Turning 30 in a month. My conclusions and why I will be leaving the US.

[DreamAgain]

I've posted here in the past, mostly on my situation with oneitis which now I understand more clearly. I want to explain some things and why I'll be leaving the United States soon for Eastern Europe.

Simply put, I grew up in the US but came from an immigrant family, so we were poor. When you are poor in the US, life is much worse than the so called "third world" countries of EE. You go to ghetto schools. You feel worthless, and can't connect with people normally. You are embarrassed about where you live, what car your parents drive. I will actually write a book about all of this soon as there are so many interesting details about this topic, but that's a discussion for another day. Assimilation with other kids, who are successful in school and hence come from successful families (usually) implies that they come from a much better financial position, and thus interacting with them is difficult.

I was able to retain the language that I'm bilingual with fluently, and so making the transition for me will not be so hard. I'll be able to pass as a local. But, you may ask, why am I leaving the US, where I make a good salary, where I was born and raised, to make such a drastic move?

I've dug myself out of the poverty my immigrant parents had to endure, which was not easy and took many sacrifices, so why would I throw that away now?

Simply put, I do not believe the statistics are on my side to find a wife here that fits my criteria. I live in a major metro area and have visited all the big cities, New York, LA, etc. Girls are too corrupted nowadays by social media and hollywood, not to mention the general weight issues and finding the physical type that I like (tall and slim, while not built like a damn refrigerator but still retaining womanly curves and features). Perhaps I've seen this type most in the Netherlands and in Sweden. Anyway, about myself there, is nothing necessarily wrong with me, I am educated and in good shape, I would say maybe slightly above average looks wise but certainly nothing special. I have always relied on wit and good verbal rapport with women to be successful, but alas everything was transient.

I want a girl who has a natural positivity about her as well, a youthful exuberance and one I can converse with about a diversity of topics.

There is also something about the US, the general loss of unique culture, that I believe is detrimental. I do not think the homogenization of thoughts and ideas is a good thing, I believe cultural identity, language preservation, as well as religion (to some extent) are important in long lasting relationships and strong family bonds.

The greatest plus of living in the US, the ability to make money, will remain a strong reason why it will thrive for a good while longer. But many other factors have corrupted society too immesearuably. Technological addiction, car centric isolationism, dilution of education, out of control consumerism, I can go one but many of these things are already self evident.

The best girls are taken up early, up until college, which I could not do because I grew up poor, and I had to study too hard in college to take dating seriously. I also attended a state school on a scholarship instead of a good private university where I would have been more likely to find the type of girl I wanted to marry. Likely one of the Ivy League schools, which I was close to attending but could not because of finances.

Will I strike out on what I am looking for in my EE country? Very much possible, and I'm mentally prepared to accept that outcome. But I feel now is the time to take a leap of faith and see what will happen. Maybe in a year or two I'll post my conclusions.

If you are struggling in the US, I advise you to re-examine why that is, maybe not for the same reasons that mine were. But the clock is ticking, do not wait for things to change on their own, I recommend you take action while you still can.

 

[Jack22]

Don't feel too much pity for yourself, your circumstances were difficult but that's just part of being a man. Other than that good luck and we wish you the best.

 

[SW15]

@DreamAgain -- I am impressed that you will be able to successfully emigrate from the United States to Eastern Europe. I looked into expatriation in my mid-20s. Unfortunately, this was 2007-08 and the big economic downturn ended that reality. I also could not navigate work authorization and getting a job. I was looking in South America more than Eastern Europe.

Eastern Europe has some good women. Good luck!

 

[DreamAgain]

@SW15 it is possible for you as well, you will need to likely commit to acquiring some IT sector skills which I think anyone can do with enough effort. And of course fluency in the local language so you can assimilate better.

Of course, one of the biggest questions will be, even if you meet the right girl, how can you be sure she is with you because of you and not because of your western passport, your savings, etc.

This is why meeting in up through college is the best. All of that is out the window. I would say up until age 25 everything is still relatively pure, one or two years into your first job things are still innocent.

It is what it is though, I refuse to go down without a fight.

 

[DreamAgain]

It's kind of funny, before you acquire money being poor is very much a dealbreaker, but once you get some you have to worry about intentions. This is why finding someone similar to you is so important, in terms of IQ, physical attractiveness, age, values, education, etc. You can much more easily rule out nefarious intentions.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

@DreamAgain
This sounds a bit like grass is greener thinking. Once you get settled in an EE country it'll have it's own challenges. Moving rarely solves personal issues, but I'll assume you've thought this out more than what you've written here.

There is no perfect nation without corruption or social issues. To me it makes more sense to stay and be a part of the solution, rather than run off to another land to plunder, which comes off as a parasitic relationship with society since you're so focused on what you can take rather than what you can provide.

There is no shortage of single smart fit women in the states, and social media has broken more class walls down than it's created imo.

To me there is no ticking clock to fear because I don't sense my purpose is a wife or family. I sense a duty to move mountains, lead, and inspire others, a family is quite easy by comparison. A wife and family are secondary, and I have no issue facing death alone. Ironically many women find this quality attractive.

You may sense your duty is different, and if you feel strong conviction then more power to you. You can always move back

 

[SW15]

@SW15 it is possible for you as well, you will need to likely commit to acquiring some IT sector skills which I think anyone can do with enough effort. And of course fluency in the local language so you can assimilate better.

I was looking into South America due to my Spanish fluency. At the time, I was considering a couple of the more stable South American nations. Now, I perceive I'm too old to do the South America emigration thing.

I have never worked in an IT capacity. IT is part of the T in STEM. STEM workers often have a difficult time in Western nations attracting women.

This is why meeting in up through college is the best. All of that is out the window. I would say up until age 25 everything is still relatively pure, one or two years into your first job things are still innocent.

I can relate to the mindset that would lead you to say this. I don't fully agree with it. Realize that most college relationships will end. If you attend college from ages 18-22, it is the most common outcome that your college era relationship will fall apart by the time you are 25-30. Taking a college era relationship even 3-8 years beyond your college graduation is an achievement. I'm 38 now and more than 16 years have elapsed since my graduation. I've looked at what many of the hottest women in my era of college are doing on social media now. Most who have gotten married and have kids did that with a man who wasn't their college boyfriend. Some of those women were in the top sororities on my campus. That was big fucckin' female status then.

Moving rarely solves personal issues

I agree with this big time. I'm more prone to say that moving rarely solves dating issues. The only times where moving might solve a dating issue is if you're moving from a less populated area (under 100-150k) to a more populated area due to lack of choice. Moving from one highly populated area to another will rarely solve a dating issue, even if the move to an area that most would consider an upgrade.

 

[DreamAgain]

@EyeOnThePrize what you say is certainly true, but I will say in response:

1) I do not view it as plundering as I am going to move to a place where I have familial heritage, language fluency, and pre-existing cultural assimilation. Rather, it is a re-acclamation of what is a part of myself, and a part of your own heritage at some point as well, as we are almost all immigrants from somewhere in the US.

2) Further, my intent is not to simply meet a woman there and convince her to move back to the usa. I am perfectly content, if everything aligns in life financially and career wise, to stay and raise my family in that country.

3) The country in question has many problems of course, is corrupt in many ways, and does not have nearly the economic opportunities that I have in the USA. So I am well aware of the drawbacks and this will make any longterm planning difficult, but I'm assuming the first step (of even finding a woman I want to marry and start a family with) as the focus, not the political and economic situation I will choose to make my home.

4) I have found that focusing on myself and my career, my personal growth, etc., is not the best way to meet women. I will have to do things outside of that and make an active effort to be in situations around women, single women that are younger than I am by 5 years+, and there is no shame in my opinion of making that a priority. I do not think dating apps are a good way to meet women so in person activities, fitness clubs, arts, things of that nature, will be one of the broader avenues Ill explore. Maybe finding classes at the local university in some humanities oriented subjects, rather than the technical nature of my degree and occupation which is 99% men.

Further, my experience has been that there is in fact a big shortage of the woman of my physical preference and overall characteristics here in the US, that are single. In general, there is not a shortage, but they are simply not available to date from what I have noticed. Also, in general, from my visiting of several European countries beyond EE, and around EE, the women are simply much slimmer and more feminine as an average than in the US. To me, fat/chubby women are a dealbreaker unfortunately.

 

[DreamAgain]

If you can arbitrage your US salary while living overseas, it's a no-brainer.

The only danger I see is that your laundry list of requirements for women is too high. Women are better overseas, but what you're describing is not typical of women anywhere.

Yes certainly I'll have to compromise, I myself am not perfect at all so this is mostly idealized that I described.

 

[DreamAgain]

@SW15 Well I guess my sample size isn't large enough to say that college age relationships mostly fizzle out or succeed, I don't know the details of how those women found their eventual spouses but it was likely through an extended social circle either through their college or high school peers, or perhaps hometown friends where they grew up.

That is to say, the most organic path to finding your eventual spouse.

For women though, we all know this path is much easier (generally speaking).

 

[Bokanovsky]

While I agree with many things in your post, you've got a few things wrong. First, your chances of finding your "dream wife" would not have been better at an Ivy League school. Quite the opposite, in fact. Women who are attend Ivy League schools tend be less attractive than average, more feminist than average, and more entitled than average.

Second, the "corruption" that you speak of goes hand in hand with economic success. Money corrupts people, and this is especially true of women. You mentioned that you were most attracted to Scandinavian and Dutch women but you are not considering moving to those places. That's probably a smart move, as ththoseis are rich counties and I doubt that the quality of women is any better there. Eastern Europe is still, by and large, the "second world". High levels of education but lower levels of per capita wealth compared to Western Europe and North America. As a result, their women are less spoiled. If/when Eastern Europe catches on economically, their women will become sh!t too. You could write the book on the social and economic forces that produce an inverse relationship between wealth and the quality of women but the fact that the relationship exists is an undeniable fact. Simply put, women from rich counties suck.

Third, you will soon discover that not everything in life revolves around women. Many of the things you take for granted living in the U.S. will not be there in Eastern Europe.

 

[DreamAgain]

While I agree with many things in your post, you've got a few things wrong. First, your chances of finding your "dream wife" would not have been better at an Ivy League school. Quite the opposite, in fact. Women who are attend Ivy League schools tend be less attractive than average, more feminist than average, and more entitled than average.

Second, the "corruption" that you speak of goes hand in hand with economic success. Money corrupts people, and this is especially true of women. You mentioned that you were most attracted to Scandinavian and Dutch women but you are not considering moving to those places. That's probably a smart move, as ththoseis are rich counties and I doubt that the quality of women is any better there. Eastern Europe is still, by and large, the "second world". High levels of education but lower levels of per capita wealth compared to Western Europe and North America. As a result, their women are less spoiled. If/when Eastern Europe catches on economically, their women will become sh!t too. You could write the book on the social and economic forces that produce an inverse relationship between wealth and the quality of women but the fact that the relationship exists is an undeniable fact. Simply put, women from rich counties suck.

Third, you will soon discover that not everything in life revolves around women. Many of the things you take for granted living in the U.S. will not be there in Eastern Europe.

As I haven't attended these schools I can't say with any certainty what I think is true. Actually, it's more likely I'm wrong like you said.

However, the girls that I know who attended those schools who I was interested in from high school did not attend "insert big state U here". But again, my sample size is super small so my opinions are pretty moot there.

I would not be opposed to moving to one of the major cities in the Netherlands or around Scandinavia, it is just not plan A as I would have to learn the language from scratch, and have no common cultural or familial history with those places.

While that is true, I believe the quality of women is still higher than a lot of what the USA has to offer.

And lastly, of course life does not revolve around women. But I am of the opinion that having a wife that you love and a family with her is one of the greater joys in life you can experience. I have done the hooking up and transient relationships for a while and it ultimately left me feeling empty inside. I do not think I am blue pill because I also learned a lot about true female nature through these experiences, and also my own rather pitiful oneitis situations from when I was younger. So overall, I think it is a worthwhile endeavor to try.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

4) I have found that focusing on myself and my career, my personal growth, etc., is not the best way to meet women. I will have to do things outside of that and make an active effort to be in situations around women, single women that are younger than I am by 5 years+, and there is no shame in my opinion of making that a priority. I do not think dating apps are a good way to meet women so in person activities, fitness clubs, arts, things of that nature, will be one of the broader avenues Ill explore. Maybe finding classes at the local university in some humanities oriented subjects, rather than the technical nature of my degree and occupation which is 99% men.

I may take a yoga class, dance class, or gymnastics class to network with more women (these classes are usually overflowing with fit single women), but my primary focus is learning a new skill, the women are simply a nice bonus. I think these sorts of clubs/classes will have a lot of women in most countries, it sounds like maybe you haven't tried many in the states?

You're right that america tends to have fatter women, but the sorts of active activities I've mentioned tend to be a good filter. From going to one class consistently I've met many highly educated single women that take care of themselves, like finds like. From multiple classes I have an abundance of options and feel no rush whatsoever, whereas with you I sense a rush.

Making finding a woman to marry your primary goal has a high chance of you harboring resentment when the woman you settle for doesn't match up to your expectations. Doesn't matter if you stay or go, I view that mindset as coming from lack and somewhat codependent or parasitic. It's of course a balancing act, but a wife and family aren't difficult to procure, and thus can easily be a distraction from something you're truly meant for. To want marriage before you've even met the woman seems backwards to me, what is the reason to marry for the sake of marriage? If it's to avoid feelings of loneliness I again see that as coming from lack and seeking a crutch. By all means please prove me wrong and check back in once you've married.

 

[MatureDJ]

I've posted here in the past, mostly on my situation with oneitis which now I understand more clearly. I want to explain some things and why I'll be leaving the United States soon for Eastern Europe.

Simply put, I grew up in the US but came from an immigrant family, so we were poor. When you are poor in the US, life is much worse than the so called "third world" countries of EE. You go to ghetto schools. You feel worthless, and can't connect with people normally. You are embarrassed about where you live, what car your parents drive. I will actually write a book about all of this soon as there are so many interesting details about this topic, but that's a discussion for another day. Assimilation with other kids, who are successful in school and hence come from successful families (usually) implies that they come from a much better financial position, and thus interacting with them is difficult.

I was able to retain the language that I'm bilingual with fluently, and so making the transition for me will not be so hard. I'll be able to pass as a local. But, you may ask, why am I leaving the US, where I make a good salary, where I was born and raised, to make such a drastic move?

I've dug myself out of the poverty my immigrant parents had to endure, which was not easy and took many sacrifices, so why would I throw that away now?

Simply put, I do not believe the statistics are on my side to find a wife here that fits my criteria. I live in a major metro area and have visited all the big cities, New York, LA, etc. Girls are too corrupted nowadays by social media and hollywood, not to mention the general weight issues and finding the physical type that I like (tall and slim, while not built like a damn refrigerator but still retaining womanly curves and features). Perhaps I've seen this type most in the Netherlands and in Sweden. Anyway, about myself there, is nothing necessarily wrong with me, I am educated and in good shape, I would say maybe slightly above average looks wise but certainly nothing special. I have always relied on wit and good verbal rapport with women to be successful, but alas everything was transient.

I want a girl who has a natural positivity about her as well, a youthful exuberance and one I can converse with about a diversity of topics.

There is also something about the US, the general loss of unique culture, that I believe is detrimental. I do not think the homogenization of thoughts and ideas is a good thing, I believe cultural identity, language preservation, as well as religion (to some extent) are important in long lasting relationships and strong family bonds.

The greatest plus of living in the US, the ability to make money, will remain a strong reason why it will thrive for a good while longer. But many other factors have corrupted society too immesearuably. Technological addiction, car centric isolationism, dilution of education, out of control consumerism, I can go one but many of these things are already self evident.

The best girls are taken up early, up until college, which I could not do because I grew up poor, and I had to study too hard in college to take dating seriously. I also attended a state school on a scholarship instead of a good private university where I would have been more likely to find the type of girl I wanted to marry. Likely one of the Ivy League schools, which I was close to attending but could not because of finances.

Will I strike out on what I am looking for in my EE country? Very much possible, and I'm mentally prepared to accept that outcome. But I feel now is the time to take a leap of faith and see what will happen. Maybe in a year or two I'll post my conclusions.

If you are struggling in the US, I advise you to re-examine why that is, maybe not for the same reasons that mine were. But the clock is ticking, do not wait for things to change on their own, I recommend you take action while you still can.

I have no EE heritage (my heritage is WE), and I'd thrown in the towel on American chicks for quite some time, and had given up decent earnings to GeoMax in EE. Once a bare minimum of finances has been reached, the question becomes whether to continue to hustle to have more money and still get no poontang in the USA, vs. retiring very early and being in the game abroad. It was a fairly easy decision to do, although I've always wanted to retire very early.

As for you "running out of time", unless you age poorly, you will not have a problem at all.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

I have done the hooking up and transient relationships for a while and it ultimately left me feeling empty inside.

This is the smoking gun in my eyes, you're seeking inner fulfillment from a woman, which will place immense pressure on her and is at it's very core the definition of codependency. It's much better to find ways to fill that void independently, to the point that you're overflowing with joy and seek to share and give, to seek interdependence.

 

[MatureDJ]

I was looking into South America due to my Spanish fluency. At the time, I was considering a couple of the more stable South American nations. Now, I perceive I'm too old to do the South America emigration thing.

If I had learned Spanish in high school instead of French, I think I would have seriously looked into GeoMaxxing in Argentina; amazingly, next-door Chile is almost as bad as Canada for chicks.

 

[DreamAgain]

I may take a yoga class, dance class, or gymnastics class to network with more women (these classes are usually overflowing with fit single women), but my primary focus is learning a new skill, the women are simply a nice bonus. I think these sorts of clubs/classes will have a lot of women in most countries, it sounds like maybe you haven't tried many in the states?

You're right that america tends to have fatter women, but the sorts of active activities I've mentioned tend to be a good filter. From going to one class consistently I've met many highly educated single women that take care of themselves, like finds like. From multiple classes I have an abundance of options and feel no rush whatsoever, whereas with you I sense a rush.

Making finding a woman to marry your primary goal has a high chance of you harboring resentment when the woman you settle for doesn't match up to your expectations. Doesn't matter if you stay or go, I view that mindset as coming from lack and somewhat codependent or parasitic. It's of course a balancing act, but a wife and family aren't difficult to procure, and thus can easily be a distraction from something you're truly meant for. To want marriage before you've even met the woman seems backwards to me, what is the reason to marry for the sake of marriage? If it's to avoid feelings of loneliness I again see that as coming from lack and seeking a crutch. By all means please prove me wrong and check back in once you've married.

I've attended yoga classes and it could have been my particular class just didn't have any I was interested in, perhaps I should have tried a few different places.

I'm happy though you feel like you have enough options at your fingertips, certainly if I felt that way I wouldn't be making this move .

Like I said in my original post, I am not at all outcome dependent here. I have been single for many years and am content with my own company, and do not have a marriage at all costs mindset at all.

If I do not meet a woman I am interested in, I simply will not proceed further and will re-evaluate my next steps. My opinion however is that the odds are more in my favor of finding one there than in the major US cities that I have visited (New York, LA, Dallas, SF Bay Area, etc).

And I would further just disagree that I think procuring a wife and family is a very difficult thing to do. Red flags are becoming more and more widespread as the influence of social media, technology in general, and dilution of education have continued to permeate throughout society. These effects are also seen in EE countries as these forces simply cannot be suppressed. However, I do think they are still at a lesser level there.

 

[BadBoy89]

The best girls are taken up early, up until college, which I could not do because I grew up poor, and I had to study too hard in college to
take dating seriously.

That’s the thing. This site keep saying “improve yourself”. Not that a man shouldn’t, but by the time he has improved himself the hot girls are already f*cked 20 ways from Sunday by the genetically blessed.

That’s why so many men are angry these days. It’s like ‘I’m working this hard to get someone’s leftovers?” But hey, that’s how the rich keep the power. Give young women power to sleep around, insult and put down men who have to trouble getting sex.

Divide and conquer baby!

 

[DreamAgain]

This is the smoking gun in my eyes, you're seeking inner fulfillment from a woman, which will place immense pressure on her and is at it's very core the definition of codependency. It's much better to find ways to fill that void independently, to the point that you're overflowing with joy and seek to share and give, to seek interdependence.

My life is certainly not bad by any objective measure, but it depends on what makes a person happy. I am not financially wanting, my health is good, I have interesting hobbies and feel generally fulfilled. I think a man's life is enhanced significantly by having the right wife and having a family with her. The love for one's wife and children are a unique experience in life that no mastery of a hobby, or acquisition of knowledge can necessarily replace.

But there is a difference with having an acceptance that this is out of one's control necessarily, and accepting it and living life as you would, and not becoming desperate by it, which I am not.

So, I do not feel "beta" or co-dependent necessarily by wanting this, I see it as a natural thing that I would hope any man would want.

 

[DreamAgain]

That’s the thing. This site keep saying “improve yourself”. Not that a man shouldn’t, but by the time he has improved himself the hot girls are already f*cked 20 ways from Sunday by the genetically blessed.

That’s why so many men are angry these days. It’s like ‘I’m working this hard to get someone’s leftovers?” But hey, that’s how the rich keep the power. Give young women power to sleep around, insult and put down men who have to trouble getting sex.

Divide and conquer baby!

Yes, that is a big problem.

One of the only things that can really stop this is religion. I am not saying go find your wife in church, as I do not equate participation in church with having religious values. But it is certainly something to consider when screening women.