Where I think this site is missing the point

[otr4]

I’ve been on this site for years now. It’s helped me a lot and I visit all the time.
However, in my opinion, this site is largely focused on SELF-IMPROVEMENT. I’m all about self-improvement and learning to take better care of yourself, etc., BUT IN THE LONG RUN, I DON’T THINK THIS IS WHAT ULTIMATELY GETS YOU THE WOMEN–this is where I think this site is misleading to a large degree. I believe most of us are missing the point.
Today, I found out that a friend of mine is having sex with one of the most beautiful and intelligent women I’ve ever met. This guy always has beautiful women. This friend of mine SHOULD NOT BE BANGING THIS GIRL. This girl is a star athlete, comes from a very wealthy family, drive a corvette, is worshiped by most men she meets, looks like a super model (and I think 99% of guys would agree with this) is very friendly and cool....the list goes on and on.
This friend of mine, who is now having sex with this girl, is HOMELESS, rarely showers, has no money, a piece of s*** car, is hostile to most people, literally sees women as objects, is short (even shorter than this girl he’s now banging), has somewhat bad skin, is a very average looking guy, doesn’t even have a steady job...again, the list goes on, (but I won’t go on–this guy is my friend after all).
Again, there is no reason that I can come up with for why this girl would be with this guy. One of my other friends who found out about this today got so angry and frustrated about the situation he could barely go to work.
The point of all this is that regardless of how much you improve yourself–get a good job, workout, improve your looks, have “ambition” or “drive” or WHATEVER else supposedly makes you more attractive to women, in the end doesn’t really matter when it comes to getting girls because there are guys out there who have NONE of this, who don’t ever “self-improve,” who STILL get to have sex with cool, super-model looking girls. Like most of you probably already know, something else is really going on when it comes to attracting hot girls and it doesn’t seem to come by improving your life.
Thoughts?

 

[JT47319]

Truly hot girls operate a little differently from average to pretty girls.

They're used to being worshipped by men and are constantly being fawned over. In other words, where validation and compliments still serve to get a nice pretty girl all giddy, those same mechanisms no longer work on a true blue 10.

WOMEN DESIRE EMOTIONS. For a true blue 10, being invalidated (negs, "mistreated") is a unique and thrilling experience. She can get validation from any average chump off the street so that attraction switch no longer works for her (or at most from an appropriately high value male). She needs and desires something different from a man.

This is why C&F CAN be such a powerful tool if used right. It serves to give women a ONE-TWO punch of validation AND invalidation, both positive AND negative feelings.

 

[Dee-Zy]

I think you haven't been on this site long enough, or you haven't visisted enough.

You have it twisted, you don't self-improve to get women, you self improve for yourself - women are the side effect.

If you work on self improvement just to obtain women in the end, you might as well stop.

I need more info on your friend, but obviously - he wouldn't be half as bad, because for one, you wouldn't be friends with him and for two, no girls (mind you, wether they are hot or not) would want him either.

Moreover, self-improving yourself doesn't garantee women either. You win some, you lose some. There is no absolute formula when it comes to humans.

Finally, I don't care what you have to say, because you only gave me ONE example. Now unless you can take me out and SHOW me ALL of the men that DO get women are as sleazy or even half as sleazy as your friend, then we should reconsider this notion of self improvement. What I'm getting at is, why do you bother with exceptions? There will ALWAYS be exceptions to everything. You would rather live your life in perspective of exceptions? I'd rather take a chance with generalization and rules of thumb.

MOST men will get what they want in life, INCLUDING women, when they pour effort in self improvement. Of course, not ALL do - but let me ask you this.


Would you rather work with most or try the least's?

 

[Dee-Zy]

Originally posted by JT47319
Truly hot girls operate a little differently from average to pretty girls.

They're used to being worshipped by men and are constantly being fawned over. In other words, where validation and compliments still serve to get a nice pretty girl all giddy, those same mechanisms no longer work on a true blue 10.

WOMEN DESIRE EMOTIONS. For a true blue 10, being invalidated (negs, "mistreated") is a unique and thrilling experience. She can get validation from any average chump off the street so that attraction switch no longer works for her (or at most from an appropriately high value male). She needs and desires something different from a man.

This is why C&F CAN be such a powerful tool if used right. It serves to give women a ONE-TWO punch of validation AND invalidation, both positive AND negative feelings.

This is where I can prove you are ALL theory and no experience. If you had experience you would know that HOT women ALSO receive hate, if not ALOT more than the avg to pretty girls. They are the ones that gets hit on as they walk down the street or insulted at the movies, talked down at the grocery stores or degraded when they go clubbin.

It's not all about neg hits and C+F buddy.

 

[Kineti[C]harm]

blahblahblahblahblah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


every kinds of guys gets girls!!

it just depends on how, what, where and when. Being a bad guy works GREAT but it will not keep women along for long, you switch alot.

 

[NRM]

So what, your discusting friend is getting the girl of every other man's dreams. He possesses something that attracts her. No matter how far you analyze it, that's what it comes down to. Attraction. Now, supposed that guy acted the way he did, except he was better looking, had a real job, showered, and did all the other quirks, do you really think the babe wouldn't fu[/b/ck him? Of course she would. She is already attracted to him for who he is, she isn't attracted to him because he's a bum, she's attracted to him because of something else about him. Give him some more credit, he gets the women and you don't.

 

[Dee-Zy]

Originally posted by NRM
So what, your discusting friend is getting the girl of every other man's dreams. He possesses something that attracts her. No matter how far you analyze it, that's what it comes down to. Attraction. Now, supposed that guy acted the way he did, except he was better looking, had a real job, showered, and did all the other quirks, do you really think the babe wouldn't fu[/b/ck him? Of course she would. She is already attracted to him for who he is, she isn't attracted to him because he's a bum, she's attracted to him because of something else about him. Give him some more credit, he gets the women and you don't.

tear


I love this kid.


By the way, don't use the tags to try to work around the censorship, cuz Allen will ban you.

 

[otr4]

HEY NMR--
I do get women and I AM GIVING MY FRIEND A LOT OF CREDIT.
You must have missed my entire point, but that's OK because you completely validated my original point.
Yes, even if my friend did have all that stuff---good job, showered, had money, good looking, etc, he would still get the girl. But the point is, HE DIDN'T NEED ANY OF THAT STUFF TO GET THE GIRL.
So what's the point of self-improvement if all you have to do is create "attraction" and you get the girl, regardless if you have NOTHING else going for you??

 

[NRM]

Your point from your first post was that we shouldn't self-improve ourselves because regardless of what we do, there will be guys who do not try to improve themselves and will get women.

RIGHT.

The point of self-improvement is, believe it or not, to IMPROVE YOURSELF. Self-improvement alone has nothing to do with getting women. Women aren't part of the self-improvement phase. As Dee-Zy stated, women are a result of self-improvement. Just because ONE guy that you can describe as dirty, unclean, broke, and unattractive, does not mean that you should not improve YOURSELF. I guarantee you that if he did put in an effort to improve himself, he would be doing a billion times better than he is now, probably having sex with the same girl, be living life in a better light to others, and just be more well off. Personally, I don't think your friend cares. He probably doesn't care about his girlfriend, his perception, his cleanliness, and he's enjoying it.

Just because he doesn't care and he gets ONE HOT BABE, does not mean that everyone should stop caring about themselves just because you think it's a waste of time.

Of course self-improvement does not ULTIMATELY get you the woman. That's all based on you, the woman, and attraction levels. But you can't honestly tell me that you would not have an easier, more fun, better time by improving yourself first. By improving yourself, you give yourself a sense of confidence that attracts the masses. Not just girls, but coworkers and colleagues. The guy you describe only seems to be attracting a woman.

I did not miss your point if your point was to quit trying to improve yourself because the other guy who doesn't care will be banging the girl that you should so rightfully have. My point is that you SHOULD improve yourself because improving yourself is one of those things you do have control of and DOES make you a better person, which in the end results in ATTRACTION by others.

 

[Raptured Phoenix]

Originally posted by otr4
So what's the point of self-improvement if all you have to do is create "attraction" and you get the girl, regardless if you have NOTHING else going for you??

This site is about focusing on YOURSELF. You don't glance at yourself and say "Am I something that this woman will like?" and then tear everything down and rebuild yourself to something she WILL like.

That isn't the point of what you think is "self-improvement."

You improve yourself to something YOU can like and respect. If you like being a bum, cool. If you like being a millionaire...cool.

So long as YOU are happy with yourself. That's the point. Women aren't the prize, YOU are.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

I once saw a blind guy win a game of poker and 10 million dollars at the casino.

Doesn't mean it happens every day.


If your friend had a place to live (the bridge isn't one of them), had a good job, showered, didn't pick his nose or whatever, then he could get higher quality chicks on a daily basis.

 

[Lord_Pancake]

This site is not misleading. It is about self-improvement. The site would only be misleading if it confused self-improvement with impressagirl-improvement.
which can be rephrased to self-improvement vs. other-improvement. The only difference is who you are improving for.

THe people mixing up self-improvement with impressagirl-improvement are not the site. The site is not misleading. THe site does not miss the point.
Its the posters. Particularly the hedonistic ones that come here for a quick fix. for an instant solution. The lazy ones that find other-improvement easier than self-improvement. These are the mixed up people who miss the point.

 

[Seeph]

Self-improvement does not get girls.. otherwise it would be called getlaidmore-improvement. This site focuses a lot on self-improvement, but think about it, this site is a forum. So in order for this site to focus on something it has to be something talked about on a regular basis. Which for lots of guys on this site IS self-improvement.

By improving the way you dress, your social skills, how to act around girls when they accept or reject you.. this is all self-improvement. Without knowing how to handle girls on a day-to-day basis you will have less success then if you do know how to handle them. Your friend - You don't know if the girl has been pressured her whole life to date "prestigious" guys. Your friend could be some type of excitement/rebellion for her. None the less he is getting laid by a HB+. If he had a good job and a place of his own and showered etc.. he might not be banging this girl, but most likely would be banging lots of other girls because of his ATTITUDE along with presenting himself better.

This site focuses on what people focus on. It is based on questions and remarks and their replies. Yes Self-improvement DOES help when trying to get girls.. think about this example..

A dirty guy who doesnt shower has no job or car approaches a girl that is friends with one of his friends.

BUM: Hey how are you? I'm Bum.
HB: Ummm im fine thanks. I'm HB.
BUM: So what are you majoring in here at college?
HB: Nursing. You?
BUM: Oh im not in school.
HB:Oh really do you work then?
BUM: No, I just hang out.
HB:Oh
BUM: I gotta go, what's your #? We'll hang out some time.

Most likely the bum isnt going to get the girl.

Decent looking Guy (We'll call him JOE), same scenario.

JOE: HI im Joe.
HB: Hey there I'm HB.
JOE: Nice to meet you, so what;s your major?
HB: Nursing, I've always wanted to be a nurse I guess. You?
JOE: Business, I've always loved the thought of being able to run a business or company successfully.
HB: That's cool.
JOE: I gotta go, whats your #? We'll hang out some time.

This is a little drastic but you can see the point I'm making. When you look presentable and have something to talk about, people will get a much friendlier vibe from you. I'm a little tired so some of my thoughts my be scattered but yall should get the idea.

 

[zerocelcius]

On the other hand.

one of my friends is a dog. Will do anything to get with a girl is totally sex driven and has very low standards. (although he says he has above average standards..bs) Well he quit his job and went to Italy. Once there he had amazing conquests. This Polish girl he met has to be one if not the hottist girls I have ever seen. He brought back pics to show and of course in his style of photography the girls are possed naked and looking suductive. Well when he got back he had no home and no job and wound up with nothing. I found him in a park and he is staying with me but before when he showerd he had girls, when he was a in Italy He had amazing girls. When He was the guy that slept in the park he had no girls.......

 

[Ol'BlueEyes]

For the OP

Invite your friend out sometime for a drink, sans hot girlfriend, and ask him, "Dude, how do you do it?"

 

[Reflex]

Originally posted by Dee-Zy
This is where I can prove you are ALL theory and no experience. If you had experience you would know that HOT women ALSO receive hate, if not ALOT more than the avg to pretty girls. They are the ones that gets hit on as they walk down the street or insulted at the movies, talked down at the grocery stores or degraded when they go clubbin.

It's not all about neg hits and C+F buddy.

Haha funny. I always thought hot girls got things handed to them on a silver platter. Dee-zy, reality check buddy. Anyway, what is the point you're trying to get across man?

 

[AFCinBC]

I'm no master but I somewhat agree

I know one thing, As a male who looks like a model I get hate ALL THE TIME HATE HATE HATE I'm not ****ign joking, and on top of that I score in the 99 percentile in every aptitude (do have bad internal representations) lack of grammar but I am considered a genius in every testable way. So not only do I look really good I am very smart and ppl hate me for it. This is no **** if I start a new job or go out I with somone knew I almost always have to beat somone up to get respect. I'm automaticly ostracized from normal ppl they always try to one up me or prove they are smarter better or tougher... constantly its annoying as hell. I dont doubt it is the exact same or even WORSE for a HB I mean at least I dont have women grabbing my ass all the time or giving me ****. so I agree on that point its socially frustrating for a true HB and what I believe to be a main attractor for this HB to your friend could be that he dosnt treat her well everyong has demons and psychologic problems and anyone who can immitate the behavior that is expected or secretly desired by the id threw experience will be seen as very attractive but I dont know **** so Agains I state ---- I have ssooooooo mutch time on my hands its insane look how mutch i post... just to talk... lol Help teh AFC!!! beat his ass or something

 

[AMF]

Re: I'm no master but I somewhat agree

Originally posted by AFCinBC
I know one thing, As a male who looks like a model

Ha ha ha, post a pic or STFU.

I get hate ALL THE TIME HATE HATE HATE

Even MORE people hate you now. Tool.

 

[resonance]

Truth is, there ARE women out there who love scrubby guys and men who smell like men. (surprise surprise!) Not all women want men who dress fashionably, are neat, smell good etc. because being with a slightly unkept men makes a woman feels more womanly. So obviously, your friend is doing something RIGHT, in order to attract HER. HER individually.

Also, there are a LOT of women out there like her, because when a guy is unkept and "can't take care of himself", it gives his girlfriend an opportunity to "mother" him, love him and take care of him. I feel that answers the question why many women like her are with many men like your friend.

I agree with the original poster: self improvement alone will not get you girls. Focus instead on other things, like physical chemistry, attraction.. right timing and so forth.

 

[AFCinBC]

I will post a pic If it pleases you

I just bought a digital camera So I'll post a pic once I get the drivers fixed for it. Shouldnt take long.