Rule: Don't Hang Out With Her Friends!!!!

Until she's either your gf/fb/already had sex with her.

Let me explain one of the simplest rules out there that so many guys seem to miss that ends up putting them in the friend zone. I keep seeing this problem on the forums and haven't found something that explains it from a psychological point of view.


RULE: DO NOT HANGOUT WITH WOMEN + FRIENDS UNLESS SHES YOUR GF/FB/ALREADY HAD SEX WITH HER!

Psychologically speaking there is a HUGE difference between
a) boy + girl
b) boy + girl + friends

When you ask out a girl there is a psychological tone that is set with both of you that is very important which is that YOU ARE GOING OUT ON A DATE!

A date is for a man and a woman to scope each other out for a possible romantic relationship. It sets a very important precedent right from the start. It's one of the first and major step towards romance. You asking a girl out on a date immediately raises her thoughts about you as a possible romantic partner. If she agrees on a date she already sees you as attractive enough to be her man. Whether anything happens it's up to you and how you game her but we are not dealing with that in this thread.


BOY + GIRL = DATE

You are excited that hb agreed to go out with you. You call your buddy, "hey joe guess what i'm going out on a date with jenny on friday."

Now why can't you do the same with (boy + girl + friends) BECAUSE IT'S NOT A DATE!


BOY + GIRL + FRIENDS = HANGOUT!

You can't call your buddy and say "hey joe guess what i'm going on a date with jenny + her friend mark, kimberly, dave and oscar on friday" because that is not a date, that is hanging out with friends!

You need to get that through your head right now. A date is just between a man and a woman not a man + woman + friends.


MISTAKE: ALLOWING YOURSELF TO GET INTO A "HANGOUT" SITUATION BEFORE SHE'S EVEN YOUR GF/FB /ALREADY HAD SEX WITH HER

Why is this a mistake? Psychologically you are allowing yourself to be put into a category of a friend rather than romantic partner before you are actually her romantic partner!

HANGING OUT (more than you two involved) = SOMETHING THAT FRIENDS DO!

So when you agree to hang out with a target and friends (whether it's her inviting you to hang out with her friends or you inviting her to hang out with your friends) you are putting yourself in the friend zone without even knowing it!

You allowed yourself to get into a situation with a woman that is a friendship level rather than a romantic level. To us men that doesn't matter we will bang a woman no matter what but women are emotional and psychological creatures. Once she puts you into the category of friend it's hard to get out.

She might even see you as an attractive guy and thought about the possibility of you two going out in the future but you allowing yourself to be in in a hangout setting will put you in a friend level in her subconscious without her even knowing it!

It's basic stuff. You are supposed to do the opposite. Set the tone with a woman straight away that you will only allow yourself to be a lover not a friend, rather than becoming her friend first then trying to be her lover.

trying to get yourself out of the friend zone = ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE!


WOMEN WILL TRY TO TRAP YOU

Sometimes you will ask them out and they want to include a girlfriend/friends to come along. The reason being a lot of times is they don't see you as a possible lover. This is a tactic women use to either get a free meal, drink, put you in the friend zone, or just have a "fun hangout time with friends" (which you don't want to be. You want to be her lover)

1. Put you in the friend zone:

If she was being asked out by Brad Pitt do you think she would ask to bring her nosy friend martha along? of course not!

What was supposed to be your first date with her will be a hangout instead. Instead of you setting the tone that you only see you two as possible lovers by going out on a date you allow her to change the tone to you two being friends by changing a date to a hangout.

2. Will bring her nosy friend so she can give her expert opinion about you:

Women will invite their girlfriend to check you out so they can get their opinion. The game became that much harder as you really don't know how her friend will react to you. You might do well with the target but her friend might dislike 1 little thing about you and influence your target's mind. Women are very weak minded and prone to suggestion specially from their girlfriends.

Women don't go an hour without messaging/talking to their girlfriends about you after a date. They want to tell the story, they want to tell how it went and get their opinions. Lucky for you their opinions don't have as much power considering they weren't there. But if you did allow yourself to hangout with target + girlfriend then her opinion will have A LOT OF POWER.

3. She might not want a relationship/might be afraid of a relationship at this time:

This is a theory that I think holds true in some cases. The girl just might be afraid of getting herself in a relationship. She might be inexperienced. So to feel safe and to keep you away from seducing her she will bring a friend along to basically c___-block you.

You have to keep the mind of a hunter at all times and a hunter isolates his prey. Likely she will end up accepting to go out alone with you sooner or later if she is interested. No need to get desperate and fall for her trap.


REMEMBER THAT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO MAXIMIZE YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING AND NOT THE OPPOSITE!

Why do you think men and women try to look as good as possible when going out on a date? Why do you think you are supposed to take a shower before a date, cut your nails, put on some nice clothes, cologne etc?

TO MAXIMIZE YOUR CHANCES OF WINNING!

But are you maximizing your chances of winning when..

1. You willingly go into a situation with a target and other people involved which will make using kino, neg hits and just gaming the target almost impossible with nosy friends around?

2. You allow yourself to get into a situation with your target + her ****-blocking girlfriend to examine and downright analyze every little imperfection about you??

3. You allow yourself to get into a situation with other people who may make you look bad:

Whether it be her girlfriend/girlfriends or her male friends. If they sense weakness in you they might make a joke/comment and make you look bad even though they are just "joking around." You will be competing with her male friends for the title of the "alpha male" of the table. If you are barely comfortable with her because you are just getting to know her how did you allow yourself to get into hanging out with her friends which is even worse??

I'm not saying to never hang out with her + friends, just not until she is your gf/fb/already had sex with her.

Remember that one of the keys to seduction is ISOLATION!


WHAT CAN YOU DO?

1. Never agree to meet with a target if friends are going to be there as well:

Whether it be dinner, bowling or whatever. Set the tone from the start that if she wants to be with you she needs to be alone with you on a date between you two and nobody else.

2. There will be plenty of time to meet/hang out with her obnoxious nosy friends later. First concentrate on isolating her and moving on the next level WITH HER.

3. Are you too much of a wuss when she asks you to hang out with her friends to tell her you're busy? Can't make it? Got stuff to do? Don't fall for the trap!


CONCLUSION

Some might come and say "yeah well i hanged out with girl + friends before and I still managed to get with her 2 weeks later."

While guy's that have game already can certainly do that the average afc and guy starting out with women can't. This rule is only to help increase their chances for success. I think Dj's and guys with some game can obviously use this as well.

Remember. You are not out to join her social group you are out to be her lover. To be her lover you need to seduce her and seduction is done by isolation.

I endorse this fully. However, you may also want to consider only after multiple dates and lays with one girl you may want to consider hanging out with her friends. Case and point. If a girl you are seeing and have already ****ed a bunch of times asks you to go to a party with her and see some of her friends, it is in a way slowly introducing you to her social circle and see how the interaction goes. But generally, avoid the friends until the two of you are exclusive, if that is what you desire.

Upside said:

I endorse this fully. However, you may also want to consider only after multiple dates and lays with one girl you may want to consider hanging out with her friends. Case and point. If a girl you are seeing and have already ****ed a bunch of times asks you to go to a party with her and see some of her friends, it is in a way slowly introducing you to her social circle and see how the interaction goes. But generally, avoid the friends until the two of you are exclusive, if that is what you desire.

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actually this is what my post meant. I'll update it to include girlfriend/girl you banged as I forgot to include that.

I don't know if I agree 100%, if you "hangout" with her and her friends, and you can get her friends to wanna fcuk you, then it'll increase her interest level

Hakuna said:

I don't know if I agree 100%, if you "hangout" with her and her friends, and you can get her friends to wanna fcuk you, then it'll increase her interest level

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Read my conclusion.

If you can get her friends to want to f*** you after hanging out with them then you already got some game and don't need this as much as the average joe that struggles to even kiss a girl.

It's mean to help such guys and help increase their chances even if by just a little bit.

Once I had to hang out with a girl's friend who was another girl because she didn't tell me before the date but it worked out and I got more dates. However I definitely lost more potential women by not following this rule before. I once hung out with a girl's whole social circle of like 8 people and of course was fzoned. After I learned the rule from this forum though, I managed to get another girl. She wanted to invite a mutual friend for a dinner date but I Declined and said I was busy, gamed her some more and made it seem like she wanted to see me and I got another date. Basically she's pulling out her guns if she bringing her friends so early on into the mix, retreat and continue another time. This post is golden.

Put this golden nugget of wisdom in th DJ bible ^^^^

ArcBound said:

I once hung out with a girl's whole social circle of like 8 people and of course was fzoned. After I learned the rule from this forum though, I managed to get another girl. She wanted to invite a mutual friend for a dinner date but I Declined and said I was busy, gamed her some more and made it seem like she wanted to see me and I got another date. Basically she's pulling out her guns if she bringing her friends so early on into the mix, retreat and continue another time. This post is golden.

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That's exactly how you do it. A lot of guys though are afraid to sticking to their guns and feel like a woman will lose interest if they don't go along with what she wants right away. When in fact the opposite is true.

So when you ask a girl out and they want to bring a friend and you make up an excuse to not go it's not the end of the world. Stick to your principles.

While I appricate the effort, i have to say I wholeheartedly disagree with this rule.

A woman who gets wet thinking about you, isn't' suddenly going to not get wet thinking about you because she brings a friend.

Also this rule is too black and white.

If a woman is thinking of you as a friend, I sincearly doubt that 1. it's becuase a friend just so happened to be there with you guys and 2. you saying no, is going to change anything. In other words, you are trying to change her actions but she is still coming to the same conlcusion


what i mean is, say a woman is thinking of you in that friendly type of way what the **** is saying no i won't go on a friend date with you going to do to change her mind? you are already done and in essesne the entire date is a waste of time.

You could, play it cool and meet some new friends, or try to hook up with one of her friends.


I have not had a hell of a lot of experience with this, it just doesn't make actual sense when you sit down and think about it.

On the other hand, you could blow an actual relationship on a BS rule.

Some women just want their friends approval. Some want to "show you off"

let's use a real life situtation here. Say you met a girl somewhere, you guys go on a date, you have a very good time, you do everything right, you dont' **** but you get a real good kiss a "look here mother****er i want to see you again" kiss, she sends you a text the next day telling you she really enjoyed the time you had.

say she hasnt' had a BF in a few months, maybe even a year for whatever reason, one of her best friends is having a birthday party and she has been yapping to all her friends about how great you are, and her friends say look let's met this guy bring him to the party, we will have a great time.

she calls you up and has great news, my friends want to met you. She has even in the back of her mind, already concided she was going to give it up later that night to you, she is really into you.

Here your dumbass comes, "i can't do that because that's not a real date, i only go out with you not your friends"



3 real situations that happened to me. When i turned 21 years old i had a few women i was juggilng, 2 of them, amber and beth had siimilar situations above. Amberr was a big family person and she wasn't ****ing anyoen her older sister didn't approve of, that's all there is to it. I think we had been on one real date, we kissed, alot, it was obvious we were feeling each other, she calls me mid week one day and says hey stop by my sister and some friends are having drinks i want you to meet them. not only do I go, we ended up dating for over a year.

nevermind on beth i forgot we actually did **** before i met her friends.

that situation above, was what happened with my current fiancee, the "real story" situation verbatim, except i did go on the date and did get laid that night. she just wanted everyone to see she had a catch.


now to be fair, my old oneitis had friends that we would hang out together. whenever she wanted company she would call me and i would tag along like a wet dog. But here is the thing, me saying no to her wasn't going to change her opinion of me. I had way bigger issues (being a horrid AFC in general) then just going on dates with her friends and her. Me going on dates with her and her friends, is not why she wouldnt' give it up.


i say to you guys get out there and bump your head, get more experience and stop theorizing.

backbreaker said:

A woman who gets wet thinking about you, isn't' suddenly going to not get wet thinking about you because she brings a friend.

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That is true but it also holds true that many women will bring a friend for the reasons I stated (get a free drink/meal, friend-zone you or just have a fun hangout with friends).

Remember it's all about maximizing your chances of winning and isolation is one of the keys to maximizing those chances.

If a woman is thinking of you as a friend, I sincearly doubt that 1. it's becuase a friend just so happened to be there with you guys and 2. you saying no, is going to change anything. In other words, you are trying to change her actions but she is still coming to the same conlcusion

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Again you need to look at it from the point of view of maximizing your chances of winning.

If she agrees to go out with you just you two then you will have a chance to run your game on her whether you think she sees you as a friend or not. That's all that matters. If nothing ends up happening between you two that's fine but at least you got to isolate her.

It would be counter-productive to agree to go out with her and letting her bring a friend along when you need to isolate her to seduce her if you think she isn't even thinking about you as a lover. You allowing her to bring a friend along will do more to reinforce the image in her mind of you as a friend.

what i mean is, say a woman is thinking of you in that friendly type of way what the **** is saying no i won't go on a friend date with you going to do to change her mind? you are already done and in essesne the entire date is a waste of time.

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You have the wrong mentality brother. You need to go with the mentality of being able to seduce any woman given the chance rather than thinking "she doesn't like me" before you even get your chance to be alone with a girl.

I answered this in the post above but i'll say it again. You will have your chance to run your game on her which you won't if she brings a friend along. That's the only thing you can ask for at this time. If you play your cards right and push the right buttons you can totally change her mind as she sees how great you are when you are on a date with her.

Whether anything happens it still up to you.
You could, play it cool and meet some new friends, or try to hook up with one of her friends.

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What I been saying all along and it's much easier when you isolate your target. You need to be focused on the one target not her friends. That's why your interactions need to be just between you two. Keep your aura of mystery around her rather than spending time hanging out with her when you haven't even f***d her yet. Again ask yourself are you trying to be her lover or just another friend?

Some women just want their friends approval. Some want to "show you off"

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There's plenty of time for you to get their friends approval. First focus ON WHAT YOU WANT. Are you in the business of being a friend or a lover? Focus on seducing her than once you've done that you can meet her obnoxious friends later.

let's use a real life situtation here. Say you met a girl somewhere, you guys go on a date, you have a very good time, you do everything right, you dont' **** but you get a real good kiss a "look here mother****er i want to see you again" kiss, she sends you a text the next day telling you she really enjoyed the time you had.

say she hasnt' had a BF in a few months, maybe even a year for whatever reason, one of her best friends is having a birthday party and she has been yapping to all her friends about how great you are, and her friends say look let's met this guy bring him to the party, we will have a great time.

she calls you up and has great news, my friends want to met you. She has even in the back of her mind, already concided she was going to give it up later that night to you, she is really into you.

Here your dumbass comes, "i can't do that because that's not a real date, i only go out with you not your friends"

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Kissing and making out would probably be the only permissible situation when you could break the rule. You two could already be on your way to a relationship.

It's always better to establish your status with a woman before you allow yourself to join her social circle/have her join yours.

This rule is much like the 2 strikes rule. It's meant to simplify the lives of guys and stop all the damn confusion. If you apply this rule no question you will have less drama and less confusion in your dating life.

This rule is written from the point of view of those that will only spend time with a woman just to f*** her, and don't care about hanging out, going to parties or social events or meeting her obnoxious friends. That can be done later UNTIL i get what I want first.

lol, it's a sucky rule brah

it's not practical in the real world.

you are like the guy who goes to the horse track and bets nothing but rail horses or nothing but overlays, i.et trying to find a system to prevent you from doing any real work.

each woman is a case by case basis. but you would be an idiot to just dismiss a woman because she wants you to meet her friends

inf act the more i think about it that's the stupidest **** i have heard in a while

I have a personal rule regarding this situation.

If I'm just after a Pump & Dump, I will not meet her friends.

If I'm after a potential relationship, it's a great opportunity for me to assess how suitable she is. She may be able to put on the big act when it's just her, but you can read a lot about a woman from her choice of friends.

However, even in the latter case, I will not meet her friends unless I can read that she's really into me to the point that what her friends say wouldn't matter anymore.

A few years back, I lost a girl who appeared to be very much into me after meeting her friends because they didn't like me. We already slept together quite a few times by then and had been seeing each other for 2 months. I didn't plan to meet her friends on that occasion. I went over to meet her for lunch and four of her friends just "showed up" to drag us to a BBQ. I was totally unprepared while they knew a lot about me from what she told them.

I just had this situation occur not too long ago.. Maybe a 2-3 weeks I can't remember.

I think it's a good idea to follow on the first date. Then the 2nd or 3rd will be on a case by case basis.

You see backbreaker already said he went on a date and kissed, a lot. Only
after you two had a great date, can she now rationalize showing you off to her friends. That is completely understandable.

But what if Amber pulled that line on the first date?

Also there's a big difference between, "come meet my friends," to where she's initiating, as opposed to you setting up the date... Only to have her bring a friend along.

To reiterate, this situation happened after a good first date. It changes the whole context of things.

The way I see it, I completely agree F283000. If you had a really hot date would you bring your friend *girl or guy* along? I don't think so.

So why should it be any different in her case?

After my last first date where she brought a friend along, I'll never put myself in that position again.

For future reference. how do you respond? I'm going to use the dialogue from my previous date.

Me: I'm taking you out to a soju bar tomorrow, what time am I picking you up?
Her: Great! after 3pm, my friend is coming too, ok? (^_^) ()
Me: ????

What would be your response?

GhostWriter said:

Me: I'm taking you out to a soju bar tomorrow, what time am I picking you up?
Her: Great! after 3pm, my friend is coming too, ok? (^_^) ()
Me: ????

What would be your response?

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You reply," Cool. Heh, let's make it a foursome. You won't mind if I bring my ex g/f. We are the best of friends now ."

i'm quite sure i said it should be handled on a case by case basis.

amber and i's first real date i broke my rule and took her on a dinner date. she had gotten off work at 10 and there was nothing else to do. but, i knew i could get away with it becuase she was extremely into me and i knew it. after that we had went back to my place and watched some curb your enthiesum, i had just bought season 1, then we ended up in my bed naked and i damn near ****ed but for some reason, chose not to

lol, so yeah, at that point, really dont' give a **** about meeting her sister


and honestly, in ambers case, she was so into me, i would have met her friends/sister on the first date. she was practically stalking me. I had that girl wrapped around my finger. but see, amber and i had played date tango fora bout a month. i met her, got her number at her job, she canclled 2 times on me, she had just gotten otu of a 6 year relationship, i was somewhat sympathetic, not mad, but spmyathatic, and i called her told her look i'm not mad i know what you are going through, but this is what the deal is, i'm going to take you out on X day, i htink it was that coming wednesday, if you cancel, you won't hear from me again. no hard feelings but i wont' do this again. at that point, she said i got one better, just pick me up after work on saturday and we can do whatever you want. i ran into her at her job before she got off work buyign clothes and she took a lunch break to go shopping with me and the whole time she was asking me how many other women i'm seeing, blah blah blah,

so at that point, if amber wanted met o meet her sister, i would not have cared.

it's a case by case basis.


now millie (my fiancee), had she wanted me to meet her friends on the first date, i probably would not have. i knew she was interested but she wasn't amber interested at first. i grew on her lol. it took me going on the first date with her to really blow her away. in that case, no i would not have. me meeting her friends, was the result of our first date. she wanted their approval.


but my whole point is, millie wasn't head over heels yet, but she liked me enough to want to spend time with me. Say millie called me and pulled that ****. you canceling isn't going to make her lke you more, you blew it somewhere else is what i am trying to say.

f283000 CHECK YOUR MAIL- just pmed you!

backbreaker said:

each woman is a case by case basis. but you would be an idiot to just dismiss a woman because she wants you to meet her friends

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I'm not dismissing her I'm just putting my foot down and making sure that if a woman I'm romantically interested in wants to meet with me it needs to be on a one on one basis until my status with her is sorted out. Plain and simple.

Me: I'm taking you out to a soju bar tomorrow, what time am I picking you up?
Her: Great! after 3pm, my friend is coming too, ok? (^_^) ()
Me: ????

What would be your response?

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I think I remember your thread Ghostwriter. Your case influenced me to write this (plus many others I have seen and my own experiences).

What do you do in this situation? Put your foot down like a real man would!

Are you too much of a wuss to let her know that you want to take her out exclusively? To neg her about it for being childish? What is she gonna do kick your ass? What are you afraid of? Women love a man that asserts his authority and sets the rules. You shouldn't be ashamed instead you should do it openly!

Look at it this way. Your time is valuable. You want to seduce this woman not hang out with her + friend. Do you want to waste your time hanging out with her + her friend when in that time you could do more productive things?

For guys with no options they'll do anything a woman says. To them this is a rare opportunity to hang out with 2 women. Little do they know that this is exactly that hanging out and nothing will happen for them. For guys that know a little more about the game and spin plates this is a waste of time. If this b|tch is putting obstacles they'll just call the next one on the list.

Aazman said:

f283000 CHECK YOUR MAIL- just pmed you!

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I'll check it out thanks brother

help! ?

Hello everyone,
I got this girl i found on facebook that i haven't seen in like 10 years. she use to look like a geek and pretty shy... shes hot now and likes to talk a good bit.. Prob is I haven't dated anyone in like 2 years and not very socially active due to work and my business. at least around women anyway. just getting over depression, so thinking i should go for the friend thing with women first, due to lack of confidence and self esteem around women that i don't know right now.. I been talking to her a little, joking around with her and picking on her lately and she just sent this to me today:

yeh i wanted u go to to this bingo room n chat with me n bunch of friends

From wat this says i shouldn't do it, but im not really specifically looking for anything in particular right now, especially not a girlfriend cause im so busy... wats wrong with going and just saying "watver happens happens" ?

401taz said:

yeh i wanted u go to to this bingo room n chat with me n bunch of friends

From wat this says i shouldn't do it, but im not really specifically looking for anything in particular right now, especially not a girlfriend cause im so busy... wats wrong with going and just saying "watver happens happens" ?

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WHAT DO YOU WANT? BE HONEST!

I ask this because you sound un-decided. You say that you been talking to this hot girl, then you say you had depression and haven't been with a woman for a long time, then you say you are not looking for anything in particular.

Because of what's been going on in your life you have been on a cold streak for a long time.

I think you need to be honest with yourself and live a little. The simple fact that you posted in this forum about this hot girl tells me that deep down inside you want a woman again.

Don't let her set the rules. Ask her out and see what happens. Do you really want to go play bingo with her annoying friends or would you much rather go do something fun with her?

Well right now i do have some depression, but its getting better, but i have definitely not been talking with girls, even on a friendly basis for over 2 years now, so get really nervous around them for wandering wat they think of me, if im doing the right things, etc. Right now i only have about 3 hours or so a week to put into girls period with my job, biz and all, so just a friend would be fine and if it turns into something then so be it! if not i could care less. Well i did ask her out heres the last couple messages i sent her:

I told her that i was kinda hoping she would have changed her mind on going up to nc. with me cause i think it would have been fun to get some dinner for the ride up... then i told her, thats cool, no biggie, but maybe we can get together, get something to eat and hang out soon...then she said reason she didn't go is her mom wasn't home when i left and she didn't wanna leave w/o letting her mom go and also her dad who lives in nc. "especially since im a guy". then i said:Excuses, excuses...I see how u gonna be! Just throw me out to the dogs

she lives with parents, prob is i do too!! then she said the bingo thing i posted... wat do u think? i mean a friends with benefits would be cool i guess, i have never had one of those b4... i just dont wanna get into lying, saying i love u, etc just to get the *****... lol