trusting in an LTR w/ a HB

[rbd]

Hey guys,

It's been awhile since my last post. I have a slight situation that I'd like to bring up to the board and get input on. I'm 27 and have been dating this attractive 31 y/o HB8 for about 10 months. Things have been going well...she's been a really good girlfriend over all, very high attraction level to me (even if the security level with me has been low at times -- I had a 'afraid of commitment' streak there I had to get over), and has never done anything to disrespect me that I know of.

So anyhow, she works as an program assistant to a company that does continuing education MBA programs. Last night they had a graduation ceremony for the MBA students (17 guys in their 20-30s) in a nearby large city. Around 3AM she calls me from her hotel room and is quite drunk. She says that after the ceremony she and her 4 female and 1 male coworkers had gone clubbing with the graduates (some guy was leading the pack and got some girls he knew and took them all out to clubs around the city). When she first called I was worried that she wasn't safe (someone had taken her room key at some point earlier...she was pretty out of it) ...

After all of that was taken care of I asked her what happened. She said the guys kept getting her drinks apparently and she chose to get drunk because "her feet hurt" from all the walking around. There's many other pointless details to it...obviously guys were making advances and she was pretty insistent that she was being 100% respectful of me. Given her age and past track record I'm inclined to trust her.... it's just that some of the things she said were a bit weird, like "women are more reliable than guys.... except for me" -- apparently talking about a past relationship where she couldn't commit to the guy and has since learned her lesson from.

I remained pretty even but a little bit of jealously/doubting did come out. She was pretty worried that I'd get the wrong idea and "get vindictive". So my question is: what's the board's experience with situations like this? You date a HB, part of keeping her around is staying cool to other guys, but there are limits (which can be fuzzy at times). With this, given her track record, I'm inclined to trust her and forget about it, but I've been that single guy hitting on the 25-31 y/o HB8 with a boyfriend and I know how far I was able to get.

If she was set on doing anything, she would just do it and certainly wouldn't tell me about it....but honestly I'm a bit surprised that with her age and her professed level of maturity that she'd get herself that deep into this kind of situation. So with all that being said, I was going to put it behind me, not bring it up again, but at the same time watch her behavior for any signs of weirdness. Otherwise it's just mental masturbation, wondering what 'could of' happened...I think I know enough....?

rbd

 

[vitor]

Hmm the only thing odd or off is the line about I got drunk because my feet hurt, and how guys kept buying her drinks all night and she did not disresepct you. Was she trying to make you jealous. You can rack your brains like you said forever wondering what happened, or assume that it was all innocent and no big deal.

Sounds like these guys were trying to get her drunk and sleep with her, but isnt that what we would do if we were out with a hot chick.

 

[kingy]

if she would be okay with you doing it then its fine. unless she really crossed a boundary then she gotta be told about that. personally i wouldnt tollerate that but im quite high maintence

 

[Die Hard]

Based on what you've told us so far, I definitely suspect her of having cheated on you. But you've only given us a summary of the conversation...if you want me or others to help you get more certainty, you need to give us a full transcript of the conversation. Try to remember every little word and sentence, each and every detail, that includes her tone of voice at certain moments, her taking a pause before answering certain questions of yours, EVERYTHING. If she cheated on you, I'm pretty sure I/we can find clues that give her away. But those clues are always found in small details, so we need to know the details.

It's probably difficult to remember it all. Don't try to remember the conversation in chronological order, just think of the parts that you do remember clearly and try to expand those moments into remembering what she said right before or right after those moments that you can still remember clearly. What interests me most at this point, is the part of the conversation where she said:

"women are more reliable than guys.... except for me"

From all that you've told us, this definitely is the thing that makes my alarm bells ring loudest... But I really need to know in what context she said it. You told us she was apparently talking about a past relationship... Sounds like you're not sure yourself why she said it and what she was aiming at exactly. So what did she say before this? What did you say to her? How did the conversation lead up to this specific point where she expressed this quote?

 

[speed dawg]

I would have never answered the phone if I knew she had been out getting drunk. If it was an emergency she'd have left a message, and my theory is that anything you get yourself into while drinking is not an emergency - most of the time. There are exceptions.

But nevertheless she's testing you by telling you about the night and the guys involved. I'd just act uninterested. Watch her actions from now on, but in the end you'll never know if she cheated or not.

 

[SamMalone]

"You date a HB, part of keeping her around is staying cool to other guys, but there are limits (which can be fuzzy at times). "

This depends on your limits. For example, I made it clear to my HB that I have no problem with her talking to guys,ect. She cannot go out with them one on one though. If she ever does, I walk away. Too many problems arise if you "stay cool" with the "guy friends" thing. We all know what those guys are up to.

 

[jophil28]

If she was set on doing anything, she would just do it and certainly wouldn't tell me about it....but honestly I'm a bit surprised that with her age and her professed level of maturity that she'd get herself that deep into this kind of situation. So with all that being said, I was going to put it behind me, not bring it up again, but at the same time watch her behavior for any signs of weirdness. Otherwise it's just mental masturbation, wondering what 'could of' happened...I think I know enough....?

rbd

If she has not done anything similar in the past and does not start clubbing with her girls in the future, I would just write this event off as a lapse in judgement on her part.

In my experience, women who are about to cheat do not call their B/fs from a hotel room. She called you (albeit, drunk) to reconnect with you.. that means YOU were in her thoughts.

However, in your position I would certainly be a little disturbed at her wiilingness to get drunk with strangers, BUT not alarmed enough to break up with her.
It is bewildering sometimes to try to make sense of what women are saying when they are sober. When they are drunk it is like trying to decode martian-speak. Forget what she said on the phone - it means nothing. Watch what she does - that means everything.

 

[Die Hard]

In my experience, women who are about to cheat do not call their B/fs from a hotel room. She called you (albeit, drunk) to reconnect with you.. that means YOU were in her thoughts.

What makes you so sure she was about to cheat? Let's turn it around: what if she had already cheated on him? In that case, it's quite logical that HE was in her thoughts and she tried to reconnect with him! When you're in a LTR and you kiss some other guy at a party, who would be the first one you think of? Exactly... your boyfriend. You'd feel guilty and try to reconnect with him fast to get rid of the guilty feeling and assure him (and by doing so, try to reassure yourself) that he's the only one you want to be with... I fear that this is what happened and I think her guilty conscience told her she should confess what she had done right away, in order to get rid of the guilty feeling. But like most people, she got scared that he would dump her or at least get REALLY pissed off. So her conscience was shifting between:

* I did something bad, I'll feel terrible about myself until I confess...
* If I confess, he'll get really angry and might even dump me! Plus, I don't want to be confronted with his sadness when he hears it, it will make me feel even worse about myself!

So she kinda struggled with both these thoughts and eventually did something in between confessing and denying, some of both. This line ""women are more reliable than guys.... except for me" was her attempt to confess but she didn't really push it through, she was too afraid.

But this is just my "hunch". As I said, we need more details of the conversation.

 

[Colossus]

So with all that being said, I was going to put it behind me, not bring it up again, but at the same time watch her behavior for any signs of weirdness. Otherwise it's just mental masturbation, wondering what 'could of' happened...I think I know enough....?

I think that's a good plan and you have your head on straight. The worst thing you could do would be to start probing her for answers about that night. Like Jophil said, if she were cheating on you it's unlikely she would be calling you from her hotel room....but at the same time, you cant take a drunk woman's word. Most of us have BEEN that guy hitting on the drunk girl with a boyfriend, and we know how that can turn out.

If you haven't had any reason to suspect she is being shady thus far, and her track record seems clean by your estimation; then I would do exactly what you proposed and just carry on as normal, but keep your eyes open for any sketchy behavior.

One thing I will say however, is that keeping a neutral head is a good trait to have. Ive been on both extremes; where I would constantly make excuses for a girl whose behavior was wayyyy out of line, and Ive been at a point where I would take one little mishap and turn it into a criminal interrogation. Both are bad. You need to have evidence before you call her on anything.

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

can't correct it now but........next time don't answer the phone at 3AM.

 

[jophil28]

I gave this OP some thought and an interesting idea popped up .

This situation has happened to me in a several forms.
When it happened to me, the conclusions that I drew were that she was connecting with me to access my steadying influence - kind of like reaching out for a tree branch when the wind is howling.

BY her own words she was out of control ( her own) because of the drinks - she acknowledged that. I think that what happened here may be seen as a good thing in some ways.

I think that she called RBD for equilibrium, both emotional and perhaps even moral. If that is true, then she sees him as her 'rock' .

Just thinking...

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

"Rocks" don't answer the phone at 3AM.

Ever.

No way, no how, not at any age....

The only exception is you're at an after party swapping babes with Tiger Woods and Bret Michaels and you want to invite her along.

And I doubt anyone on this forum gets in too many of those situations.

Keep 'em guessing, man. always!

 

[squirrels]

BY her own words she was out of control ( her own) because of the drinks - she acknowledged that. I think that what happened here may be seen as a good thing in some ways.

Probably...but the important question was whether she WANTED to be "reigned in" by the OP's "steadying influence", or whether she WANTED to be "out of control" and was calling the OP to absolve herself of "guilt" for wanting that.

I'm a big believer in the saying, "In Vino Veritas". (In wine there is truth) Elements of our nature as human beings are revealed when drunk that are otherwise suppressed when we are sober. If when sober she's happy with him, but when drunk she yearns for the "wild and free" life, I'm not so sure that the "sober" version of her is the "true" one.

 

[jophil28]

Probably...but the important question was whether she WANTED to be "reigned in" by the OP's "steadying influence", or whether she WANTED to be "out of control" and was calling the OP to absolve herself of "guilt" for wanting that.

I'm a big believer in the saying, "In Vino Veritas". (In wine there is truth) Elements of our nature as human beings are revealed when drunk that are otherwise suppressed when we are sober. If when sober she's happy with him, but when drunk she yearns for the "wild and free" life, I'm not so sure that the "sober" version of her is the "true" one.

Yes, if what you suggest in your last sentence is true, then what can RBD ( or the girl herself, for that matter ) do? Insist that she stay clear of alcohol perhaps?
I think that most folks' inhibitions are relaxed when that are drinking - but this woman did not act out ( as far as we know ). We cannot know her thoughts , but we do know about her behavior - she picked up a phone and called her guy. Of course I am assuming that she did not allow herself to be seduced, or indeed that she did not continue to drink more after she hung up. We can never really know.

I lean towards the conclusion that she wanted to be "reigned in" because she called RBD in an inebriated state. Of course she, (like all women would ), painted a picture of her drinking with guys who were almost forcing alcohol on her and therefore she was innocent. Aren't woman experts at dodging responsibility and sliding any fault or blame across to the nearest man?

The fact that she was drinking with strangers on unfamiliar territory would concern me because of the spiking possibility.

 

[Die Hard]

I'm a big believer in the saying, "In Vino Veritas". (In wine there is truth) Elements of our nature as human beings are revealed when drunk that are otherwise suppressed when we are sober. If when sober she's happy with him, but when drunk she yearns for the "wild and free" life, I'm not so sure that the "sober" version of her is the "true" one.

The "true" her doesn't exist. There's simply "her being sober" and "her being drunk", none of them is the "true" one.

Anyway, I share your belief in the saying "In Vino Veritas". When we're drunk we tend to reveal things about ourselves that we wouldn't reveal so easily when we're sober. And that's exactly why THIS particular revelation of hers should be taken VERY seriously:

"women are more reliable than guys.... except for me"

As long as the OP doesn't provide more background information, I consider this revelation as a confession that she crossed the line (whether it was kissing someone, grinding on some guy's d*ck on the dancefloor, sitting on someone's lap and hugging him or going 'all the way' with someone...)


By the way: Why does everybody keep assuming she was calling him with regards to something she was about to do? It was 3 o'clock in the night, guys had been feeding her drinks all night and tried to hit on her... Still you guys seem to disregard the possibility that something had already happened and purely focus on the possibility of her doing something after the phone call. Weird...

 

[squirrels]

I lean towards the conclusion that she wanted to be "reigned in" because she called RBD in an inebriated state. Of course she, (like all women would ), painted a picture of her drinking with guys who were almost forcing alcohol on her and therefore she was innocent. Aren't woman experts at dodging responsibility and sliding any fault or blame across to the nearest man?

Exactly. Do you think you could trust a girl who NEEDED to be "reigned in"? And the question remains, why does she feel the need to reach out to someone else to keep her from making a bad decision? What if he doesn't answer? What if his phone is dead and he doesn't pick up to "reign her in"? Does she start flashing her (.)(.) and making out with random dudes?

Guys are way, WAY too quick to trust women based on their word alone...mainly because they WANT to believe that women aren't all slvts and wh0res. (they are)

I know that sounds judgemental. But it's true. I've seen just enough that you won't convince me otherwise...and any woman who thinks she's "neither" is lying to herself, which is maybe 99% of the female population.

 

[Die Hard]

Guys are way, WAY too quick to trust women based on their word alone...mainly because they WANT to believe that women aren't all slvts and wh0res. (they are).

Couldn't agree more! Furthermore, all those slvts and wh0res know it just as well as you and I do...they use it to their advantage! At the first sign of the guy being suspicious of her, she'll start ranting: "How dare you treat me like this? You deeply insult me by even considering me capable of doing such a thing! Only slvts and wh0res do that! Is that what you think of me?!"

He'll go: "No, no, baby! Of course that's not what I think of you!"

And she'll go: "Yes, you do! Otherwise you wouldn't act suspicious of me! I don't wanna see you anymore!" (if she's an authentic BPD, she'll throw in some tears for added effect)

Knowing that he can't prove anything anyway, he'll give in and say: "No wait, I'm sorry! I don't know what I was thinking, baby. Let me make it up to you blah blah blah"

Her: "Well, you better not treat me this way again. Next time you pull this sh*t on me, you can find yourself a new girlfriend! I don't deserve to be treated like this!"

Next time he suspects anything, he won't dare to further investigate coz even the slightest sign of him being suspicious would cause her to leave him (that's what she made him believe, anyway). And so she has created herself absolute freedom to fool around as much as she wants, the guy sure won't find out coz even when he suspects anything, he won't investigate any further...

 

[Pickupmilitia]

Its a crap shoot on whether she cheated or not. Ask her to be honest with you and say you don't care if she made a mistake you would forgive her as long as she's honest.

THen if she reveals the truth of cheating, take a page from the movie Closer and call her a ***** and walk out!

 

[radiodude]

There are a couple things that stand out in this story...

The main one being that she allowed herself to become drunk, away from you, amongst other men and submitted herself to the leading of another unknown man. (the guy leading the group she mentioned.)Healthy, responsible women, (yes they do exist), who are happy in their relationships do not allow themselves to be led by another unknown man while getting drunk, apart from their own man.

The second is her "I'm unreliable" comment. Thats actually quite disturbing and for her to even tell you that on the phone in the situation she was in is disrespectful in-and-of-itself. This SEEMS like a half-admission of guilt. THEN AGAIN, could have been rambling to keep you from getting upset (although I state that thought begrudgingly).

However, I would say that she get's the benefit of the doubt this time. If this occurs again and a similar situation occurs when she is out, then it's time to make some changes.

Do let us know how things go over the next couple weeks with this.

 

[Slickster]

She didn't cheat in my opinion. She wouldn't even call if she did.

She should be allowed to go out and celebrate with her friends after a graduation. The fact that she called is a display of respect in my opinion.

If she's a HB8 then she gets male attention wherever she goes. Drunk or not. Build trust based on her actions.

The biggest thing you need to do early on in any relationship with a hot chick is to set your boundaries. You need to call her out on any inappropriate actions right away. Let her know that if that is how things are going to be then fine, you won't waste your time. Let her know that you are ready to walk at any given moment at the slightest fvckup on her part.