The thing that is really lacking here...

[Wyldfire]

Is specific advice, support and methods teaching guys how to have successful relationships. It's painfully obvious that most of the DJs don't have actual LTR skills because most are very quick to advise a fellow DJ to "Next" a girl over even the most minor of things. This is not good. People NEED practice with relationships if they want to hold onto a quality woman for the long haul. All the pick up and seduction techniques in the world just aren't going to make a difference if a guy doesn't know how to have a relationship, communicate, cooperate and adjust the DJ tactics to be able to have a healthy relationship. I think if there were a forum just for this facet of DJ-dom (including an eventual LTR Bible) it would eliminate a lot of the paranoia associated with all those "What to I do about my girlfriend?" posts, the guys would learn the important tools necessary to maintain a relationship and there would be more helpful advice when a guy is having some minor problem with a relationship. There are other solutions to conflict besides running away or quitting...especially when the problem is due to either a breakdown in communication or a guy not knowing he needs to tone down some of the initial DJ "rules" as the relationship progresses or he is going to end up sabotaging the relationship.

Just a thought.

 

[Neophyte]

Wyldfire, that's a good idea. We could use at least one extra chapter dedicated to this subject matter. Not for a beginning relationship, because that would only require one to keep on doing what it took to seduce the girl. Tips for when you're more then a few months in a "steady" relationship would be great! Especially to keep some nasty effects like boreness and avoid huge arguments, etc. stuff like that.

ONe problem though... you know I've got myself into 2 really serious LTRs in my entire life until now, being single for a whole year now. (LTR) Tips would require a combined effort, because I can't imagine someone being in more than 10 or 15 LTR's for years. One could tell his experiences and tips, but that would only count for his past relations.

Then there is the sarcasm of an LTR... because when an LTR ends, it'll create tips like "If only I had done this or that in a better way, then ..." Tips being just assumptions would last long to help one out.

Cheers,
Neo

[This message has been edited by Neophyte (edited 02-23-2002).]

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Neophyte:
Wyldfire, that's a good idea. We could use at least one extra chapter dedicated to this subject matter. Not for a beginning relationship, because that would only require one to keep on doing what it took to seduce the girl. Tips for when you're more then a few months in a "steady" relationship would be great! Especially to keep some nasty effects like boreness and avoid huge arguments, etc. stuff like that.

ONe problem though... you know I've got myself into 2 really serious LTRs in my entire life until now, being single for a whole year now. (LTR) Tips would require a combined effort, because I can't imagine someone being in more than 10 or 15 LTR's for years. One could tell his experiences and tips, but that would only count for his past relations.

Then there is the sarcasm of an LTR... because when an LTR ends, it'll create tips like "If only I had done this or that in a better way, then ..." Tips being just assumptions would last long to help one out.

Cheers,
Neo

[This message has been edited by Neophyte (edited 02-23-2002).]

All I know is that there NEEDS to be something. The very few things that are posted get buried under all the repetitive topics and are almost impossible to find, even using search. The term is used too much in unrelated posts, ya know.

 

[Synthesis]

Wyldfire, just out of curiosity, what are you personally getting out of this website?

Are you trying to see things from the male perspective?

Are you looking to educate males on the proper way of doing things?

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by Synthesis:
Wyldfire, just out of curiosity, what are you personally getting out of this website?

Are you trying to see things from the male perspective?

Are you looking to educate males on the proper way of doing things?

I'm already able to see things from a man's point of view, so that has nothing to do with it.

I do think there are some areas here that could use some improvement and/or tweaking. I've been pretty vocal about those things, so I don't think it's any secret what they are.

For the most part, I like discussion forums, I feel that I have information to share that will be benefitial to some people and the topics interest me.

That about wraps it up.

 

[ACTION]

Originally posted by Wyldfire:
Is specific advice, support and methods teaching guys how to have successful relationships.

So You do it, then!

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by ACTION:
So You do it, then!

Actually, that's what I have been trying to do. My advice is more geared towards solving the minor problems rather than just nexting someone. Not the big issues, but the minor things that could be easily worked out and are normal in a relationship. However, I'm usually told it is "AFC" advice since it encourages even a minimal amount of effort.

 

[Anson]

Great idea, Wyldfire. I've been noticing that nearly all of the information here is either for how to get a woman into bed or how to act during the dating time, before the LTR. And even worse, I don't think the newbies even know that the information is not for LTR, it's for short-time attraction.

It's good to keep the "DJ attitude" even in an LTR, but there are some techniques that I propably wouldn't use in an LTR. Meanwhile, things that Wyldfire mentioned are not being mentioned at all in the advices that are given, though they are just as important as the attitude or the techniques in an LTR.

Unfortunately I haven't really been in an LTR yet, so I personally wouldn't be able to post any help on the subjects, but it would be great if those who have experience on the subject would start posting some of their thoughts and experiences about LTR's.

 

[dead_romeo]

I'm already able to see things from a man's point of view,

so tell me what I'm thinking , tell us all wtf we're thinking.....if you can see the male perspective so goddamm clearly, you wouldn't be ranting about "change this & add that" alla time.

It's painfully obvious that most of the DJs don't have actual LTR skills

Really, how many have you been with??? NONE.

...very quick to advise a fellow DJ to "Next" a girl over even the most minor of things. This is not good.

No shyte it's not good; personally speaking the day women learn that first is the day I would consider providing the same courtesy.

....leave it be woman, I'm here to better myself first and foremost, getting more women is just a bonus......

------------------
"Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it-what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellow men. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone." Carlos Castaneda - The Fire From Within

"Liquor in the front, poker in the back" dead_romeo

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by dead_romeo:
I'm already able to see things from a man's point of view,

so tell me what I'm thinking , tell us all wtf we're thinking.....if you can see the male perspective so goddamm clearly, you wouldn't be ranting about "change this & add that" alla time.

It's painfully obvious that most of the DJs don't have actual LTR skills

Really, how many have you been with??? NONE.

...very quick to advise a fellow DJ to "Next" a girl over even the most minor of things. This is not good.

No shyte it's not good; personally speaking the day women learn that first is the day I would consider providing the same courtesy.

....leave it be woman, I'm here to better myself first and foremost, getting more women is just a bonus......

Not change...add to in order to make it better so that ALL the guys who come here can find the help they're looking for. There have been plenty of guys who have also made mention of this issue.

Four of my five relationships have been with "Natural DJs" and the only one who really knew how to have a relationship had 3 years of AA behind him before I met him. Prior to the AA involvement he didn't do well in relationships either.

 

[dead_romeo]

You love cutting & pasting don't you?

You're into natural DJ's and hope desperately to change them?? Yet you date them exclusively even considering a poor success ratio.


ALL the guys will NEVER get help from this site. There will always be AFC's not willing to change because it's not their time or because they haven't had their dikks knocked in the dirt often enough.

------------------
"Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it-what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellow men. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone." Carlos Castaneda - The Fire From Within

"Liquor in the front, poker in the back" dead_romeo

[This message has been edited by dead_romeo (edited 03-05-2002).]

 

[SoSuave.com]

Although it would be great to have an active LTR board, I can't see it happening. It would most likely be dead as there are very few LTR questions posted in the main discussion forum.

The problem is that the fewer posts a forum gets, the fewer people read that forum. So LTRGUY posts a question in the LTR forum and gets 2 or 3 replies. But if he had posted that same question in the DJD forum he would have maybe gotten 10 or 20 replies.

That's how it was with Bars & Clubs which is why I got rid of that forum.

Of course, if anyone has suggestions on how to make such a forum work, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by dead_romeo:
You love cutting & pasting don't you?

You're into natural DJ's and hope desperately to change them?? Yet you date them exclusively even considering a poor success ratio.


ALL the guys will NEVER get help from this site. There will always be AFC's not willing to change because it's not their time or because they haven't had their dikks knocked in the dirt often enough.

What? I don't ever try to change a man I'm with. If I can't accept him as he is (and vice-versa) I simply don't be with him. It's pretty simple. If you are wise about who you get involved with then you have chosen a person you like just as they are and don't feel compelled to change them.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by sosuave.com:
Although it would be great to have an active LTR board, I can't see it happening. It would most likely be dead as there are very few LTR questions posted in the main discussion forum.

The problem is that the fewer posts a forum gets, the fewer people read that forum. So LTRGUY posts a question in the LTR forum and gets 2 or 3 replies. But if he had posted that same question in the DJD forum he would have maybe gotten 10 or 20 replies.

That's how it was with Bars & Clubs which is why I got rid of that forum.

Of course, if anyone has suggestions on how to make such a forum work, I'd love to hear them.

Well, if you want to give it a shot on a trial basis I will make the effort to get some good topics going. I think a lot of the reason there aren't a lot of questions asked in the main forum is because those questions get responses that actually discourage others from posting additional questions about LTRs. Hell, I'd even offer to moderate it if need be (providing it wouldn't cause a riot, of course). I do think the interest is there based on recent posts in both the main forum and tips.

 

[Galactus]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't care even the tiniest bit about talking about LTRs. I never thought that's what this forum was about, and it's not why I'm here.

I think when the advice is to "next" a girl, it's because women walk all over men, and we're teaching each other not to let that happen. A good long-term relationship is the result, after a man has taught a woman to show the same respect he gives her.

If I ever get into a LTR, it's going to be because I used my common sense, combined with the DJ techniques I've learned here, not in spite of them.

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by galactus:
I guess I'm in the minority here, but I don't care even the tiniest bit about talking about LTRs. I never thought that's what this forum was about, and it's not why I'm here.

I think when the advice is to "next" a girl, it's because women walk all over men, and we're teaching each other not to let that happen. A good long-term relationship is the result, after a man has taught a woman to show the same respect he gives her.

If I ever get into a LTR, it's going to be because I used my common sense, combined with the DJ techniques I've learned here, not in spite of them.

It's not why you're here, but it is why some are here, and those people should be able to get the help they are looking for too.

In all honesty...if you find a "keeper" and you don't adjust the DJing, she is not going to stay with you. The majority of the advice here IS geared towards picking up many different women. A lot of that advice is worthless in a relationship.

On another note...mixing the LTR advice in with basic dating advice can be confusing for the newer guys. You also get some of the other guys discouraging LTRs altogether because they don't want to confuse those new guys and want to give "generic" advice that is geared towards dating many women rather than having a relationship with one.

 

[dead_romeo]

You're not in a minority at all galactus, I think alot of us here are not into LTR cuz we've been burned way too many times, and it's high time bytches got theirs.

In the nicest way possible ofcourse

------------------
"Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it-what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellow men. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone." Carlos Castaneda - The Fire From Within

"Liquor in the front, poker in the back" dead_romeo

 

[trickynick]

Wyldfire,

I know you and I have had our differences in the past, but I don't want you to think that I am trying to pick a fight with you on this. I just wanted to make some observations here. I think playing the "sex card" is necessary here. You are a woman, you are not here to recieve advice but rather you have chosen to give adivice. That is fine, but that being the case I don't think you are in a position to speak for what type of discussions should go on here.

You seem to be really intent on giving advice on building relationships and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I like giving certain types of advice too. Give the kind of advice you want to give to the people who request it. But the decision to create something like a whole forum dedicated to LTR's should in my opinion come from the people who wish to be recipients of such advice rather than those whose agenda is is to give it. If there is as much demmand for such a forum as you seem to think, why are there not more replies to this topic in support of it? Or more to the point, why was this topic not started by one of the "many" people on the board who wish there was such a thing?

In regards to your concern that basic dating advice mixed with LTR advice may confuse the newer guys, I really think that basic advice for dating and attracting large numbers of women is really what the newer guys should focus on.

It is the woman's job to convice us that we should become involved in a relationship with them, not our job to seek out a relationship. A worthwhile LTR can only happen when the guy has many other options of women he can be dating or sleeping with (or having an LTR with for that matter) and the newer guys for the most part have not developed the necessary attitude and seduction skills to be in this position. If a guy initiates an LTR from an AFC state, he is getting into the relationship for all the wrong reasons and he is likely to get walked all over like a lot of us(including me) have been in the past. He is probably doing it because he's so damn happy he has steady sex for once in his AFC life, not because he is in a position to be selective about what woman he is with.

------------------
You either own the game or it owns you!

 

[dead_romeo]

Well said nick.

------------------
"Self-importance is our greatest enemy. Think about it-what weakens us is feeling offended by the deeds and misdeeds of our fellow men. Our self-importance requires that we spend most of our lives offended by someone." Carlos Castaneda - The Fire From Within

"Liquor in the front, poker in the back" dead_romeo

 

[Wyldfire]

Originally posted by trickynick:
Wyldfire,

I know you and I have had our differences in the past, but I don't want you to think that I am trying to pick a fight with you on this. I just wanted to make some observations here. I think playing the "sex card" is necessary here. You are a woman, you are not here to recieve advice but rather you have chosen to give adivice. That is fine, but that being the case I don't think you are in a position to speak for what type of discussions should go on here.

You seem to be really intent on giving advice on building relationships and there is nothing inherently wrong with that. I like giving certain types of advice too. Give the kind of advice you want to give to the people who request it. But the decision to create something like a whole forum dedicated to LTR's should in my opinion come from the people who wish to be recipients of such advice rather than those whose agenda is is to give it. If there is as much demmand for such a forum as you seem to think, why are there not more replies to this topic in support of it? Or more to the point, why was this topic not started by one of the "many" people on the board who wish there was such a thing?

In regards to your concern that basic dating advice mixed with LTR advice may confuse the newer guys, I really think that basic advice for dating and attracting large numbers of women is really what the newer guys should focus on.

It is the woman's job to convice us that we should become involved in a relationship with them, not our job to seek out a relationship. A worthwhile LTR can only happen when the guy has many other options of women he can be dating or sleeping with (or having an LTR with for that matter) and the newer guys for the most part have not developed the necessary attitude and seduction skills to be in this position. If a guy initiates an LTR from an AFC state, he is getting into the relationship for all the wrong reasons and he is likely to get walked all over like a lot of us(including me) have been in the past. He is probably doing it because he's so damn happy he has steady sex for once in his AFC life, not because he is in a position to be selective about what woman he is with.

No offense taken. Currently there are two threads that were started by two different guys. One is in the main forum and one is in the tips forum. There were at least 5 regular posters who aren't newbies who are saying that they lack relationship skills and would like to see more LTR advice on the site.

I wasn't thinking about the new guys when suggesting a LTR forum. I was thinking about the regular posters who have been here awhile who are either currently in a relationship, want to be or just want to learn helpful tools and tips for when they do have one.

Look at NSS...he is in a relationship and if there had of been more discussion that he could relate to based on what is going on in his life right now he might have stuck around and participated instead of flaming and wreaking havoc. I can't speak for him, obviously, but I suspect that may have been part of the reason he got so frustrated. I think this is a great site for men...I just think it would be even greater if it went a little deeper than it currently does. I think less people would "outgrow" the site if it did go deeper.