Women on the front lines in Combat

[joshooo]

Women on the front lines in Combat
"The Pentagon said Thursday it will open more battlefield jobs to women, placing them closer to war’s front lines, but two women who have served in the Air Force said female troops have demonstrated that no restrictions are necessary."

"The Pentagon is unveiling plans Thursday to allow women to serve in thousands of military jobs closer to the front lines, reflecting the realities of the last decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan"


I don't have any military experience but I get the feeling this is not a good idea and more so a hindrance and added burden to male troops. Simply because a female simply does not have the testosterone to keep up physically. What do you guys think? Is this stupid more or less?

 

[The Duke]

Horrible idea. As far as attributes suited for the front lines, females are physically and emotionally inferior.

 

[Bible_Belt]

The spam links in your signature detract from your credibility.

 

[5string]

Please tell them to stop shooting until I change my tampon, stop crying and take my paxil. Oh, have you seen my cell phone sergeant 5string?

 

[timmylivingalie]

Women on the front lines in Combat
"The Pentagon said Thursday it will open more battlefield jobs to women, placing them closer to war’s front lines, but two women who have served in the Air Force said female troops have demonstrated that no restrictions are necessary."

"The Pentagon is unveiling plans Thursday to allow women to serve in thousands of military jobs closer to the front lines, reflecting the realities of the last decade of war in Iraq and Afghanistan"


I don't have any military experience but I get the feeling this is not a good idea and more so a hindrance and added burden to male troops. Simply because a female simply does not have the testosterone to keep up physically. What do you guys think? Is this stupid more or less?

Oh no America is in trouble for sure. China is really laughing now.

 

[living-proof]

This is one thing the Canadians got right. I saw a documentary on Canadian infantry traing school in the 90s. It washes out about 30%. They allow women to enter. At the time, they had had about 100 enter and 2 succesfully completed the course. Those two could honestly say that they are just as good as any man. I wouldn't have a problem with either of them covering my back, but, no, I would not date them.

 

[DJDamage]

Just watch when a female senior commander falls as a prisoner of war. What do you think the savage enemy is going to do when it got a female as a prisoner?! All secrets will be out in no time.

 

[Noodles]

I don't have any military experience but I get the feeling this is not a good idea and more so a hindrance and added burden to male troops. Simply because a female simply does not have the testosterone to keep up physically. What do you guys think? Is this stupid more or less?

I do have front line military experience. I've worked with women and I've worked with men. Some are good and some are bad. The gender doesn't make a difference.

A lot of the classic reasons for not having women in more front line roles are:
1. Periods etc. The coil eliminates periods in most women, and if not the pill doesn't a good job. Carrying this is hardly an issue when you have to carry water tablets etc.
2. Strength and thus testosterone. Despite the films, the military rarely (if ever) has need for actually raw physical strength. Mental and muscular endurance are much more important. This pretty much always comes down to will power, and certainly the woman that I've seen get to front line combat have got this in spades.
3. They will distract the men. This is such a annoying phrase. Male soldiers are not children. They are not convicts. They are doing a hard job and are professionals. You can't let your mate having his legs blown off by a land mine distract you if you want to live. A women certainly isn't going to affect you. Also...they don't exactly look hot. No makeup. Squaddie non fitting clothing. Dirty with horrible hair. You're really not interested.
4. Torture. Arguably women with training hold up (no one without training holds up) as well as men with training - there bodies are designed to survive childbirth. Will they get raped? Possibly. And you think men don't? That would be the least of your worries anyway. Soldiers are expected to break under torture - it's planned for. Hence need-to-know and information compartmentalisation. It's great if you don't...but no one counts on it.

If I was still in Royal Marines my only concern would be that my team are the best available and that I trust them. There sex doesn't concern me. Nor does their politics, sexuality, race or what they do during leave.

 

[Bible_Belt]

1. Periods etc. The coil eliminates periods in most women, and if not the pill doesn't a good job. Carrying this is hardly an issue when you have to carry water tablets etc.

I don't know what a "coil" is, but most women do have periods. Birth control often makes it worse and not better. The depo shot, for example, will frequently make a woman bleed constantly for six months. A woman on her period who is in a trench fighting and does not have the facilities to bathe for a month at a time is a health hazard to herself and others.

2. Strength and thus testosterone. Despite the films, the military rarely (if ever) has need for actually raw physical strength. Mental and muscular endurance are much more important. This pretty much always comes down to will power, and certainly the woman that I've seen get to front line combat have got this in spades.

Right. Women are as strong as men if they just try harder. If that is the case, why do they always have lower fitness test standards?

 

[Noodles]

I don't know what a "coil" is, but most women do have periods.

This is the coil - it's certainly popular with women in the British Military:
http://www.fpa.org.uk/helpandadvice/contraception/ius

From the above:
'Periods may become lighter than usual or may continue to be irregular and many women find that their periods stop altogether.'

The depo shot, for example, will frequently make a woman bleed constantly for six months.

They wouldn't use it then, would they? Just like they won't use recreational drugs, or drink or duty.

A woman on her period who is in a trench fighting and does not have the facilities to bathe for a month at a time is a health hazard to herself and others.

Ah yes...this argument. 'Trench' fighting went out with WW2. Insurgency based fighting means regular patrols or operations lasting hours or most days before returning to base.
If you're talking deep insertion then we're talking SF, and they don't recruit women anyway. However, it's not for this reason. People have been existing in many climates for long over thousands of years with access to regular bathing. You might as well ask how men can keep clean while dealing with excrement. And men are just as liable to infection or skin complaints without regular bathing.

Right. Women are as strong as men if they just try harder. If that is the case, why do they always have lower fitness test standards?

If you'd read my quote, you'd realise I wasn't talking about strength. I was talking about endurance and not burst speed or strength. This comes down to training, time and perseverance - effectively I'm talking about aerobic activities at your VO2 max. Arthur Lydiard - the world best running certainly believed so. He turned female runners into world class long distance athletes.

What I will say is this - a lot of young guys join the army because they've got nothing better to do. Some make a career out of it. A lot wash out. The females that's I've know in the military (and we're talking less than 20 over my career) that have joined has REALLY wanted it. It was a battle to get in and be accepted. I say fair play - they worked hard. They did well.

 

[Bible_Belt]

If you'd read my quote, you'd realise I wasn't talking about strength. I was talking about endurance and not burst speed or strength. This comes down to training, time and perseverance - effectively I'm talking about aerobic activities at your VO2 max. Arthur Lydiard - the world best running certainly believed so. He turned female runners into world class long distance athletes.

So...women are just as good at distance running as men? Then why do women always post higher times than men? Are you saying women have weak minds???

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_world_records_in_athletics

Look at all those lazy b!tches who could not set a world record as high as the men! Obviously, if they had just tried harder, they would have done just as well.

 

[Kenny Powers]

Wow hate on women much? Its misogynistic comments like the ones in this thread that are counter-productive to becoming a DJ and a man in today's society. We've all encountered a lot of crazy women, but do you really think the military would let some psycho BPD chick on the frontlines?

The military knows what its doing and how to properly determine a soldiers capabilities a h3ll of a lot better than you keyboard jockies. If a woman proves herself physically and mentally fit to be on the frontlines I have no problem with that.

 

[the_stig]

Not military, but along the same lines. One of my neighbors is a recently retired firefighter. Really cool guy. One day when talking about the job, he mentioned how much it changes once female firefighters were allowed to enter. The physical fitness standards were all lowered so they could pass, but this created a huge hazard out in the field because a lot of the women couldn't handle the heavy equipment, swing an ax, drag a downed or injured coworker out of a house or building, etc, etc. They were in the way, and made the job much more dangerous.

Look for the same outcome when they're allowed in combat.

 

[Noodles]

So...women are just as good at distance running as men? Then why do women always post higher times than men? Are you saying women have weak minds???

Obviously I haven't explained myself properly - my apologies. As I said before - I'm not talking about strength or speed. I'm talking about aerobic endurance. This is the ability to run a long distance and keep going. If strength or speed was important then soldier would all be 6'6" hulks. This is not the case. I'm not talking about race times - I'm talking about the ability to complete a distance. Nor am I saying that more women can do this than man - I doubt they can. I am saying that the ones that really want it can.

In the UK, the Royal Marine final training exercise involve a 30 mile march (called a yomp) carrying 35lbs (including weapon) over very hilly cross country. This needs to be done in 8 hours. Do the math and this 3.75mph. This is not impossible, but the reason people give up isn't the speed, or the weight. It's weather. It's their own inner strength failing.

A male soldier at his best may well be better than a female. But no officer cares about a soldier at their best - because when the gap narrows and it all goes wrong no one will be at their best. It's for this reason for instance that British SF selection course are designed to cause injury. They want to see how you cope at your worse.

All I'm saying is that in my experience that's gender independent. I think I'll leave it at that though. No point arguing.

 

[DJerk]

No wonder you guys spend most Saturdays at home wacking it off instead of making love to a beautiful young woman. You guys are girl haters.



And wtf does this thread have to do with dating?

 

[5string]

This is not about hating women. They don't belong in combat arms. End of fvcking story. Been in the infantry. Don't want to trust my back to an emotionally fvcked up hamster to haul my wounded a$$ out who can't read a compass let alone a map.

Sorry fellas. They don't belong.

I know! Let's just put a d!ck implant on all of them, give them some testosterone and let 'em do anything we do. What say ya?

Some of you just don't fvckin get it.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Police, fire, and military radio dispatchers have jobs that women actually do better than men, because women have higher pitched voices and are easier to hear over the radio. That's a genuine physical difference between men and women, just like the advantage men have in size and strength, which makes them better soldiers and firefighters. These are facts, not my opinions.

The idea of saying that because one group of people is different in some way is an insult or prejudice is simply ignorant. Different does not mean bad. Men and women just have different skill sets, and it does not matter how much we change culturally, the physical differences between the genders is not going to go away.