Unplugging the AFC mind...Neurochemical Disposition to Relapse?

[Buddha_Mind]

How does a person truly internalize some of the lessons here? I'm not talking about reading and re-reading; I'm talking about lessons so deeply engrained in the psyche that they are reactionary ... like walking ... like gasping for breath when it is held too long ...

How does a person make the DJ part of themselves nearly involuntary?

This is what I am struggling to understand. And I believe field experience is going to be the only way to get there. Practice.

I find myself becoming "unplugged" at various times...and as Rollo has pointed out in some recent posts, there is some sort of recursive habit of an AFC to fall back into his habits...it's as though the shroud that was lifted is brought right back down -- and maybe even voluntarily. There might be even some self-satisfaction in the AFC bringing the shroud back over his eyes...

Maybe it is reassuring. A sort of "Yes I believe in Hollywood Love Again" as the oxycotin is released into the synaptic gap...and aha...yes she is my "dream girl"..she is "the one"....

There is a tendency it seems for the unplugged AFC mind to revert and run back towards the comfort that he once knew...

How do those unplugged keep themselves unplugged [from the matrix of hollywood love and the land of pedestals]?

Can a man stay unplugged without becoming heartless or darkened [this talk of the Darkened Triad of sexual lust in other threads]?

Can AFC-Relapse be correlated to Personal Neurochemistry?
Is it possible, some people, based upon their unique neurochemistries, are more prone to AFCism than others? Could a habitual AFC-relapse sufferer have some neurochemical disposition to such behavior, due to the various presences of dopamine, vasopressin, oxytocin, testosterone...etc? (the chemicals responsible according to science for pair-bonding, "closeness", and so forth)...

As some people are pre-disposed to alcohol problems, tobacco addiction, etc, is it possible some people are more affected by "love"-based chemicals also? Do AFC-relapse suffers also have issues with other "addictions"?

Perhaps the "jerk" is really a brain that is less receptive to those same neurotransmitters ; or a brain that produces less of them by volume or frequency ... their cold detached character we relate to some social perception when perhaps it really is their "wiring"...

These are thought explorations I've been having here in regards to current themes in some of the ongoing threads. Perhaps the best combination for an AFC addict is a mixture of social conditioning and acculturation + neurochemical makeup...

What do you guys think? Could there be any validity to this?

Upon reflecting back on my ENTIRE female life -- I'm talking all the way back to Kindergarten -- I remember feeling "head over heels" for a girl when I was 7 years old in some ways the same that I do now at age 26 if that makes sense to anyone. Clearly the life context, everything including the maturity of such emotions change...but in some ways they are not so different...that "crush" feeling at age 13 isn't so different at age 33 at the deepest level.

I suppose if the following is true it means a few things: The first is some of us are more chemically inclined towards AFC-oneitis behavior than others -- this could be biological and environmental in causation. The second is that, if you've ever felt "love" before, or "oneitis", that same emotion you can rest assured you will experience again. That is something for those with crushed hearts to keep in mind -- they WILL feel that "love" again at some point.

 

[Die Hard]

Nice line of thinking, dude... It's all in our genes, so we can't change anything about it. Let's give up on this DJ stuff altogether, shall we?

 

[Buddha_Mind]

No, I'm not saying "oh well it's all genes let's give up"...you are misunderstanding my point DieHard.

I'm hypothesizing that a person's disposition towards relationship may have something to do with neurochemical production and biology. Everyone to some degree or another has a "chemically unique" brain in the various levels of neurotransmitter production, etc...

Could there be a "biologic" basis for those who are more prone to AFC behavior? Could this be coupled and exacerbated by culture/upbringing [environment]?

Those who experience a lack of pair bonding or "attachment" to the women they are fvcking may relate to their brain chemistry and their brains ability to produce certain levels of oxycotin, dopamine, etc, etc [which could also be heavily environmentally influenced too]...maybe they experience a different neurochemical response than the AFC [and I'm aware these categories are not so black and white].


**

All this being said, just as a person who was "depressed" [thought patterns that facilitate neurochemical production] can be shifted through cognitive retraining, maybe the same can be said about the hopeless-falling-head-over-heels-in-a-vicious-cycle AFC...

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

You're actually not too far from the mark on a lot of this. I'm sure this will prompt a nature vs. nurture debate because it works up the 'personal responsibility' crowd into a lather, but there are proven biometric, chemically reproducible, behaviors that are prompted by our own biology. Each of these behaviors has a latent survival function that led to our species becoming the apex form of life on the planet.

I just finished reading "A Billion Wicked Thoughts"
http://www.amazon.com/Billion-Wicke...=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1313696081&sr=1-1

While most of the book doesn't directly relate to what you're suggesting, there is a section that postulates that human beings are an amalgam of hardware and software, much like a computer. Our hardware is our bodies and the biochmechanics that drive it - neuropathy, endocrinology, etc., essentially how we're built. The software is our psychology, our mental constructs, and basic input output that (should) works synchronously with our hardware to solve problems, react to environmental conditions and ensure species survival.

All of the habits, addictions, passions, psychosis and many other manifestations of our 'software' is rooted in the latent purpose of ensuring our survival, however that software is conditional and modifiable. So certain aspects of that software which may have previously evolved as a beneficial survivability trait can become a liability under new circumstances.

 

[Stagger Lee]

No, I'm not saying "oh well it's all genes let's give up"...you are misunderstanding my point DieHard.

I'm hypothesizing that a person's disposition towards relationship may have something to do with neurochemical production and biology. Everyone to some degree or another has a "chemically unique" brain in the various levels of neurotransmitter production, etc...

Could there be a "biologic" basis for those who are more prone to AFC behavior? Could this be coupled and exacerbated by culture/upbringing [environment]?

Those who experience a lack of pair bonding or "attachment" to the women they are fvcking may relate to their brain chemistry and their brains ability to produce certain levels of oxycotin, dopamine, etc, etc [which could also be verheavily environmentally influenced too]...maybe they experience a different neurochemical response than the AFC [and I'm aware these categories are not so black and white].


**

All this being said, just as a person who was "depressed" [thought patterns that facilitate neurochemical production] can be shifted through cognitive retraining, maybe the same can be said about the hopeless-falling-head-over-heels-in-a-vicious-cycle AFC...

Of course a lot of it is natural born personality traits. You see this phenomena in other high order mammals even. Some breeds of dogs are friendly and docile and other breeds tend be more vicious and ocassionally maul and kill children and other pets. This is independent of nurture. That's not to say nurture isn't also a part of a person's behavior tendencies. I believe nurture or enviroment is a bigger factor in humans.

Anyway using my dog analogy, I consider easy going ,friendly labs better than rottweilers. But women seem to prefer "rottweilers" for men or at least that is the argument of women loving jerks. The question is, if so why? (I posted this very question on Roissy and he deleted it. Along with several other good posts. That guy is not objective at all and just wants people who kowtow to his narrow viewpoints, but I digress).

 

[Die Hard]

Buddha, I do get your point. Actually, I think there's truth to your point!

Yet, if you want to become better with women, recover from AFC'ness and improve your game....your thoughts are not very helpful.

The very fact that you have these thoughts and even create a thread to discuss them, tells me you're on the wrong path. You asked "how does a person make the DJ part of themselves nearly involuntary?" Well, by being rigorous, determined, dedicated... It's stupid, counterproductive thought processes like the one you talk about in this thread, that you should ban from your mind.

I don't give a fvck if there's any truth to the idea! You know, when you're walking a tightrope 100 metres above the ground, you could start thinking "I might fall down" Sure, there's truth to that thought, the possibility of falling is very realistic. Yet, it's stupid to think about it. Same goes for your thoughts here. Rollo might not need it, he's some big playa who can do wtf he wants to do, so let him read his books about evolutionary bullsh!t. You however, should not occupy your mind with this stuff, it leads you away from your path.

I'm not trying to lecture you here, Buddha... It's just my honest advice, based on my own experiences, so I just present it to you. Erradicating that AFC inside of you and growing into a DJ is not an easy task, so you better put some fvcking effort in. I'd like to think I'm making good progress on that task and it's really because I approach the task fiercely. I'm not playing a game...I'm fighting a war!! (and still the progress doesn't come easy!)

So go ahead with your thought experiment, whatever makes you happy. I say you're being sidetracked by pointless overanalyzing here...

It's just like that thread about "Why do girls like attention?" Who the fvck cares? Go out there and stick your d!ck into their cvnts, instead of asking yourself questions like that! These thoughts are nothing more but an attempt to avoid having to deal with women. It's like when you see a girl and want to approach her...thoughts start popping up "What should I say? Will she like me? What if she rejects me?" Blah, blah, blah. The thoughts only hold you back and prevent you from dealing with the girls... Overthinking and overanalyzing is counterproductive, it's often a sign of fear and it's often the only thing that stands between you and action. Sure, theory is very important in the game! Yet, the theory should serve a practical purpose. So what practical purpose does your idea serve? Are you trying to find out how to modify your genes or how to create some chemical drug so you can turn yourself into a DJ?! No...so your thoughts here are useless and counterproductive. You're here to become better with women, destroy your inner AFC, become a DJ. So go and do that, instead of fvcking around with these stupid ideas here...

 

[Jitterbug]

I don't know all this psychology science stuff, but try lifting heavy weights regularly to get the emo out of you. A strong mind & heart need a strong body. To quote one of my most favourite essays, Iron by Henry Rollin: "Yukio Mishima said that he could not entertain the idea of romance if he was not strong. Romance is such a strong and overwhelming passion, a weakened body cannot sustain it for long."

I started lifting weights after an emotional breakup like yours, and haven't looked back since.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Overthinking and overanalyzing is counterproductive, it's often a sign of fear and it's often the only thing that stands between you and action.

I agree 100%.

Introspection is an illusion.

Believing you understand your motivations and desires, your likes and dislikes, is called the Introspection Illusion.

You believe you know yourself, and why you are they way you are. You believe this knowledge tells you how you will act in all future situations. Research shows otherwise.

Time after time, experiments show introspection is not the act of tapping into your innermost mental constructs, but is instead a fabrication, a construction, a fiction.

You look at what you did, or how you felt, and you make up some sort of explanation which you can reasonably believe. If you have to tell others, you make up an explanation they can believe too.

When it comes to explaining why you like the things you like, you are not so smart, and the very act of having to explain yourself can change your attitudes.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Guys, I don't agree with all of these responses -- there is value in "understanding" things.

Why spend any more time on science, all of this fact-gathering-garbage that keeps me from ACTION!

Look, if we "looked into" half of the things we do in our world before we acted, we'd probably have a lot less problems.

And I don't think introspection is worthless...all great minds advocate looking within yourself and understanding your inner most desires and passions...introspection has led my life towards immense levels of improvement...

Understanding and introspection are the tools by which action should be utilized. Otherwise, what direction are you going in?

/EDIT/
And really what I'm saying here is the next time you feel lovey-dovey emotions for a woman that falls in your lap, keep in mind the neurochemical processes that are occurring...if you didn't take time to "understand", you might just perceive this emotional state as some beacon of truth from god himself...understanding psychology and biology are not worthless endeavors of "thinking too much"...this is the way in which human knowledge is gathered.

*I do agree* that over-analyzing and over-thinking (which I can definitely be guilty of, being an intellectual) can be detrimental. There is a balance between rumination and action -- they must work together -- too much of the former breeds a mental "spinning of the wheels" so to speak, and too much of the latter can be wonton recklessness.

I do agree that we can convince ourselves of "realities" -- hell ask any man whose ever been married if he'd convinced himself of one thing or another. But come on guys, to say introspection is a worthless endeavor I think can lead to a certain level of ignorance of your own self -- you should be connected to your own thoughts and internal inklings. Ask any great writer or artist or CEO -- I am almost certain they regularly look "within" to better understand themselves and formulate their motives which become their action.

 

[Colossus]

It's like when you see a girl and want to approach her...thoughts start popping up "What should I say? Will she like me? What if she rejects me?" Blah, blah, blah. The thoughts only hold you back and prevent you from dealing with the girls... Overthinking and overanalyzing is counterproductive, it's often a sign of fear and it's often the only thing that stands between you and action. Sure, theory is very important in the game! Yet, the theory should serve a practical purpose. So what practical purpose does your idea serve? Are you trying to find out how to modify your genes or how to create some chemical drug so you can turn yourself into a DJ?! No...so your thoughts here are useless and counterproductive. You're here to become better with women, destroy your inner AFC, become a DJ. So go and do that, instead of fvcking around with these stupid ideas here...

Props and I fully concur.

Buddah, ever hear of 'paralysis by analysis'? Well, it's taken me almost 30 years to realize how much the wheels in my head have held me back from experiencing in life. I used to come here and think and theorize and post my opinons about all kinds of sh!t for HOURS. But you know what, none of that wheel-spinning I did EVER made me any better with women. If anything, it made me WORSE, because before any real interaction could happen I would analyze and speculate the fvck out of it!!

Perfect timing for an example on the power of ACTION:

Right now I work in an Emergency Department. Yesterday I was seeing an elderly man who fell off a curb and hurt his neck. He was brought in by his granddaughter, a cute 22 year-old brunette. So I was getting a history from this guy and and I noticed the girl kinda checking me out and laughing at my jokes. So I strike up some small talk with her over the next hour or so and thought to myself "you know what, I'm gonna get this girl's number. I'm a grown-a$$ man and I should be able to do this without hesitation." I have a gf. I'm not looking to cheat on her or spin plates behind her back. I just wanted to DO IT for my own sake. So as they were leaving I said "mind if I give you a call sometime"? She smiled sheepishly and hesitated for a moment, then mumbled she had a boyfriend. So I just smiled, told the old guy to take care and went on to the next patient.

Yeah, I got shot down, but you know what? I felt AWESOME just for doing it. Not one ounce of regret. Maybe my delivery could have been better, maybe she really did have a bf, who knows. The bottom line is I KNOW I would have regretted it if I dithered and let her leave. Might not sound like a big deal, but I've never really been a great number-closer, and believe-you-me I will step up to the plate again.

 

[Boilermaker]

I agree 100%.

Introspection is an illusion.

This is a fantastic page, and post!

Thanks for sharing it. Reminded me of a recent book I read. (Stuart Sutherland Irrationality).

 

[Jitterbug]

Introspection is good, but being an intellectual, you'd be prone to prolonged navel gazing. Know your weakness and keep it under control.

 

[Die Hard]

And really what I'm saying here is the next time you feel lovey-dovey emotions for a woman that falls in your lap, keep in mind the neurochemical processes that are occurring...

Hmm, I might've missed the point in your OP. If the purpose of your OP was to provide an idea that helps rationalizing and controlling feelings of "love" and "oneitis", then there is definitely value to it.

 

[Buddha_Mind]

Hmm, I might've missed the point in your OP. If the purpose of your OP was to provide an idea that helps rationalizing and controlling feelings of "love" and "oneitis", then there is definitely value to it.

YES! ^^THIS^^ was my point the whole time.

Feelings of "oneitis", IMO, likely have a strong neurochemical basis -- and this might vary based upon the individual.

RE: INTROSPECTION/EXAMINATION:
I'm not trying to flame people, but in dear god's name how could you all be a part of this forum -- whose primary function is theoretical discourse on male-female relations and sexual dynamics -- be OPPOSED to introspection and examination?

That makes entirely no sense to me.

 

[SgtSplacker]

Stop worrying about being able to do it, and just start doing it bud. At first it will seem a little awkward but you'll get used to it.