The time inefficiencies of game(from my perspective)

[Suave1]

The more I approach, the more time I realize I spend a lot of time approaching. The better I get, the more I realize how much I am working to get results. Let me explain.

Setting the stage: I am very young(22), but I would say I am very successful for my age. I go to college full time(3.7+ GPA), and run a business that netted me $105,000 this year. Despite all this, I feel like the time I spend on game is disproportionate to the results I am getting(as of now). I spend 20 hours a week on school, 25-30 hours a week on my business, and about 20 hours a week on game. Those 20 hours are divided between actually approaching, dates, and then writing/reading about the topic online.

I would consider myself intermediate at game. By tracking the numbers, I see I get laid approximately every 50 day game approaches. I know that the best get ratios around 1 and 15, or 1 and 10, but that is my ratio right now. Given my dedication to it, I would not be surprised if the average in the “seduction” community is considerably higher than mine. Maybe it isn’t though and I’m just not doing a good job.

Now to my point. I make about $100 every hour I work on my business. So hear me out.

Time spent approaching(10 min per)	50 approaches x 10=500 minutes
Time spent on first dates(45 min per)	5 dates x 45 =225 minutes
Time spent on 2nd date/escalating(2 hr)	2 dates x 120 = 240 minutes
Time spent texting(20 minutes per date)	5 x 20 = 60 minutes
Time spent texting girls that don’t go anywhere. I get a number on 1/3 of my approaches, so 50/3=16-5(dates)=11. (10 minutes spend on these girls.)	11 x 10 = 110 minutes
TOTAL TIME SPENT PER LAY	Approxmaitely 18.5 hours

Therefore, assuming I make $100 per hour, it ‘costs’ me $1,850.00 per each lay.

Noteworthy points on this calculation: 50 approaches to 1 lay can be drastically improved. If can get it down to 1 in 20, that would cut half my time off, resulting in a cost of $925 per lay.

Even if I get my ratios to god level, I will still be losing a considerably amount of money. This will only be compounded as I start making more money. Therefore, the purpose of gaming girls NEEDS to be greater than just getting laid in order to make the time-value equation better. I would say that, at my present form, the best things to derive from game are:

• Not giving a **** about rejection at all
• Learning to keep your emotions even keel when **** doesn’t go your way(girl ghosts you, stood up, etc)
• Learning to talk confidently
• Learning great body language

Failure to prioritize learning these results in a net loss in value from time invested.

This applies if you make less. Say you make $15 an hour. 18.5 x 15 = $277.

Therefore, if you focus too much on the end outcome in-game, which is sex, you lose the benefits of game, and the time invested does not yield maximum value. What does the forum think?

This is a post I wrote on my new blog, check it out here: https://compoundedprogress.com/2021/11/19/the-time-inefficiencies-of-gamefrom-my-perspective/

 

[DisposableBenchmark]

You have to measure the opportunity cost not in currency but utils. Sure you're spending $2k, but if you're not spending that each lay what are you doing with the time/money, are you consuming other pleasures? Are you buying hookers?

What you really need to do is to reduce your time per lay ratio, i.e. increase your productivity in game. As you say, the more income you earn, the greater the income lost not earning that income. Only way to avoid that is to get better game.

Or buy hookers.

 

[Velasco]

the purpose of gaming girls NEEDS to be greater than just getting laid in order to make the time-value equation better.

Theres multiple purposes beyond getting laid that make the time-value worth it.

One is to have multiple casual relationships going. So that when you want sex, you can text girl A. When you don't feel like banging girl A, bang girl B. Girl C. Etc

Getting a girl to be in a causal relationship with you is a function of going after broken girls.

Girls that don't roll in social circles with high value guys. Meaning their social circle is filled with girls (around or below their looks level) and gays/loser (beta) guys) And sh1tty/repressed childhood. Which contributes to them feeling lonely most of the time. These will be more than willing to accept being in a causal relationship with you because it's better than the alternative of being alone without a high value guy (you. At least the perception of being one).

You can find these girls anywhere. Online, daygame, nightgame. However I'd say daygame is worst out of these categories. Only because there is really no "arena" where these girls go to. Online, you are pretty much a broken girl by default simply because a girl who has access to high value guys, grew up normal, would see no need to entertain strangers online. for nightgame, bars and clubs are a place they can go to with their one or two friends. Only not all of them are there (including online) because they are or open to going home with someone.

And 2, there is also just wanting to bang without the expectation of beyond a ONS. That can be accomplished by targeting tourist girls. And going where they go.

 

[Tilex]

Hey your link doesn't work.
I wanted to see your other blog posts, but the link you posted goes to a log in screen.

 

[Suave1]

You have to measure the opportunity cost not in currency but utils. Sure you're spending $2k, but if you're not spending that each lay what are you doing with the time/money, are you consuming other pleasures? Are you buying hookers?

What you really need to do is to reduce your time per lay ratio, i.e. increase your productivity in game. As you say, the more income you earn, the greater the income lost not earning that income. Only way to avoid that is to get better game.

Or buy hookers.

You're spot on, getting the ratio down is what is needed.

Hey your link doesn't work.
I wanted to see your other blog posts, but the link you posted goes to a log in screen.

Updated the link. That's my first blog post ever, I'm going to start doing more.

Theres multiple purposes beyond getting laid that make the time-value worth it.

One is to have multiple casual relationships going. So that when you want sex, you can text girl A. When you don't feel like banging girl A, bang girl B. Girl C. Etc

Getting a girl to be in a causal relationship with you is a function of going after broken girls.

Girls that don't roll in social circles with high value guys. Meaning their social circle is filled with girls (around or below their looks level) and gays/loser (beta) guys) And sh1tty/repressed childhood. Which contributes to them feeling lonely most of the time. These will be more than willing to accept being in a causal relationship with you because it's better than the alternative of being alone without a high value guy (you. At least the perception of being one).

You can find these girls anywhere. Online, daygame, nightgame. However I'd say daygame is worst out of these categories. Only because there is really no "arena" where these girls go to. Online, you are pretty much a broken girl by default simply because a girl who has access to high value guys, grew up normal, would see no need to entertain strangers online. for nightgame, bars and clubs are a place they can go to with their one or two friends. Only not all of them are there (including online) because they are or open to going home with someone.

And 2, there is also just wanting to bang without the expectation of beyond a ONS. That can be accomplished by targeting tourist girls. And going where they go.

That's really insightful.

 

[Serenity]

Your calculation works if you don't enjoy the process or enjoy it about as much as working. If you really like doing it then it's a very different calculation.

Like the difference between work and a hobby, one earns you money while the other you spend money on for your own enjoyment.

If you feel like doing game is equivalent to doing the work for $1850, if it is that unpleasant then I suggest you just quit.

 

[Suave1]

Your calculation works if you don't enjoy the process or enjoy it about as much as working. If you really like doing it then it's a very different calculation.

Like the difference between work and a hobby, one earns you money while the other you spend money on for your own enjoyment.

If you feel like doing game is equivalent to doing the work for $1850, if it is that unpleasant then I suggest you just quit.

I enjoy getting to know girls, but I don't enjoy the rejection that surrounds game. That's something I'm working on removing, which is also another way of deriving value from approaching girls.

 

[Plinco]

Setting the stage: I am very young(22), but I would say I am very successful for my age. I go to college full time(3.7+ GPA), and run a business that netted me $105,000 this year.

Good job on that!

 

[Serenity]

I enjoy getting to know girls, but I don't enjoy the rejection that surrounds game. That's something I'm working on removing, which is also another way of deriving value from approaching girls.

Wouldn't be a game if you never lose, but we all keep playing anyways.

You'll never remove rejection.

Deriving value from women in any way is a bad idea.

 

[EyeBRollin]

You have a bright future young man.

If I were in your shoes, I’d find a good gal now. When you hit 30+, you’ll be on the richer side. The more money you make, the easier it is to get laid but the is harder it is to find good women that aren’t gold digging bvtches. Find her while you are still on the come up.

 

[Zimbabwe]

The better you get from game the more efficient you become, from experience you learn to be more charismatic,confident and better at recognising subtle signs of attraction.

Like any skill, practice makes perfect.

 

[SargeMaximus]

Direct, “my way or the highway” online dating is my solution. After over 200 approaches in a few years back in my mid twenties and still being a virgin, once I made that switch and got laid easily, I wouldn’t go back. No time for that approaching nonsense especially when it doesn’t win you any points with the women. Like none. I’d have girls tell me how impressed they were that I approached them while politely telling me they had a bf or weren’t interested.

the only reason I approached was I thought my balls had value. Turns out they don’t. So I do things the efficient way now.

 

[CAPSLOCK BANDIT]

You have a bright future young man.

If I were in your shoes, I’d find a good gal now. When you hit 30+, you’ll be on the richer side. The more money you make, the easier it is to get laid but the is harder it is to find good women that aren’t gold digging bvtches. Find her while you are still on the come up.

Due to agency interfacing with modern dating, I would suggest a woman that isn't financially committed isn't committed at all, the gold digging phase is extremely prolonged, I know women in their 50s still doing it and the simps line up cash in hand.

I would suggest 30s is just too early for the modern woman to settle today, there is societal pressure but she's still gonna do what she wants.

 

[EyeOnThePrize]

The more I approach, the more time I realize I spend a lot of time approaching. The better I get, the more I realize how much I am working to get results. Let me explain.

Setting the stage: I am very young(22), but I would say I am very successful for my age. I go to college full time(3.7+ GPA), and run a business that netted me $105,000 this year. Despite all this, I feel like the time I spend on game is disproportionate to the results I am getting(as of now). I spend 20 hours a week on school, 25-30 hours a week on my business, and about 20 hours a week on game. Those 20 hours are divided between actually approaching, dates, and then writing/reading about the topic online.

I would consider myself intermediate at game. By tracking the numbers, I see I get laid approximately every 50 day game approaches. I know that the best get ratios around 1 and 15, or 1 and 10, but that is my ratio right now. Given my dedication to it, I would not be surprised if the average in the “seduction” community is considerably higher than mine. Maybe it isn’t though and I’m just not doing a good job.

Now to my point. I make about $100 every hour I work on my business. So hear me out.

Time spent approaching(10 min per)	50 approaches x 10=500 minutes
Time spent on first dates(45 min per)	5 dates x 45 =225 minutes
Time spent on 2nd date/escalating(2 hr)	2 dates x 120 = 240 minutes
Time spent texting(20 minutes per date)	5 x 20 = 60 minutes
Time spent texting girls that don’t go anywhere. I get a number on 1/3 of my approaches, so 50/3=16-5(dates)=11. (10 minutes spend on these girls.)	11 x 10 = 110 minutes
TOTAL TIME SPENT PER LAY	Approxmaitely 18.5 hours

Therefore, assuming I make $100 per hour, it ‘costs’ me $1,850.00 per each lay.

Noteworthy points on this calculation: 50 approaches to 1 lay can be drastically improved. If can get it down to 1 in 20, that would cut half my time off, resulting in a cost of $925 per lay.

Even if I get my ratios to god level, I will still be losing a considerably amount of money. This will only be compounded as I start making more money. Therefore, the purpose of gaming girls NEEDS to be greater than just getting laid in order to make the time-value equation better. I would say that, at my present form, the best things to derive from game are:

• Not giving a **** about rejection at all
• Learning to keep your emotions even keel when **** doesn’t go your way(girl ghosts you, stood up, etc)
• Learning to talk confidently
• Learning great body language

Failure to prioritize learning these results in a net loss in value from time invested.

This applies if you make less. Say you make $15 an hour. 18.5 x 15 = $277.

Therefore, if you focus too much on the end outcome in-game, which is sex, you lose the benefits of game, and the time invested does not yield maximum value. What does the forum think?

This is a post I wrote on my new blog, check it out here: https://compoundedprogress.com/2021/11/19/the-time-inefficiencies-of-gamefrom-my-perspective/

You've quantified the process but not your goals. Do you want a wife? Make a power couple? Hippie open relationship? Or just up the notch count?Depending on your goals my advice would be completely different.

I had a similar situation a few years ago and decided random lays are fine until I find someone I'm willing to invest in for a family.

To make game easy, pick up some hobbies that have the type of women you like; yoga classes, dance classes, gymnastics, etc. Worst case scenario you've invested time into a beneficial skill.

Either way, focus on expanding your network and influence first. It sounds like you go for the kill quick, get rejected then move on. Be patient, let women discover your value through how you carry yourself. Let them wonder why you're not thirsty. The ones smart enough to detect your success and then work to support you in it are the ones that deserve you.

Cultivate a few circles with women that you keep on stand by. That is, women that would probably sleep with you if you made a move. The ones that don't let your standby upset them are gold. Let them connect you with their friends. Go out, be chill, connect, smile, and you'll be beating em off with a stick.

You understand your worth, now let your behavior ooze that high value and it'll be effortless.

 

[metalwater]

ensure to set up your net worth financially so that if you do not want to hassle money later you don't have to. if you don't know how hire someone to help.

you just made a logical case for paying for sex. because you can earn more in the same time as it takes to game women, it is financially more efficient to just pay a woman and then be done with her until you want her again.

just to put a wrench in your idea.. imagine if you had a woman with you that was 100% with you and HELPING you do better and also contributing to your business. that would mean not much time invested in gaming and a possibly a huge increase in your income while getting laid as often as you want.

 

[Çharismo]

@Suave1

It’s good that you are putting more thought behind what you are doing especially in terms of finances and how valuable your time is but you are putting way too much pressure on yourself. Approaching and talking to women is supposed to be a fun process…sure there are some crazy ones out there but if you put a monetary value on approaching women it will be hard for you to not look at it as a chore. Rather than going with the flow and gaining experience (which is what you need to be doing considering your age) your making this into a full time job and counting how many hours your clocking in which is not healthy.

If you have a full life meaning, hobbies, work and school…approaching women shouldn’t stress you out neither should you even give a fu#k about most women until unless they prove they are worth your time and check off the list of things you expect out of them. I understand that you want to get good at the “game”…(which you will if you stick to it and you are way ahead of the curve in my opinion which is good) but your stressing yourself out by measuring it in terms of metrics and numbers. Don’t prioritize approaching women and clocking a certain amount of hours as something you have to do. Approaching women or people in general should be an extension of your life and something that you do while living your life. Don’t treat it like a full time job because if that’s the case than you will be working for free and wasting a lot of time. Don’t put so much pressure on yourself and don’t expect to not lose at something when your trying to get good. It’s part of the process so enjoy the journey.

 

[SW15]

In terms of methods for meeting women, both app swiping and cold approaching are generally time inefficient even when effective (you get sex out of the effort). The efficiencies kick in later.

If you're trying to calculate your cost per instance of sex, realize that the first instances of sex with a new woman are going to be your highest cost lays. You have to factor in all the failed approaches, failed dates, and time spent swiping/texting (if applicable) into that calculation.

Extended interactions is where you reduce your cost per bang. If you keep the same woman in your life for a while, there are less costs. Courting costs are the highest costs for a while until you start spending on expensive gifts for a long term girlfriend. Relationship maintenance costs are often lower than courting costs if the sex frequency is high enough.

The sweet spot of efficiency on cost per lays is often around 4 months to 2 years in.

Extended, non-marital relationships is where the greatest efficiency is. When a marriage fails, you end up not banging her and paying her for past bangs, ruining the efficiencies from earlier in the relationship. New relationships have high courting costs due to the inefficiencies in the early stages of dating.

 

[Suave1]

Thank you all for your thoughts and input.

You have a bright future young man.

If I were in your shoes, I’d find a good gal now. When you hit 30+, you’ll be on the richer side. The more money you make, the easier it is to get laid but the is harder it is to find good women that aren’t gold digging bvtches. Find her while you are still on the come up.

I don't really know if I want a wife. A lot of my clients get divorces, and I see how they get absolutely hosed. Also, I get bored easily.

You've quantified the process but not your goals. Do you want a wife? Make a power couple? Hippie open relationship? Or just up the notch count?Depending on your goals my advice would be completely different.

I had a similar situation a few years ago and decided random lays are fine until I find someone I'm willing to invest in for a family.

To make game easy, pick up some hobbies that have the type of women you like; yoga classes, dance classes, gymnastics, etc. Worst case scenario you've invested time into a beneficial skill.

Either way, focus on expanding your network and influence first. It sounds like you go for the kill quick, get rejected then move on. Be patient, let women discover your value through how you carry yourself. Let them wonder why you're not thirsty. The ones smart enough to detect your success and then work to support you in it are the ones that deserve you.

Cultivate a few circles with women that you keep on stand by. That is, women that would probably sleep with you if you made a move. The ones that don't let your standby upset them are gold. Let them connect you with their friends. Go out, be chill, connect, smile, and you'll be beating em off with a stick.

You understand your worth, now let your behavior ooze that high value and it'll be effortless.

I would say you are right, but to take it a step further, get into circles where you are the alpha. EG you throw parties, you are a dj, etc. This is definitely the next evolution of my game for sure, but it'll take at least a year to get to that level. Probably longer.

 

[Suave1]

@Suave1

It’s good that you are putting more thought behind what you are doing especially in terms of finances and how valuable your time is but you are putting way too much pressure on yourself. Approaching and talking to women is supposed to be a fun process…sure there are some crazy ones out there but if you put a monetary value on approaching women it will be hard for you to not look at it as a chore. Rather than going with the flow and gaining experience (which is what you need to be doing considering your age) your making this into a full time job and counting how many hours your clocking in which is not healthy.

If you have a full life meaning, hobbies, work and school…approaching women shouldn’t stress you out neither should you even give a fu#k about most women until unless they prove they are worth your time and check off the list of things you expect out of them. I understand that you want to get good at the “game”…(which you will if you stick to it and you are way ahead of the curve in my opinion which is good) but your stressing yourself out by measuring it in terms of metrics and numbers. Don’t prioritize approaching women and clocking a certain amount of hours as something you have to do. Approaching women or people in general should be an extension of your life and something that you do while living your life. Don’t treat it like a full time job because if that’s the case than you will be working for free and wasting a lot of time. Don’t put so much pressure on yourself and don’t expect to not lose at something when your trying to get good. It’s part of the process so enjoy the journey.

My man! Yep, it's supposed to be fun I agree. I feel like having an approach buddy would make it better but there is literally no one my age that does this sort of thing(at least where I go to school).

Thank you to those that said I'm doing good for my life. I struggle a lot, and work really hard, but the work yields results. I feel like if I take the same focus from work to girls, in a year I'll be an apex predator. Who knows - only one way to find out.

 

[SW15]

I am very young(22),

Are you 22 or 29? Your profile says you are 29.

I don't really know if I want a wife. A lot of my clients get divorces, and I see how they get absolutely hosed. Also, I get bored easily.

I would say you are right, but to take it a step further, get into circles where you are the alpha. EG you throw parties, you are a dj, etc. This is definitely the next evolution of my game for sure, but it'll take at least a year to get to that level. Probably longer.

Figuing out a goal would be a good thing. I'm impressed you can clients for whatever it is that you do at 22. Even operating your own business at 29 is good.

I like your idea of getting into circles as an alpha.