and what to 'avoid'.

 

[Phyzzle]

Anyway we where sat in this late night restaurant and he compliments a girl, so she starts giving him verbal abuse

So, what kind of compliment was it? I think I can guess.

me being drunk, I told her she had a nice cleavage, in that she went psycho and told me to apologise.

Yeah, I think we've learned not to do the sexual innuendo with strangers in the future!!

 

[azanon]

I've always been a risk-taker, by nature, however, when I read posts like this one I start thinking that dealing with women on a long-term basis is much like playing with fire.

The margin for being successful seems very small, with little room for error.

If you are AFC and give into your wife's unrealistic demands (sh!t tests), she'll run out an cheat on you (you lose her attraction and respect)....yet, if you so much as raise your voice to her, you've just created a domestic violence situation.

Wow! No wonder our marriages our miserable these days, and divorce rates sky high!! Marriages are pretty much destined to fail before the words "I do" are even said!

Not only with marriage are men to be monogomous (which can be argued as being against our nature), but marriage now backs a man into a corner and creats a fight or flight survival situation.

I guess the best thing we can do is have a realistic attitude. When it's all said and done, and you are married, you are at the mercy of your wife's values. Bottom line...is she a quality person. Is her value system, at the base level of right or wrong, in synch with yours. Does she believe that hurting others to benefit herself is unethical?

We can't change women, and women can't change us. There has to be some acceptance in our society before we can turn things around, IMO.

Gosh, that's a pretty cynical viewpoint.

Folks, if one marries a random/average woman, heck yeah that's a pretty darn risky thing to do. The average woman isn't worthy of marriage. Of all the women I know, only 10% have the character necessary to be worthy of that level of trust, and that's not even counting all of the other necessary attributes.

Also, your wife is at the mercy of your value system too. The most up-to-date stats show men cheating about twice as much as women in a marriage. Are you suggesting that isn't the case because she could rake you over the coals in divorce? If so, the trick is to be worth more married to her than divorced. IF you are being the man you should be, you will always be more valuable to her married than divorced. I do already have a significant amount of "assets" but, despite that, its plainly clear to her she hasn't seen anything yet. If she "cuts and runs now" she knows that will be a loss even if she got the lion's share of assets.

The margin of success in a marriage with a woman of character is high. I can only speak for myself, but I would only marry an exceptional woman.

Divorce rate statistics mean nothing if you are not "marrying average". They, quite literally, aren't even applicable. Statistics are for average people.

 

[jonwon]

Gosh, that's a pretty cynical viewpoint.

Folks, if one marries a random/average woman, heck yeah that's a pretty darn risky thing to do. The average woman isn't worthy of marriage. Of all the women I know, only 10% have the character necessary to be worthy of that level of trust, and that's not even counting all of the other necessary attributes.

Also, your wife is at the mercy of your value system too. The most up-to-date stats show men cheating about twice as much as women in a marriage. Are you suggesting that isn't the case because she could rake you over the coals in divorce? If so, the trick is to be worth more married to her than divorced. IF you are being the man you should be, you will always be more valuable to her married than divorced. I do already have a significant amount of "assets" but, despite that, its plainly clear to her she hasn't seen anything yet. If she "cuts and runs now" she knows that will be a loss even if she got the lion's share of assets.

The margin of success in a marriage with a woman of character is high. I can only speak for myself, but I would only marry an exceptional woman.

Divorce rate statistics mean nothing if you are not "marrying average". They, quite literally, aren't even applicable. Statistics are for average people.

A very healthy way to approach it.

It always and i mean always starts and ends with 'self', as long has we learn and develop we can strive for something better.

Your ideals are very healthy it is clear not many adopt them, due to many vairables:

wrong programming.
Blind sided.
Wrong impressions.
Bad advice.
e.t.c

I think it is important to look at both sides of the fence so one can see with eyes open and be ready for more eventualities.

Granted one can get swolled up with the negative or the positive, there exists extremes, the healthy find the balance, imo.

one of the reasons i remain single is i cant find that, but someday i hope i do, but then again, do i really care anymore

Its not important either way, unless ofc it ispart of your values.

Marriage is no longer apart of mine, the ratio i see is far lower then 10%, but then again maybe i need to get out more?

Out of all the girls i have seen over the course of the last two years, none and i mean none reached the high values i have developed due to wading through cra*. Are my values too high? possibly!

Anyway, well done to any man who manages to make the marriage thing and LTR successful and a happy one,.

Sadly the older i get the more i think the reality is simply fantasy and is sadly supported by the world around me too.

Cynical? maybe, or simply being truthful of what is around me.

I cant see myself getting married or hitched ever again!

A sad man with poor ideals around women?

possibly, but i enjoy my single life and the more i live the less i want to embrace marriage.

Marriage can be a good thing and so can single life, both are equal, both can be poor its what we make it, the difference is in marriage your options are limited, with being single my options are huge.

I am anti-marriage, i was not, but too many things around that has made me this way, pulled from a snow white fantasy ideal into the cold sharp sting of reality that i slowley morphed to my advantage, now i live like a Batcholer and i plan to never look back.

I have no desire for children either.

'Love' i have no belief in that term, unless it is applied to family, un-coditional is something you get from you parents, your brothers, e.t.c. In a relationship i have seen and witnessed this change like the wind, it is open to expectations of the other, granted this is true for the family unit, but the bonds on them are normally so tight it would take something massive to break them, relationship 'love' from what i see gathers rust, it seems to decay over time, where as family 'love' is there always the same, never changing.

Yes this maybe a bad map or it maybe a truth map, but seeing every marriage break down except for my parents and even that is not so hot, that institution i have little 'faith' in and i think if a women truly ;respects' her man marriage would not be forced by her at all, this is just my belief.

 

[azanon]

A truly powerful person makes himself the center of his universe; picture a man holding a small earth completely encompassed by his two hands. The powerful blames himself for everything and takes credit for everything. The powerful can affect and alter every situation that affects his life.

>Ended up getting a divorce? What did you do wrong. You marry the wrong girl? Not take care of your body? Start having a negative life and push her away? What was it? But she did this or that you say? Then what did you do to lead her to do this or that. Your wife cheat on you? What were you not doing that even allowed her to consider doing such a thing!

>Not get that job? Did you screw the interview up? Not prepare yourself well enough. What did you not do that the other guy (who got the job) did? You didn't get the job for one reason; you screwed something up or you weren't prepared enough yet (say, educationwife or experience wise). Don't do it again; fix it!

Ive never read 48 laws of power, but I know what feels powerful to me. I believe (true or not, irrelevant!) I can affect every single thing in my life. If i have to move a fvcking mountain, I'm going to move it.

If I want to make my marriage work and have a happy marriage, all I have to do is marry wisely and make that happen. All I have to do is be the most outstanding guy possible and my wife wouldn't even dream of doing something to risk losing it much less willfully do so! I have every single day to tell her and teach her the things she needs to know and do to make her the kind of person that will allow her to be the best wife she can possibly be. Wives don't get fat overnight. Wives aren't moved to divorce over night. You ALLOW that s*** to happen over time. Yes, YOU.

I'm not advocating having a negative attitude and accepting blame for everything. On the contrary, I'm advocating having the belief that there is ALWAYS something you can do to improve your situation, and there was most certainly something you could have done better in the past that could have prevented whatever screwups you have in your life now.

For me, I just have to believe I can make my situations better; no profoundly better (if things are not right). I don't think I'd even want to live in a world where i'm powerless to affect it in a substantial and profound way.

My world is exactly what I've made of it. For everything I don't like about it, I only have 3 possible people to blame; me, myself, and I.

 

[jonwon]

A truly powerful person makes himself the center of his universe; picture a man holding a small earth completely encompassed by his two hands. The powerful blames himself for everything and takes credit for everything. The powerful can affect and alter every situation that affects his life.

>Ended up getting a divorce? What did you do wrong. You marry the wrong girl? Not take care of your body? Start having a negative life and push her away? What was it? But she did this or that you say? Then what did you do to lead her to do this or that. Your wife cheat on you? What were you not doing that even allowed her to consider doing such a thing!

>Not get that job? Did you screw the interview up? Not prepare yourself well enough. What did you not do that the other guy (who got the job) did? You didn't get the job for one reason; you screwed something up or you weren't prepared enough yet (say, educationwife or experience wise). Don't do it again; fix it!

Ive never read 48 laws of power, but I know what feels powerful to me. I believe (true or not, irrelevant!) I can affect every single thing in my life. If i have to move a fvcking mountain, I'm going to move it.

If I want to make my marriage work and have a happy marriage, all I have to do is marry wisely and make that happen. All I have to do is be the most outstanding guy possible and my wife wouldn't even dream of doing something to risk losing it much less willfully do so! I have every single day to tell her and teach her the things she needs to know and do to make her the kind of person that will allow her to be the best wife she can possibly be. Wives don't get fat overnight. Wives aren't moved to divorce over night. You ALLOW that s*** to happen over time. Yes, YOU.

I'm not advocating having a negative attitude and accepting blame for everything. On the contrary, I'm advocating having the belief that there is ALWAYS something you can do to improve your situation, and there was most certainly something you could have done better in the past that could have prevented whatever screwups you have in your life now.

For me, I just have to believe I can make my situations better; no profoundly better (if things are not right). I don't think I'd even want to live in a world where i'm powerless to affect it in a substantial and profound way.

My world is exactly what I've made of it. For everything I don't like about it, I only have 3 possible people to blame; me, myself, and I.

I hear what your saying.

At one time i had these same beliefs and i am sure many others did too.

You can make sure your choices are as good as you can and make sure marriage will work, but sadly every situation i have encountered with the holier the ho' attitude results in a lot of cases of a man, who lives in denial has his wife takes him apart or the relationship breaks down, but he is so 'perfect' he does not see the 'truth', 'ego' is a dangerous thing, expeccially when we think we have reached perfection and cant fathom that could happen (well it does), regardless how 'good' you are.


I know no few who are successfully married, even then i hear the guy biatch about his nagging wife, granted they get moments of bliss, but most married men i see, put in late hours, work longer days, work more to A:
Avoid the nagging wife back home.
B:
Get a promotion so they can support the family unit
C:
Or they have nothing else to do.

Now as a single guy i dont have to worry about conforming to some ideal.

you know its alwasy the potential married guys or married guys who 'think' guys who shy away from marriage have some unhealthy ideal, well i 'think' the guys who shy away have learned to not allow themselves to put there hand back in the fire as it burns, or has potential to burn.

Maybe this is a jaded ideal, but i know NO ONE who is happily married and even if they say they are due to putting on a public act, if you look deeper there not 'happier' or better off being married if they are 'happier' it is no different to any other guy out there.

When all is said and done it is fine becoming the greatest man on the planet in terms of what a women would desire, in a husband, but still there is no 'guarantee' she will still stick around regardless of the holier then ho' attitude, when it comes to human nature this is not a simple set of variables where performing routine A can achieve B, this is open to many variables which are constantly changing and shifting.

Granted i dont embrace marriage ideals, at least i have experianced it enough to know single life is far superior then any other form, but i am 'I' you are you, your experiances could be different, but i base my experiances on the world around me and the world is telling me marriage is a dying concept.

If it was possible to put shares in marriage i would not even stick 5pence into it, the signs are everywhere and the concepts and values around marriage if we carry on like this will be dead in about 2-3 generations, this is see and this i believe, so why worry about a dying or defuct system?

May as well enjoy forming a new form of existance, i know i have and i tell you what, there is nothing wrong or unhealthy about choosing the single life, it has many benifits (single but still enjoy female company, you dont have to marry them). Like it or not more and more guys are embracing this concept, so the fact remains.

Now the potential married indocterined think its fine to marry and the 'thought' is on marriage as the social norm.

In time.

This will be reversed and only the insane would even think about such a venture. especcially in this day and age.

I dont blame women, i blame societies need to get involved in the marital proccess this has been the fall of marriage and they keep doing it, ever more, if anything its getting more and more prominent then slowing down, until attitudes change marriage is a bad investment to any 'man' imo.

On a side note, i dont have to live my life to embrace the concept of slotting into being the perfect husband, i am out of that loop and i am thankful for it.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

Yo JONWON,


Thanks for the original post, man. And thanks for giving a fukk and being HONEST about some of the shyt you have encountered on your life's mission. And I hear you loud and clear too.

I recognize that what you're saying is that men should always PROCEED into any type of LTR/Marriage with both eyes open----IF they decide to proceed at all.

I think the danger with most men is that sometimes when "we" are blinded by EMOTION, fantasy, and our rigid Idealology that we ignore things about ourselves and our women that we should be paying CLOSE attention to.

So yeah, words of caution are ALWAYS in order, I believe. We NEED to hear shyt like this from time to time------NOT to depress ourselves, but to keep ourselves HONEST with ourselves.


March on.

 

[STR8UP]

Folks, if one marries a random/average woman, heck yeah that's a pretty darn risky thing to do. The average woman isn't worthy of marriage.

Let me guess....your wife is "different"?

Not saying she is or she isn't, but that's what EVERYONE says.

I'm just sayin'.....

 

[azanon]

Let me guess....your wife is "different"?

Not saying she is or she isn't, but that's what EVERYONE says.

I'm just sayin'.....

Different, as in her behavior not being applicable to anything the OP or follow-up posters mentioned that was deragatory towards women? Yes. But I don't think by any means, she's one of a kind. I don't think for a minute I found the needle in the haystack. Quite the contrary, I think there are many like her out there. He**, I've met and know several other women whom I socialize with that are potentially every bit as much a woman of equal character to my wife.

So, please don't imply the intent of my post was to brag. It simply wasn't. The intent was to rain on you guys pity party and start getting some of you to reconsider who is really to blame here.

 

[azanon]

Maybe this is a jaded ideal, but i know NO ONE who is happily married and even if they say they are due to putting on a public act, if you look deeper there not 'happier' or better off being married if they are 'happier' it is no different to any other guy out there.

The only thing I can think of here is either evaluate who you choose to hang around or maybe its explained by the part of the country you live in. I know several happily married people, and I'm confident its not just a facade.

When all is said and done it is fine becoming the greatest man on the planet in terms of what a women would desire, in a husband, but still there is no 'guarantee' she will still stick around regardless of the holier then ho' attitude, when it comes to human nature this is not a simple set of variables where performing routine A can achieve B, this is open to many variables which are constantly changing and shifting.

When did life start including guarantees? There's no guarantee I'll make it to work safely, yet I reason it worth the risk.

There ARE several things you can do, contingency-wise, to protect yourself as much as possible financially in the event of the worst. Of, if you insist, just use a pre-nup. Drawn up correctly, those things are air-tight.

>I have nothing against one choosing a single life. This is not a case of right or wrong. What's right for you, is the relevant question.

I dont blame women, i blame societies need to get involved in the marital proccess this has been the fall of marriage and they keep doing it, ever more, if anything its getting more and more prominent then slowing down, until attitudes change marriage is a bad investment to any 'man' imo.

I can only ask that you speak for yourself. I assure you, it has not been a bad investment for me.

 

[jonwon]

The only thing I can think of here is either evaluate who you choose to hang around or maybe its explained by the part of the country you live in. I know several happily married people, and I'm confident its not just a facade.

My friends relation's e.t.c are just as 'healthy' has you 'think' you are, i posted about the holier the ho' attitude before. i dont have to re-evalute myself as much has i accept 'you' dont either.

i simply have had different experiances then you have, i am not wrong and neither are you' the rules are not black and white, so there is nothing to evalute the simple fact is:

My life experiance has led me to the conclusion marriage is a waste of time and a poor investment, that is not 'wrong' to me that is 'right' and i like that ideal, has it has released me from the pressure of catering to a social construct, which i feel has been destroyed by social pressure's, heavily influenced by the police state type systems we have around us.

You think your in control? Open your eyes is all i am saying, your women or any random women could cry rap* rape today on you, there is a high chance you could loose an awful lot, whist she walks scot free and the only thing you did was tell her not to be rude has she pushed you at the bar.

This is 'reality' and is prominent and around if you 'look' so i have my eyes open, not SHUT, where they once where.

I know the dangers, does it stop me enjoying women, hell no, but at least i know what can be and am not ignorant to what the media and society paint about a nice cushy rosy picture.

Believe it or not, your a dying breed, marriage is being destroyed it is evident, granted you find a nice women, good for you! You live the dream what has been spun to you since birth, get married re-produce,e.t.c find love.

Me tried it been there, not just marriage but the whole dating thing, sorry i fail to see what the fuss was about, if anything it was 'worse' then single life, maybe my single life is 'richer' then most or all my relationships have been cra*? who knows, all i know is the conclusion i am left with and that is:

i have not met a women i could see myself spending the rest of my life with, marriage is simply a man made ideal spun to you! What came first the chicken or the egg? this is marriage and what people think about it, we came first, everything else we 'created'!

Anyway, i like my values, they are not wrong and the fact the people i know have failed marriage does mean they did not follow packet A and achieved packet B, it simply did not work, so the fact is yours is working means there must be something wrong and i should change who i assocciate with is rather jaded and almost insulting in a way, has it suggests your ideals are superior to mine and the people who embraced marriage and it did not work, but yours has! Well i hope it lasts, but having lived here almost 32 years i know the odds are NOT IN YOUR FAVOUR, if you like to read it or not. From my experiance, but then again, maybe you live somewhere where there are two point four children running around and snowy white lawns, with the husband and wife ideal of:

honey i'm home!

sorry but i dont see it.

Oh another story to add.

A guy who i thought was happily married at work, i asked a question lead on by this post i created.

It turns out this guy works SEVEN days a week, i was thinking he had or was one of the few who had it good, turns out this is not so. he works weekends to get away from the wife and kids! lol, i mean lol! I can do what i want, all because i dont want to be tied to that social norm.

There ARE several things you can do, contingency-wise, to protect yourself as much as possible financially in the event of the worst. Of, if you insist, just use a pre-nup. Drawn up correctly, those things are air-tight.

>I have nothing against one choosing a single life. This is not a case of right or wrong. What's right for you, is the relevant question.

i am sorry but i am no legal expert but i have been told plenty of time and seen this scattered about, pre-nups are not worth the paper there printed on.

also if you 'think' a pre-nup is needed it defeats the whole purpose of 'marriage' anyway. Its like sticking a band aid on a possible wound, your opening up 'doubt' if i ever get married again, THERE MUST BE NO DOUBT.

Screw a pre-nup, its just another poor invention that advocates a poor system, where by further tying you into lawyers and state control, the reason marriage is almost dead is becouse of this, why encourage it.

what's next when pre-nups have been traversed?

A pre-nup-phase-two, to protect your pre-nup.

Its stuff like this that 'proves' marriage is simply a waste of time.

I can only ask that you speak for yourself. I assure you, it has not been a bad investment for me.

Good for you, i hope it lasts, i think you show it is what you want.

Clearly you can see, its not what i want.

Your right.

But dont fall into the trap of thinking, i am wrong, i am right also, when you married types with your marriage think accept this, maybe, just maybe i could listen to your type drone on about your perfect life in a bar' then tell me five minutes later you have to be in for 'ten' and hold in my laugh, which does happen, or tell me you cant go out this weekend, e.t.c, e.t.c.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I was listening to a talk radio show out here last night driving home. The chumps on the radio are known for 'helping' guys with their "advice" so I figured I'd listen to what they were preaching. On comes this guy of about 27 who's got a problem. He split with his fiancé because, as he described it, he got cold feet and she got fed up. In their separation time she "became pregnant" with another man's child who she'd had a fling with in his absence. Now the woman wants to come back to him and he want's to "do the right thing finally" by marrying her despite her pregnancy. As if this weren't enough, the guy reveals that she had also had two sons with a previous BF and he was considering marrying her inspite of this as well (my guess is this is where the cold feet came from).

These guru's advice? "Well, if you really love her man, you should go for it. You should be the better man and she'll be kissing your ass for a long time after all this." I about drove my 4Runner into a ditch when I heard this. Here were 2 or 3 grown men in presumably in their 40s advocating that this guy, in essence, make one of the most catastrophic decisions in his life. Here were these talk show host encouraging him to marry into this disaster.

I wanted to call the show, but I refuse to drive and use my cell phone, particularly at night. But then what would I have said that would've convinced these men, so deeply embedded in the Matrix for so long, of the severity of their error? It's not marriage that's the problem, it's the Matrix that is. I wanted with all my soul to call this guy and say "WTF ARE YOU DOING?!! because this isn't the first AFC I've known in a similar situation, nor are these the first aging AFCs to proffer the same do-the-right-thing "advice."

You can still find examples of people with good, mature, secure and positive marriages. I'd like to count myself as fortunate enough to be in one myself for the past 11 years. But what is damaging is not having a healthy understanding of what is required from yourself and your spouse to make a marriage a joy rather than a prison. Mothers and Fathers are simply not teaching their sons & daughters what the very real responsibilities, liabilities and accountabilities are in order to make a marriage beneficial, because all too often they were never taught by their Mothers and Fathers. Marriage is a racket now because of the Matrix.

 

[azanon]

My friends relation's e.t.c are just as 'healthy' has you 'think' you are, i posted about the holier the ho' attitude before.

Who's more likely to accurately access my marriage; me, or some internet dude that doesn't even know me?

Insecure people frequently view secure people as haughty, as a means of explaining the disparity. Its the wrong explanation, but that's what happens.

My life experiance has led me to the conclusion marriage is a waste of time and a poor investment

I wish I were equally skilled at telling someone their conclusions are wrong in a diplomatic fashion as I am at picking quality women, but I'm not. Its a definite weakness of mine.

You think your in control? Open your eyes is all i am saying, your women or any random women could cry rap* rape today on you, there is a high chance you could loose an awful lot, whist she walks scot free and the only thing you did was tell her not to be rude has she pushed you at the bar.

I acknowledged earlier that "living life" includes its risks. But I don't believe the solution to that risk is to simply "disengage" from certain aspects of life.

Believe it or not, your a dying breed, marriage is being destroyed it is evident, granted you find a nice women, good for you! You live the dream what has been spun to you since birth, get married re-produce,e.t.c find love.

Yes I realize pessimism is gaining strength every day. Your posts and those who will agree with it proves that point. I have said many times I buck the trend; that I am not average. "Average" in America is pretty pathetic; I've said/suggested as much many times.

Anyway, i like my values, they are not wrong and the fact the people i know have failed marriage does mean they did not follow packet A and achieved packet B, it simply did not work, so the fact is yours is working means there must be something wrong and i should change who i assocciate with is rather jaded and almost insulting in a way, has it suggests your ideals are superior to mine and the people who embraced marriage and it did not work, but yours has!

If the case was that I might have "ideas that are superior to yours", then you could respond in one of 2 ways; 1. get defensive and/or feel insulted 2. adopt them and/or consider altering some of your inferior ideas.

Should I apologize if I have a better idea than someone else? You tell me?

A guy who i thought was happily married at work, i asked a question lead on by this post i created.

It turns out this guy works SEVEN days a week, i was thinking he had or was one of the few who had it good, turns out this is not so. he works weekends to get away from the wife and kids! lol, i mean lol! I can do what i want, all because i dont want to be tied to that social norm.

I work 35 hrs a week and can't wait to get home and see my wife of 14 years and child * shrug * Maybe I should lie about this so that your point is validated?

i am sorry but i am no legal expert but i have been told plenty of time and seen this scattered about, pre-nups are not worth the paper there printed on.

Perhaps * shrug * I wouldn't marry a woman I didn't trust anyway, so I only speak of them in theory or for those that would marry someone they don't trust.

also if you 'think' a pre-nup is needed it defeats the whole purpose of 'marriage' anyway. Its like sticking a band aid on a possible wound, your opening up 'doubt' if i ever get married again, THERE MUST BE NO DOUBT

Screw a pre-nup, its just another poor invention that advocates a poor system, where by further tying you into lawyers and state control, the reason marriage is almost dead is becouse of this, why encourage it.

I agree. I brought it up because you seem to have trust issues, not me.

But dont fall into the trap of thinking, i am wrong, i am right also, when you married types with your marriage think accept this, maybe, just maybe i could listen to your type drone on about your perfect life in a bar' then tell me five minutes later you have to be in for 'ten' and hold in my laugh, which does happen, or tell me you cant go out this weekend, e.t.c, e.t.c.

Actually, I do think your overt pessimism toward marriage is misguided at best.

I never claimed my life and/or marriage to be perfect, so feel free to steer what i'm saying in a despirate attempt to discredit me. That's probably a logical fallacy but i'm too lazy to look that one up at the moment.

I can go out whenever I want, with whomever I want.

 

[azanon]

I was listening to a talk radio show out here last night driving home. The chumps on the radio are known for 'helping' guys with their "advice" so I figured I'd listen to what they were preaching. On comes this guy of about 27 who's got a problem. He split with his fiancé because, as he described it, he got cold feet and she got fed up. In their separation time she "became pregnant" with another man's child who she'd had a fling with in his absence. Now the woman wants to come back to him and he want's to "do the right thing finally" by marrying her despite her pregnancy. As if this weren't enough, the guy reveals that she had also had two sons with a previous BF and he was considering marrying her inspite of this as well (my guess is this is where the cold feet came from).

These guru's advice? "Well, if you really love her man, you should go for it. You should be the better man and she'll be kissing your ass for a long time after all this." I about drove my 4Runner into a ditch when I heard this. Here were 2 or 3 grown men in presumably in their 40s advocating that this guy, in essence, make one of the most catastrophic decisions in his life. Here were these talk show host encouraging him to marry into this disaster.

I wanted to call the show, but I refuse to drive and use my cell phone, particularly at night. But then what would I have said that would've convinced these men, so deeply embedded in the Matrix for so long, of the severity of their error? It's not marriage that's the problem, it's the Matrix that is. I wanted with all my soul to call this guy and say "WTF ARE YOU DOING?!! because this isn't the first AFC I've known in a similar situation, nor are these the first aging AFCs to proffer the same do-the-right-thing "advice."

You can still find examples of people with good, mature, secure and positive marriages. I'd like to count myself as fortunate enough to be in one myself for the past 11 years. But what is damaging is not having a healthy understanding of what is required from yourself and your spouse to make a marriage a joy rather than a prison. Mothers and Fathers are simply not teaching their sons & daughters what the very real responsibilities, liabilities and accountabilities are in order to make a marriage beneficial, because all too often they were never taught by their Mothers and Fathers. Marriage is a racket now because of the Matrix.

You are wise beyond your years.

........

So how is the book coming along? Hope you decide to finish it.

 

[jonwon]

Who's more likely to accurately access my marriage; me, or some internet dude that doesn't even know me?

Insecure people frequently view secure people as haughty, as a means of explaining the disparity. Its the wrong explanation, but that's what happens.



I wish I were equally skilled at telling someone their conclusions are wrong in a diplomatic fashion as I am at picking quality women, but I'm not. Its a definite weakness of mine.



I acknowledged earlier that "living life" includes its risks. But I don't believe the solution to that risk is to simply "disengage" from certain aspects of life.



Yes I realize pessimism is gaining strength every day. Your posts and those who will agree with it proves that point. I have said many times I buck the trend; that I am not average. "Average" in America is pretty pathetic; I've said/suggested as much many times.



If the case was that I might have "ideas that are superior to yours", then you could respond in one of 2 ways; 1. get defensive and/or feel insulted 2. adopt them and/or consider altering some of your inferior ideas.

Should I apologize if I have a better idea than someone else? You tell me?



I work 35 hrs a week and can't wait to get home and see my wife of 14 years and child * shrug * Maybe I should lie about this so that your point is validated?



Perhaps * shrug * I wouldn't marry a woman I didn't trust anyway, so I only speak of them in theory or for those that would marry someone they don't trust.



I agree. I brought it up because you seem to have trust issues, not me.



Actually, I do think your overt pessimism toward marriage is misguided at best.

I never claimed my life and/or marriage to be perfect, so feel free to steer what i'm saying in a despirate attempt to discredit me. That's probably a logical fallacy but i'm too lazy to look that one up at the moment.

I can go out whenever I want, with whomever I want.

Azanzon, i don’t think your fully grasping what I am trying to tell you here.

This sums up the reason why I think your not fully understanding what I am trying to say.


I agree. I brought it up because you seem to have trust issues, not me.
and
Actually, I do think your overt pessimism toward marriage is misguided at best.

The point I am trying to make, is my life experiences in your eyes are pessimistic towards and ideal you HAVE, this is not my ideal.

So to you it would seem pessimistic has your ingrained into the marriage ideal, me I got involved in it in truth, when I am true to myself to see what all the fuss was about and it was the thing to do, due to everyone else around me doing it too, much like the advice from the radio presenter, the fact is this is the NORMALITY, so I can forgive guys who think I am jaded, or misguided or have wrong programming around marriage.

to me my programming is correct and I like it this way, I have no desire for children, I have intention of coming home to a wife, it does not interest me, I think I was secretly a product of my own marriage break down to a large degree has it does not suit me, the added fact is, if you like it or not, the STATE i.e your government has put there foot too far into the marital door, making marriage a state investment rather then a closing of companionship.

now I state I have nothing wrong with spending time with women, I don’t date in the term people use has I currently enjoy spending time with more then one women, I don’t think its fair to them to be exclusive, so I don’t state that.

But I don’t need to be married to enjoy the fruits of marriage, if you think I do, your clearly mistaken.

You see its the married types that almost make me grind my teeth with futile, arguments to state my points of:

Single life is a pleasure.

To you married and want and need a women types, this is Alien to you, you can’t accept a man can be happy doing his own thing and seeing women when ever he sees fit, not every day, good or bad or indifferent.

I have accepted what I am, I feel I don’t need to explain myself, but more and more I see the married few, thinking guys like me are the afflicted, if you could see it from my point of view I see guys like you has the afflicted, but currently your 'think' is normality where has my think is gaining ground.

more and more guys are like me, the difference is mine is through CHOICE, granted there are guys out there who cant get a women at all, boo hoo to them, but you married folk think, this label applies to all, there is either something wrong with the guy or he cant pull anyway.

It never crosses your mind that, guys like this can exist pretty dam well without a women and don’t need one, unless its for sexual gratification or some company now and again, I don’t have to 'keep' her or marry her to enjoy her.

This is the reason, why I see posts where my ideals are jaded, sorry bud, but to me yours are the ideas that are wrong.

I tell this to the indoctrinate AFC and they always associate it with me having bad experiences, even if that was the case, I still have never ever been happier single then I have been with any LTR, they always eventually bore me or don’t stand the test of time.

again you will read the paragraph and state there is something wrong with me, sorry but the fact is I believe men are not monogamous, you designed or women I believe over the course of history orchestrated the life long companionship of male and female and used Love to spin the web.

Granted I can still enjoy and love a women for a long time, but I would be a FOOL to think I can make that last a life time, has in my belief I believe it goes against Nature.

With solid foundations one can dam up the human instincts, especially the men’s urge to 'spread' the seed, if I am blunt, but the fact remains, why build the dam in the first place?

Your ideals and values, build that, mine don’t, there is no dam, as I don’t need one and never will.

Still you will think this is wrong, sorry to me that is RIGHT.

Your reaction to my anti-marrige is most probably the same reaction i get from your pro-marriage.