When a guy asks for advice, how about just that?

[WestCoaster]

OK, I know I'm from the laid back Northwest, not the East Coast where if you're not driving 100 f'n miles an hour down the middle of Manhattan you get screamed at and flipped off similtaneously, HOWEVER, how about when someone asks for advice, actually giving it instead of calling a guy a *****?

Lonely Editor was struggling with some issues, he put it out there, and several jumped his sh-t. I'm not trying to get all intellectual on you guys, but there's this thing called psychological reactance, that you do exactly the opposite of what is told you. I.E., when you were a kid and your mom told you to clean up your room, you didn't do it. When it got messy and you got to a breaking point and no one told you to clean it up, you did it.

Calling Lonely Editor or anyone else a puss, or to grow up, or to learn how to be a man, or whatever, is NOT, I repeat NOT going to get him to change his ways. He's seeking some advice, some tidbits of knowledge, not some Dennis Leery scream-a-thon. Some of us just come here to vent, some to seek a nugget or two of advice, not boulders of insults.

So come up with an honest, straightforward answer sans the f-bombs and name calling. He and others might actually take the advice then!

 

[Starman]

I work as a clinical psychologist in my town..and I have several clients that I keep telling the same things over and over and over..

and they just dont get it..

Sometimes I get frustrated .. but I have more compassion for them..the less they dont get the big picture..

I think sometimes the people here believe a good swift kick in the a$$ is what people need to get motivated (i.e. when you were FORCEFULLY TOLD as a child by your parent to do something! JUST DO IT!!!)

but thats not always the case to get motivated..Im not sure if LonelyEditor was looking for compassion, to vent, or to get some really good advice..

but I feel his pain..and am trying to help him out

but to the otherfolks..Like Westcoast says..you have to guage a persons mentality before you can decide what techniques you can use to motivate the person..its NOT always Demanding that they "grab their balls and be a man"

That makes them feel worse..because they JUST CANT DO IT..

 

[WestCoaster]

After he told a few people off, I got the idea

After a few times where Lonely Editor told a few people off, people should've gotten the idea. He wasn't looking for rants. Trust me, I've been in the business he's working in, you get crap 24/7 from your bosses (and sometimes it feels like you have to work 24/7) and you don't need somebody piling on.

Yes, some people need swift kicks in the butt -- at times I do -- but some people react towards positive interaction much better.

He gained absolutely nothing from the piling on, yet people kept doing it.

No wonder a lot of them are having a tough time communicating with women. They're not LISTENING!

 

[Starman]

You have to learn personality profiling..what works and what doesnt ..

There are many schools of Psych that address different types of problems

Cognitive/Behavioral - tend to be the kind of "a$$ kicking" approoach..where they try to change your old ways of acting/thinking

Psychoanalysis - tries to get to the root of your problem..and hopefully you will make connections from your past and how it affects your present .. to improve your life

Humantarian types tend to Give FULL COMPASSION, unconditional acceptance of the person and empathy for their problems..and totally accept them for who they are..and not define the person by what they think

Rational Emotive - Tends to connect rational thought...and the emotions people feel..and see if the person can figure out why something illogical makes them feel certain ways

there are others..but people need to learn one approach wont work on everybody

 

[WestCoaster]

Name calling doesn't work

I do know all of the counseling/psychological theories, having studied them and working in a form of mental health right now.

I do know that calling a person a "slimeball," "dumbass," "p-ssy," "wimp," etc., as Lonely Editor was called, would have about a zero percent success rate in the counseling profession. There's butt kicking and there's name calling.

This NNMMZZ guy or whatever he calls himself -- the guy who tore LE a new one -- is no non-DJ it's hilarious. Another thing about being a DJ is you don't name call or blow up at people, especially unknowns on a message board. A DJ is calm, cool, and collected. Each and every guy who jumped Lonely Editor's sh-t was automatically an AFC in my book.

 

[squirrels]

We're still human. We still get angry at certain things I, for one, have a very low tolerance for people sitting around feeling sorry for themselves.

I get angry when people ask for advice, and they get it, and then they REFUSE to implement it because, "It's so hard, it may be easy for YOU, but for ME, I just wasn't made for this, I feel so weak and alone, I WANT to change myself, but I can't. I'm a victim of circumstance, I don't belong in this world, I should've never been born into this time, life is meaningless, blah blah blah cry cry cry..."

Why do I get angry? Because I WAS THERE. It reminds me of how foolish I was to believe I was a victim of circumstance and how weak it was to convince myself that my life was beyond my ability to change.

And what amazes me every time is that people, like I used to, will come up with EVERY EXCUSE POSSIBLE to convince themselves that they're right to be hopeless instead of listening to the people who tell them that they're in control of their own lives.

They pull that, "My life is different...you don't know about me..." bullsh!t. That's exactly what it is...BULLSH!T. It's something they concoct because the alternative...the possibility of failure, of acknowledging that they may not be perfect, is so much worse. The thought of putting forth any effort is so much worse than just lying to yourself and making it seem like it's out of your hands. ("you" meaning people in general, not you specifically) We are ALL THE SAME...we all face the same challenges. It's just a matter of how you handle them that makes you different.

I KNOW EXACTLY how you feel...but sitting there feeling that way does NOTHING for you. It's a waste of time, the only limited resource yu have. And I get offended because I only get 80-100 years of time on this Earth, and other people have time they're not even using! Now I know how people must've felt when they looked at me and my "can't be done" attitude.

Do I mean to offend or hurt anyone? No. But sometimes I feel like driving my point home on the tip of a broomstick shoved up someone's azz because it doesn't seem to get to their head any other way.

Acknowledge that this life is YOURS, to do as YOU please. If you can't do THAT, if you can't take responsibility for your own actions...take COMMAND of them, then nothing and no one on this site is going to be able to help you, because you'll always sit around and collect advice and not accomplish anything.

 

[WestCoaster]

No offense Squirrels, but I'm glad you're not my counselor

First of all, you haven't resolved your transference issues. It's not about YOU it's about the client.

Secondly, a good counselor is patient. I've worked in mental health and have seen people down and sorry for themselves transformed -- not by yelling, not in one session, not in two sessions, in a good long, intellectual, thought-provoking, PATIENT therapeutic process that lasts over time. I'm pretty sure I could work with Lonely Editor and get him turned around, but not by calling him a p-ssy and not expecting miracles the first session in.

It takes patience, it takes time, it takes intellect and technique, and yes, it does take some confrontation. But getting a client to clearly understand his problems instead of just jumping them goes much further than looking for the quick-fix, because then in a few weeks they're back to their own sorry selves.

 

[Starman]

"First of all, you haven't resolved your transference issues. It's not about YOU it's about the client."

Thats true squirrels..you cant help a client .. if his actions and behaviors remind you of how much self loathing you had at your own behavior..

The problem with LE is he is playing a "victim" role..a type of "cry baby" if you will who needs soothing, compassion, to reinforce the idea that the world is cruel to him and there is nothing he can do about it..

He needs some major compassion for his issues, plus a HEAPING dose of cognitive /behavioral therapy to begin to clear up all of his negative thinking..

The negative thinking is suffocating and deressing him deeper and deeper

This is not something I could help him with over the net..and he needs a major rehaul on his perception of himself and the world around him to recover

 

[DJ Jr.]

Originally posted by Starman
I work as a clinical psychologist in my town..and I have several clients that I keep telling the same things over and over and over..

Look at my other post "Women are so confusing" someone said I had some mental kinks to work out and it intrigues me maybe you can understand wtf they meant since they never answered my question LOL

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Hey, are we creating a Psych board or what??? If we are, count me in!!! I'm going back to school to become a therapist.

 

[DJ Jr.]

LOl I love Psychology and psychoanalysing people...its amazing how easy it is to control people once you know which buttons to push.

 

[Starman]

Franscisco..its not all fun and games..

the pay sucks balls..people think your career is a quack..and sometimes your clients can actually wind up depressing YOU and changing your view of the world

The reward is not equivalent to what you put in..unless its your passion and you dont care

plus the future is sketchy..with all these new meds popping up..people opt for the quick medication instead of the agonizing work of doing it traditionally

This site is all about psychology..thats why Im here

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Originally posted by Starman
Franscisco..its not all fun and games..

the pay sucks balls..people think your career is a quack..and sometimes your clients can actually wind up depressing YOU and changing your view of the world

The reward is not equivalent to what you put in..unless its your passion and you dont care

plus the future is sketchy..with all these new meds popping up..people opt for the quick medication instead of the agonizing work of doing it traditionally

This site is all about psychology..thats why Im here

Thanks for the insight and trust me, I'm not in it for only the money (or lack of). I plan on having a couple of specialties, marriage counseling, mediations and family counceling. On the side I plan to give seminars to AFCs. And I agree that this site is all about psychology, self esteem and communication.

 

[NMMWCR]

Yeah. I hammered the guy. For the same reason as squirrels. I remember the pain of being that way.

At first I wrote him a really long "chin up" post. Took a break partway through to take care of a few domestic chores, came back and asked myself what I needed when I was in LE's shoes. The answer was I needed a good swift kick in the teeth. So I deleted my original reply and gave him what I thought he needed most.

I also sent him a PM explaining why I busted his chops and offering real help without the kid gloves. Sh1t, I can't help him anymore than the rest of you can. He has to help himself. I think he at least understands that much so there is still hope for him.

The guy has major issues and is taking entirely the wrong approach to fixing them by going into "i'm a loser" mode. So I provided a little (a lot actually) negative reinforcement to get him moving in another direction.

I'm pulling for him. Really. We all are.

 

[squirrels]

Re: No offense Squirrels, but I'm glad you're not my counselor

Originally posted by WestCoaster
First of all, you haven't resolved your transference issues. It's not about YOU it's about the client.

Secondly, a good counselor is patient. I've worked in mental health and have seen people down and sorry for themselves transformed -- not by yelling, not in one session, not in two sessions, in a good long, intellectual, thought-provoking, PATIENT therapeutic process that lasts over time. I'm pretty sure I could work with Lonely Editor and get him turned around, but not by calling him a p-ssy and not expecting miracles the first session in.

It takes patience, it takes time, it takes intellect and technique, and yes, it does take some confrontation. But getting a client to clearly understand his problems instead of just jumping them goes much further than looking for the quick-fix, because then in a few weeks they're back to their own sorry selves.

And I'm glad you're not my patient. And what's more, I'm glad I dropped Psychology as a major in college when I realized it was a 50/50 mix of common sense (learned through interaction with other people) and utter bullsh!t.

You're going to get on my case about transferrence and lack of patience. What you don't understand is that I'm not your therapist. I didn't come to this site with some altruistic notion of helping anyone. This isn't a therapist/client relationship...it's a peer-to-peer relationship. You and I...we're both here for the same reason: we need help with women and with our lives in general.

Psychologists tell you you should try to reason with your children, instead of spanking them. The thing they don't consider is that CHILDREN CAN'T REASON! They don't have the life experiences or mental development yet to put two and two together, so in essence you're just babbling at them.

Same with AFCs...you can try to offer them comfort and advice, but some of them are just so far gone, have built up such defensive cognitions, that they are INCAPABLE of reasoning away their misconceptions. You have to SNATCH them out from under them, force them to cope in the primal, sub-thought level...then, once they learn how attraction works, they can start to reason which of their ideas are correct and which are misconceptions.

Another thing you neglect to think about is that a therapist can only help clients who WANT to be helped. If you sit there and ask for advice, and people tell you to approach women and show confidence and make eye contact, and you throw it all back in their face and say, "Oh I can't do that, I'm not capable of that, I'm different, you don't understand me...etc etc etc", then it's obvious that you DON'T want to be helped. You're just looking for sympathy. I'm not very good at giving sympathy. Women are good for sympathy. Men are good for solutions.

I'm sorry I disappoint you. But frankly, your judgement of me doesn't really change the way I think. However, I will try to be "nicer" in the future.

 

[Starman]

you squirrels..

look at it this way..think of your WORST fear..being in a pool of snakes? skydiving? being naked in front of 500 people?

Now If I just FORCED you to confront your fears..and DEMANDED you do it..would you?

its the same thing with LE..I personally think he has some type of social phobia..and the attributes of that..low self esteem, extreme fear of embarressment, negative self concept, and afraid of social interaction

Ive worked with people with social phobia..getting them to interact with people is like jumping in a pit of snakes