Want to gain some mass while training for distance races

[Scorrere]

I ran xc/track(800, mile, 2 mile) in HS and while I'm not doing XC in college, I'm still going to train for distance races on my own. I've started up again, currently doing an easy mile training program to get some decent speed and endurance back before I train for a 5k XC race in the fall.

Thing is, I want to gain some muscle mass as well. What's the best way to go about this? I definitely want strength, but would like to add a bit of mass purely for aesthetic reasons.

Thing is, I'll be running upwards of 50 miles a week once I get back into the swing of things (eventually even up to 70-80 a week or even more in a few years). Obviously, my cardio will be taken care of (and it's not just straight running, we do intervals, tempo runs, etc.) but what should I do about my strength/mass training?

 

[wolf116]

Nearly impossible to gain muscle with that amount of cardio. Sorry man.
Your body will shed the muscle to become more efficient at running.
Gaining muscle is so hard that you will probably need to focus on it.
Try to join a powerlifting gym if you like strength, it's a great environment.

 

[Scorrere]

Nearly impossible to gain muscle with that amount of cardio. Sorry man.
Your body will shed the muscle to become more efficient at running.
Gaining muscle is so hard that you will probably need to focus on it.
Try to join a powerlifting gym if you like strength, it's a great environment.

This is the answer I was dreading but knew would probably be true.

I guess I'll have to decide whether I want to run or get stronger/look better.

I love running a lot and love competing and would love to see how fast I can get while I'm still young.

However, I also want to look the best I can while I'm young. It's a hard decision: running fast or increasing chances with women.

 

[Kerpal]

You could do more sprint-style running. That way you could be strong/big and fast.

 

[wolf116]

Yeah, I highly recomend getting into sprinting it's great. Join a uni sprint team and they will also help you with a weight training program.

http://www.thebetterweigh.com/images/marathoner_sprinter2.jpg

 

[Scorrere]

Yeah, I highly recomend getting into sprinting it's great. Join a uni sprint team and they will also help you with a weight training program.

http://www.thebetterweigh.com/images/marathoner_sprinter2.jpg

I used to sprint and while I enjoyed it, I still like distance running more. Maybe I should go for middle distance (800-mile), some of those guys are pretty big:

Alan Webb (3:46 mile, American Record Holder):
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/tim_layden/08/21/webb0827/p1_webb3.jpg

(Ignore the over-the-top screaming)

However, I've found that the longer the race distance is, the faster (relatively) I get. I guess it doesn't really matter though seeing as I'll never be elite so maybe I'll just compromise.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

Hmmm....

I stayed at or above 230 lbs running over 50 miles a week (not to mention the swimming and biking.)

First of all, if your just running 5ks then 50 miles/week is overkill.
You can easily get by on 20-25 and be highly competetive.

Second, most distance runners (except elites) think of running in terms of LSDs. That is Long Slow Distances (slow and long, of course, are relative.)

BAD!!!
Train fast. That means run fast. If you're training for 5 or 6 minutes/mile over a 5 to 10 (or more) mile run then you will get muscle. Only do an LSD if you need a recover day.

And trust me...you train to run a 8 miles at you target 5k pace then you will smoke whatever you thought you could do for 5k.

Don't neglect the weight training.

And do not neglect calories and protein.

 

[Scorrere]

Hmmm....

I stayed at or above 230 lbs running over 50 miles a week (not to mention the swimming and biking.)

First of all, if your just running 5ks then 50 miles/week is overkill.
You can easily get by on 20-25 and be highly competetive.

Second, most distance runners (except elites) think of running in terms of LSDs. That is Long Slow Distances (slow and long, of course, are relative.)

BAD!!!
Train fast. That means run fast. If you're training for 5 or 6 minutes/mile over a 5 to 10 (or more) mile run then you will get muscle. Only do an LSD if you need a recover day.

And trust me...you train to run a 8 miles at you target 5k pace then you will smoke whatever you thought you could do for 5k.

Don't neglect the weight training.

And do not neglect calories and protein.

Well, most elites are doing 100+ for 5k and above (though some do like 70-80).

Honestly though, I think it might be more worth it to get lots of quality running workouts in and not do as much endurance stuff.

I know a LOT about training for distance races. There were some great runners who lifted a lot (Seb Coe) and still broke world records, so perhaps I should look at how they trained.

Maybe I should only do one longer run a week? Like on Sundays, go out for 8-10 miles easy and the rest of the days only like 30 mins or a workout? That makes sure I get my endurance covered.

I have actually thought of trying a "Colorodo Experiment" with distance training. Only do a few really hard workouts each week and then really recover the rest of the time by cross-training.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

What are your goals?

Are you looking to run sub 15's on a 5k?
Do you plan on doing more than 5k?

What you say is exactly how I used to train at my peak.

I'd do 8-10 mile daily. But instead of treating these runs as "endurance" runs I'd treat them as speed workouts. That means I'd either do fartleks, high intenstiy intervals, negative splits, etc...
My long run was once every week or so and would be 25-30 miles at a relatively slow pace (8-10 min/mile.)
(and as a result of running these long runs slow I was never a competitive marathoner)

On top of this, though not really as much of my training plan as a job requirement, I'd do a fast 3 miles most mornings.

I'm not recommend you overtrain. In fact I'm saying that as long as you do high quality workouts then you'll see how easy it is to be competitive with much less training.

I'm sure you've heard the term "junk run" or "throw-away run" (samething with weight lifting and reps.) This is the hardest habit to get out of.

Running becomes enjoyable if you just mindlessly go out and run. But when you want to be at all competitive these types of runs are junk runs.

A conscious effort has to be mad every run (except LSD runs) to really push it and workout at maximum intensity.

 

[Scorrere]

What are your goals?

Are you looking to run sub 15's on a 5k?
Do you plan on doing more than 5k?

What you say is exactly how I used to train at my peak.

I'd do 8-10 mile daily. But instead of treating these runs as "endurance" runs I'd treat them as speed workouts. That means I'd either do fartleks, high intenstiy intervals, negative splits, etc...
My long run was once every week or so and would be 25-30 miles at a relatively slow pace (8-10 min/mile.)
(and as a result of running these long runs slow I was never a competitive marathoner)

On top of this, though not really as much of my training plan as a job requirement, I'd do a fast 3 miles most mornings.

I'm not recommend you overtrain. In fact I'm saying that as long as you do high quality workouts then you'll see how easy it is to be competitive with much less training.

I'm sure you've heard the term "junk run" or "throw-away run" (samething with weight lifting and reps.) This is the hardest habit to get out of.

Running becomes enjoyable if you just mindlessly go out and run. But when you want to be at all competitive these types of runs are junk runs.

A conscious effort has to be mad every run (except LSD runs) to really push it and workout at maximum intensity.

I don't have any major goals, I want to compete at various distances (though probably never above half-marathon).

The only problem I can forsee with the style of training you mention is not getting enough rest. I guess what you're saying is do the traditional workout routine like 3xweek hard workout and then really short recovery runs in between? And instead of a long run, go out for a medium distance at a fast past (a little slower than tempo pace)?

Actually, now that I think about it, the type of training you describe sounds like El G's training (sounds like you know quite a bit of runnign so I'm sure you know who he is). He would do lots of aerobic runs still, but at paces close to 3:30 min/km or even faster on some days. I guess you're not saying to go all out on every run but make sure each run is a quality run that will help you get faster instead of just jogging around for an hour.

 

[mikeyb]

You could give triathlon a shot. You will naturally bulk up a little for the swimming portion and as long as you focus on the sprint distance, which seems to be your idea anyway, you won't need to cut down so much as the guys who do the longer distances, especially ironman. If anything, the added strength may give you an edge in the swimming and biking portions.

 

[Scorrere]

You could give triathlon a shot. You will naturally bulk up a little for the swimming portion and as long as you focus on the sprint distance, which seems to be your idea anyway, you won't need to cut down so much as the guys who do the longer distances, especially ironman. If anything, the added strength may give you an edge in the swimming and biking portions.

I do want to try a triathlon at some point in my life, just not right now. Plus I haven't ridden a bike in years so I'd really have to work on that (technique and I know it uses different muscles than running).

 

[EFFORT]

Just put all your efforts into the distance running so you can kick a$$ once your done with that then focus on massing up, don't do them both at the same time.