Why Getting Good with Women is so Important

[BPH]

I'll be honest, I thought about how I was going to title this for way longer than I should have, because I want to convey this message without it feeling like clickbait. I read a thread about body count in the Mature Man subforum, and was a bit surprised by how low the counts were for a community that focuses on developing as men to attract desirable women. I have some extra time here on a slow day at work, so I want to type this up and share why I think this is such an important skill to learn while using my recent experiences as examples.

The gist of it is this - you need to be able to tell "good" and "bad" apart, and to a lesser extent, not have that uncertainty about whether you will be able to find success.

Here's an analogy:

You've never had chocolate before.

You're offered your very first taste in the form of a Hershey's bar, and it's amazing - this is your new favorite thing. Every time you go to the store you only buy Hershey's when you want your chocolate fix, even if there are other options available. Until one day they're completely out of Hershey's...so you're forced to try a Twix bar instead, because you REALLY want something chocolatey, even if it's not the exact chocolate you want.

You're blown away - THIS is your new favorite thing. How could you have gone so long without knowing the Twix bar? Hershey's bar who? Then tragedy strikes - the store is out of Hershey's bars AND Twix bars...so this time you try an Almond Joy. Absolutely awful - you spit it out, throw the rest of the bar away, and try something else...

The point I'm trying to convey here is that men who have not been with many women will think that the woman they have is the best there is - oneitis, if you will. You might think that everything this woman is giving you all there is; sex once a week? That's a LOT for you. Fights over little things? Surely that's normal.

What many men will rightfully assume is that there is much worse, which is true, but won't consider that there is also better. And the sad part is that they may never come to that realization, because they're afraid of losing what they have, along with the uncertainty of when/if they'd be able to find somebody new.

This is why I think it's so important for men to develop the skills necessary to talk to, seduce, and maintain women. Even if you aren't interested in being a manwh*re like me, it's very unfortunate seeing how men are struggling to hold together an active sex or dating life. I have a friend who hasn't had sex in over 7 months. I have a cousin who frequently goes a full year or more without sex at a time. I know several guys who settle for bedding women that aren't attractive, but are "within reach". Hell, I recently posted about my FWBs falling off and having to do some recruiting myself.

Modern dating is difficult, but you have to engage in it so you'll have enough experience with women to tell when you've got a good one vs. somebody who's going to pick fights with you about things that didn't happen (speaking from experience).

Here are some fun anecdotes using my recent personal experiences:

Had a date 2 weeks ago in the middle of the week with this one girl who went to the wrong location. I ended up driving over to share a few drinks. We ended up making out at the bar, and as it was closing she wanted to spend some time with me in my car. We're making out, feeling on each other, I'm fingering her, she's talking about sex - everything seemed to be going well. But she couldn't have me over since she lives with family and wanted to set up for some other time. So I walked her back to her car, she told me she got home safe, I texted her a little the next day to set up another date and she blocked me. No idea why.

Had another girl I'd been trying to see who flaked on me 3 times prior. I wrote her off but she promised that this time she would follow through - and she did, but not without issue. I ended up spending quite a bit of money to reserve a hotel room since we both lived with family, along with drinks and Ubers. First, she almost cancelled again because she thought it was sketchy that I was running late (I explained to her that I checked into the room first so we wouldn't have to drunkenly do that later). But the real kicker is what happened afterwards. We had sex a few times, slept in, she had to leave before me, and we continued texting back and forth over the next 2 days. This date was on Friday, and by Sunday she removed and unfollowed me because she felt that I was "soft ghosting" her since I wasn't as quick with my response times, and decided it would be best to cut this off prematurely.

Then there was another girl who was trying to see me at the same time as the girl above. I made out with her in a West Chester bar and we had plans to hang out that weekend, but she wasn't responsive...until Friday night when I'm already with that girl. She proceeds to talk a big game about how she wants her birthday gift (more kissing), wished that I could've been free that night, and sent me pictures of her in her sexy cheetah-print outfit asking if I approved. I reached out to her last week to set something up for the weekend and her vibe completely shifted; she didn't want to give me the wrong impression because she doesn't like just hooking up and felt that was all I wanted. I assured her that wasn't the case, she seemed happy with my answers, then completely ghosted.

Anyway, the point of this thread is to emphasize the importance of being able to distinguish good women from bad women, while being good enough at attracting them that you don't have to settle for a bad one - because you WILL have to sift through a lot of dirt to gold. Whether you want to run up the score, find "the one", or just not feel like an incel, learning to attract women is a something that doesn't have any real downside.

So cold approach, go to the gym, get your money up, be more confident, learn to flirt, be good in bed - do whatever you have to do so you don't join that 1 out of 4 men who hasn't had sex in a year statistic.

 

[The Duke]

I had many experiences similar to yours. As I got better so did the women. I do thank those flakey low value hoes for helping me elevate myself to the next level.

 

[zekko]

I read a thread about body count in the Mature Man subforum, and was a bit surprised by how low the counts were for a community that focuses on developing as men to attract desirable women.

You have to remember for a lot of posters, if they were good at it to begin with, they wouldn't be here in the first place. So a lot of guys were late starters, and hopefully learned to have some success. But a lot of them seem to be stuck in the mud, spinning their wheels.

The point I'm trying to convey here is that men who have not been with many women will think that the woman they have is the best there is - oneitis, if you will. You might think that everything this woman is giving you all there is; sex once a week? That's a LOT for you. Fights over little things? Surely that's normal.

Well, I agree it's good to know what you're missing. But I also have to say that the most solid marriages I've seen are those couples that got together in high school and have stayed together ever since. They seemed to have formed a family relationship that is more solid than a mere romantic entanglement. Sort of like a lifelong best friend. With benefits.

 

[CornbreadFed]

Well, I agree it's good to know what you're missing. But I also have to say that the most solid marriages I've seen are those couples that got together in high school and have stayed together ever since. They seemed to have formed a family relationship that is more solid than a mere romantic entanglement. Sort of like a lifelong best friend. With benefits.

be honest to yourself, do you really want to marry the first girl you had sex with? Hell, what about your first true relationship?

 

[Barrister]

be honest to yourself, do you really want to marry the first girl you had sex with? Hell, what about your first true relationship?

No - but there were a couple of women I didn’t go for (because I went for the “hotter” chick) that would have given me a way better chance for an LTR that had way more longevity than any I had.

 

[zekko]

be honest to yourself, do you really want to marry the first girl you had sex with?

I don't, and I didn't. But it worked out that way for some couples. Those marriages are among the most solid I've seen. They're usually highly religious couples as well. I'm sure there are many (probably many more) cases of couples from high school marrying, and getting divorced not long after. I'm just saying it works out for some people. I wouldn't use it as a piece of advice, just an observation.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Out of curiosity, do you feel your hyper focus on women and getting laid is detrimental to other areas in your life?

From the outside looking in, I would think in your situation, the hyper focus would be on improving finances and/or career and women would be taking a backseat until that was situated.

Personally I think your priorities are in the wrong order.

 

[BPH]

I always hate reading these posts after the fact and seeing all the typos and errors where it's been too long to edit and fix them...

Out of curiosity, do you feel your hyper focus on women and getting laid is detrimental to other areas in your life?

From the outside looking in, I would think in your situation, the hyper focus would be on improving finances and/or career and women would be taking a backseat until that was situated.

Personally I think your priorities are in the wrong order.

I don't think I hyper focus on women. Maybe it comes across that way because it's most of what I talk about, but this is a seduction forum so I feel like that's kinda the point.

I generally don't talk about my job, the business I'm building, my workout routine and diet, or any other part of my life that I give considerable attention, simply because that's not what people are here to read or learn about.

My "hyper focus" on women, as you put it, really boils down to swiping on dating apps and going out to a bar for a few hours on a Friday.

 

[corrector]

I don't think I hyper focus on women. Maybe it comes across that way because it's most of what I talk about, but this is a seduction forum so I feel like that's kinda the point.

I generally don't talk about my job, the business I'm building, my workout routine and diet, or any other part of my life that I give considerable attention, simply because that's not what people are here to read or learn about.

My "hyper focus" on women, as you put it, really boils down to swiping on dating apps and going out to a bar for a few hours on a Friday.

Your friends do not hyper-focus on women.

 

[BPH]

Your friends do not hyper-focus on women.

My friends are also not successful with women. If they were I probably wouldn't come here for advice.

 

[Chow Mein]

The posters that replied have given a lot of nuggets for you, OP.
I can tell they’ve been there and done that.

No - but there were a couple of women I didn’t go for (because I went for the “hotter” chick) that would have given me a way better chance for an LTR that had way more longevity than any I had.

Cheers to that.
Life. The giver of lessons.

 

[Travel memoir21]

You have to remember for a lot of posters, if they were good at it to begin with, they wouldn't be here in the first place. So a lot of guys were late starters, and hopefully learned to have some success. But a lot of them seem to be stuck in the mud, spinning their wheels.


Well, I agree it's good to know what you're missing. But I also have to say that the most solid marriages I've seen are those couples that got together in high school and have stayed together ever since. They seemed to have formed a family relationship that is more solid than a mere romantic entanglement. Sort of like a lifelong best friend. With benefits.

Yeah I have a couple of Jr High sweethearts who stuck around that I see on Facebook that are like this….those middle eastern and Indian youthful marriage arrangements are on to something lol

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

it has been a sarcastic mindset of mine, it seems men tend to reap or just experience more side benefits than women do as a result of improving your dating life or becoming better at attracting a mate, women however, just stay the same it seems

 

[BillyPilgrim]

I always hate reading these posts after the fact and seeing all the typos and errors where it's been too long to edit and fix them...



I don't think I hyper focus on women. Maybe it comes across that way because it's most of what I talk about, but this is a seduction forum so I feel like that's kinda the point.

I generally don't talk about my job, the business I'm building, my workout routine and diet, or any other part of my life that I give considerable attention, simply because that's not what people are here to read or learn about.

My "hyper focus" on women, as you put it, really boils down to swiping on dating apps and going out to a bar for a few hours on a Friday.

This is a self-improvement forum for the flagellant minded, sir. No woman talk here.

 

[BPH]

I just got back from a night out and wanted to reply to this to showcase some of the BS you guys will have to deal with on your journey to finding a decent woman. @nicksaiz65, this probably applies to you more than anything.

I'm still a little tipsy, so hopefully, there won't be too many typos here.

Originally I wasn't planning on going out, but Saturdays suck and my last weekend out in Philly wasn't very fruitful, so I resigned to having to revisit the college bars.

It wasn't so bad; a lot of my old bartenders and bouncers still worked there, even if the manager who helped me skip the line was gone. There weren't too many standouts, but there were more attractive girls here than I've seen out in Philly, Trolley, or anywhere else in Delaware.

I'm going about my night just having a few drinks and scoping out the place when I see this gorgeous blonde at the bar. I don't do anything with it because I see her talking to this guy, so I write her off and end up approaching another cute blonde near that group. She's seeing somebody, but it turns out that she's friends with the gorgeous blonde at the bar, who, apparently, is interested in me.

She brings her over, and we start talking. I found out that the guy she was talking to was just a mutual friend of theirs and that she really wanted to talk to me.

I try to kiss her after some time, but she says she doesn't want to do it in a bar. We chitchatted for a bit, and I got her number. She tells me she's probably going to be here tomorrow but that she thinks she's leaving soon. So I texted her number, so she has mine and it goes through blue - this is important. As she's about to leave, her friend comes over and says her boyfriend is the driver and that they're planning to go to a nearby casino. She asked me if I wanted to come. I look over and ask my girl if she wants me to come. She accepts, so we all hop in the car and head over.

The entire car ride, she's nestled into the crook of my arm. I get a little background on the friend, her boyfriend, and my girl as we head to the casino. We don't spend a lot of time there - her friend and the boyfriend go off to play their own games while my girl and I play some slots and Blackjack. I end up losing a little and gaining a little, and end up with a small loss. I tried to make it playful by having her kiss me if I won, but she STILL declined.

The friend and boyfriend wanted to leave, so we all cashed out, and I walked with my girl back to her car. On the way over, I ask if she's into older guys; I'm 30, and I saw that she's only 22. She tells me that she assumes I'm older, but as long as I'm not "42 or something". Again, on the car ride back, she nestles into my arm. They ask me a little about myself and find out that I'm much older than they thought I was; their initial guess started out at 24 and rose year after year while I told them they were wrong.

Eventually, they brought me back to where my car was parked at the bar. I ask if my girl is going to be here again tomorrow night; she says "most likely," so I thank them for the ride and hop out. Still, no kiss.

I later texted her that it was nice to meet her and to have a good night and that I got the vibe that she wasn't that interested, but that it was cool, and I had a nice time meeting her. The first text went through blue, but the second went through green - meaning she probably blocked me already.

No idea where I went wrong here; SHE wanted to be introduced to ME, and when I tried to give her what she wanted, she refused. Maybe I lost her when she found out I was 30, but she admitted earlier that she knew I was older and seemed to be cool with it as long as I wasn't super old. So I have no idea what went wrong here. She was supposedly interested in me, but when I tried to give her me, she didn't want it, and didn't facilitate making it easier to have me; no invite to her place, didn't decline leaving with her friend to stay with me, rejected each invite for a kiss, etc.

Some of you might have theories of where I went wrong here, but the point I want to make is that you're likely to deal with a lot of BS on the way to your success. This girl supposedly wanted me bad enough that she was too shy to approach me and had her friend do the introduction for her - yet this same girl couldn't kiss me, didn't make it easy for me, and likely blocked me because I tried to give her what I thought she wanted.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch; numbers don't matter because they might not answer. Dates don't matter because they might not show. Kisses don't matter because they might not be interested sexually. Nothing REALLY matters until she's in bed with you, cuddled up, post-coitus. Don't get excited prematurely, but do understand that this is part of the game we play.

 

[CornbreadFed]

No idea where I went wrong here; SHE wanted to be introduced to ME, and when I tried to give her what she wanted, she refused. Maybe I lost her when she found out I was 30, but she admitted earlier that she knew I was older and seemed to be cool with it as long as I wasn't super old.

You were too old in her eyes.

 

[SW15]

do you really want to marry the first girl you had sex with? Hell, what about your first true relationship?

I don't, and I didn't. But it worked out that way for some couples. Those marriages are among the most solid I've seen. They're usually highly religious couples as well. I'm sure there are many (probably many more) cases of couples from high school marrying, and getting divorced not long after. I'm just saying it works out for some people. I wouldn't use it as a piece of advice, just an observation.

To answer @CornbreadFed 's question, I don't and I didn't. I also think @zekko 's comment added insight.

In devoutly religious communities, people get married very young. This happens because those faiths teach that sex outside of the confines of a marriage is a sin and prohibited behavior. A lot of young males and females who are in their teens want to have sex because of their hormones and they get married so that they can have sex within their religion.

There are still numerous religious colleges and there's a concept of "Ring by Spring". Ring by Spring means getting an engagement ring by the end of Spring semester of senior year of college.

Earlier in life was more of a thing pre-1980 than it has been post 2000. In pre-1980s times, more people were practitioners of religion or felt religious pressure from family members to marry earlier in life without much sex. The 2010s numbers are also from the early 2010s (think 2011-2012).

Nothing REALLY matters until she's in bed with you, cuddled up, post-coitus. Don't get excited prematurely, but do understand that this is part of the game we play.

This is very good advice. Guys who spend enough time in the field will eventually learn this.

you're likely to deal with a lot of BS on the way to your success.

A lot of BS happens in dealing with women. I've had to deal with too much of it over time. I dislike a lot of the ghosting, the flaking, the "one date, no sex, no 2nd date" type dates, the crap tests prior to sex, and the failed relationships. It's all bad.

 

[CornbreadFed]

To answer @CornbreadFed 's question, I don't and I didn't. I also think @zekko 's comment added insight.

In devoutly religious communities, people get married very young. This happens because those faiths teach that sex outside of the confines of a marriage is a sin and prohibited behavior. A lot of young males and females who are in their teens want to have sex because of their hormones and they get married so that they can have sex within their religion.

There are still numerous religious colleges and there's a concept of "Ring by Spring". Ring by Spring means getting an engagement ring by the end of Spring semester of senior year of college.

Earlier in life was more of a thing pre-1980 than it has been post 2000. In pre-1980s times, more people were practitioners of religion or felt religious pressure from family members to marry earlier in life without much sex. The 2010s numbers are also from the early 2010s (think 2011-2012).

The issue with religious couples is that most western men frustrated with women are not religious at all. My first gf went to a bible college in the deep south and the lives those people live are completely night and day compared to what other men live. For example, they aren't going to clubs every weekend trying to pull drunk women for a one-night stand. They are only open to meeting Christian women that go to their specific church, not just a woman that broadly follows Christianity. If people want to argue in favor of a Trad-con life then actually walk the walk not talk the talk.

 

[pipeman84]

To continue your chocolate analogy, if the next few varieties a guy tried would give him 1. violent diarrhoea 2. bad stomach ache + vomiting 3. he started eating and by the time he reached the checkout found out that he had to pay 15x the price on the shelf, he would stick to a good and tried type of chocolate. Unless he was very adventurous and a bit masochistic as well.

I think as far as women go, most guys realize this by the time they hit mid 20s ... either through personal experience or through observation.

 

[SW15]

They are only open to meeting Christian women that go to their specific church, not just a woman that broadly follows Christianity.

It would be uncommon to find a younger Catholic attending church weekly getting with a younger Mormon attending church weekly. In addition to attending church weekly (the bare minimum for active practitioners), many of these people are more religious activities like prayer groups, volunteering, and other stuff. They are also the types adhering to the rule of no sex outside of the context of marriage.

This part of the mating environment isn't well documented or well represented on SoSuave and similar forums.

most western men frustrated with women are not religious at all.

This is mostly true. The Western men frustrated with women aren't major religious practitioners. At best, they are going to church on major religious holidays.

Younger males (born 1981-2000s, the Gen Y/Millennials and Gen Z's) are less likely to be active in religion than the older generations were at similar ages.

The typical Western male who isn't an active religious practitioner doesn't adhere to a rule of sex only while married. He is seeking non-marital sex. There are plenty of never married males who don't practice a religion seeking sex. Without the network of a religious community, these Western males seek mates through non-religious social circles (generally getting weaker in Western cities), approaching strangers in real life (most commonly at bars), sending DMs on social media platforms, and using swipe apps.

In nightlife venues, it is typically non-religious or barely religious males seeking sex from non-religious or barely religious females.

Males who do primarily non-bar approaching (daygamers) might encounter females who practice religion. It depends upon how much they approach and where. It's possible for a daygamer to approach a religion practicing female at a generic place like a grocery store or the mall.

Daygame is difficult because most women aren't seeking new penis at any given moment. Additionally, during the approach, most women don't disclose their unavailable status. Unless a man goes ultra direct right away with setting up future plans, he will never know if his conversations are fizzling out in 30-60 seconds due to him being undesirable to available women or just talking to all women who are unavailable at that moment.

Getting good with women will help non-religious males break through the frustration, especially since they lose one major social circle community. It's a more difficult task to date strangers through swipe apps, DMs, and random in-person approaches.