What do you think is the average succes rate?

[Stagger Lee]

If one knew the average success rate from cold approach to lay, it might be useful or at least interesting to know if you are needing a lot of improvement or are very efficient at obtaining closes. It kind of like the concept of the bell curve in statistics. Now obviously no man is 100% and some, maybe quite a few, are 0%. And if you are at either extreme it is pretty obvious where you are at. But it is the vast majority, 70% or so, it might not be that clear how well you are doing.

Most guys I've known had a succes rate of under 10%. What can complicate the rate is some guys are almost indiscriminate approach machines. They would have a success rate in the low single digits. They may approach as many as a 100 girls to get one lay. And others might not be willing to close every girl that they have the the opportunity to. Others may pick their targets better and sense IOI first and would at a higher rate +20% or higher.

But what I've seem to notice is most guys would have to go out in the field and make attempts on an average ratio of 10:1 to get a lay. Now I know there are some guys who can get a close just about every weekend, but I don't know any of them personally well enough to verify that. This is just to give an idea of how it is a numbers game and that it takes some effort to get hook ups.

What has everyone else noticed the average batting average to be? Getting what you want is the goal, but getting that reliably and efficiently as possible is certainly jsust as important.

 

[Mike32ct]

I know Louis and Copeland once said the best seducers are at about 10 percent. That number sounds reasonable.

However, I don't keep solid records because there are way too many variables to do an "apples to apples" comparison.

Let's say one guy has an 8% close ratio and the other guy has a 30% close ratio. Is the guy with the 30% really hot looking and/or does he have really good target selection skills? Maybe the guy with the 8% COULD have higher numbers, but he focuses on younger, hotter chicks so his percentages are lower than a guy that will F anything that moves.

The venue is a HUGE factor in this game too. Maybe one guy found a club that really works well for him while the other guy found some bar that is more hit and miss.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all could calculate our "ratios" but it wouldn't be fair to compare them due to differences in looks, age, venues, attractiveness of women we go after, etc. Some guy might have an 80% ratio with fatties and UGs lol. Some other guy might have a 1 percent ratio, but scores a 9 or 10.

Personally, I'm all over the place. With the right venue, I've been as high as 60 percent. In several other places, I'm literally at zero. I'm guessing my long term average is something like 6 percent. I never said this game was easy :rock:

 

[Knight's Cross]

Stagger,
Good question. Most guys are out there wandering around with the sniper mentality. They waste inordinate amounts of time chasing one woman. In military aviation we used to call that target fixation. You may crash your airplane because you've closed off all other warning bells and clues just to chase one silly target. With a shotgun approach you get alot more hits. Not spending all your energy with one woman, but spreading it out to see what possibilities are out there. I'd say my overall percentage is in the single digits per approach. Granted I've hit the age where approach to lay isn't my overall goal anymore. Hitting it, just to hit it....well case in point, if a woman doesn't have her collective stuff together, I won't waste a lay. Went out with a woman the other week that had daddy issues. She was hot, but I waived off after 2 dates. I won't sink my gear into that.
KC

 

[Stagger Lee]

All good points. I guess the main take away message is that it is a numbers game, so don't get discouraged even if your results seem low.

One thing you can consider is if you are getting a high percentage of closes, it probably is a sign that you can raise the quality of girls you target. If you are say getting near 50% close with UG or 5's and 6's, you should be going after 8 and 9's more often. And vice versa, if you are getting under 10% you might need to consider going after less attractive girls, change your venue and/or your tactics.

As far as being a sniper vs shotgun. That plays into the numbers game and for shotgun approach also being seen as social and being seen interacting with many girls to work the jealousy dynamic. Sometimes being a sniper is the right move when you got a good target and your aim is good so to speak. You have to be willing to change targets when it's called for of course. I guess it depends on the context of sniper vs shotgun. In the field you don't want to be all shot gunning and no sniping.

 

[Boilermaker]

Stagger,
Good question. Most guys are out there wandering around with the sniper mentality. They waste inordinate amounts of time chasing one woman. In military aviation we used to call that target fixation. You may crash your airplane because you've closed off all other warning bells and clues just to chase one silly target. With a shotgun approach you get alot more hits. Not spending all your energy with one woman, but spreading it out to see what possibilities are out there. I'd say my overall percentage is in the single digits per approach. Granted I've hit the age where approach to lay isn't my overall goal anymore. Hitting it, just to hit it....well case in point, if a woman doesn't have her collective stuff together, I won't waste a lay. Went out with a woman the other week that had daddy issues. She was hot, but I waived off after 2 dates. I won't sink my gear into that.
KC

A corollary of this great post is:

"Choose the right victim"

principle. Not every fish in the sea is meant to be caught. Identifying the targets you will be successful is another skill. Women, like men, have a wide variety of temperaments and they have their preferences, too. There cannot be a single alpha male character that can seduce all women.

I don't think the right way is some sort of approach frenzy. Carefully studying the person you are targeting is another rational approach. Especially at the outset.

 

[Lexington]

Some interesting points here. When I was the biggest chump in the world, I had a 100% success rate. Why? Because I never made any moves until the girl couldn't have made it more obvious that she was interested!

As pointed out, there are lots of different factors that go into determining a "success rate." One guy who has a ton of success in one venue may get totally shut down in another place. There is no standardized measure of this statistic and it is therefore mostly meaningless as a means of comparison/assessment (unless you are comparing only to yourself).

 

[Lexington]

A corollary of this great post is:

"Choose the right victim"

principle. Not every fish in the sea is meant to be caught. Identifying the targets you will be successful is another skill. Women, like men, have a wide variety of temperaments and they have their preferences, too. There cannot be a single alpha male character that can seduce all women.

I don't think the right way is some sort of approach frenzy. Carefully studying the person you are targeting is another rational approach. Especially at the outset.

I'd have to disagree here. In my experience it's virtually impossible to know if a girl would be into you or not without trying. Because there are so many different factors that go into determining success, it's almost impossible to know which girls will bite and which won't. By narrowing yourself to certain types, you may be missing out on a ton of potential opportunities.

There are girls I have gotten with who I thought would have zero interest in me. On the other hand, there were girls I thought who were easily my "type" that shot me down. As no two girls are alike, "types" per se don't exist in reality and are just a construct of our minds.

 

[Mike32ct]

Good discussion here.

I prefer the sniper approach, but it has its limitations.

In other words, I'll scan the bar and use my intuition/gut to see if I get a "feeling" about any of the women being available and my type. I will certainly approach those women first. But if I'm not getting any vibes like that, I will do the random cold approaches (which is more of a shotgun method).

But I agree that you never really know for sure. I've hooked up on cold approaches where I got zero eye contact. It was a literally a roll of the dice. It doesn't happen too often, but it can happen.

I can't stress the importance of the venue enough. Every bar, club, lounge, has a certain "vibe" and attracts certain type of people. Plus some places you really enjoy and feel comfortable there and your game just flows. Other places, you feel really awkward and it kills your game.

A lot of guys aren't really sure which places to go to, so they follow the recommendations of their buddies/mates. They go to this bar because their friend Steve hooked up there twice. That's all well and good, but you need to find a place that WORKS FOR YOU so that you see results.

But back to the topic, yes, close ratios are very interesting. But at this point, I just do the best I can with the time alloted. A lot of nights you can bat zero because you just haven't met the right girl.