Women who flake

jophil28 · Feb 24, 2008

Colossus said:
Yes.
Some women, no matter how well intentioned, are just terminal flakes. They cannot grasp the concepts of sacrifice and integrity, probably because they have been catered to and escaped accountability their whole lives.

Mmm - .."catered to (and pampered) and have escaped accountability their whole lives ".

THis is the golden truth .

The outworking of this type of upbringing is the PRINCESS mentalityand it subsequent behavior . These "women" believe that they can do whatever they wish to people without any painful consequences.
Fortunately for me, this type of woman is not too common in my age bracket BUT I feel for you young guys in having to deal with the '20 somethings' from Generation ID ( "I Deserve")

jophil28 · Feb 24, 2008

synergy1 said:
When I sense a flake on the horizon, I halt pursuit and cut my losses. My questioned to veterans is this; how persistent or aloof should one be with women who appear somewhat flaky. In my most recent case, I was laying this women and she goes cold within a few weeks. At this point, I have moved on but always feel the need to take something out of it so I can learn for next time.

Women who flake (without a credible apology PLUS a counter offer)
are of the mindset that holds this belief- "I am a woman and that entitles me to act in any way I please. I have that golden pvssy that all men want and that gives me the power, and a license, to do whatever I want whenever I want without being held accountable. "

The best method to counter this crap is to act as if her behavior is IRELLEVANT to you . Do not call her on it, or get angry. Do not email, text or call her for an explanation. Act as if she does not exist and move on QUICKLY. Ask someone else out on a date. It you run into the flake, smile briefly and greet her as if she is a mere acquaintance and move away .
THis mindset will get your resentment under control.'
Remembver this - if you ever confront a flakey woman on her bad behavior, she will immediately shift blame in her mind onto you for making her feel "bad" by calling her on it.
The females internal mantra is always ," I am not to blame - he is "

Mr. Me · Feb 24, 2008

>> Are you saying that if you can't get it done a certain number of days in advance you shouldn't try at all? >>

No, I was saying don't make it for so soon and certainly don't make it for the weekend. If you spoke to her on Thursday, make the date for something like the following Wednesday.

That also decreases the possibility of her not being available, as she might be if you asked for a date that takes place two days later. PLUS, let's say when you asked for the Saturday date, if she had said, "I'm busy", you wouldn't know if she really was or is putting you off. If you ask for a date about a week away and she says "I'm busy", then she *may* be putting you off, as most people aren't booked solid a week ahead of time. You'd file that tidbit in the back of your brain and see what else happens.

Well, I have to go back to watching the Oscars now and see if any of my exes win for Best Actress.

drmeathead · Feb 24, 2008

i had a girl cancel on me for last night an hour and a half beforehand. it was an excuse that was legit on its face. well it was something i didnt dare challenge anyway. her recently widowed aunt needed comforting. i told her to go take of her family. she was appricaitive of me being cool. however when she asked about tonight i said perhaps. i will see what today brings. i certainly didnt call her. she didnt call me. whatever.

i ****ed her on the first date. i truely believe this was some sort of power play on her part to try to get some control back. whatever. she can play her games. i ll go play elsewhere. thank God for multiple plates. looking back to my AFC days i d have been distraught over this. right now i think it is funny as i know what she is TRYING to pull here.

Latinoman · Feb 24, 2008

guru1000 said:
Hey Phyzzle,

Great Links. These articles make a great deal of sense. However, they are written with one outcome in mind, GETTING LAID. Of course, everyone has different goals.

I can agree with you on the point of CONFIDENT PERSISTANCE if my goal was to put more notches in my bed post. Why give up easily, if our mission is to sleep with MANY.

This is not my goal. My goal is to find the one most compatible with me.

Low IL women that need to be INJECTED with INTEREST by TACTICS will not reciprocate HIGH IL in the GENUINE you long-term.

My RAW experience has taught me if a woman shows HIGH IL in the REAL you, this relationship will endure the test of time.

All the great marriages of others and personal relationships of mine in the past have had HUGE sparks flying from the initial encounter. These Relationships PERSERVERE because high IL had IGNITED from the first encounter. I did not have to SELL myself and create an ARTIFICIAL frame to work from.

These are the kind of relationships that END only on your TERMS. (Your low IL)

The question might arise "How could you reasonably expect to bring an IL so high at an initial encounter that they will be eagerly anticipating your phone call."

Play the numbers game and you shall see. I rather sieve through a 1000 to find 10 HIGH IL's , then sieve through 100 to find 10 LOW IL's.

I am not a PUA. I am a filterer. I filter through the garbage to find the worthwhile. Who I choose to spend my time with has to be given careful consideration.

One of the fundamental roots of this consideration is HIGH IL.

This is gold.

drmeathead · Feb 24, 2008

Latinoman said:
This is gold.

i agree...it is amazing the manners women have for a man that they deem worthy enough. they have no problem flakin on a chump. then these classy women wont sleep with you on the first date or some other nonsense.

didnt ann landers once say a good measure of class is the respect you give to people who are of absolutely no value to you.

Mr. Me · Feb 24, 2008

i had a girl cancel on me for last night... however when she asked about tonight i said perhaps. i will see what today brings. i certainly didnt call her. she didnt call me. whatever.

She asked about tonight? That was her counter-offer. Hmmmm. Try her again.

BipedGod · Feb 24, 2008

Guys, you're whining like the flakes who are pimping you!! get use to it the reason is you have not given the flake enough of a reason to keep her word.

This happened to me today, I sell real estate, I'm showing this very hot 23 year old (the most stunning emerald green eyes ever) a house and she comments on a beat up mid 70's chevy blazer parked in the street has got to go if she buys the house, I said they'll be your neighbors...you tell them. and I said besides, maybe the guy is really cute and you and he can get together (she's single)...she looks at me, rolls her eyes with a little smile that says "oh please" driving that!! guys, that is what they're all about, $$$$$, image, the prettier they are the more like princesses they expected to be treated, they have to think you are hotter than them, the younger they are the more $$$$ is important. I don't care who says what If you don't carry yourself like you own the planet or soon will you better look like a movie star, because it's all about them (they think)...just know that going in. So the answer is and it won't change anytime soon...get you life and game together, then you can really take your pick, become your own fu**ing hero.

drmeathead · Feb 24, 2008

Mr. Me said:
She asked about tonight? That was her counter-offer. Hmmmm. Try her again.

yeah it was but i wasnt going to commit to a girl who just broke plans. nor was i going to call her today and hear her go i was up late taking care of my aunt i am too tired. to me the ball is in her court and she should be calling me up and asking me out. hey if she doesnt want to kiss my ass...someone else will.

Juando · Feb 25, 2008

jophil28 said:
Women who flake (without a credible apology PLUS a counter offer)
are of the mindset that holds this belief- "I am a woman and that entitles me to act in any way I please. I have that golden pvssy that all men want and that gives me the power, and a license, to do whatever I want whenever I want without being held accountable. "

The best method to counter this crap is to act as if her behavior is IRELLEVANT to you . Do not call her on it, or get angry. Do not email, text or call her for an explanation. Act as if she does not exist and move on QUICKLY. Ask someone else out on a date. It you run into the flake, smile briefly and greet her as if she is a mere acquaintance and move away .
THis mindset will get your resentment under control.'
Remembver this - if you ever confront a flakey woman on her bad behavior, she will immediately shift blame in her mind onto you for making her feel "bad" by calling her on it.
The females internal mantra is always ," I am not to blame - he is "

I had plans with plate today and she called to flake.

I said, ok talk to you later.

She picked up my emotion and insisted on talking. I tried to stay cool and not make my reaction apparent but she's too perceptive for that.

Then she insisted on coming over, so my reaction "worked".

Am I a total AFC? I have the nonchalant guy reaction in my head but that's not what came out, I'm not there yet.

Truth is, she never flaked before, so I am not about to treat her like she incorrigible.

When she arrived she was angry and at first seemed to be positioning herself to shift some of the blame to me but then ended up apologizing. After that she opened up and told me some things she's feeling about me, some touching, some causing my stomach to tighten.

Long story short we ended up going for a walk with her holding my arm and then having a nice dinner. Now she's working in the other room and peace reigns.

I let her extract some of the significant parts of my take on her flake. I did not lecture or go into chapter and verse. I think she got it to the extent that if she thinks twice about not flaking it will probably be more from the position of fearing my reaction than from totally changing her stripes.

Do you think my position here is weak?

STR8UP · Feb 25, 2008

Juando said:
Do you think my position here is weak?

I still say until you have established enough attraction/rapport/whatever with a woman, best thing to do is make everything spur of the moment. Force her hand. If she commits to something two hours in the future, she's a lot less likely to flake than if she comits to something a few days or a week ahead of time.

It's all about stirring the emotion and taking advantage of it by striking while the iron is hot.

I think it's total BS that you have to go to that extreme, but people are inconsiderate asswipes nowadays, so you gotta do what you gotta do.

If nobody else gives a sh!t, why should you?

I'm tired of getting d!cked around. Time to play the game like the rest of the world does.

JackPrescott · Feb 25, 2008

jophil28 said:
Women who flake (without a credible apology PLUS a counter offer)
are of the mindset that holds this belief- "I am a woman and that entitles me to act in any way I please. I have that golden pvssy that all men want and that gives me the power, and a license, to do whatever I want whenever I want without being held accountable. "

The best method to counter this crap is to act as if her behavior is IRELLEVANT to you . Do not call her on it, or get angry. Do not email, text or call her for an explanation. Act as if she does not exist and move on QUICKLY. Ask someone else out on a date. It you run into the flake, smile briefly and greet her as if she is a mere acquaintance and move away .
THis mindset will get your resentment under control.'
Remembver this - if you ever confront a flakey woman on her bad behavior, she will immediately shift blame in her mind onto you for making her feel "bad" by calling her on it.
The females internal mantra is always ," I am not to blame - he is "

Wow. What you just said about the mindset of a flake was DEAD ASS on. And the reason for this, again, is a combination of their looks, facially, their body, and the ratio of men to women. An average looking woman cannot afford to flake or her ass will be alone. A sexy woman, in a ratio of males to females that is typical of the United States (8 to 1) can basically be the biggest egotistical bittch that walks the planet. Her mindset is that all males would die for one night with her, so she can pick and choose as she pleases.

Mr. Me · Feb 25, 2008

yeah it was but I wasnt going to commit to a girl who just broke plans. nor was I going to call her today and hear her go I was up late taking care of my aunt I am too tired. to me the ball is in her court and she should be calling me up and asking me out. hey if she doesnt want to kiss my ass...someone else will.

I hear you, but I think you've possibly got an incorrect assessment on this. When a woman cancels/flakes, yes, I'd agree that she's out. But when she gives you that counter-offer, that's THE sign that's she's possibly genuine, but since we're not sure, you put her on "Pending Approval" to see what else happens. But to leave the ball in her court at this point for her to call you, I think that's loss of control and I think it's a misstep in this case. YOU contact her. AND if she flakes again, then for sure she's out. That's my advice, FWIW.

Victory Unlimited · Feb 25, 2008

Yo Troops,

Lots of DAMN good advice on this thread. An old subject, but unfortunately, ALWAYS a relevant one. I only have one thing I'd like to contribute to this thread, in the spirit of adding yet more nuance.

But first, brace yourself for this SMART BOMB cleverly disguised as a run-on sentence:

Women with HIGH interest level in you could even be in a HOSPITAL recovering from PNEUMONIA and still be so eager to see you that she would get special permission from her doctor AND her insurance company in order to have her bed-ridden Ass transported by ambulance over to YOUR house-----JUST so SHE could have "visiting hours" with YOU!

Most of us already know about how to deal with DEFINITE flaking, but the problem that a lot of guys have is with TENTATIVE flaking. Definite flaking is what women with low interest level do all the time, while Tentative flaking is what women with moderate interest level are more notorious for. It is this kind of wishy-washy, sometimey-assed, behavior that sucks the more naive of us into a vortex of ONEitis. The reason for this is because this type of female can be so easily mistaken for an identical twin sister of an Attention Whhore.

Men who are either blinded by their own EGO, or have simply lost sight of their OWN best interest are tempted to interpret this scenario as THE WOMAN not knowing what she wants, while in reality, most of the time, it is in fact THE MAN himself that is confused.

You know what I mean. I'm talking about the women who sometimes make dates, and sometimes don't. Women who sometimes show you that they are hot for you, and sometimes don't-----and so on, and so on. Now for the record, I personally consider ALL types of flakey women unreliable enough to resign myself to treat them from that day forward, with emotional disregard.

I usually just backburner ALL these kinds of women, pull a disappearing act worthy of Houdini, then let THEM eventually come to me----if they ever do. And if I am in between "worthy" options at that time, then I will CONSIDER seeing what, if anything, I can enjoy by allowing them back into my life (and this usually just turns out to be a TEMPORARY type of "relationship", I have found...).

But more specifically for the women who I have managed to characterize as the Tentative Flakes, I've been using a strategy that has worked for me on a few occasions----it's a military manuever I like to call THE STAGGERED RETREAT.

And I use this whenever I am bored, and want to experiment with a woman who has already shown me that I should not take her interest in me seriously----whenever a woman who HAS BEEN consistent, starts sending me consistently "mixed" messages.

A staggered retreat is a withdrawal from a relationship that MIRRORS the randomness and sporadicness of the mixed messages that the woman is sending YOU.

You see, soldier, SOMETIMES it's NOT best to just disappear ALL AT ONCE-----if you want to leave a door open for something (see---A FLING) to happen in the future. In these cases, sometimes a tentative withdrawal at unpredictable speeds works best in situations where the woman is trying to "make up her mind" about you.

A staggered retreat really DOES act as a mirror, in that it allows HER the time and opportunity to see how SHE'S acting MIGHT be causing YOU to reject HER. And any woman who is "on the fence" about a man in her life that she now recognizes that she is about to LOSE will be faced with the question: "Do I value this man enough to consistently ACT like, or don't I?"

Now, if after a certain amount of time has passed (determined by YOU, of course----because YOU are responsible for giving YOURSELF closure in all relationships---NOT "the woman"), THEN you can go ahead and abrubtly pull up ALL stakes with your dignity and self-respect fully intact. That's when you do your complete "about face", and go into a FULL RETREAT----and never look back.

But again, this is a strategy to try for men who ARE NOT too emotionally invested in the outcome, but not for those men who KNOW they may be on the brink of ONEitis. So the last point I want to get across is:

Women who are into you DON'T have trouble finding time to get with YOU-----to the contrary, they only have trouble finding time for EVERYTHING ELSE.

Peace...one day.

jmeredi · Feb 25, 2008

There's gold in them thar posts!!!

Jitterbug · Feb 25, 2008

Victory Unlimited said:
Women who are into you DON'T have trouble finding time to get with YOU-----to the contrary, they only have trouble finding time for EVERYTHING ELSE.

That is Gold.

Reyaj · Feb 25, 2008

Victory Unlimited said:
Yo Troops,

Lots of DAMN good advice on this thread. An old subject, but unfortunately, ALWAYS a relevant one. I only have one thing I'd like to contribute to this thread, in the spirit of adding yet more nuance.

But first, brace yourself for this SMART BOMB cleverly disguised as a run-on sentence:

Women with HIGH interest level in you could even be in a HOSPITAL recovering from PNEUMONIA and still be so eager to see you that she would get special permission from her doctor AND her insurance company in order to have her bed-ridden Ass transported by ambulance over to YOUR house-----JUST so SHE could have "visiting hours" with YOU!

Most of us already know about how to deal with DEFINITE flaking, but the problem that a lot of guys have is with TENTATIVE flaking. Definite flaking is what women with low interest level do all the time, while Tentative flaking is what women with moderate interest level are more notorious for. It is this kind of wishy-washy, sometimey-assed, behavior that sucks the more naive of us into a vortex of ONEitis. The reason for this is because this type of female can be so easily mistaken for an identical twin sister of an Attention Whhore.

Men who are either blinded by their own EGO, or have simply lost sight of their OWN best interest are tempted to interpret this scenario as THE WOMAN not knowing what she wants, while in reality, most of the time, it is in fact THE MAN himself that is confused.

You know what I mean. I'm talking about the women who sometimes make dates, and sometimes don't. Women who sometimes show you that they are hot for you, and sometimes don't-----and so on, and so on. Now for the record, I personally consider ALL types of flakey women unreliable enough to resign myself to treat them from that day forward, with emotional disregard.

I usually just backburner ALL these kinds of women, pull a disappearing act worthy of Houdini, then let THEM eventually come to me----if they ever do. And if I am in between "worthy" options at that time, then I will CONSIDER seeing what, if anything, I can enjoy by allowing them back into my life (and this usually just turns out to be a TEMPORARY type of "relationship", I have found...).

But more specifically for the women who I have managed to characterize as the Tentative Flakes, I've been using a strategy that has worked for me on a few occasions----it's a military manuever I like to call THE STAGGERED RETREAT.

And I use this whenever I am bored, and want to experiment with a woman who has already shown me that I should not take her interest in me seriously----whenever a woman who HAS BEEN consistent, starts sending me consistently "mixed" messages.

A staggered retreat is a withdrawal from a relationship that MIRRORS the randomness and sporadicness of the mixed messages that the woman is sending YOU.

You see, soldier, SOMETIMES it's NOT best to just disappear ALL AT ONCE-----if you want to leave a door open for something (see---A FLING) to happen in the future. In these cases, sometimes a tentative withdrawal at unpredictable speeds works best in situations where the woman is trying to "make up her mind" about you.

A staggered retreat really DOES act as a mirror, in that it allows HER the time and opportunity to see how SHE'S acting MIGHT be causing YOU to reject HER. And any woman who is "on the fence" about a man in her life that she now recognizes that she is about to LOSE will be faced with the question: "Do I value this man enough to consistently ACT like, or don't I?"

Now, if after a certain amount of time has passed (determined by YOU, of course----because YOU are responsible for giving YOURSELF closure in all relationships---NOT "the woman"), THEN you can go ahead and abrubtly pull up ALL stakes with your dignity and self-respect fully intact. That's when you do your complete "about face", and go into a FULL RETREAT----and never look back.

But again, this is a strategy to try for men who ARE NOT too emotionally invested in the outcome, but not for those men who KNOW they may be on the brink of ONEitis. So the last point I want to get across is:

Women who are into you DON'T have trouble finding time to get with YOU-----to the contrary, they only have trouble finding time for EVERYTHING ELSE.

Peace...one day.

I am so glad I came across this thread. If everyone reads my approach journal you will see that I am dealing with a lot of flaking.

I've known for a while that the DJ philosophy to handle a flakey plate is to not let her know she got to you, find more plates and spin them. I've had some difficulty with this in that I feel disrespected at times which cause my anger to come out. Regardless while I have to agree this is the best advice for confidence..... how does it really help you lay the flake?

Victory I'm glad you posted what you did though its pretty ambiguous with the steps necessary to accomplish this. It sounds like this Swedish plate I am spinning falls under your "Tenative Flaker" category. If you don't mind, please read my journal (its long but the last few pages should discuss the swedish girl) and see what specific actions you can advise me.....

But aside from that.... nexting flakey plates is good for confidence but more times than not you don't end up screwing the plate which is what seducaton is all about.

This just leads me to the question I've been asking myself a lot since joining this forum;

Should you just next every girl that flakes..... or is there really a science of seduction that can be applied where you can truly get that girl in bed and then have her eating out the palms of your hand??????????

For real life examples of flakes read my journal. There's more flakes than an Alaska snow storm in it

LoneSilver · Feb 25, 2008

The last girl who flaked on me I suggested she use a bottle of Head&Shoulders shampoo....OK I thought it funny....wheres the sense of humor around here?

LoneSilver

Victory Unlimited · Feb 25, 2008

LoneSilver said:
The last girl who flaked on me I suggested she use a bottle of Head&Shoulders shampoo....OK I thought it funny....wheres the sense of humor around here?

LoneSilver

:crackup: :rockon:

Victory Unlimited · Feb 25, 2008

Yo Jayer,

Contrary to what many people say, especially those people who are trying to sell their overpriced "seduction" materials-----there are SOME women that a man will never seduce. And the reasons are various, such as she may only be into you when she's bored, she may be just an Attention Whhore who has NO serious intent on sleeping with you, she may have just temporarily broken up with her boyfriend but is BACK with him now, or she may just be an Actress whose flirting with you for some ulterior motive. Or, you may just not be "her" type. The list can be exhaustive, but you get the point.

As a man, you have to KNOW when to cut your losses, stop wasting your time and energy, and move the fukk ON.

This is what I meant by NOT being emotionally invested in getting women (especially THESE kinds).

If you find yourself thinking for 5 minutes about a woman who has NOT shown you any consistently good behavior over time, then you have spent 4 minutes TOO LONG.

Read the ABOVE statement again.

How do you execute The Staggered Retreat? You do it by mirroring what SHE'S been doing to you-----except you multiply it times two. If she's begun calling you only twice a week, then you call her only ONCE. If she breaks a pre-planned date with you on Friday, then you break TWO with her on the next week. The key to all of this is subtlety and your ability to maintain plausible deniability for YOUR actions. You can never admit you are in the process of OUTmanuveuring her.

Mirroring her behavior using covert tactics is the key. But there are NO GUARRANTEES that this will work, this will only work to spark a renewed interest from her. And many times, these tactics only work temporarily, because the only reason she's coming back to you is to protect her OWN ego. And once she gets that ego of hers "re-inflated", her ass is off to doing what she REALLY wants to do-------"other" guys.

Remove your heart and your "feelings" out of this type of battle, soldier. Doc Love has said "Rejection DOUBLES interest level". And as Victory Unlimited has added "...but ONLY temporarily."

Don't even ATTEMPT a Staggered Retreat if you feel like you care AT ALL about this woman (at THIS point), because the stakes are too high. Only consider opening your heart to a woman AFTER you feel that you have seen enough evidence that she is doing the same. Otherwise, the unseasoned soldiers in this war are ASKING for a case of severe ONEitis.

March on.

Women who flake

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Banned

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Master Don Juan