What do you use in the pre and post whey intake?

[NeedToImprove]

pre workout - 2 scoops whey ON + 2 weetabix ( oat is a good replacement)

post workout - which one is the best to use with the whey ? Vitargo, Dextrose, Maltodextrin, cornstarch ? And how many scoops should i use with the whey?

im on a cutting diet btw

 

[EFFORT]

Follow this

30 min Preworkout: 30g maltodextrin, 15-25g whey, 5g creatine mono, 5g taurine

During workout: 30g waxy maize, 5g creatine mono, 5g taurine

Immediately post workout : 40g waxy maize ,5g creatine, 5g taurine, 20g whey

20 min later: 50g complex carbs, 30g whey

 

[waynejohn]

Follow this

I don't believe in all that, but I'm not going create a discussion.

I would just suggest that you get a good amount of fructose in post work-out, regardless of whatever else you do. Preferably from fruit.

 

[CarlitosWay]

pre workout - 2 scoops whey ON + 2 weetabix ( oat is a good replacement)

post workout - which one is the best to use with the whey ? Vitargo, Dextrose, Maltodextrin, cornstarch ? And how many scoops should i use with the whey?

im on a cutting diet btw

I think you would be fine with something like 40-80 grams malto + 2 tablespoons of dextrose immediately post workout. Than 1/2 hour later 2 scoops of whey protein.

I always have 1-2 scoops whey protein + 1 scoop malto pre workout, same during training and after I have 80+ grams malto + raisins than protein shake 1/2 hour or so after. Yet I'm bulking

 

[CarlitosWay]

I don't believe in all that, but I'm not going create a discussion.

I would just suggest that you get a good amount of fructose in post work-out, regardless of whatever else you do. Preferably from fruit.

In the grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter as long as one gets in some damn carbs, some high GI carbs Post work out especially! I know people who use waxy maize or maltodextrin+dextrose, I know some who drink grape juice. Yet it all works for them. The differences could be very minuscule.

I'm a firm believer now of quickly refilling glycogen storages that got depleted during training immediately post workout with high gi carbs+complex carbs and than after having my protein shake, than later another post workout meal with some protein+carbs. It just makes sense to me.

EFFORT recommends taurine, my pre-workout drink has beta alanine+taurine. I know many serious lifters who swear by taurine and there's studies to prove it helps.

 

[Drum&Bass]

Oatmeal in Almond Milk with blueberries and organic honey and 8 - 10 grams of fish oil.

I'll drink whey protein through out the work out sometimes.

I dont do it often but caffeine before a work out makes a big difference as well.


EFFORT what brand of supps do you use ?? thats looks like a solid pre-peri-post, plan.

 

[waynejohn]

as long as one gets in some damn carbs, some high GI carbs Post work out especially!
I'm a firm believer now of quickly refilling glycogen storages that got depleted during training immediately post workout with high gi carbs+complex carbs

There is muscle glycogen and liver glycogen. You can't just consume "carbs." You have to make sure some of those carbs you eat are fruit, especially after a workout.

I don't care about what specific things people eat around their workouts or what kind of crazy supplements they buy, to each his own.

 

[CarlitosWay]

There is muscle glycogen and liver glycogen. You can't just consume "carbs." You have to make sure some of those carbs you eat are fruit, especially after a workout.

I don't care about what specific things people eat around their workouts or what kind of crazy supplements they buy, to each his own.

No you don't "Have to" have fructose. I know many who don't ever have fruit PWO. Any high gi simple carbs will work, dextrose, white rice, kids cereal etc etc

Insulin is the anabolic hormone and Glucagon is the catabolic hormone. The reason you want to eat fast acting carbs and protein after you workout is because the carbs will cause insulin to increase, this then leads to a greater absorption of protein. The protein is then delivered to your muscles for growth and repair

Biochemically,
When you work out the body uses up the glucose for energy and when you run out of glucose the body goes to the glycogen reserves of the muscle and liver. When liver glycogen runs out the hormone glucagon is released. At this point your body is essentially in a catabolic state. Glucagon is released when your body senses really low levels of glucose in the blood. Glucogenesis then takes place and the body pretty much starts breaking down fats and protein to use as energy. If you continue working out then it's pretty much protein being broken down because the body cannot breakdown fats during high intensity training.

Sooo... when you're done training you want to supply the body with food as soon as possible. Preferable carbs/glucose because that's the bodys preferred source of energy, and it increases insulin. It just takes too long for fats to be converted and during that time your body is eating up the protein as a fuel source so no growth and repair can occur. Thats why carbs and proteins after training is better than fats and protein.

So as long as you're getting some carbs/hi gi carbs you're fine. Your liver glycogen storages are the last to be used up and that's IF you slack off on eating adequate amounts of carbs @ other times. So if one just concentrates on keeping his muscle glycogen "full" he won't ever have to worry about it.

Another great read for those who are curious, this coming from Christian Thibs of T-Nation.....

Let me get this straight:

1. you want to know how much glycogen we can store.
2. you are aware that it depends on the amount of muscle ones carry (which is true)
3. you don't know the amount of muscle you have but you want to know ho to find out glycogen storage anyway

It's like asking how many boxes you can fit in a room if you don't know how big the boxes and room are!!!

Liver glycogen is pretty stable with a max of 60-90g of glucose stored

For muscle, it's 14g/kg of muscle mass.

The problem is, as you mention, that it is hard to establish how much muscle you have.

Take someone who is 200lbs with 10% body fat. It would be the normal assumption to say that this individual has 20lbs of body fat and 180lbs of lean body mass and equate this amount of body mass to the amount of muscle we have. This is a mistake. Muscle mass accounts for roughly 40% of our lean mass (the rest being water, bones, skeleton, organs).

In reality this individal would have around 72lbs of muscle mass, or around 33kg.

33kg x 14g/kg = 462g of carbs that can be stored.

In general, the average size male lifter will be able to store anywhere from 350 to 500g of carbs as glycogen.

Let me get this straight:

1. you want to know how much glycogen we can store.
2. you are aware that it depends on the amount of muscle ones carry (which is true)
3. you don't know the amount of muscle you have but you want to know ho to find out glycogen storage anyway

It's like asking how many boxes you can fit in a room if you don't know how big the boxes and room are!!!

Liver glycogen is pretty stable with a max of 60-90g of glucose stored

For muscle, it's 14g/kg of muscle mass.

The problem is, as you mention, that it is hard to establish how much muscle you have.

Take someone who is 200lbs with 10% body fat. It would be the normal assumption to say that this individual has 20lbs of body fat and 180lbs of lean body mass and equate this amount of body mass to the amount of muscle we have. This is a mistake. Muscle mass accounts for roughly 40% of our lean mass (the rest being water, bones, skeleton, organs).

In reality this individal would have around 72lbs of muscle mass, or around 33kg.

33kg x 14g/kg = 462g of carbs that can be stored.

In general, the average size male lifter will be able to store anywhere from 350 to 500g of carbs as glycogen.

Let me get this straight:

1. you want to know how much glycogen we can store.
2. you are aware that it depends on the amount of muscle ones carry (which is true)
3. you don't know the amount of muscle you have but you want to know ho to find out glycogen storage anyway

It's like asking how many boxes you can fit in a room if you don't know how big the boxes and room are!!!

Liver glycogen is pretty stable with a max of 60-90g of glucose stored

For muscle, it's 14g/kg of muscle mass.

The problem is, as you mention, that it is hard to establish how much muscle you have.

Take someone who is 200lbs with 10% body fat. It would be the normal assumption to say that this individual has 20lbs of body fat and 180lbs of lean body mass and equate this amount of body mass to the amount of muscle we have. This is a mistake. Muscle mass accounts for roughly 40% of our lean mass (the rest being water, bones, skeleton, organs).

In reality this individal would have around 72lbs of muscle mass, or around 33kg.

33kg x 14g/kg = 462g of carbs that can be stored.

In general, the average size male lifter will be able to store anywhere from 350 to 500g of carbs as glycogen.

Let me get this straight:

1. you want to know how much glycogen we can store.
2. you are aware that it depends on the amount of muscle ones carry (which is true)
3. you don't know the amount of muscle you have but you want to know ho to find out glycogen storage anyway

It's like asking how many boxes you can fit in a room if you don't know how big the boxes and room are!!!

Liver glycogen is pretty stable with a max of 60-90g of glucose stored

For muscle, it's 14g/kg of muscle mass.

The problem is, as you mention, that it is hard to establish how much muscle you have.

Take someone who is 200lbs with 10% body fat. It would be the normal assumption to say that this individual has 20lbs of body fat and 180lbs of lean body mass and equate this amount of body mass to the amount of muscle we have. This is a mistake. Muscle mass accounts for roughly 40% of our lean mass (the rest being water, bones, skeleton, organs).

In reality this individal would have around 72lbs of muscle mass, or around 33kg.

33kg x 14g/kg = 462g of carbs that can be stored.

In general, the average size male lifter will be able to store anywhere from 350 to 500g of carbs as glycogen.

Just some interesting stuff to read about

 

[waynejohn]

This is retarded.

I never said "Don't eat carbs after a workout." What I said was you can get them in however you want.

What I also said was some of those carbs should be fructose. Fructose is metabolized by the liver. It is the fastest way to produce liver glycogen.

Really, can you show me where I said "do not eat carbs" in this thread?

No one has to do anything anyone says here.

 

[CarlitosWay]

This is retarded.

I never said "Don't eat carbs after a workout." What I said was you can get them in however you want.

What I also said was some of those carbs should be fructose. Fructose is metabolized by the liver. It is the fastest way to produce liver glycogen.

Really, can you show me where I said "do not eat carbs" in this thread?

No one has to do anything anyone says here.

I'm debating the whole "have to" have some fruit pwo idea . The other stuff was just fluff for newbies to read and learn a bit. I eat fruit but it's usually in the morning and I'll only have a few pieces. I've been having raisins post work out though! If I switched that to dextrose it would be better those as it has a real hi GI of 80+ where raisins sit at @ around a low 55. You want a huge insulin response post work out always.

 

[waynejohn]

I'm debating the whole "have to" have some fruit pwo idea

You all push for high-gi carbs, dextrose, waxy maize, sugar, all that because it promotes insulin secretion the fastest and refill glycogen, right? That is your reasoning for consuming dextrose over pasta or rye bread immediately PWO, right?

So when I say, eat fruit after a workout since that is the fastest way to replenish liver glycogen and help the anabolic drive along, how is that any different?

 

[NeedToImprove]

doesnt dextrose create more fat than maltodextrin or waxy mayze? im cutting not bulking.

also i've read that fruit and milk are big no no's in a cutting diet, that's why i drink my whey always with water.

 

[CarlitosWay]

You all push for high-gi carbs, dextrose, waxy maize, sugar, all that because it promotes insulin secretion the fastest and refill glycogen, right? That is your reasoning for consuming dextrose over pasta or rye bread immediately PWO, right?

So when I say, eat fruit after a workout since that is the fastest way to replenish liver glycogen and help the anabolic drive along, how is that any different?

I get where you're coming from. Yeah if one doesn't eat a lot of fruit at other times of the day I see no problem with what you're saying. It honestly doesn't take much to fill up your liver glycogen is all I'm getting at and many take in too much (juice + fresh fruits it can add up real quick)and you get "spillover" which can lead to fat gains. high GI carbs and complex carbs should be the BULK is all I'm trying to say.

doesnt dextrose create more fat than maltodextrin or waxy mayze? im cutting not bulking.

also i've read that fruit and milk are big no no's in a cutting diet, that's why i drink my whey always with water.

Wtf are you talking about? Do you have reading comprehension issues? You want to take in some high GI carbs like Dextrose post workout ! Always! Yeah milk sucks for most people, yet if it's all I had access to I'd still drink it than have nothing. Fruit are ok just never have more than 1-2 servings in a setting and never more than like 4-5 pieces.

Eating too much junk/sugary foods and Eating more calories than you burn in a day creates spillover more fat etc etc.