Want to do a serious routinue but not sure about my leg..

[JohnnyIrish]

I'm currently hitting up the gym a few times a week (I aim for every 3rd day but wait an additional day if my muscles are still sore) doing a full body workout.

The thing is, I've left my physical therapy sessions for restrengthening my left quad as I can do the same exercises at the gym at this point. However while I've gotten it a lot stronger its still not where I want it to be yet (my right quad looks almost twice the left in size).

For example when I hit the gym this past Thursday I did good morning squats (up to 2/12 60lbs total) and then machine leg press (2/12 150lbs, then with just the Left leg 1/12 60lbs, 1/10 45lbs and its pretty much all I can muster from that leg). I then also do hib abductions to help strengthen the supporting leg muscles.

So my questions are..

1) Would you recommend a different leg routine to gain strength in it faster?

2) I also want to switch to the workout recommended here (option B):
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125444

Do you think it would be ok or should I concentrate bringing the leg up to speed with my other leg first?

 

[Dilberto]

Ride a bike.

And, I don't mean the stationary one at the gym either. Get yourself a good road, or mountain bike, with clip pedals. I have built tremendous leg strength and endurance, by going out and riding 20 miles a day.

The benefit is that by your feet being attached to the pedals- you gain more power on each stroke, with ZERO slippage. The bonus is with each upstroke- that quad is getting an impact-free burn....and you can FEEL IT.

 

[JohnnyIrish]

Ride a bike.

And, I don't mean the stationary one at the gym either. Get yourself a good road, or mountain bike, with clip pedals. I have built tremendous leg strength and endurance, by going out and riding 20 miles a day.

The benefit is that by your feet being attached to the pedals- you gain more power on each stroke, with ZERO slippage. The bonus is with each upstroke- that quad is getting an impact-free burn....and you can FEEL IT.

I bet that would increase leg strength. I unfortunately don't own a bike at the moment I could buy one but to be honest I live on the third floor on a condo complex and its winter so I can't see myself riding outside at the moment.

I know they aren't the same but the stationary at the gym wouldn't offer similar benefits?

Also one of the staff at my gym advised using a treadmill, slow speed with an incline to work the quad. I just haven't tried it yet.. not sure how much stress it may put on my leg.. but surely not as much as when I lift with it.

 

[Dilberto]

The gym bike offers similar benefits, but with the real bike's clip pedals- you not only push the pedal downwards, but you pull the pedal up......becasue you're affixed to the pedal. BIG DIFFERENCE. That upward, pulling DIRECTLY targets the quads.

If there is a way to strap(velcro?) your feet to the stationary bike's pedals- then you can emulate the real bike's effect. I imagine you can even isolate one leg at a time. I just cannot stand the stationary bike- because I need that wind in my face, the positive forward motion, and the outdoor scenery.

 

[JohnnyIrish]

The gym bike offers similar benefits, but with the real bike's clip pedals- you not only push the pedal downwards, but you pull the pedal up......becasue you're affixed to the pedal. BIG DIFFERENCE. That upward, pulling DIRECTLY targets the quads.

If there is a way to strap(velcro?) your feet to the stationary bike's pedals- then you can emulate the real bike's effect. I imagine you can even isolate one leg at a time. I just cannot stand the stationary bike- because I need that wind in my face, the positive forward motion, and the outdoor scenery.

Ahh.. now that you mention it, my gym has those straps on the petals so I'll make sure to use them and put them on tight from now on.

Would it be too much (overtraining) to additionally ride the bike every non-lifting day for my leg? (I'm guessing at 20 min or so on the bike for those days upping the resistance over time?)

 

[Dilberto]

That would be perfect, to start with.

 

[JohnnyIrish]

That would be perfect, to start with.

Thanks Dilberto. I appreciate your input, your the only one thus far who is willing to offer advice with regards to me bum leg lol

One last question if you don't mind. I've read that doing aerobic exercise is counter productive toward gaining mass. I think that is if one works out for at least 30 minutes though.. honestly I'm not 100% sure.

If I do this for 20-25 min a day on off lifting days will this effect my lifting gains negatively (catabolic)? If it does or even if it does not, where is the line (or gray area if there is no definitive line per say) that such an aerobic workout has catabolic effects?

 

[Throttle]

the catabolic effects of aerobic exercise are vastly overblown within pretty wide parameters. if anything, getting the blood flowing -- especially on non-lifting days -- is going to be a manifestly good thing. you just have to replace the calories consumed, and watch for signs that you're overtaxing your CNS (central nervous system) -- highly unlikely at 20-25 minutes of anything (hell, even sprinting -- look at these guys who get big while doing HIIT for cardio).

most guys worry too much about overtraining when mixing moderate cardio with lifting. you're much more likely to overtrain by trying to do too much of one or the other and/or trying to ramp up duration/intensity too quickly.

 

[JohnnyIrish]

the catabolic effects of aerobic exercise are vastly overblown within pretty wide parameters. if anything, getting the blood flowing -- especially on non-lifting days -- is going to be a manifestly good thing. you just have to replace the calories consumed, and watch for signs that you're overtaxing your CNS (central nervous system) -- highly unlikely at 20-25 minutes of anything (hell, even sprinting -- look at these guys who get big while doing HIIT for cardio).

most guys worry too much about overtraining when mixing moderate cardio with lifting. you're much more likely to overtrain by trying to do too much of one or the other and/or trying to ramp up duration/intensity too quickly.

Thanks Throttle, great info.
As for overtaxing my CNS.. I assume you mean the borderline puking feeling I've had in the past when pushing too fast, too hard with not enough of a break in between.

I've added the cycling to my routine (cycle on no lifting days). I'll up the minutes to 25 in a week and then up the resistance (weekly I'm thinking). I'm also going to try option B:
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?t=125444

As I see it, the cycling will give me endurance I need as the lifting will give the mass I want.

I think I am on course there.. Also I'll be testing the waters with lighter weights when working my legs. I'll see how my leg handles it.

 

[Throttle]

err... sorry for the lack of reply -- AT&T involuntarily separated me from the internet over the holidays.

The puking feeling is different -- that's a short term stress response. You'll know if you're overtaxing your CNS -- you'll persistently feel like ****, your weights will go down, etc.

Puking is a normal response to HIIT

 

[JohnnyIrish]

err... sorry for the lack of reply -- AT&T involuntarily separated me from the internet over the holidays.

The puking feeling is different -- that's a short term stress response. You'll know if you're overtaxing your CNS -- you'll persistently feel like ****, your weights will go down, etc.

Puking is a normal response to HIIT

In that case welcome back.

So then is overtaxing your CNS is the same thing as over training (as over training has made me feel like shi!t in the past)?

 

[Throttle]

i don't want to equate them -- overtraining happens anytime your training exceeds your recovery ability. for my money, that happens most often to lifters b/c the CNS can't keep up -- esp. with the obsession w/ growth, we tend to forget that muscle growth is only a small part of your body's response to lifting.

the truth is, nobody knows the mechanism, though many have been proposed, mostly hormonal.

 

[mrRuckus]

i don't want to equate them -- overtraining happens anytime your training exceeds your recovery ability

I think that's a bit simplistic definition of that.

You ever play those video games where you're shooting a mounted machine gun that can overheat? So if you keep on blasting the little red bar climbs to the top and if it hits the top the gun stops working for like 5 seconds while it cools down (meanwhile the nazis advance on your position). But if you keep shooting in large bursts but then wait a second or two between large bursts right before it hits the "shut down line" the overheat bar drops much more quickly and you can get back to fully blasting, but you never had to actually let it cool ALL the way down. ( i started playing Crysis yesterday )

If that's the definition of overtraining then I'm overtraining all the time. Otherwise there'd be no need for weeks off or deload weeks because my body was matched perfectly with my rate of recovery.

Overtraining I think is more of a long term systemic problem and almost something you have to TRY to reach and you know you have if your strength actually goes down. I'd think most people would realize they'd need to rest if their strength was going backwards. maybe i give people too much credit though.


--

Ever see any of those Poliquin articles where he has athletes 'overtrain' so much for 2 weeks on purpose that they get depressed and lose like 30% of their strength, lose weight, and still have to keep going to the gym everyday? But then he flips **** on them and has them gorge on food and not lift for a few days and their muscle mass and strength goes flying up a few lbs above what it started?

 

[Quagmire911]

I think that's a bit simplistic definition of that.
Ever see any of those Poliquin articles where he has athletes 'overtrain' so much for 2 weeks on purpose that they get depressed and lose like 30% of their strength, lose weight, and still have to keep going to the gym everyday? But then he flips **** on them and has them gorge on food and not lift for a few days and their muscle mass and strength goes flying up a few lbs above what it started?

Sounds like suprecompensation.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Sounds like suprecompensation.

yep, it's what I told you about a while back. it's a viable strategy IF you know how much 'overtraining' you can get away with before reaching a point where it's impossible to return from despite a deluge of calories (which is the stumbling block for many - hence why I like to add another dozen eggs a day in those periods, you hardly feel them).

 

[Throttle]

I think that's a bit simplistic definition of that.

fair enough, it was meant to be open-ended.

You ever play those video games where you're shooting a mounted machine gun that can overheat?

all the time what do you think i was doing before moseying over here?

But if you keep shooting in large bursts but then wait a second or two between large bursts right before it hits the "shut down line" the overheat bar drops much more quickly and you can get back to fully blasting, but you never had to actually let it cool ALL the way down.

ok--but now we're in the realm of advanced videogaming AND lifting. if somebody comes to me and says "poliquin has me doing crazy ****" i'd reply "he's smarter, bigger & more experienced than me." but if somebody asks me the difference between post-HIIT puking and unintentionally beating the **** out of their own body over the long haul, i try to keep the explanation short and sweet.

If that's the definition of overtraining then I'm overtraining all the time. Otherwise there'd be no need for weeks off or deload weeks because my body was matched perfectly with my rate of recovery.

well, you're overloading your system in the short term (all lifting is some form of overload anyway, right?), but taking time off so you don't overtrain in the long run. and if you don't take those breaks, you've got classic overtraining.

maybe i give people too much credit though.

methinks.

Ever see any of those Poliquin articles where he has athletes 'overtrain' so much for 2 weeks on purpose that they get depressed and lose like 30% of their strength, lose weight, and still have to keep going to the gym everyday? But then he flips **** on them and has them gorge on food and not lift for a few days and their muscle mass and strength goes flying up a few lbs above what it started?

no. i clearly need to read more of his stuff, if only to vicariously enjoy such sadomasochism.