Western Rituals, Transitioning From Boy To Man

wjh

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I can't think of a single widely-accepted ritual (like a Barhmitzfah), that teaches boys to become men. I've heard of tribes for example; subjecting boys to painful rituals where he must prove he is worthy of the status of being a Man.

Have there ever been any in the West? Maybe 300 years ago?

Wouldn't it be beneficial for the West to incorporate these types of rituals?

I would imagine that our feminized culture would categorize them as primitive or barbaric.
 

Centaurion

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There are some traditions in the Church, but nothing that involves 'pain'.

The Catholic Church weeded out and absorbed most of the pagan-tribal rituals
 

seth

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It used to be completion of mandatory army service in my country. It's no longer mandatory though.
 

Master Bates

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How important are they really? Most of these rituals are pretty stupid and entirely symbolic, pretty much meaningless outside of the context of a "rite of passage" ritual and only a state of mind in the boy. I agree with LJC- in our society the biggest challenge is actually becoming entirely self-reliant, being able to live on your own and support yourself. That's good enough.

Also, it's a lot easier to for a boy to go through a boy-to-man transformation ritual in some little tribe than it is in our giant, complex society. You can't just send some 13 year old kid on a 300-like hunting ritual and call him a man afterwards when he still has to complete junior high, highschool, college, and all the other things that our society considers integral parts of adolescence.
 

Maxtro

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potato said:
I’ve always thought that losing one’s virginity was one of those rituals that transformed a boy into a man, and a girl into a woman.
Thats kind of what I was thinking about. It would be cool if once a guy turns 18 he becomes an adult. To celebrate that, his parents "give" him a woman, if only for a night but only if he was a virgin.

If things were done this way then there would be no such thing as adult virgins.
 

mrRuckus

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Boy to man isn't one step. There are many in between. No one event should mark it.
 

aliasguy

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If Joseph Campbell was alive, I'd bet he could help us with this.

Maybe Tolle has some cool stuff he could make up, though.

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joekerr31

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there are no more rituals because there is no community.

society doesn't care what your role is anymore. unlike the army society doesn't need 'a few good men' - as a result we no longer recognize the passage from childhood to manhood. i mean, seriously, theres no one out there that cares what you are - heck, be a 300 pound transexual if you want, no one will care. becoming a man means nothing to anyone anymore (with the except perhaps of males who WANT to become men, but can't find anyone to show them how, or what they need to do to feel as though they have entered that phase of life).

i believe the transition into a 'man' has become a personal / individualistic thing.
and it is reached whenever a man discards the persona he had as a teenager and dawns a new 'adult' persona.

so for a lot of men they don't actually feel like a man until they have completed their education, gotten married, and had kids. its then that they feel as though their teenage years were a different life.

for others, they may transition quickly. perhaps they win their first MMA fight and realize that they are now a 'man' and a force to be reckoned with in the world.

point being, there is no longer any set rituals, everyone is left to find their way on their own. as a result it is CRAZY how many adults there are out there that are no more mature than 18 year olds.

i mean, sure they have matured in the sense that they have found a profession, and own some stuff, but beyond that they have about as much common sense at an 18 year old.

they never shed their skin of who they were. the catapillar never came out of the cacoon if you will.

oh well, until someone starts a male movement nothing is ever goign to change. the good thing is though at some point someone will write a book that galvanizes men across north america and suddenly there will be a man's movement - hopefully we fix a lot of what has gone wrong for our kids sake.

but until that happens nothing will really change.
 

aliasguy

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joekerr31 said:
there are no more rituals because there is no community.

society doesn't care what your role is anymore. unlike the army society doesn't need 'a few good men' - as a result we no longer recognize the passage from childhood to manhood. i mean, seriously, theres no one out there that cares what you are - heck, be a 300 pound transexual if you want, no one will care. becoming a man means nothing to anyone anymore (with the except perhaps of males who WANT to become men, but can't find anyone to show them how, or what they need to do to feel as though they have entered that phase of life).

i believe the transition into a 'man' has become a personal / individualistic thing.
and it is reached whenever a man discards the persona he had as a teenager and dawns a new 'adult' persona.

so for a lot of men they don't actually feel like a man until they have completed their education, gotten married, and had kids. its then that they feel as though their teenage years were a different life.

for others, they may transition quickly. perhaps they win their first MMA fight and realize that they are now a 'man' and a force to be reckoned with in the world.

point being, there is no longer any set rituals, everyone is left to find their way on their own. as a result it is CRAZY how many adults there are out there that are no more mature than 18 year olds.

i mean, sure they have matured in the sense that they have found a profession, and own some stuff, but beyond that they have about as much common sense at an 18 year old.

they never shed their skin of who they were. the catapillar never came out of the cacoon if you will.

oh well, until someone starts a male movement nothing is ever goign to change. the good thing is though at some point someone will write a book that galvanizes men across north america and suddenly there will be a man's movement - hopefully we fix a lot of what has gone wrong for our kids sake.

but until that happens nothing will really change.
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Y'know joekerr, you're really right on this....

I'm a professional, with a couple of kids, and until I was COMPLETELY responsible for the whole ball of wax---- money, safety, protection, insurance, education, religious training, moral and ethical training, etc., for my kids, then I was NEVER really a MAN.

You step up only when you MUST, in most cases. I finally did when I got kids.

I echo your call for a "movement" -- not so much as a men's movement to b*tch for "men's rights," but a movement to instruct boys and men about what they are going to NEED TO DO in the world to ensure that their families are taken care of. ---The women won't do it, right?
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joekerr31

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aliasguy said:
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Y'know joekerr, you're really right on this....

I'm a professional, with a couple of kids, and until I was COMPLETELY responsible for the whole ball of wax---- money, safety, protection, insurance, education, religious training, moral and ethical training, etc., for my kids, then I was NEVER really a MAN.

You step up only when you MUST, in most cases. I finally did when I got kids.

I echo your call for a "movement" -- not so much as a men's movement to b*tch for "men's rights," but a movement to instruct boys and men about what they are going to NEED TO DO in the world to ensure that their families are taken care of.
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ya, but you know what sucks. it SUCKS that you had to accomplish all those things before you FELT like a man completely. because really you should have felt like a man when you started the journey towards doing all those things.

in other societies thats what rituals of being a man are about really. they are to say 'your world is not one of childish concerns now. you are now concerned with the world of men." and as such you are identified as a MAN.

which mans the process of being a man easier, as you identify with what you are going through. whereas so many men today are living adult lives with their teenage personas still a part of them.

this was a great topic whoever brought it up, because i do believe that the male psyche NEEDS to let go of childhood and latch on to adulthood - but unfortunately in our society we don't have a common means of doing so.

and all this doesn't even take into account how women are making it so much harder for men to feel like 'men' with feminism saturating society and women cutting men's nuts off at every turn.

this is why i say ignore the world and figure things out on your own because society no longer has anything to offer the individual.
 

STR8UP

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Alright kids, this has been simmering in the back of my mind for a long time now....

We NEED a movement. It might not be extremely well received TODAY, but you can be assured that in the future the pendulum will swing the other direction and it WILL take hold, trust me on this one.

Thats why I said Rollo's book might not be an instant hit, but in time I see it becoming an all time classic.

I have been contemplating writing something myself. Men today NEED guidance. Many seek it, but don't really know where to turn.

Rollo's style seems to be clinical with an emphasis on positive masculinity.

If I were to write something I would concentrate on a broader spectrum of what men need to know in todays world. From women, to money, to power.

Fact is, today the responsibility of becoming a man rests solely on the individual. There's no symbolic gesture, there's no such thing as the society turning a boy into a man. You're either born with it, you live with your situation, or you seek it out.

I would say that most of the guys here have had to seek out their manhood. I would be willing to be that there are millions of other guys out there who would be receptive to this type of information.

I've always wanted to do something with my passion (learning about male/female relations). Maybe I need to get on it.
 

aliasguy

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STR8UP said:
Alright kids, this has been simmering in the back of my mind for a long time now....

We NEED a movement. It might not be extremely well received TODAY, but you can be assured that in the future the pendulum will swing the other direction and it WILL take hold, trust me on this one.

Thats why I said Rollo's book might not be an instant hit, but in time I see it becoming an all time classic.

I have been contemplating writing something myself. Men today NEED guidance. Many seek it, but don't really know where to turn.

Rollo's style seems to be clinical with an emphasis on positive masculinity.

If I were to write something I would concentrate on a broader spectrum of what men need to know in todays world. From women, to money, to power.

Fact is, today the responsibility of becoming a man rests solely on the individual. There's no symbolic gesture, there's no such thing as the society turning a boy into a man. You're either born with it, you live with your situation, or you seek it out.

I would say that most of the guys here have had to seek out their manhood. I would be willing to be that there are millions of other guys out there who would be receptive to this type of information.

I've always wanted to do something with my passion (learning about male/female relations). Maybe I need to get on it.



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You are probably right. I've been thinking a LOT lately about how to talk to my son about all this. And when. A "book" would help.
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TruWarier

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STR8UP said:
Alright kids, this has been simmering in the back of my mind for a long time now....

We NEED a movement. It might not be extremely well received TODAY, but you can be assured that in the future the pendulum will swing the other direction and it WILL take hold, trust me on this one.

Thats why I said Rollo's book might not be an instant hit, but in time I see it becoming an all time classic.

I have been contemplating writing something myself. Men today NEED guidance. Many seek it, but don't really know where to turn.

Rollo's style seems to be clinical with an emphasis on positive masculinity.

If I were to write something I would concentrate on a broader spectrum of what men need to know in todays world. From women, to money, to power.

Fact is, today the responsibility of becoming a man rests solely on the individual. There's no symbolic gesture, there's no such thing as the society turning a boy into a man. You're either born with it, you live with your situation, or you seek it out.

I would say that most of the guys here have had to seek out their manhood. I would be willing to be that there are millions of other guys out there who would be receptive to this type of information.

I've always wanted to do something with my passion (learning about male/female relations). Maybe I need to get on it.
No doubt, there's a definite need (and probably a definite market - albeit a niche market) for such a book. But good luck finding a publisher.

You'd better be prepared to self-publish or distribute it as an e-book. I doubt that your manuscript would be met with much enthusiasm by folks in the publishing industry. And although you may get conservative publishers to show some initial interest in the idea of a book that details "how to be a man" in today's society (especially one that attempts to counter societal wounds inflicted by extreme feminism), they would also probably expect such a book to promote "traditional" ideals of male behavior (i.e. "chivalry," A.K.A.: AFCism).

Publishing is, generally, a female centered (and female dominated) industry. And although there's an emerging literary genre known as "**** lit" (as opposed to "chick lit"), the focus of such books is generally drunkenness/debauchery -- Tucker Max ("I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell") and Maddox are the authors that inspired the genre -- and the supposed indiscriminate horniness of young men. There's also a lot of interest in publishing books about "pick up" and PUA's (especially after the success of Neil Strauss and Mystery). But both of those genres ultimately exist because the women who, basically, run the industry (I'm speaking in vast generalities ... of course there are straight men in the publishing industry, but the industry is very chick centered) think that young guys will only read books if they're about sex and drinking. Any manuscript that contains the kinds of truths that are expressed on this forum would probably cause publishers to get their panties in a bunch.

As for the conservative publishers, it's true that some are putting out books that are critical of the over-sexualization of modern American society, and of today's young women in particular (for example, Carol Platt-Liebau's "Prude" and Wendy Shalit' s "A Return to Modesty"and "Girls Gone Mild"). But these books almost always serve to reinforce the old myth that women aren't/shouldn't be sexual by nature, and that there's nothing more sacred than marriage, etc. And although a lot of these books provide a valuable service by identifying a primary cause of the overall decline of today's young American woman (radical feminism), they usually encourage men to put women on pedestals and to act like total AFC's.

But, yeah, there's a need for books like the one you want to write.

BTW, there are a few books - although VERY few - that address misandry and the devaluation/changing roles of males in modern American society. Harvey Mansfield's "Manliness,", which received lots of attention last year, is well worth reading (and a pretty easy read for such a substantive book). Oh yeah ... and just for the record, I actually really liked "I Hope They Serve Beer In Hell."
 
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