Trying to understand fat loss while building muscle

[Create Reality]

Im still trying to understand this whole muscle building thing. Is this the way to do it?

-Work out with heavy weights.
-Bring in enough protein to feed the muscles but maintain a calorie defecit to lose fat? (can you build muscle at the same time as losing fat?)

Is there any truth to this?

 

[tj]

Originally posted by Create Reality
Im still trying to understand this whole muscle building thing. Is this the way to do it?

-Work out with heavy weights.
-Bring in enough protein to feed the muscles but maintain a calorie defecit to lose fat? (can you build muscle at the same time as losing fat?)

Is there any truth to this?

It is all about communication my friend...communication.

 

[Ricky]

Yes I think so. They say it is extremely tough though.

You have to take in enough extra calories to feed the muscle, but not anymore to go into storage.

It's like taking in enough for repair but not enough to spill over to the fat reserves.

What is better is to do bulking and cutting cycles but not as extreme as they suggest.

Most bulking cycles have someone eating way to many calories. They get grossly fat and then the cutting cycle doesn't do enough.

 

[Create Reality]

Would a plan like this require cardio to lose the fat, or would the lifting burn enough?

 

[Heizen]

Originally posted by Ricky
Yes I think so. They say it is extremely tough though.

You have to take in enough extra calories to feed the muscle, but not anymore to go into storage.

It's like taking in enough for repair but not enough to spill over to the fat reserves.

What is better is to do bulking and cutting cycles but not as extreme as they suggest.

Most bulking cycles have someone eating way to many calories. They get grossly fat and then the cutting cycle doesn't do enough.

What you are describing is a clean bulk. Not losing fat and cutting at the same time, which I understand is the only way to bulk. You cannot bulk and cut at the same time. The reason you eat the protein is so your body doesn't eat your muscle while you are losing fat.

Warboss says otherwise. He still hasn't explained how HE does it or his reasoning behind it when I asked him, so I am interested in seeing his reply to this thread.

Unless he has definitive proof otherwise, a surplus (or just the right amount of calories) is needed to bulk, and a deficit to cut.

 

[Create Reality]

Originally posted by Heizen
What you are describing is a clean bulk. Not losing fat and cutting at the same time, which I understand is the only way to bulk. You cannot bulk and cut at the same time. The reason you eat the protein is so your body doesn't eat your muscle while you are losing fat.

But what is it to prevent the muscle from growing while it has enough protein and there is a calorie defecit which does not feed fat reserves? Maybe I am not clear but muscles need glucose and protein to grow large, and what Im saying is if enough of these two things is present during the calorie defecit, the muscles will still take them in and benefit, right?

 

[MrLuvr]

I am trying to figure out the same thing myself.

If you are working out and getting maintainence calories or are in a calorie deficit, BUT you are getting enough protein to build your muscles AND you are keeping carbs to a minimum and only eating complex carbs to ensure a slow release of energy then, would your body:

a) use the fat stores as energy but use the protein to build muscle.

OR

b) would it cause the body to go after muscle and you would basically end up in the same spot.

or is it a combination of the above.

 

[semag]

ok... here's what warboss is goin to say, and if you read the right stuff, you can find some things that confirm this effect.

Eat your meals as pro/carb or pro/fat only... whY? because carbs spike your insulin... actually sugars spike your insuling, but as your insulin is spiked you're gonna be absorbing more stuff that you put in your body, including glucose (that will be stored as adipose/fat) and fat itself. thus, if you take in protein/carb, then your body won't retain as much glucose as fat because you're going to be using it as energy, and if you take in protein/fat your body won't have an insulin spike to absorb that fat you eat.

Now... if you eat at the right TIMES... then you're going to be able to put on muscle, get stronger, while losing bodyfat, although to a point, and slowly. Your bodyfat will go down, but a lot of it is in carbs, and glucose, and keeping those stores to a minimum. You want to try as hard as you can to keep your insulin spikes to a minimum when you have leftover sugar in your body, as well as leftover fat.

Time is the key. Cut your carbs off early in the evening, this is going to assure that you have less glucose and glycogen in your body throughout the night and when you wake up to do some low impact cardio. Then you bust like 45 mins to 60 mins of low impact cardio and that'll help you strip some of that fat that's sitting on your frame. The nyou feed your body through the day... pro/carb or protein/fat, and make sure the carbs are pretty complex.

I'd say watch your carbs the most, because carb sensative people (like me, an endo) are the people that put on weight really easy, and it's the carbs that will do it. I don't take in as many carbs in a day as warboss, but I've found the same phenomenon that's been described if I can really get my diet dialed in.

Hope that made some sense.. .I'm a little tipsy, lol.

 

[MercutioTHEGREAT]

Okay dude without the scientific side........

I suggest you Cut 1st until your at a weight about10lbs- 20lbs in range of what you really want your weight to be and then bulk. Don't worry about how much you weight at this time but watch what you eat. Start a Bulking period and then You should be looking like Brad Pitt naked in Troy (i'm not homo...but if I had a body like that All the chicks would want me!!! )


Do this man and your good to go listen to what these guys say but as far as going about a plan for doing it I Garuntee you won't be dissapointed with my advice... Get Ripped so we can go Sargin together aight!!! peace!!

 

[Warboss Alex]

Semag mate, I can retire from the world of bbing and leave in you, a most capable apprentice. Kudos man, you've read around a lot, digested the info and you're gonna go far.

Create Reality - semag's post really sums it up, since serious body recomposition is more about diet than training, being a beginner you'll grow off any program you put 110% into.. but diet will determine whether you lose the fat (and don't put any more on) while you build the muscle.

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79541 for my thoughts on the subject. (and I'm still learning every day, but through trial, error and experience I've found that most everything touched upon in that link is true)

Mercutio .. you want to look like Brad Pitt naked in Troy so the girls want you, but, um.. I fail to see whether you'll be parading about naked for all female eyes to see?

Get in perspective guys, weight-lifting and muscle-building should be done firstly for ourselves, for our satisfaction, health and enjoyment; if it helps to attract girls then so much better, otherwise if you're just looking for that super-sexy perfect body then most likely you'll never achieve it and be disappointed.

Look on every improvement you make on your own body as a victory, (very) small steps on the way to a better you, a road which will take years but be worth it in the end.

Although if it makes you feel any better, I think that a Pittesque body is perfectly achieveable for most of us .. I just wouldn't be satisfied with being so small, lol.

 

[mrRuckus]

Originally posted by Heizen
What you are describing is a clean bulk. Not losing fat and cutting at the same time, which I understand is the only way to bulk. You cannot bulk and cut at the same time. The reason you eat the protein is so your body doesn't eat your muscle while you are losing fat.

Warboss says otherwise. He still hasn't explained how HE does it or his reasoning behind it when I asked him, so I am interested in seeing his reply to this thread.

Unless he has definitive proof otherwise, a surplus (or just the right amount of calories) is needed to bulk, and a deficit to cut.

I lost a lot of fat and gained loads of strength at the same time. I dont know how sustainable that is. I went from 170 to 144 back to 170 and kept gaining strength and losing fat at the same time.

I had no real special meal plan outside of eating a lot of protein (i didn't even take whey at the time). I also ate a lot of chinese food, a few bowls of cereal at 3am, and peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. I stopped eating chips, candy, drinks with calories, and other things generally known to have next to no real health benefits. I went running 5 days a week and lifted 5 days. I did get drunk a few nights a week at the same time.

I wasn't too bright but somehow it worked out so i know it can happen.

 

[Warboss Alex]

Heizen, I've said this before.. it's all about super heavy training, timing, food combinations, nutrient partitioning and patience.

The thread I wrote explains my reasoning and how/why I do it!

http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=79541

 

[semag]

Originally posted by Warboss Alex
Semag mate, I can retire from the world of bbing and leave in you, a most capable apprentice. Kudos man, you've read around a lot, digested the info and you're gonna go far.

Thank you for the compliment my friend. I re-read that post today and was like "damn, I shouldn't post half-drunk, it's not very coherant."