Bootcamps aren't the answer

[wachovia]

They’re taking you further off course. Let’s first look at the premise of these exercises. Conventional wisdom has led people to believe saying “Hi” and establishing eye contact with 50 random people over the duration of the week is beneficial, following by taking a huge leap of faith the next week and actually starting conversations with these people.

Am I the only one that sees something seriously wrong here? Normal people receive these kind of interactions from people they know - whether it be from family, friends, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, etc. Do you not converse with these people? Do you not HAVE these people? And if you do, why are you approaching strangers? People you’ve never seen before and never will talk to again, instead of the people that are right in front of you.

It’s actually hindering your progress by further distancing yourself from normal, everyday situational intercommunications.

This is not a confidence issue – this is someone who is socially dysfunctional. The only ones who should be following those types of exercises are people who wear fanny packs and have slobber coming out of their mouths.

 

[Ease]

I wish you would stop making strange posts.

I dont understand your logic at all.


First of all, what does this have to do with bootcamps.

And second, what are you talking about? Why are you trying to tell people that approaching is bad. Please stop talking nonsense.

 

[Jblitz59]

i totally agree.

Let me explain his view.

Instead of working on the basic elementary approaches, he is saying to FOCUS on the more advanced conversationalism. Which means how to LISTEN and how to have a MEANINGFUL conversation. Fluff and canned lines are not included

 

[Thyme]

jblitz i interpreted what he said a little differently: i think (its not really clear to me though) that he is saying that we are wasting our time working on people that we will never see again, when we should instead be focusing our time and efforts on those that are already in our life. ?? idk thats what i think??

 

[yuppaz]

I disagree with this post. For me personally when I meet someone that I haven't ever seen before, and have a conversation it subconsciously helps me feel that meeting other people isn't a bad thing. I have had great success from cold approaches in all forms, from brief interactions to dating etc. I think that the whole "Hi" thing is fine if you are very shy and in your shell, but also think that you need to push yourself out of your comfort zone and more things forward to grow as a person, so just don't stop there. The truth is that you can meet someone and quickly get to know them / screen them in a few minutes and follow through with it / get to know them better later. I don't have a whole lot of social game, but make up for it cold and women are in awe of you if you have enough balls to approach them and close the deal (in one way or another),that alone can give you major p*ssy points. It also helps in everyday life to be reminded that all people are just people and a lot of them are pretty nice & worth getting to know.

 

[Perry]

jblitz and thyme, i also interpreted this a little differently than both of you. i believe that he thinks its pointless to talk to strangers that you will never see again because of the fact that you will not have any type of relationship with them. you wont even be acquaintances with them at the very least. thats what you said thyme.

the family, friends, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, etc. that he mentions should be the only people we converse with in life since we wont need to talk to anyone else. i completely disagree with the OP's post because he basically doesnt think we need to come out of our comfort zone to improve not only our game, but our social skills in general. your social skills dont improve by only talking to the people that you are comfortable with.

for example, in college the best way to improve social skills is by talking to random people about anything. if you are always talking to new people you will get so much better at speaking. i have no idea how doing bootcamps would "hinder your progress"

 

[yuppaz]

I actually do think that bootcamps have screwed some people up in the past, but only the ones where there is an instructor, they psych up the student and get him making out with some chick for $2,500, at the time he feels golden like a light came on in his head, but then he loses that state and motivation and finds he has never actually grown at all. I think you honestly need consistent practice, failures and success to get better.

 

[base2ball2boy2]

Okay, let me interject my opinion here. I think that wachovia is both right and wrong. Let me elaborate...

I think we first need to take a step back and look at the concept of a bootcamp. When you think of a bootcamp, you probably think of a military bootcamp. From what I've read about bootcamps (having never attended one in my life), I see it as a rigid program designed to get you into shape.

With that in mind, we can now apply it to the DJ perspective. I see the DJ bootcamp as a way for the really frustrated AFC's and the ultra-n00bs to get into the game. wachovia has a point- if you're a normal human being, being reduced to only smiling at 50 attractive girls a week will hinder your social skills. But say you're 25 years old, live with your mother, and she's the only girl you've kissed. THAT'S when it will come in handy.

I myself have never been a part of bootcamps for that reason- I do not feel the need to attended one. My social skills are adequate, and my DJ skills are growing. I think some people tend to misinterpret the DJ bootcamp. For in my opinion, if you're not a total loner (or hitting middle age in your mom's basement), then a bootcamp is not for you. But the whole concept of the bootcamp is not completely awful. It will help only the most extreme cases of Social Phobia. So therefore, wachovia is both right and wrong.

Class is dismissed.

 

[horaholic]

No. The OP has it all wrong. Making yourself feel comfortable interacting with strangers is the best thing one can do for their game.

To the OP. How many women do you approach a week? If it is many, then, you have little approach anxiety, and dont understand people who do, therfore you cant give an opinion on bootacamps.

If you dont approach many women, then you still cant talk, cuz you aren't approaching at all.

Either way, your point is redundant.

Im a social person, but I have serious approach anxiety, and thus dont get laid nearly as much as I could. I dont do the bootcamps, cuz I lack the discipline, even though I know it would help.

 

[Perry]

ok but the bootcamp isnt just about smiling at girls. thats only one of the first steps. the later steps have you interacting with girls and eventually going after their number. im not sure what the last steps are but they are probably along the lines of fvcking girls. last time i checked fvking girls was what most guys wish to do, but dont do often, if ever.

 

[Ganondorf]

Bootcamps are to help shy people who have approach anxiety to improve and be more comfortable talking to people you don't know

If all you do is stay in your comfort zone and approach chicks you already know then you'll never improve

I've tried it an it works, approaching strangers that is. My social skills are already good, I just need to work on approaching girls I don't know

Like an above poster said, in my case doing a bootcamp will not help because it would be useless for me to go around saying Hi to 50 hot women when I could be trying to game them instead

you've got the right Idea, but just delivered it the wrong way
Life is about pushing your envelope

 

[Mr. Bond]

It's all about getting used to meeting new people. Don't like boot camp? Don't do it.

 

[Deniska]

If you never flew an airplane, would you able to fly a 747 with 200 passengers on board? No.

The point of boot camp is to start you of nice and easy at step 1, a classroom. With time and practice you learn to fly well enough, so when you are at level 10, you'll confidently sit you ass in to pilots seat and fly a 747 through thunder storm safely to its final destination.

 

[BigWillyStyle]

They’re taking you further off course. Let’s first look at the premise of these exercises. Conventional wisdom has led people to believe saying “Hi” and establishing eye contact with 50 random people over the duration of the week is beneficial, following by taking a huge leap of faith the next week and actually starting conversations with these people.

Am I the only one that sees something seriously wrong here? Normal people receive these kind of interactions from people they know - whether it be from family, friends, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, etc. Do you not converse with these people? Do you not HAVE these people? And if you do, why are you approaching strangers? People you’ve never seen before and never will talk to again, instead of the people that are right in front of you.

It’s actually hindering your progress by further distancing yourself from normal, everyday situational intercommunications.

This is not a confidence issue – this is someone who is socially dysfunctional. The only ones who should be following those types of exercises are people who wear fanny packs and have slobber coming out of their mouths

I completely agree with this. The gripe I have with these so-called "bootcamps" is that those who undertake them are, more often than not, socially inept. Now, approaching a stranger and making small-talk requires much tact for it to not come off as awkard for both parties, but even with much tact there will always be a level of awkardness with such machinated attempts. Obviously the socially inept lack tact in such encounters, consequently making such attempts even more awkard; and thus the approacher will often receive negative feedback from from these encounters, thereby reducing his self-confidence even further.

As the original poster said, you should receive these interactions with people who you know or have a common-ground with (e.g., co-workers, neighbours, classmates). Even if you're such a social misfit that you don't have friends, you don't have a job--you all have neighbours, you all know SOMEOME... expand your networks from these people, increase your confidence from these people.

So why waste time with strangers when you can gain SO much more from doing this with those you know?

 

[Ganondorf]

I completely agree with this. The gripe I have with these so-called "bootcamps" is that those who undertake them are, more often than not, socially inept. Now, approaching a stranger and making small-talk requires much tact for it to not come off as awkard for both parties, but even with much tact there will always be a level of awkardness with such machinated attempts. Obviously the socially inept lack tact in such encounters, consequently making such attempts even more awkard; and thus the approacher will often receive negative feedback from from these encounters, thereby reducing his self-confidence even further.

As the original poster said, you should receive these interactions with people who you know or have a common-ground with (e.g., co-workers, neighbours, classmates). Even if you're such a social misfit that you don't have friends, you don't have a job--you all have neighbours, you all know SOMEOME... expand your networks from these people, increase your confidence from these people.

So why waste time with strangers when you can gain SO much more from doing this with those you know?

You know how in grade school they always made you work with someone new? Like how they told you to pick a new partner instead of just your friends all the time? To sit with someone new at lunch? etc?

Yea, It's kinda like that. Sure, you can have a ball with people you know, but From my experience you never really mature or improve if you limit yourself solely to those that you already know. I never Got My confidence from my family, friends at school, they already knew me, it was nothing to challenge me. I got more confident when I pushed outside my comfort zone and started opening up to strangers. Not being scared to walk up to a girl and talk to her is the point of a boot camp

 

[wachovia]

You know how in grade school they always made you work with someone new? Like how they told you to pick a new partner instead of just your friends all the time? To sit with someone new at lunch? etc?

Are we in grade school?

 

[BigWillyStyle]

QUOTE]Sure, you can have a ball with people you know, but From my experience you never really mature or improve if you limit yourself solely to those that you already know.[/QUOTE]

Which is why I said one should EXPAND from the people they currently know. You will meet others through your current friends. You will meet others through your co-workers. They will also initially be strangers. However, you will have a far better response with these strangers than those you impose yourself upon at a shopping centre. Moreover, isn't this type of networking more conducive to establishing greater self-confidence, if that's what you're after.

Not being scared to walk up to a girl and talk to her is the point of a boot camp

Well, if it works for you then keep doing it. But it seems that most guys on this site who try this "cold approaching" get shot down more than they have success (and then suffer the inevitable frustration).You'll have a better chance of getting in with a girl if you can ingratiate yourself into her network.

 

[Ganondorf]

QUOTE]Sure, you can have a ball with people you know, but From my experience you never really mature or improve if you limit yourself solely to those that you already know.

Which is why I said one should EXPAND from the people they currently know. You will meet others through your current friends. You will meet others through your co-workers. They will also initially be strangers. However, you will have a far better response with these strangers than those you impose yourself upon at a shopping centre. Moreover, isn't this type of networking more conducive to establishing greater self-confidence, if that's what you're after.

Well, if it works for you then keep doing it. But it seems that most guys on this site who try this "cold approaching" get shot down more than they have success (and then suffer the inevitable frustration).You'll have a better chance of getting in with a girl if you can ingratiate yourself into her network.[/QUOTE]


Of course the shoot down rate for cold approaches is pretty high for noobs, but they purpose is to help them over come the fear of getting shot down so that it won't be so scary for them anymore

and really, if you get shot down, who cares? move on to the next girl. there's to many to only worry about one, or even a few

Sure you can expand your social network through friends and family, and yes you could get a little confidence from it, But Like I told wachovia, Life is abut pushing comfort zones. Most girls I've been with were complete strangers before I met them. The grade school analogy meant that you should learn to be comfortable meeting new people on your own and expand yourself beyond just a social group. You are comfortable with your friends, you should learn to be comfortable anywhere, not just with people you know

And I mean it's not like you won't get shot down within a social group. We all know about the horror that most call the "friend zone". I don't think friend zone is that bad, but most guys here don't want to end up like that. That's why they have to make their intentions known. That's why boot camps help them, it helps them not be afraid to make the move.

 

[ketostix]

Am I the only one that sees something seriously wrong here? Normal people receive these kind of interactions from people they know -

whether it be from family, friends, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, etc. Do you not converse with these people?

Do you not HAVE these people? And if you do, why are you approaching strangers? People you’ve never seen before and never will talk to again, instead of the people that are right in front of you.

The end goal of approaching women who are strangers is to get sex or start a romantic relationship. So you can throw out family and friends and it's inadvisable to date at work. So what are we left with out of your list classmates and neighbors. You know some people aren't in school anymore and don't have a neighbor they want to fvck.

It’s actually hindering your progress by further distancing yourself from normal, everyday situational intercommunications.

How so? You can do both. Besides that I don't think bootcamps preclude you talking to people at school , in your neighborhood, or wherever else you believe is "acceptable".

This is not a confidence issue – this is someone who is socially dysfunctional. The only ones who should be following those types of exercises are people who wear fanny packs and have slobber coming out of their mouths.

I think I see your bias now. You're probably a female troll. In your mind it's "socially dysfunctional" for a man to see a woman and want to fvck her. And take the steps to make it happen, and gasp, approach a stranger in some public area.

 

[thedoc]

They’re taking you further off course. Let’s first look at the premise of these exercises. Conventional wisdom has led people to believe saying “Hi” and establishing eye contact with 50 random people over the duration of the week is beneficial, following by taking a huge leap of faith the next week and actually starting conversations with these people.

Am I the only one that sees something seriously wrong here? Normal people receive these kind of interactions from people they know - whether it be from family, friends, neighbors, classmates, co-workers, etc. Do you not converse with these people? Do you not HAVE these people? And if you do, why are you approaching strangers? People you’ve never seen before and never will talk to again, instead of the people that are right in front of you.

It’s actually hindering your progress by further distancing yourself from normal, everyday situational intercommunications.

This is not a confidence issue – this is someone who is socially dysfunctional. The only ones who should be following those types of exercises are people who wear fanny packs and have slobber coming out of their mouths.

There is a HUGE difference between interacting with people you know and people you don't.

I think I see your point in your last paragraph, but someone who's socially dysfunctional certainly lacks self-confidence (unless they were born with some kind of mental defect, in that case, the boot camp might be useless and a psychiatrist might be more beneficial).

Now let's talk about the normal guy who just lacks self-confidence. There are plenty of reasons why he lacks self-confidence. For example, he may have had an abusive family. Okay, he starts school with a low self-esteem and low self-confidence. And we all know that only snowballs. For this person, the bootcamp can and does certainly help. It in a way helps them "recover" and leads them through what they've been missing our in their lives before.