This aloofness stuff

[MrNiceGuy]

seems to work...

well sort of.. I'm not sure how much though.

Basically myself and my present (although rapidly becoming past) one-itis finished exams today and so spent the last 8 hours drinking together, just the two of us.

As I think I'm pretty much over her then I was pretty much normal with her, not trying too hard or anything, and I tried a few things.. basically I was a lot less revealing than normal, one particular example, I mentioned a night out I'd had recently, and that it ended with me and my flatmate enticing some random girl off the street into our flat.. and then I just left it at that.. she couldn't handle it!!
(silence)
"how long did this girl stay till then?"
me: "oh till about 4.30 probably, maybe later"
(silence)
(longer silence)
and then the key!, I'd ignited her curiosity
"so is she in the past then??"

so I had to admit,
"yeah.. I was a bit pissed off with myself for not asking her out when she left"

and well, the whole evening, even though I wasnt being particulalry forthcoming she still needed to know.. maybe because I wasnt sayng too much..

anyway, when we left she made a point of interlocking arms with me when I walked her to her bus, and giving me a kiss on the cheek when I left,

I've still no expectations of scoring with this girl, shes got a boyfriend and everything, but the fact that I was still able to keep talking to her for over 8 hours without trying too hard at any point makes me feel good. And the fact that I seem to have somehow come to terms with not being able to obtain her, but anyway thats not the point..

once you've built up some sort of level of closeness with a girl (with nothing romantic going on) try witholding bits of info and see what happens, women are nosy! its true you need to present some mystery.. the hardest part is finding the mysterious bit of yourself, this is what I'm still trying to work out......


soory if none of that makes sense I'm p*ssed at the moo

post your thoughts/comments on this sort of thing

 

[MrNiceGuy]

ha!

I just read the 5 signs shes interested in you tip on the main site.
Basically I got 4 out of the 5, the physical contact, the compliments, the curiosity, and she suggested meeting up next week (the future activities), I just didnt get the genuine kiss at the end.

Still shes clearly not interested at all.. as evidenced by practically the briefest possible "happy birthday" sms message I got off her the other day. Need to remind myself alot of this stuff doesnt apply to girls with boyfriends......

 

[Lone_raider]

Yeah stay the hell away from girls with boyfriends, I have to tell myself that everyday. There was this super hot girl I got along great with the entire year at college, found out she had a boyfriend so I never asked her out. By the end of the year she actually asked for my number, and gave me hers in return, then she said she would call me, which she did, we went for coffee once and I found out she still had the boyfriend. So I have just severed all contact/meetings since this last meeting happened in early May. I'm not going to go through what I once did with a girl that had a boyfriend, and I'm not going to go through what you are either! She is so damn hot, and we get along so well but it will never happen so long as she has a boyfriend, so I severed contact and the memory she has of me will be a great one and I've left it at that.

 

[becker]

Lone Raider, you're the man for being able to do that. I've been in a similar situation, and I wasn't able to just break the tie so easily, but then again, usually when I find out that a girl that I like has a BF, I just try to keep her as social proof anyways. It's difficult though, because some girls can be pretty loyal and won't even want to do anything with you for fear that it may lead to conflict in her relationship.

In general, it's not easy being friends with a girl with a BF since the BF will always be suspicious and block you. However, it's also hard to be friends with a girl who doesn't have a BF because then there's always the pressure that if you get along, you might as well start seeing each other.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

well, this boyfriend of hers lives over a hundred miles away so I've only had to deal with him a couple of times when hes come down to visit.. which is a good and bad thing I suppose...

on the one hand hes never around so I dont have to worry about him mucking up our firendship, but on the other hand hes not around and she doesnt talk about him that much so every now and again it leaves me some false hope that me and his girl will be able to get together... which of course gets me nowhere but p*ssed off.

Interestingly though.. I know I get on better with her than some of her female friends, but as her best mates are all girls I dont seem to get invited along when shes going out with them but some of these lesser female friends do.. I guess this is just a boy/girl thing, to be fair I've not invited her out when its been just me and my guy mates going out. Its a shame our social circles arent more mixed. As it is most of the stuff we've done together has been just the two of us, or with a couple of the mutual friends (these lesser female pals of hers and also of mine) that we do have.

Anyway I'm still thinking about how to create mystery about yourself when you're just chatting to someone youve met for the first time.. In order for it to work they need to exhibit a certain level of curiosity in you which I cant seem to get untill I know them better. If I try witholding information when I first meet them they either think I'm being rude or boring and arent interested.

regardless anyway, alot of my friends arent going to be around this summer so in order to maintain any form of social life I'm going to need to stay in touch with the mates that are around... and well, at the moment shes going to be one of my best mates that is still here so I've got to try and deal with it. I suppose the hardest thing at the moment is knowing that I value her frinedship alot more than she values mine.. solution.. as always, other women I suppose so I dont care about her so much. So its off to the park now.. although I'm struggling to see how I'm going to get talking to women sitting sunbathing and reading a book.....

 

[becker]

It certainly weighs in your favor that the BF lives so far away. Long distance relationships are the easiest to break off, since you have the advantage of out-of-sight, out-of-mind. I broke off a relationship I had for a year because it was long distance, and those just totally suck unless you're with someone and both of you are sure that you're in it for the long haul.

I'd just go for the girl if you're getting along so well. I know a girl now who I get along with, have a lot in common, but with a BF, but she doesn't even seem to want to do anything, so that makes it tougher. Plus, her BF lives here, so she spends time with him whenever she can. Different from your situation, but nevertheless, you should at least be able to hang around her, and if things develop, great, but a good girl "friend" is very hard to find, and is very useful if you want to talk, since girls love to talk more than guys.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

I'd be tempted to go for it if I was getting consistent signs that she wants to be more than friends but at the end of the day I'm just not.

Sure, I think if she was single and looking for a boyfriend I'd probably be top of the list, but she isn't. They've been seeing each other for almost 2 years and been doing the long distance thing for about 9 months.
I dont think she'd cheat on her boyfriend unless their relationship was really on the rocks, but I've no idea if it is or isn't because she barely talks about him so I don't know if she'd talk to me about problems they were having or not. Appropriately she wasn't around for my birthday because she was going to see her boyfriend. serves me right for being a lazy b*stard and not making plans earlier I guess.

About a month ago a group of us went out for someones birthday, and (not through a particular conscious effort on my part) me and this girl spent the majority of the evening together, towards the end I had the following conversation with a guy who was a friend visiting the girl whos birthday it was.

him: so, what do you think of 'the girl' then?
me: (pause) why are you asking me that question?
him: well, I noticed the two of you have spent almost the whole evening together.
me: ah.. (sigh) I'm thinking.. its a shame she's already got a boyfriend
him: right.. I asked her the same question about you too.
me: really! so.. what did she say then?
him: I cant tell you that.
me: go on!
him: no.
me: (pause) so is it that obvious then.. that I like her?
him: oh I dunno, I'm a homosexual, I'm supposed to be able to pick up on these things.

admittedly I was pretty drunk when that conversation happened so I may not have all the words exactly right (ie dont read too much into them) and I cant remember exactly when he gave me the "I asked her about you" information.. still, gay guys supposedly never miss an opportunity to do some matchmaking so the fact that he wouldnt tell me anything suggests she probably didnt reveal anything positive. But anyway, if she wasnt pondering my suitability as a boyfriend before then at least she probably will be now (doesnt tell me anything about the conclusions shes coming to though).

As a friend though she's pretty good we do get on well, especially when alcohol is involved, and I cant think of any of my other friends ever that I could spend 8 hours chatting and drinking with without getting bored and wanting to actually DO something, shes the first close female friend I've had for a LONG time which is probably why I've become so attatched.
I've been told "you can always come and talk to me whenever you want" after explaining to her that one of the things I thought was important about a LTR was having a partner you could confide in about all your problems. And far from being an emotional tampon for her (one of the things everyone says is bad about having female friends) she usually seems willing to listen to me (although I've yet to arrange to meet her specifically to talk about a specific thing).. I'm just worried I may be becoming the 'nice' guy who she gives so much of her time too because of pity and not genuine friendship.

So, I'll try and stay mates with her, maybe try and flirt abit more but I cant see myself making an effort to seduce her unless I see some sort of signals from her. Unless I do something amazingly chivalrous to suddenly make myself appear like the best guy in the world I cant see her suddenly deciding to cheat on her boyfriend if I try it on.
Have to wait and see what happens, I think the best option is to try and put her out of my mind and find some other girls to interest me, if she starts to get jealous and then actualy flirts back alot great, otherwise its not worth stewing over. Its a shame we'll both be leaving uni in 3 months, I think given a long enough period of time I might be able to seduce her (although this is probably AFC "we're meant to be together" thinking kicking in), but 3 months probably isnt long enough so I'm not going to put all my energy into it.

Lastly THANKS guys for reading all this crap that I'm posting (this post alone contains material for about 3 seperate threads probably!!), getting my thoughts down really helps in sorting all the sh*t thats going on in my head.

 

[becker]

MrNiceGuy,

Probably the main problem in these kinds of situations is that a girl is never going to just dump her long-term BF out of the blue without a compelling justification (like some guy she likes much better). They need to have firm grasp of another branch before letting go of the other.

I hate these situations, and I'm sort of in a similar one right now. Trying to get out of it, but it's difficult since I sit next to the girl and see her 5 days a week.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Originally posted by becker
a girl is never going to just dump her long-term BF out of the blue without a compelling justification

Yeah, thats exactly the problem, I guess in her eyes its not worth the risk.. like I said, if she was single I don't think she'd think twice about starting a relationship with me, well or at least a few proper romantic dates, but as things are the only hope is that at least one of the following happens:

• Things start to go very wrong with her current boyfriend
• I, for some reason become alot more attractive/appealing to her

I'm not going to hold my breath though.

A shame you're stuck in a similar situation too. I really think the best thing to do is try and start dating other women.. although this is still difficult for me the times when I'm at least trying takes my mind off this friend of mine.

Lastly, regardless of everything I still value this girl as a good friend, the main problem is the fact that I feel she doesnt value my friendship anywhere nearly as highly as I value hers, I'm still trying to think of what I actually give her/do for her other than be there for her when she's bored (and how many of her other friends will she have contacted before she speaks to me??)

 

[Brasco]

I am in the exact same situation guys. I never call her she is always the one who calls when ever her BF goes to the city. Just last friday she invited me to go out to the bar to see her favorite band play. She asked me early in the week if I wanted to go and I said I would get back to her mid week sometime but I never did call her. I figured she wouldnt bother calling to ask me again because I never called mid week to tell her if I was going or not. It freaked me out friday when she called me while she was at work (she works evenings on fridays) to ask me again. This is how the phone convo went....

Her: Hi joe(not my real name)
Me: Hi kim(not hers)
Her: So do you know what your doing tonight joe?
Me: Well not to much tonight, tommorow night jay is having a party at his camp so I am going down home for that, but tonight is looking like a chill out with a few beers and maybe go visite a few people. But its not written in stone, hahaha!!!!
Her: hahahahahahaha.......well I am going to see matt tonight if you are interested, last offer hahahaha!!
Me: Sure why not, he is a good musician (blues band), what time you off work?
Her: Well I get of at 8:00 and then I can stop in and pick you up.
Me: I'll be ready!!
Her: I am so glad you can make it!! bye joe
me: bye kim !!


So anyway, I went and had a good time, we met up with a few of her friends at the bar. Since me and kim are just friends are started talking to one of her friends that was there with us. I could see kim was listening to every word me and her friend were saying and after awhile she jumped in the convo.

Like I said it is similar to what you guys are involved in. I just play it cool and remain a little mysterious yet outgoing. I still don't call her at all. I wouldnt be suprised if her BF is looking around for something better because he takes off every weekend for the city. I find that weird why I guy living with a chick(he just moved in 1 month ago because of a new job) would take off to the city every weekend. She never talks to me about him so I don't know what she thinks about him doing that, but she doesnt seem to mind.

 

[becker]

Brasco, I guess it's about time you chimed in! I see you're still dealing with that girl. How is that going? Hope you're making some progress!

 

[Brasco]

Hey becker,

To tell you the truth becker, I don't even know if I want her anymore. I think I lost interest in her, but she still invites me places every once in awhile, when her BF is gone. The other night we went to see that band and the friday before that she called to see if I wanted to go to town with her she had to go pick something up. I had to work saturday so I wasn't doing anything, so I went. I'll still be friends with her because she is a cool chick to hang with. The more I get to know her the more I just see us as friends.

You never know what will happen in the future, only the man up above knows. To tell you the truth I think if they do break up it will be him leaving her. He takes off every weekend for the city, I go to the city sometimes also and you only go out for two reasons, BARS & PU**Y, and he doesn't drink, well maybe a few just to look social. Him and her are two complete opposites, this guy doesn't drink, dead set against pot, doesnt smoke(thats a good thing). She tokes and smokes cigarettes. He told her she had a drug problem, a friend of hers told me that just the other day. He has no clue what he is saying, she does toke but she doesnt have a problem, by far. She owns her own house and has a good job. He is living under her roof because he doesnt have one.

So becker that is the situation at the moment, I can't see us as a couple. She is a cool chick, but i think maybe we hung around a bit to much and now I see her different. Who knows what will happen. I can tell you one thing, it won't be me making the first move. I think she knows that by now.

 

[becker]

So Brasco, you just suddenly lost interest? Was it just because you felt you weren't getting anywhere, or did her personality turn you off?

 

[Brasco]

becker,

Thats a very good question!! I don't think its her personality, she has a great personality and I never see her in a bad mood. We do see some things in a different light but nothing to turn me off. I think the problem is that she is laid back a bit to much, I feel like I am with one of the boys when I am with her. Hanging around her for all this time as just friends made me put her in the LJBF zone, don't get me wrong, if she droped her pants and spread her legs I wouldnt run away. Also I can't see her leaving him any time soon unless maybe I would make a move but I won't be doing that.

Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised if her BF is looking for a greener pasture. Just think about it, if you were living with a chick and happy, would you be taking off to the city every weekend, I know she works weekends but she is home at night. I am not waiting for it to happen because I don't really care anymore if it does. Who knows what will happen!! They might end up married for all I know. I wonder if I would be the best man, hahahahahahaha!!!!

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Its weird when things turn around and you just lose interest in someone,

with my most extreme case of one-itis many years ago, the girl just started ignoring me once she found out I was well... I suppose obsessed with her. Then there was a 3 month summer when I didnt see her cos of school holiday, and when I came back the next year within a few weeks we were best of mates and I didn't fancy her one iota, I guess the main reason was that I'd not really seen her for so long I'd had time to get over her, plus coming back was my first year of A-Levels so there were plenty of new women around to interest me that I'd not met before.

With this chick I've been talking about above, I keep thinking I've stopped caring so much, and then something happens to make me realise I still do. Through the afternoon drinking I was talking about, every now and then when she went to the toilet I thought about what I was feeling about her, and well, I thought things were fine, we were chatting and I was thinking this is fine we're getting along as mates I dont really need anything more... then at the end when she made a point of interlocking arms with me and we were walking down the street together I start thinking "this is nice" its something she'd do with her b/f and I'm thinking anyone we pass will be thinking we're b/f and g/f. and there it is, it set me off thinking about us getting together and friends just wasn't enough anymore.

In a way I wish she would talk about her boyfriend more and (if it really is the case, I'm not sure it is) make it obvious that shes happy with him, as it is I dont know enough about their relationship to kill off the hope that she might not be happy with him and therefore I might be in with a chance. Plus I keep getting these occasional things she does that probably mean absoloutely nothing but just maybe might be a sign that shes interested.
I've always been like that, I've fallen for alot of girls that I've initially been indifferent about because they've done something that could be a sign they're interested, in some cases I think I mentally brainwash myself to like them, I guess I'm a little too needy when it comes to affection.

 

[Brasco]

Seems like we are almost in the same boat MrNiceGuy. Except I really don't care what happens now, I already have another one in the works and she is SINGLE!!!! She is from my home town so if something would happen between me and the other one she would never know.

Its true what you say about aloofness. In the past few weeks is when I started caring even less about what she thinks of me. I noticed the last few times we hung out that she is using more kino, just light kino, little hugs every now and again, play taps on the arm. I didn't even call her back last week to tell her if I was going out to the bar that friday, she called me back that friday night to see if I wanted to go. I know when I invite a friend to go somewhere and he says I'll let you know later on in the week, it would be up to him to contact me if he decided to go.

The only advice I can give you MrNiceGuy, don't get your hopes up on this chick. Keep on playing your game and don't shy away from other girls because of this one. Show yourself around her with other girls, talk to other girls when she is around. Don't run to her when ever you see her. The biggest thing is, keep some mystery. If she asks you questions about other girls your talking to don't tell her nothing, work around the question like politicians do, hahaha. Chances are you already know all this.

 

[MrNiceGuy]

its tricky stuff.. on the one hand you need to think about what you're doing (i.e. would I be doing this if she was just a friend?) to stop yourself showering her with attention, but on the other hand too much analysis just drives you nuts.

I've been wanting to get in touch with this girl since monday probably (simply because I miss spending time with her, I know. I shouldn't) but I've managed to avoid temptation, tommorow, I may succumb to temptation and use one of the available excuses to contact her. She's always said if I'm bored to give her a call, but I know she doesn't actually expect me to call that often, I think in fact she may have said it as a test to gauge my interest (a sort of bait).

The other annoying thing is how she's affected my music listening, electronica, hip hop and acid jazz are now very much in, whereas alot of my guitar based music (specifically anything with lyrics relating to relationships) is out. The Norah Jones CD has pretty much vanished from my CD player due to all the romantic stuff going on, plus the fact that I noticed this girl had it when I was looking at her discman. pah..

Strangely, my best bet for another woman is one of her best mates, (and her housemate) who (last time I checked) was SINGLE, hurrah! Unfortunately I know shes also looking for a mature older man and I'm a few weeks younger than her but theres no harm in trying I suppose.. I just need to get my one-itis girl to invite me over to her place, or out on the p*ss with her mates so I get to see her housemate again.
Either that or I keep trying my luck with strangers in clubs...

 

[Brasco]

Sounds like your really into this chick. If your this struck on her chances are she sees this in your bodylanguage, it would probably show without you even noticing.

Does she talk to you about her BF or tell you about her problems? If she does dude, you have no chance, maybe just maybe you would have a chance in the future. Don't expect her to leave her BF for you. BUT, if she never talks to you about him and never cries on your shoulder then you never know what could happen. I wouldn't wait around if I were you. Like I said you have to show this girl that you don't need her. Does she go out to the same bars as you? If she does, flirt around with the girls there and make sure she is looking. If she is in to you she will be eyeing you up like a hawk when your talking to other girls. Show her your no AFC and you can get a GF when ever you want one (well at least make it look like that if you can't, hahaha). You have to make her want you, make her think that you are the catch and she has to go after you. I am not saying to act like jerk around her, but don't jump when ever she says your name. Good luck!!!!!

 

[MrNiceGuy]

oh yeah, I've got it bad...

I think when I first met her and realised I liked her it was a little obvious I fancied her, giving her too much unnecessary attention and so on.. now that we're good mates I've managed to scale it back to normal levels I think. Regardless I'm pretty much certain she at least has strong suspicions that I've got the hots for her, certainly she probably thinks I used too and maybe shes not so sure now..
Its weird, the times when I fancy her least are usually the times when I'm actually with her and gettting her attention, its when I'm not seeing her that she becomes this amazing godess.

On the boyfriend aspect she doesn't really mention him much or talk about him, certainly she never makes an effort to bring him up in conversation and from what she has said about him I get the impression she either does't care about him that much or she completely takes him for granted, or both. Of course that may not be the case but its all shes letting me see.

Lastly, I interestingly sort of talked to her about all this, she overheard me talking to a mate about how my flatmate had met this girl in a club and got her number but she had a b/f. So I explained to her my mates situation and asked her what she thought he should do.. she raised a number of key points

• He's not going to get anywhere, shes just playing with him
• Contacting her isn't going to help (although he had no way of communicating with her otherwise, bar randomly bumping into her on a night out)
• Men get attatched to women too easily and are therefore easy for them to play with
• the best way to get the girl to like him is to reman "desirable and aloof"

I didn't get her to elaborate on the "desirable and aloof" bit although I guess I should have done.. I dunno. it doesnt really make sense to me, seeming not interested at all surely isn't going to inspire the girl to start questioning her boyfriend, I can see that some women like a challenge, but if you're looking for an alternative to your boyfriend you'd want to leave him for someone that fancies you. Obviously they're not going to go for a clingy over affectionate AFC but surely they need to see some affection... Its the biggest paradox with dating, that women won't be attracted to you if you show too much interest but at the same time they refuse to ever make the first move.

I guess the point is to show that while you do find the girl attractive you don't desperately need her and you can do without her, hence being seen with other girls seeing other people and so on, that way she gets jealous and stops taking your friendship for granted..

I've managed to resist contacting her again, but I don't want to cross from being aloof into being just plain not interested at all. and i agree the best thing to do now, is stop hoping things will happen and concentrate on other chicks, that way I can get lucky with someone else plus probably increase the interest level of this girl.

 

[becker]

MrNiceGuy,

Definitely agree with most of what that girl said. I am in such a situation right now. Girls w/ BFs in general, though, are not as likely to just endanger their relationship by getting involved with other guys even on a friendly basis (unless it's strictly a casual thing where they see you in class, at work, etc. and nowhere else).

I think that jealousy can sometimes work wonders here, but it's difficult because causing too much jealousy can tend to turn someone off too. Double edged sword.