Three years later and I still haven't learned.. hitting a new low

[T-Mack]

The last time I posted on here was three years ago. I had recently started dating a girl 7 years younger than me. Fast forward 3 years to present I am single again and brokenhearted. For the past year I let her walk all over me until the point she decided she wanted to move out and leave me to move back in with her parents in another city. Although, she claimed the primary reasons for leaving was because she hated the city, her job and wanted to go back to school. She came back into town recently to visit friends, and keep in mind she left me two weeks ago. She asked if she could stop by and see me and of course I said okay. We hook up but no sex and then she instantly leaves and apologizes saying she didn't want to lead me on. I ask her to come over again two days later while she is still in town.

She walks in and instantly lays a bomb on me and tells me she was drunk with her friends and slept with someone the night before and didn't even bother to use protection. This wasn't what I was expecting to happen. I thought we would hook up again and instead my heart got stomped on because I'm not over the breakup yet. She said she regretted it and had wished it was me. I blew up on her and kicked her out of my place immediately, which was followed by me sending her angry texts the following day and her blocking me after that. How would you guys have handled this situation?

The whole point of this post is to reflect on what happened. What did I do wrong to lead up to this point? To give you guys an idea of our relationship, it shouldn't have happened from the beginning. I saw all of the red flags such as emotional baggage (low-self esteem, mood swings, etc). Yet, I thought things would change and pass overtime and how very wrong was I?! I figured out some important things about myself I didn't realize before. I am a codependent, defined as someone that puts other people's needs before themselves. I found myself wanting to fix her issues all the time and putting my priorities on the back-burner for her. I did the same thing in my last 5 year relationship prior to dating the recent girl that just left me. I also didn't give myself enough time to be single when that 5 year relationship ended I was instantly in another relationship 3 months later with crazy girl. Is anyone else here a codependent and/or have suggestions on how to break free from it?

 

[Spaz]

Get another hobby, like hiking, biking, water sports etc. This will keep u healthy, gives u perspective, open to meet new people, and ultimately builds ur confidence.

THEN...

Start reading DJ bible.

 

[Stallionstud]

She walks in and instantly lays a bomb on me and tells me she was drunk with her friends and slept with someone the night before and didn't even bother to use protection. This wasn't what I was expecting to happen.

This is exactly what I expect when a relationship goes to the friend zone. That’s why #1, exspect this. and #2, if you can’t play it cool for your own personal gain. You MUST use No Contact. For yourself. I use it when I catch feelings until they are 100% gone.

As far as the second post with girls planning breakups long term I witnessed that myself recently. I didn’t bother trying to fix it, I didn’t care. Just observed, its interesting to look back on. Like “oh that’s why when someone asked her if they should take our picture together she declined” seemed weird at the time. Makes total sense now.

 

[T-Mack]

markfromeurope you hit the nail on the head with most of the things you said. I first let her move in with me a year after we had been dating. I moved to a new city and told her she couldn't move in with me unless she had a job first, which didn't really matter because she never made enough to pay half of rent anyways when she did get the job. I let her live with me on a free ride and it ended up taking a financial toll on me in the end. I am thousands of dollars in credit card debt and most of it was spent on her. I know I have no one else to blame, but myself.

After about the first three months of living together things started to fall apart and we were on the rocks. I don't blame her though the job she was working was terrible and she ended up changing to a better company a few months later, but still hated her job. Also, the city isn't the greatest and I myself will be moving when I get the first opportunity. Really we should have ended things after those first three months of living together because the same problems resurfaced a year later, but I tried so hard to believe we could work through it again. Ultimately, deep down I always knew it was a temporary band-aid before the inevitable breakup would happen after every time we would makeup. Then not even 4 months after that we decided it wasn't working and broke it off. I let her live with me for about a month after the initial breakup, but I knew that was a mistake. We had the typical awesome post breakup sex one time a few days later after the breakup.

I know I had originally said she moved out two weeks ago, but I failed to mention that we had already been broken up for a month prior to that. I should of told her she needed to move out and be gone within a week after the break up and not wait a month later. She stayed with friends during most of that period though and would sleep on my couch when she did stay at my place. She started hanging out with new friends that I wasn't very fond of and going out more prior to the breakup. At one point she was going out to dinner and seeing a movie with her friend's brother and didn't even bother to tell me that info she would just say going over to her girlfriend's house. The brother and sister live together. I thought she was hanging out with her friend only to find out she wasn't even there half the time and it was just her and the brother. I admitted to her I was jealous and told her I thought something was going on, but she assured me they were just friends and nothing happened. But now after what happened recently its starting to make me believe they were messing around and he's not even the same guy she told me about that she slept with recently. I've met both of the guys. I swallowed the blue pill during our whole relationship. She was the last person I would have thought to sleep with someone else so soon like that. However, it is exactly what I needed to bring myself back to reality and to begin moving on from this mess.

 

[R.U.G.]

The last time I posted on here was three years ago. I had recently started dating a girl 7 years younger than me. Fast forward 3 years to present I am single again and brokenhearted. For the past year I let her walk all over me until the point she decided she wanted to move out and leave me to move back in with her parents in another city. Although, she claimed the primary reasons for leaving was because she hated the city, her job and wanted to go back to school. She came back into town recently to visit friends, and keep in mind she left me two weeks ago. She asked if she could stop by and see me and of course I said okay. We hook up but no sex and then she instantly leaves and apologizes saying she didn't want to lead me on. I ask her to come over again two days later while she is still in town.

She walks in and instantly lays a bomb on me and tells me she was drunk with her friends and slept with someone the night before and didn't even bother to use protection. This wasn't what I was expecting to happen. I thought we would hook up again and instead my heart got stomped on because I'm not over the breakup yet. She said she regretted it and had wished it was me. I blew up on her and kicked her out of my place immediately, which was followed by me sending her angry texts the following day and her blocking me after that. How would you guys have handled this situation?

The whole point of this post is to reflect on what happened. What did I do wrong to lead up to this point? To give you guys an idea of our relationship, it shouldn't have happened from the beginning. I saw all of the red flags such as emotional baggage (low-self esteem, mood swings, etc). Yet, I thought things would change and pass overtime and how very wrong was I?! I figured out some important things about myself I didn't realize before. I am a codependent, defined as someone that puts other people's needs before themselves. I found myself wanting to fix her issues all the time and putting my priorities on the back-burner for her. I did the same thing in my last 5 year relationship prior to dating the recent girl that just left me. I also didn't give myself enough time to be single when that 5 year relationship ended I was instantly in another relationship 3 months later with crazy girl. Is anyone else here a codependent and/or have suggestions on how to break free from it?

Listen to the R.U.G. First, do you know what R.U.G. stands for? Really Unbelievable Guy. That is what you need to become. Women feed off of drama and emotion. You, need to control your sh!t and not play into their dramatical games. Your former b!tch already knew how you would react, or was hoping to get an emotional response. You gave her what she wanted. She wasn't going to hook up with you the 1st or 2nd time. She did it for validation and to make you wonder. If the b!tch breaks it off with you, never go back. If you break it off with the b!tch, you sometimes can go back, but it's wise to move on.

1st, get your sh!t together. Better yourself in mind, body and soul. What i s that? Work out in the gym. Better your mind by reading and expanding your mind and knowledge of life. Soul, need peace of mind. Study Yoga or the martial arts to control your emotions. Pouring out your heart (or feelings) for a b!tch never works unless you are on a tv show or movies. B!tches see that as weak and feminine. There are only few times you get a pass for showing your emotions. Insane tragedy on mass scale, serious medical issue (cancer, ms, etc) or family death. It sucks, but that's life nowadays.

Man up dude. The only emotion you should be showing women are fun, laughter and orgasms.

 

[T-Mack]

This is exactly what I expect when a relationship goes to the friend zone. That’s why #1, exspect this. and #2, if you can’t play it cool for your own personal gain. You MUST use No Contact. For yourself. I use it when I catch feelings until they are 100% gone.

As far as the second post with girls planning breakups long term I witnessed that myself recently. I didn’t bother trying to fix it, I didn’t care. Just observed, its interesting to look back on. Like “oh that’s why when someone asked her if they should take our picture together she declined” seemed weird at the time. Makes total sense now.

Yep, I thought I could handle it for my personal gain, but it was way too soon. I made up some crap story to her about how this would be no strings attached before I invited her over. I already had a gut feeling she had already slept with another person based on her response to what I had said when she replied with yeah, I could do that but we need to talk about things first.

 

[Stallionstud]

Yep, I thought I could handle it for my personal gain, but it was way too soon.

You underestimated a challenge. Always over estimate. If you can handle watching her get double teamed than your capable of playing it cool. Otherwise you’re going to get the knife twisted.

 

[Machine10033]

Listen man, don't be hard on yourself! This takes time and tons of heavy work and some guys can never become less emotional. In 2002 I was in your boat and emotional mess over a girl. I found this site and read as much as i can ! You start to understand the mindset you need but it takes practice and tons of practice to start and develop it. I knew back then what to do but emotionally was still a mess. A girl would do something and I would react how this site tells you to react but internally it would kill me. Overtime I saw the same thing from girl after girl and I stopped viewing them as some elusive prize. Girls are manipulative animals and understand how to steer a guy with his emotions. It is their evolutionary defense mechanism and you need to understand it is the only way they can control you. Get out there and experience as many women as you can ! You will soon lose emotional attachment once you see they are all programmed exactly the same. Again this takes time and eventually you will not care. I always joke that they are energy vampires ! They NEED you to feed them, give them attention, show them emotional reactions for them to feel good about themselves. You fed this girl and she will soon need more. She has you blocked but one night she will feel sad and lonely and unblock you, message you, try and suck you back in... and hope to take more of your energy. Guard it with your life

 

[Stallionstud]

A girl would do something and I would react how this site tells you to react but internally it would kill me.

Currently this is me. It fvcking tore me apart recently for 3 weeks. Until I inevitably reverted back just to get it off my chest so I could fvcking sleep and get over it. Weak move yes. But sleeping better, caring less.

 

[ohrein]

You need to enter every relationship with the understanding that people are capable of doing impulsive and immoral acts. Everyone is. This is what the basic premise of red pill theory is getting at. You can mitigate the chances of it happening with your SMV, frame and game, but you can not prevent it completely. I am with a high quality woman who I've screened mercilessly for months. I'm as comfortable as I can be in trusting a woman. But that doesn't mean I'm not paying attention and emotionally at the ready for her doing the worst possible thing I can think of. If that day comes, I've already half processed it in my mind and I know I'll be fine. I have a great life outside of her, so it's not the end of the world. I know I can get another woman if I want to. Maybe I won't.

The main point is to never lose awareness. I've said it a few times on here and I'll say it again. People are chaos. Enjoy what you have while you have it, nothing lasts forever. Focus on ordering the things in your life you can control. Set your life up so it's good no matter who tries to **** you over, because there is someone in your life right now who's going to **** you over real soon.

 

[btownbuck2012]

You need to enter every relationship with the understanding that people are capable of doing impulsive and immoral acts. Everyone is. This is what the basic premise of red pill theory is getting at. You can mitigate the chances of it happening with your SMV, frame and game, but you can not prevent it completely. I am with a high quality woman who I've screened mercilessly for months. I'm as comfortable as I can be in trusting a woman. But that doesn't mean I'm not paying attention and emotionally at the ready for her doing the worst possible thing I can think of. If that day comes, I've already half processed it in my mind and I know I'll be fine. I have a great life outside of her, so it's not the end of the world. I know I can get another woman if I want to. Maybe I won't.

The main point is to never lose awareness. I've said it a few times on here and I'll say it again. People are chaos. Enjoy what you have while you have it, nothing lasts forever. Focus on ordering the things in your life you can control. Set your life up so it's good no matter who tries to **** you over, because there is someone in your life right now who's going to **** you over real soon.

Is that any way to enjoy a relationship though? It isn't. It speaks more to the state of our society and relationships between men and women than it does this being the wrong thing to do. It's not wrong, your approach is a good one, it's just a damn shame it has come to this.

 

[R.U.G.]

Ohrein is correct. You need to take care of you first. If a woman comes around and wants to take a ride on your journey through life, cool. If not fvck em. It's a sad state on how relations between men and women have turned. Both are guilty, but women are just out of control.

 

[ohrein]

Is that any way to enjoy a relationship though? It isn't. It speaks more to the state of our society and relationships between men and women than it does this being the wrong thing to do. It's not wrong, your approach is a good one, it's just a damn shame it has come to this.

You can still enjoy it. You don't enjoy a roller coaster any less because it ends. You don't enjoy a holiday any less because you come back to reality. I'm not interested in ideals because reality can't be ideal. Life is complicated and to think that we can exert complete control over it is simply wrong. We have to accept we're in a rickety boat being pulled down a strong river. We can steer the boat and enjoy the scenery but tragedy is inevitable. There's not one of us on this earth who isn't capable of doing horrible things when circumstances line up. Try as we may, we let our impulses get the better of us. I trust my best friends and my girl to 99.9%. I'm just aware that people are flawed and I'm going to act accordingly.

As Jordan Peterson says, chaos is when your expectations are proven false. The reason break ups and betrayal mess people up so badly is because the thing they believed in to be the most true turned out to be false. There was no way this person I love would do that. But they did, and now your reality no longer makes sense. If you accept reality instead, those things become understandable. Doesn't mean you have to tolerate it, but it won't destroy you.

The point is, it's not a shame, it simply is.

 

[strikerace13]

Sounds like she came back to see if you where a mess and you proved it so she did her job. Women want to see you fall apart to prove your not man enough for them. This is why I don't get sad or broken up anymore over a women. If she doesn't like who I am, there's the door. lol You really have to have this kind of thinking as women hate doormats and women don't want to be with someone that does value themselves.

 

[btownbuck2012]

The reason break ups and betrayal mess people up so badly is because the thing they believed in to be the most true turned out to be false. There was no way this person I love would do that. But they did, and now your reality no longer makes sense. If you accept reality instead, those things become understandable. Doesn't mean you have to tolerate it, but it won't destroy you.

The point is, it's not a shame, it simply is.

I agree with this to an extent but this mindset is one that totally ignores honor, integrity, loyalty and empathy for others. My only beef with the red pill is that it excuses what is otherwise atrocious behavior by simply stating that “well her hypergamy got triggered” or “you didn’t lead” or “your frame wasn’t strong enough”, etc.

I understand the nature of women and
that being aware that she could drop you and move on at the drop of a hat is something we all must keep in mind, and I truly want you to know that I agree with you on that point and have Internalized that mindset. we’re on the same page there.

What I fundamentally disagree with is trying to make others feel like they are somehow wrong for feeling deep hurt, sadness and a tremendous sense of loss as not being appropriate because their “expectations” weren’t met. I’m not saying you’re doing this,I’m just generally speaking about the mindset that is preached to guys in the manosphere regarding their advice for how to move on after a breakup or an overall effective dating strategy.

Now I am convinced that what we are seeing today from women is a direct result of the sexual revolution and feminism. Look at the stats. More single parent homes, lower fertility and birth rates, tons of male suicides, etc. Women have been given a pass to behave however they want, literally. Now the true red pill man knows that women cannot handle this level of responsibility without burning society to the ground. They aren’t built or designed for it.

Take me for example. There have been a few people in my life that I would have loved to punch in the face, I’m talking about other men here BUT If I do that and kill the guy I go to prison. Therefore, I’ve learned other ways to deal with people who have wronged me in such a way that I would get that angry. This, overall, is good for society. It’s why we have jails. Hell, it’s why the United Nations was created after the world war. Imagine if you knew you could hit anybody you wanted and face no legal repercussions. Would that change people’s “expectations” about disagreeing with you after the fact?

Now back to women. They have been given a free pass by our society to act immorally. Look at divorce. What incentive is a woman given not to divorce and actually try to work things out with her husband? None. Divorce is a windfall for most women. It’s a throwaway society. Without slut shaming, women gorge themselves and ultimately destroy themselves and the very fabric of our society in the process.

My inherent, natural and deep rooted need to be able to trust a woman who I have invested in doesn't make me a beta or weak. In fact the betas are the guys who beat themselves up over women's immoral behavior. "Well if I had been good enough or more alpha or had a higher SMV this wouldn't have happened". That's nonsense. At a certain point people need to be able to override their animalistic desires and inclinations for the purpose of the greater good: family, healthy relationships, mental and physical well being, etc. BUT, we don't have that anymore in our society. It's gone. Having a relationship with a woman where you are constantly aware of the fact that she could be gone at the drop of a hat is NOT normal. It's reality and it's what we're dealing with in 2018 but it is not in any way shape or form healthy or natural or normal.

Now, for the most part my experiences could be a bit skewed because they have mostly come in major cities, LA and NYC. So the climate out here, if you will, is different than the rest of America, so there's that. But, to sum up what I'm trying to say here I'm reminded of a good quote:

"it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

 

[ohrein]

I want to preface this reply by saying I appreciate how careful you worded your thoughts. We're both on the same page fundamentally and I think I'm just trying to view the problem pragmatically, while you're viewing it socially. I don't disagree that we should strive to improve society by encouraging and teaching morality (and philosophy in general), because it is so fundamental to western civilization and crucially important to peace. But my main concern is teaching people how to protect themselves now, rather than trying to rally social change. Ideally we do both but that's beyond the scope of this forum.

I agree with this to an extent but this mindset is one that totally ignores honor, integrity, loyalty and empathy for others. My only beef with the red pill is that it excuses what is otherwise atrocious behavior by simply stating that “well her hypergamy got triggered” or “you didn’t lead” or “your frame wasn’t strong enough”, etc.

We're not ignoring integrity, we're simply understanding that it is lacking in society. We can ourselves act with integrity (and we should) while simultaneously understanding that other people will sometimes not. We are dealing with how things are, not how we'd like them to be, when we are dealing with other people. We're not seeking to excuse terrible behavior, but learning how to best mitigate it for the betterment of not only our lives, but the women we choose to invite to participate with us. You can try and fight the evolutionary biological drive in a woman or you can work with it. I see it as pragmatism versus idealism and I am a pragmatic person fundamentally.

What I fundamentally disagree with is trying to make others feel like they are somehow wrong for feeling deep hurt, sadness and a tremendous sense of loss as not being appropriate because their “expectations” weren’t met. I’m not saying you’re doing this,I’m just generally speaking about the mindset that is preached to guys in the manosphere regarding their advice for how to move on after a breakup or an overall effective dating strategy.

It's not wrong to feel deeply hurt. That feeling is natural and it's something I've experienced myself. But that feeling is not useful and is sometimes downright deadly. I want to teach people how to protect their mental health so they don't end up spiraling into serious problems. I have actually let my love for a woman nearly kill me so I'm very aware of the danger young men are in today. I don't want to see that happen. I think you can mitigate the damage if you're aware of the possibility, that's all.

Now I am convinced that what we are seeing today from women is a direct result of the sexual revolution and feminism. Look at the stats. More single parent homes, lower fertility and birth rates, tons of male suicides, etc. Women have been given a pass to behave however they want, literally. Now the true red pill man knows that women cannot handle this level of responsibility without burning society to the ground. They aren’t built or designed for it.

Take me for example. There have been a few people in my life that I would have loved to punch in the face, I’m talking about other men here BUT If I do that and kill the guy I go to prison. Therefore, I’ve learned other ways to deal with people who have wronged me in such a way that I would get that angry. This, overall, is good for society. It’s why we have jails. Hell, it’s why the United Nations was created after the world war. Imagine if you knew you could hit anybody you wanted and face no legal repercussions. Would that change people’s “expectations” about disagreeing with you after the fact?

Now back to women. They have been given a free pass by our society to act immorally. Look at divorce. What incentive is a woman given not to divorce and actually try to work things out with her husband? None. Divorce is a windfall for most women. It’s a throwaway society. Without slut shaming, women gorge themselves and ultimately destroy themselves and the very fabric of our society in the process.

You are correct. Feminism has pushed an ideal that tells women they should utilize their freedom, simply because they have it, rather than to use that freedom to make choices that benefit them. What we're seeing now is women who are trying to have it all because that's what they've been told they should do. They are given a free pass to do as they please because they're entitled to it, according to feminism. So the problem is what do we as red pill men do about it? I've been fighting feminism vocally for years, but that doesn't change the way things are. It comes back to pragmatism, I must protect myself since I cannot change the environment. If there is another option, I am not able to see it.

My inherent, natural and deep rooted need to be able to trust a woman who I have invested in doesn't make me a beta or weak. In fact the betas are the guys who beat themselves up over women's immoral behavior. "Well if I had been good enough or more alpha or had a higher SMV this wouldn't have happened". That's nonsense. At a certain point people need to be able to override their animalistic desires and inclinations for the purpose of the greater good: family, healthy relationships, mental and physical well being, etc. BUT, we don't have that anymore in our society. It's gone. Having a relationship with a woman where you are constantly aware of the fact that she could be gone at the drop of a hat is NOT normal. It's reality and it's what we're dealing with in 2018 but it is not in any way shape or form healthy or natural or normal.

I agree, so what are we to do about it? If you admit we are in a place socially where women are permitted and told it's not morally wrong to act how they please at any moment, what can we do other than protect ourselves from the possibility as much as we can? I don't see how we can change that fact other than by not engaging with the system or by engaging with it using extreme caution. Is there another option I've missed? I've met so many women who weren't bad people, who were intelligent and kind and loving but who simply did not have the self control or awareness to act with integrity. I can say the same about men as well.

Now, for the most part my experiences could be a bit skewed because they have mostly come in major cities, LA and NYC. So the climate out here, if you will, is different than the rest of America, so there's that. But, to sum up what I'm trying to say here I'm reminded of a good quote:

"it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

Since we have almost no control over society, the alternative is to be poorly adjusted in a profoundly sick society and suffer as a result. Pragmatism wins in a complex environment you have no control over.

Adapt or perish.

 

[strikerace13]

Women don't care about all of that if you Compromise your values to a women and become a doormat to her whim. Once you go down that road, you will start getting drama and all that comes with it. You really decide what you are going put up with when it comes to women.

 

[Pandora]

My inherent, natural and deep rooted need to be able to trust a woman who I have invested in doesn't make me a beta or weak. In fact the betas are the guys who beat themselves up over women's immoral behavior. "Well if I had been good enough or more alpha or had a higher SMV this wouldn't have happened". That's nonsense. At a certain point people need to be able to override their animalistic desires and inclinations for the purpose of the greater good: family, healthy relationships, mental and physical well being, etc. BUT, we don't have that anymore in our society. It's gone. Having a relationship with a woman where you are constantly aware of the fact that she could be gone at the drop of a hat is NOT normal. It's reality and it's what we're dealing with in 2018 but it is not in any way shape or form healthy or natural or normal.

Now, for the most part my experiences could be a bit skewed because they have mostly come in major cities, LA and NYC. So the climate out here, if you will, is different than the rest of America, so there's that. But, to sum up what I'm trying to say here I'm reminded of a good quote:

"it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society"

Real talk. I totally agree.