Why the "friends" thing can work

[becker]

I've been a long time advocate that just because a person is "friends" with a girl doesn't mean that she can't end up liking him as more. Probably the only caveat here is that you can't be "best friends".

I'd be surprised if you guys have never been in the position where you're around a girl that initially you aren't really attracted to for whatever reason (maybe she's only average looking at first glance, or she seems stuck up).

Let's say that you're around this girl constantly (maybe because of school, or where you guys work, etc), perhaps forced to start talking to her about everyday things and find out she's not stuck up, but actually very cool. Suddenly, the IL goes up a little.

After the IL goes up more, her "average looking" status, at closer inspection, is actually above-average. As time rolls by, she might go from average to HB, and now you maybe start feeling slightly awkward, even though you guys haven't expressed any different feelings more than just good friends that enjoy chatting.

Attraction is a state of mind, so talking certainly will help put a person in that state of mind, probably more than sitting there looking pretty. It's very difficult to be attracted to a person who you have trouble talking to, at least for very long. Imagine a girl who is totally gorgeous, and when you finally talk to her, all she does is whine, act stuck up, and treat you like a doormat. I don't know about all you guys, but I'd run the other way. This has happened to me before too.

Anyways, the point is that attraction can build by talking, even if it isn't saying DJ-ish stuff. You can just talk about whatever crap you want to talk about, and it will take less effort but will likely work better. Sort of like C+F I guess, but, it's probably easier not to think about it with a label like that. It's more like just being comfortable in not worrying about what comes out of your mouth. Don't we all feel the most comfortable talking when we just say whatever we want? I do it all the time, and I can make people laugh without trying to because it's much less awkward. Think of it like a comedian who stands on stage who has memorized his act and has the audience rolling. All he does most of the time is talk about everyday mundane things. Jerry Seinfeld for example, the guy is an absolute comic genius, and his material is based on this stuff. What makes it even better is that you end up telling jokes that are funny,and since you may not even know it, you won't be laughing at your own jokes, which will make people laugh more. Anyways, before I get too far on my tangent, back to the post...

This is sort of the process of how a friend becomes more than a friend, and this works both ways, so this can happen to the girl as well. I think we have all been though such situations before, but it shows you that being in the "friends" zone is not always a bad thing.

Basically, if you're around someone all the time, it will be tough for absolutely no level of attraction to build. It is up you to make sure you know when to strike, but until that opportunity arises, you need a way to get to know the girl better, and being friends with her, in my opinion, is almost the only way to do that.

 

[Brasco]

Great post becker, you just decribed a situation I am in right now with a chick. All we do is chat about everyday stuff and I can see her IL rising.

 

[Slashco]

I've been in that situation before, though I can't explain it. I remember years ago, in high school, there was this girl in my class that I never thought twice about. But one day I realized how beautiful she was, and I developed the biggest crush on her. Weird.

 

[Charm]

"There was once this chick I met who was very pretty, but we just spoke about normal stuff, and I was too nervous to bring the topic of sex or work any seduction into the picture. We just chatted about regular things, school, shopping, what we we're going to do on the weekend. We spoke on the phone every night for 2-3 years. Her IL sky rocketted. By the end of two weeks, she was f*cking my brains out like an animal..."

The above is an example of an AFC story that did not actually take place. The example goes to show that although it may sound like the perfect situation, its not going to happen. Moves need to be made in the direction fo seduction/sexual innuendo if you want your relationship with her to go in that direction. Story closed.

 

[squirrels]

...

Sometimes even AFCs can make DJ moves and not realize it on the surface. That's why they call it "getting lucky." They're so lost in it that they do stuff right and don't even realize it. I know cuz I've been there.

There have been a lot of posts here about AFCs trumping DJs and AFCs hooking up with women. Sometimes I just get the feeling that I'm not hearing the whole story. Somewhere along the line these guys are making the "right" moves that are showing some value to these girls, or else the girls just aren't able to tell the difference between true self-respect/confidence and the arrogance AFCs sometimes throw up to mask weakness.

 

[ApocalypseCow]

The "friends" situation CAN work, but not in the ways AFC's imagine it.

AFC's use the friendship as a starter for a romantic relationship. They are too gutless to risk rejection, so they try to become her "friend" in the hopes that she'll move the relationship into romantic territory. This almost never works (not with girls that are worth it, anyway), because the AFC has spent all his time on this one woman who is NOT his girlfriend, and hasn't demonstrated his sexuality with other women.

The DJ may be friends with a girl, but he is ALWAYS working other women as well. If he wants the relationship to move into romantic territory, his intentions will be CLEAR. And the girl, who has seen how good the Dj is with other woman, will know that this is a train that is leaving the station and it ain't coming back.

It's all about what kind of friend you are. If you're a spineless, wimpy tampon, you'll NEVER get her. If you're cool, valuable, and constanlty demonstrating boyfriend skills with other woman, you have a chance.

 

[becker]

Originally posted by ApocalypseCow


It's all about what kind of friend you are. If you're a spineless, wimpy tampon, you'll NEVER get her. If you're cool, valuable, and constanlty demonstrating boyfriend skills with other woman, you have a chance.

That's what I meant in my caveat. If you're a best friend of a girl, you can bet she's going to give you all her sob stories and stuff like that while you sit there and listen. I'm not talking about that.

I tried my best to paint the picture here. The type of "friend" you need to be is one that she knows well enough so that you can shoot the bull with her, but maybe not well enough so that you are her emotional tampon. There is a fine line there, but still a line. You need the friendship as a means to an end.

I mean, how awkward is it to just go up to someone who hardly knows you and just hit on them? Do you DJs like that experience? I mean, it's pretty tough to just be so random with someone you don't know at all. On the other hand, if you know them well enough to strike good conversation, well, then you have more of a basis from which to work your magic. I don't even particularly think you need to show you are good with other women if you don't want to, because this is more about knowing a certain girl, and making her comfortable enough around you so you aren't some creepy stalker she doesn't know, rather than making her jealous so she sees you as a player or something.

This I hope unlocks some of the mystery of attraction, which is something that a lot of people have basically said is not under our control. I mean, certainly you can't force someone to be attracted to you, but you do things that may result in attraction, which may not be aimed at attraction.

Bottom line is this: Why can we become attracted to someone who may not even be so physically attractive, but then suddenly after getting to know them better, they are much more attractive to us? The answer will be one of the keys to increasing attraction, and I say that I can't explain it, but it seems to all start out with me getting to know them better for who they are, then it sort of snowballs from there. It can't hurt to try it, since it seems to work pretty consistently.

 

[Brasco]

I have to agree with becker, it happen to me more then once. Like they said, DON'T BECOME BEST FRIENDS with her. I hardly even call them, the one I am working on now is always the one to call or pop in for a visite.

 

[becker]

Brasco, good to see that I'm not alone on this. What are the circumstances in your situation?

I haven't usually become such good friends that the girl calls me all the time, but I've gotten to be good enough friends so that calling her won't be an awkward thing.

The reason why being friends is crucial is that it can be awkward if you don't even know the girl and you just call her out of the blue to ask her out. It also makes it obvious that you like her, so perhaps it takes away all that challenge. She won't have much basis for wanting to go out with you like that except for maybe your physical attributes. It also hurts your game if you don't know her, because saying you like her at any time will make her wonder how you can like her for any reason other than physical, since you don't even really know her.

 

[uniassign]

OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I am speechless at this. This is not a flame, but just a gentle reminder from a guy who was from your line of thinking.

Of course you can EVENTUALLY end up with girls who have LJBFed you. But it might take 10 YEARS for that to happen. Meanwhile you could have dated and f&*ked 100000 girls just like her that are YOUNGER, HOTTER and more WILLING than this one.

Also she would have f&*ked 100000 other guys far better looking, richer and more confident that you are.

The bottom line is, don't make this girl your only prospect. Sure keep her as someone you are working on, but MAKE SURE you are working on 10 others as well.

 

[Brasco]

Hey becker, the circumstances in my situation is that she has a boyfriend who is from out of town but is at her place 4 or 5 days a week, I started talking to her about 1 year ago but not to much, maybe once every week and a half. then 8 months ago she got hooked up with this dude from out of town I think she was kind of seeing him even before we started talking, I had a very busy summer so I was not around much. Never spoke to her for about 5 months, then out of the blue she starts coming back around again when her BF is not around. She never talks to me about him, doesn't talk about her troubles, we chat about everyday stuff and I pull off some C&F a little bit on the side. It seems her IL is rising, her eyes are always focused on me. Me and her have more in comon then her and her BF. I met him once when I ran in to him and her one time at the store, he seems like a real chump. She drops in or calls at least once a week now and always when her BF is gone. I also noticed her BF is not down as often.

I am just playing the game, I am working on a few others but totally different situation, they are single so I am a bit more agresive with them. I still do the bar seen a few times a month.

 

[seloifter]

I'd simply like to point out that guys and girls do NOT work in the same way......

Guys develop oneitis for girls they hang out with alot
Girls develop friendship.

 

[Brasco]

But the trick seloifter, is not to hang out alot, and don't say to much about yourself, leave some mystery. It really does work, not all the time but you can tell without waisting to much time on her if its going to work or not. You never know, even if it doesn't work out she might have hot friends that she could hook you up with, it happen to me on more then one occasion. You can't go wrong.

 

[becker]

Originally posted by uniassign
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Seriously, I am speechless at this. This is not a flame, but just a gentle reminder from a guy who was from your line of thinking.

Of course you can EVENTUALLY end up with girls who have LJBFed you. But it might take 10 YEARS for that to happen. Meanwhile you could have dated and f&*ked 100000 girls just like her that are YOUNGER, HOTTER and more WILLING than this one.

Also she would have f&*ked 100000 other guys far better looking, richer and more confident that you are.

The bottom line is, don't make this girl your only prospect. Sure keep her as someone you are working on, but MAKE SURE you are working on 10 others as well.

Uniassign, ok, take a deep breath...first of all, this is a different situation. Here, I'M the one doing the LJBF-ing. That's the whole difference. It's as though a girl sort of seems like she likes you, and before she gets a chance to do anything, you just sort of keep things mellow and be casual friends with her. We're not talking best friends, and certainly this girl is not the only prospect, otherwise this whole discussion would be pointless, because I'd just be going after her aggressively.

The point here is trying to figure out how attraction works. To me, one way that seems to be going in the right direction is when a guy and girl are just "friends", but not really good friends. (Man, I've said that so many times, yet it doesn't seem to get through to some people). Anyways, you see the girl like once a week or so, kind of like Brasco is doing. Maybe more is ok, as long as when you're together you're not all over her or trying to get into her pants. Keep the convo to random topics, so she gets comfortable enough to be around you, but not comfortable enough to share her most intimate secrets with you. Make her laugh, do what a lot of DJs might do anyways, but don't treat it as anything more than 2 people having a good time around each other. That's the key, because you're walking such a fine line here folks.

seloifter, I thought you had a pretty good point, but as Brasco said, it's important to keep it so you're not hanging out with her 24/7. This is so key it's ridiculous. Do you guys see that this might be what is holding some of you guys back from being better DJs?

Look, for any of you who play sports and have exposure to sports psychology. Do you concentrate on the process or the outcome? If you think only about winning, what happens? You get tight, you freeze, you choke. When you think about the process, then you are able to act more freely and thus the outcome becomes the result of a good process. Hope you guys understood that.

Anyone else have an opinion they'd like to share?

 

[trajhenkhet]

To me, it seems that this is not a case of being friends with a lady but rather being a friendly acquaintence. A slight difference. But a difference nonetheless. How far has anyone gotten by starting as a friend with a woman without being DJ? Maybe by analyzing some cases some light can be shed on the subject. I'll start by saying that this never worked for me. In my unenlightend days I made out with this one lady whom was a casual acquaintence of mine. Sure her boyfriend was whack. Sure she complained about him. Sure we had some light kino going on. But nothing ever happend. No heavy petting. No kissing. Definately no sex.

Instead of trying to raise a woman's intrest level, I try and focus on improving myself and to be outgoing in anything I do. Its a variable I have some control over at least.

In any case I wish all you fellow DJ's the best of luck in any method or style of attracting the ladies.

 

[Brasco]

Also, to pull this off you have to be good at reading her IL by her body language. I was reading the DJ Bible their is some good stuff on there about reading IL and BL, that is a technic I use all the time and it is also a key factor in the situation we are talking about because since you are just casual friends you have to hold on some of the DJ technics.

Like becker said "you are walking such a fine line" that you can have two totally different outcomes.

I do beleive this technic works in some cases but it is not the way i do things all the time. I tried it 3 times, the first time I got the chick, the second time I lost interest in her but I had her where I wanted her, the third time didn't work out but I ended up with her friend. Now I am working on the forth one but it is still pending.

 

[becker]

Pretty sweet to hear some real situations where this has worked. Let us know how this one pans out, Brasco

 

[Brasco]

Hey becker, just figured i would give you a update on the situation, well its nothing serious but i want your oppinion.

I pulled one on her that I think has her thinking. She droped in today after work to say hi and see if I wanted to go out of town with her to pick something up ( its a 35 minute drive, one way). Normaly because this town I live in with a population of maybe 3000 if you count the elderly and the horses, I have nothing better to do so I normaly go with her when she is going. This evening when she poped in to ask me this is how it went.


Her: Hey what are you doing tonight?
Me: Not to much, just chillin.
Her: I am going to ***** tonight, want to come?
( She expects me to say yes because normaly I do go)
Me: No not tonight, hard day at work but thanks for the invitation!
( At this point you can see the expression on her face was of disapointment)
Her: Ohh, well I just though I would ask you
Me: I would but I don't think I would be very good company tonight, very busy day. Maybe next time.
Her: OK cool, If I see your around one day this week I will drop in to see you.
Me: Sure, the door is always open.
Her: Ok, I should get going, talk to you later in the week
Me: Cool, bye Kim (not her real name)

I have her thinking a bit now I think, she knows I work for the government and we don't work that hard that I can't go for a ride.

I drive by her place often to get to work and I noticed her BF has not been down for a few days. When she was over tonight she didn't seem to be her usual self, almost seemed a bit confused, even before I told her I wasn't going with her. I am thinking that her relationship with the BF is not going that well, but she don't talk to me about him and her at all and thats the way I like it, so I am just guessing. Thats why i think I am still in the safe zone with her because she never talks to me about the BF nor her problems.

Its time to turn things up a little bit, but I can't over do it. I have her in the right zone and I have a gut feeling that her & the BF are on the verge of a break up (normaly my gut feelings are 75% true). The only way I will find out for sure is the next time I go over to her place, her BF has his computer over there, this might sound stupid but these are good ways to find out things without asking questions, when I see the computer is gone and the room is rearranged to compensate the space of the computer, I will know its not coming back. Then it will be time to get her in a better zone. Like I said, its a gut feeling so some of this post is (if's & buts) But I think it is going slowly in the right direction, I am still working on others in the mean time. Bye for now!!!

 

[becker]

Hey, Brasco, nice to hear an update. Before anything else, is the guy bringing his desktop computer (as in the one you keep at home) to this girl's house, which is the reason why the room has to be arranged to make space for it??

Anyways, I still think no moves should be made until she has ditched the BF for sure. I mean, I know the feeling of wanting to make a move when opportunity knocks, but again, that's usually where this type of thing starts to spin into the wrong direction. If I were you I wouldn't refuse to go with her everytime, because I think after a while, she might get fed up and just stop trying. Depends on how resilient a person she is. You have to find out if you don't know already.

Remember, you can't stay too far, otherwise, you fall into the out-of-sight-out-of-mind category, in which case she probably will start finding other people to hang out with who are more up for doing stuff with her.

Crazy stuff this is, but interesting nonetheless. Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Brasco]

Hey Becker, the computer is already at her place and its his, I am just waiting to see the computer not there, then I will ask her if their is something wrong with it to see what she says. I think its a good way to find out without asking her flat out if they are still going out.

I only said no this one time to get her reaction, next time she goes I will go with her, I do plan on waiting to make the move, now is not the time their is still alot of unanswered questions. I won't make the big move until I know they are not going out anymore. All in all I think I am doing OK, even when I said no to going with her yesterday she still said that she will pop in one night this week for a visite, so I am still safe. I won't blow much more time on her, maybe a another month. If things don't change by then I will just give up on her, I will still be friends with her but I won't make any effort or go out of my way for her, actualy I don't really go out of my way for her now. I am not in love with this girl but I would like to get to know her better then I do right now , if you know what I mean.