why modern movies make AFCs of men...

[Delta]

CASTING....

the discrepancy between who WROTE THE STORY and WHO PLAYS THE PROTAGONIST. also discrepancy between a character as he's being portrayed vs. the actor playing him!

so many times, movies are written by artsy, sensitive and afc joes that we can all readily relate with. after all, if you COULD be out there fing hot chicks left and right, WOULDN'T YOU BE?! instead of sitting in a room and writing about it?

and they WRITE ABOUT THEIR LIVES. their frustrations. their inabilities to relate to women.

just as they think that most artists are liberal, it turns out that the point of view presented in most movies comes from the afc crowd.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS:

these movies get cast with ULTRA GOOD LOOKING, don juan guys!

THE LIE IS:

that these guys have lives like we do! and that since a guy that charismatic and cool and good looking can have a life like that, it must be alright (even admirable) to be like that too.

this results in VERY INCONGRUOUS SPECTACLES like brandon routh (new superman) putting lois lane on a pedestal as if she's the end all be all of existence, even though he could have ANYONE!

this plot detail in particular, getting hung up on a single person, is replayed in COUNTLESS movies and re-inforce notions of 'destiny' and 'meant to be' - even though attractive guys in particular would NOT get hung up and simply move on.

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sure, movies are fantasy but because of tricks of CASTING, they can become very very (and unintentionally - i don't think hollywood is TRYING to create afcs) misleading about the nature of life:

- stunningly good looking people have problems too and problems with relationships. BUT THEY ARE NOT THE KINDS OF PROBLEMS THAT AFCs HAVE!!! perhaps beyond the fact that most movies are written by afcs, they don't make movies about the dating problems of beautiful people because it is too unpalatably like the money problems of rich people... audiences would roll their eyes on their way to the exits.

(well, not strictly true: good looking people can acquire DAMAGE and neurosis for being judged solely on their looks... extreme cases lead to careers in porn/stripping, etc. but still, this is not you average joe/jane problem).

- this is a weird phenom: plot points about girls *****ing about being used and tossed aside - and they are stunningly hot. in real life, these are the fat chicks and the unattractive beer goggled acceptable that men use to remain sexual when better options are not available.

- "unattractive characters" being played by stunningly hot men and women with glasses on and bad hair dos and slouching. CLARK KENT is example number one. most ugly duckling stories too. makes audience think "god, i'd totally save her and be with her" where in real life, they would not only not need saving but would not have you! in real life, the ugly friend would REALLY REALLY BE UGLY and you wouldn't have her either.

- men's afc problems being given to attractive women. IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE jumps to mind. a woman like that would SOOOOOooooooo not pine over a single guy who was so resistant to her or wait endlessly for him to come around. problem is: writer is AFC guy writing a woman's role, casted woman is HOT.

- this is where was also get the idea that there are attractive girls out there who DON'T KNOW THEY'RE HOT!!! HAHAHAHAHAHhahahahahahahaha! by the time attractive girls clear puberty, they are OVERWHELMINGLY AWARE of how hot they are by almost daily re-affirmations by everyone in their lives (and a few outside!). there is no such thing!!!
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simply beware and be aware that if there are loser characters in a movie, they probably shouldn't look like that.

delta

 

[Reloaded]

Cool.

 

[KoalaKing]

I totally agree with you that most writters of true love story movies are AFC's, as they are living out their own unrealized dreams, desires, and fantasies through their pens, typewritters, and computer keyboards, if they were successful with the hottest babes themselves they would be out fu-cking one istead of writting a true love story about a fictional guy that they have created in their own minds.

I do however disagree with you on two points, the first being that a guy like Superman wouldn't or couldn't become obsessed with one particular woman, as I have known of many guys in my own life who were very successful with the majority of the hottest babes, yet they fell desperately in love with the one hot babe, many of these types of guys still want to experience true love and enjoy a happy family life with their beloved wife and children, so they can be heartbroken if the woman of whom they love leaves them.

The second one is that it is very true that not all of the hottest babes know that they are stunningly attractive, many believe that guys only want them for sex and that every guy desires every single girl for it regardless of what the girls look like, also many girls who are ugly when they are between 13 and 18 become gorgeous later in life, when they are 20, 25, 30, etc, most of these hot babes and there are many of them will continue to believe that they are ugly when they are gorgeous because of how the hunkiest guys thought about them whilst they were at high school.

I personally know a lady who was unattractive at 26 but gorgeous at 31, she completely changed, it was strange to see, she still thought she was ugly for a few years, after which she dumped her ugly AFC husband of over a decade for a cool AlphaMale hunk dude, things can change.

Two movies that I have seen that were different from the normal were Amin the rise and fall, where Idi Amin had his own harem of hot babes of many races whom he had kidnapped and enforced to be his wives, he had complete power over them and captured a gorgeous white babe from the Brittish Embassy, who either did as he desired or got killed, he didn't have to worry about AFC or any of that type of thing, the other was called Stolen Women captured hearts where a tribe of American Indians kidnapped two gorgeous white babes and one of the young cheifs enforced the one that he liked to be his wife, this again really couldn't be veiwed as AFC or AlphaMale as she didn't have any say at all.

Sometimes the movies differ but the difference between those one written and these two above are that they were based on true life stories. :yes:

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Um...have you guys ever met a Hollywood scriptwriter?

 

[Luke Skywalker]

According to the John Alanis e-book, the real guys were in the 1950-1960 movies, and if you want to know how to act like a real man, then you should watch tyose types of movies rather than the modern AFC garbage, but hey, a movie is a movie, enjoy yourself.

 

[realsmoothie]

These movies are not "AFC"ish because they're written by AFC's. It's because they're marketed to women. When it comes to Hollywood, the script has very little to do with the scriptwriter... it has ALL to do with how the studio figures the audience wants the film.

What you're seeing in a given romantic comedy is the ultimate in female desires... at least, as perceived by the film studios. That's why they always star a beautiful young woman in a great, upscale career surrounded by friends, and the film always takes place in Manhattan (maybe Chicago, rarely L.A. and very occasionally a city like Seattle).

I've actually written papers about the conventions of romantic comedies, so I think I know something about this...

 

[Delta]

koal king,

AHA!!! GOOD POINT! i totally neglected the butterfly syndrome and you're right, there are indeed hot chicks that come from a place where they still feel ugly for some reason. some, as you say, are the girls who were ugly growing up that blossomed into hot chicks and others are according to 'that 70s show' hot chicks at fat girl prices: weight watchers chicks! haha...

but i would say that this probably doesn't last long and either they turn out to be a really cool chick (maybe the best kind) that has a good perspective on things or they become vindictive banshees that employ man-ruining scorched earth tactics... haha, they should do a movie like this about two sisters....

also, yeah, a good looking guy could get hung up on a hot chick. i guess the problem with movies portayal in general is that they present this as normal and good. whereas in reality (according to the dj way), it is self destructive....

diplomatic,

i've seen them on tv and interviews and such.... also, the fact that they are screenwriters or writers says that they are not super hot! otherwise, they would be actors or models or whatever... at best, they're average. and their movies reflect that averageness. you shall know them from their fruit.

and their popularity speaks toward their averageness... they write about the lives of the average that average people relate to.

again, the dangerous discrepancy is the average life being dressed up as denise richards.

realsmoothie,

i'm not just talking about romantic/comedy chick flicks. i'm talking about action movie protagonists... teen comedies... i'm talking about almost any american movie that features a non-trivial male/female relationship.
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p.s. i got psyched up to see the new superman movie so i went and rewatched richard donner's 1970's versions.

pretty cool but the second was interesting for the most ultimate afc behavior ever ... but turning out a proper message:

superman gives up EVERYTHING in order to be with lois... he gives up all his powers. and he lives to regret it. by betraying himself, he becomes unable to survive in a world of pain that is totally alien to him and finds even that his relationship with lois may be in jeopardy. in the end, he discovers the error of his ways and reclaims his crown.

funny... almost like a dj allegory!

delta

 

[GaryUranga]

Thsi is why I dont always trust the patterns they use in movies to get the hot chix its all fantasy it actually amazes me when Im told that some characters actually do play a role that we should all be playing

 

[SELF-MASTERY]

Men have always been AFC's, and there has never been some magical time in history where lame men got the girls, or when society produced an over abundance of real men. I know someone is going to point out the 'greatest generation," but I'm steadfast in my argument.

TV does not make you an AFC. Hell I watch lifetime with my girl and I'm like so alpha.

 

[trajhenkhet02]

I was going to say a few 80's films got the idea right but after thinking about it for a moment different movies from different times all had the right idea. AFC to me is just an immature set of behaviors toward women that at their core, do not treat women as human beings.

 

[Delta]

i think it's more (and less) than that. there are a lot of 'sensitive mature pro-feminist' males who are so whupped they can't see out of their own rectums....

i think it's much less IDEALISTIC than the way you're putting it. and the proper recognition that we should strive for is that women (and men) are at their cores ANIMALS.... and this is MOST evident in the mating game.

look at it like this:

guys look for hot chicks. period. and every male will seek to get the hottest chick he thinks he can get. nothing profound or idealistic about that. in fact, it's the exact opposite of idealism (or the stuff of stories).

a guy looking for a chick who is noble and ugly is in no way mature - just bizarre.

girls too look for qualities in men that are less than noble and idealistic: power (social and physical), wealth, dominance.

in fact, afcs tend to be idealistic and attribute a great deal of 'human dignity' to women.... djs tend to be much more jaded and cynical and they behave in ways that from an outside observer seems VERY immature (teasing, posturing, bsing and fronting)... but it works.

basically, i think afcs are the opposite of immature... they try to be too mature....

delta

 

[IsiMan84]

Just a few opinions involving Hollywood and AFCs...

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?p=964906&highlight=hollywood+afc#post964906

 

[diplomatic_lies]

Frankly I never liked the 50s Hollywood movies. They were always about:

1) How great Americans are
2) How evil and stupid Germans are
3) All Asians are portrayed as buck-toothed losers
4) They sing instead of speaking.

 

[Mr_knowit_all]

Men have always been AFC's, and there has never been some magical time in history where lame men got the girls, or when society produced an over abundance of real men. I know someone is going to point out the 'greatest generation," but I'm steadfast in my argument.

TV does not make you an AFC. Hell I watch lifetime with my girl and I'm like so alpha.

You watch Lifetime television and you're alpha? LOL.....Seriously, if you were as alpha as you say you are, you wouldn't have to keep reminding everyone, including yourself.

It's my theory that most of these so called "alphas" on this board are nothing of the sort. How many of them have posted their pics? And don't give me this shyt that it doesn't matter what someone looks like. If this dude looks like "urkel" I'm probably not going to listen to his advice about women.

P.S. I definitely think the "greatest generation" produced more alpha males. If a world war broke out now, I shutter to think how most of our metrosexual males would handle it. The WW2 generation endured incredible hardships. They fought two wars simultaneously. I give major props to my bros fighting in Iraq, but nobody is going to confuse Iraq with WW2.

 

[flexion_]

Movies are meant to take you away from reality as entertainment.

I wouldn't base any of your success or lack of success with women on something you learned from a fairy tale.

 

[Delta]

interesting you used the term "fairy tale"....

used to be that you get a lot of mileage and relevance from a fairy tale.

anyhoo,

i don't really mean to say that modern movies are wholly responsible for afcs. just that they certainly don't help. and if you happen to grow up without a lot of good role male models (or any), it might just be that you get the ideas that you have from pop culture... as inadvisable as that may be.

i guess this is why the concept of "truth" is important in art. sure, subjective expression is important in art but there should be a modicum of perspective and insight that the audience can come away with.

delta

 

[Delta]

isi,

thanks for the link. but i posted this cuz it's a wholly different thesis-

that a big problem is created in the DISCREPANCY between the kind of character necessitated by the plot and the CASTING.

it creates a false picture of the world that beautiful people have certain kinds of lives and end up in certain kinds of situation where in reality, it might be that such lives are lived only by people who are ordinary, ugly and worse.

this discrepancy gives those situations and life stations a validity and inevitability and even attractiveness that they would not have if they were properly cast with actors that fit the type.

delta

 

[Nighthawk]

p.s. i got psyched up to see the new superman movie so i went and rewatched richard donner's 1970's versions.

pretty cool but the second was interesting for the most ultimate afc behavior ever ... but turning out a proper message:

superman gives up EVERYTHING in order to be with lois... he gives up all his powers. and he lives to regret it. by betraying himself, he becomes unable to survive in a world of pain that is totally alien to him and finds even that his relationship with lois may be in jeopardy. in the end, he discovers the error of his ways and reclaims his crown.

funny... almost like a dj allegory!

delta

Agreed, that is the message of the second one, underlined by how Lois begins to lose respect for him once he is pussified. Even though the films went downhill after that, they stuck with the character progression that Superman had learnt not to put some chick on a pedestal, though this was probably because Margot Kidder was too nuts to come back.

Sadly the new film seems to feature Superman as more AFC than ever - oneitis and stalker behaviour over Lois plus SPOILER he's a dead-beat dad. How Super.

As for AFC screenwriters, anyone see Sideways? It was a good, intelligent movie, despite clearly being a total AFC fantasy. The handsome, confident ex-TV star is portrayed as a clown who gets punished severely for his success with women, while the speccy wine-writer gets a crush on a chick way out of his league, blunders his chance to fvck because he's too timid, confesses what a loser he is and is a perfect caricature of every nerd that can't get laid and guess what the smoking hot babe decides she thinks he's cute as he is and adores his chumpitude.

I don't think it's a conspiracy to do anything other than sell tickets, but it's been a trend in cinema for a while. I was hoping Captain Jack Sparrow might help educate our youngsters, but even then they showed Kiera falling for the nicer guy, when it's Jack plank she'd be walking. Oh, and it's about four hours long and boring.

 

[Reloaded]

Cool.

 

[Delta]

yah... your read on sideways is right on. though i enjoyed it a lot.

i guess for most of us, it's far easier to identify with the afc than it is with the dj.

although hollywood could do us a favor whenever they DO feature dj characters like james bond or some other "women want him, men want to be him" character... break it down more and give us a read on the inner character....

but perhaps that's not really dealt with either because again, the writers actually don't have a good grasp of the (dj) character themselves.

delta