The Red Pill has an ROI problem.

[Wilko]

So lately I've been using YouTube recommendations instead of Pandora for background entertainment - YMH, JRE, Gavin McInnes, Aaron Clarey, Entrepreneurs in Cars, Red Man Group - that kind of thing. This post is about the last two channels, specifically one idea they keep pushing, which I'm going to strawman the sh*t out of below:

"Become the best version of yourself."

Yeah cool, of course, who can argue with that?!

"[because] women are hypergamous and are only interested in high value (top 20%) men."

Oh, I thought I was doing this for me? But sure, I want sex and intimacy with a decent caliber of woman, and I think that's worth some level of effort on my end. And the effort we're talking about is nicely aligned with my own self-interest, so I'm down with that.

"incidentally, women's expectations go up as they get older, ruin their lives, and become less attractive mates, but it's ok, just pursue excellence and it will all work out fine!"

And we just crossed the point of diminishing returns. F*ck excellence, I just want a decent ROI. So what's the RMG's answer when the bargain becomes untenable for the top 20%?

"work even harder, become even better, provide even more value."

Who am I doing this for again? That really doesn't sound like it's worth the effort from the perspective of self-improvement or SMV. How about I just wait for a better deal.

 

[Sunnypoo]

It's not difficult to be the best version of you. It's also not difficult to hold the woman you are with to the same standards. It is a problem if either gender is putting in all the effort while the other isn't. I also don't believe in this 20% figure, how is high value even quantifiable when there are so many variables involved? What one woman considers high value another may not. Same goes for men.

 

[sosousage]

So lately I've been using YouTube recommendations instead of Pandora for background entertainment - YMH, JRE, Gavin McInnes, Aaron Clarey, Entrepreneurs in Cars, Red Man Group - that kind of thing. This post is about the last two channels, specifically one idea they keep pushing, which I'm going to strawman the sh*t out of below:

"Become the best version of yourself."

Yeah cool, of course, who can argue with that?!

"[because] women are hypergamous and are only interested in high value (top 20%) men."

Oh, I thought I was doing this for me? But sure, I want sex and intimacy with a decent caliber of woman, and I think that's worth some level of effort on my end. And the effort we're talking about is nicely aligned with my own self-interest, so I'm down with that.

"incidentally, women's expectations go up as they get older, ruin their lives, and become less attractive mates, but it's ok, just pursue excellence and it will all work out fine!"

And we just crossed the point of diminishing returns. F*ck excellence, I just want a decent ROI. So what's the RMG's answer when the bargain becomes untenable for the top 20%?

"work even harder, become even better, provide even more value."

Who am I doing this for again? That really doesn't sound like it's worth the effort from the perspective of self-improvement or SMV. How about I just wait for a better deal.

all women cant be with top 20% males. they lower their expectations as they age, IMO.

till 30 expectations go up

after that they go down

 

[backseatjuan]

 

[ShadowFenix]

The thing with self improvement is that women aren't the only return you get. You gain some serious quality of life gains, and women are just a side factor.

So many people can make changes in their life to make it stop being so awful, but not many people actually do it. That's why self improvement is pushed. Part of it is the mindset that you take on when you realize that you can take control of your life, and that return is almost instantaneous.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

MGTOW has become toxic, damn I hate that word toxic. They don't realize they've become the male version of feminists. Ams is correct in his assertion these men don't adapt. They are stuck and blinded in the first stages of red pill rage, some even getting sex dolls. I don't put that kind of value on women

 

[logicallefty]

MGTOW has become toxic, damn I hate that word toxic. They don't realize they've become the male version of feminists. Ams is correct in his assertion these men don't adapt. They are stuck and blinded in the first stages of red pill rage, some even getting sex dolls. I don't put that kind of value on women

I think it depends on what degree of MGTOW you are looking at. The absolute extreme MGTOW could be doing themselves a disservice,I suppose. But they aren’t the only ones. There are other more mild MGTOW who still fvck women and even have relationships, but protect themselves and navigate with extreme caution. Nothing toxic about that at all.

 

[PeasantPlayer]

I think it depends on what degree of MGTOW you are looking at. The absolute extreme MGTOW could be doing themselves a disservice,I suppose. But they aren’t the only ones. There are other more mild MGTOW who still fvck women and even have relationships, but protect themselves and navigate with extreme caution. Nothing toxic about that at all.

I'm mildly "MGTOW" I agree, but at the end of the day I don't care for labels. I'm a man before anything as the cliche goes and I as well as everyone else has the right to criticize the toxic subculture of MGTOW, sex dolls and woman bashing gets you no where.

 

[Serenity]

The red pill is just another way to deceive oneself. They're managing to fool themselves into thinking their way is for themselves while in reality it's still driven by an uncontrolled desire for women. That uncontrolled desire is THE cause of problems, the fact that they're willing to go so far women.

It is true that if you do yourself well it will most likely make you more attractive, but NOT if the driving force behind it is women, that is the single most unattractive way to go about it.

Thinking work harder, become better and give more is absurd if you actually do the opposite, slow down and actually think about it rather than go full speed ahead. You can translate those 3 statements to not working hard enough, not being good enough and not giving enough. What they do isn't anything other than trying to put a positive spin on their negative thoughts about themselves. Their so-called advice is demotivating as fvck, because from that you'll just realize you'll never work hard enough, never be good enough and never give enough.

With their line of thought you'll never be the best version of yourself, you'll never stop to appreciate how far you've come and you'll be stuck chasing an impossible ideal while feeling inadequate. Working harder will never work, we need to work smarter which means taking breaks and putting in the energy where it matters. It's not wrong to improve oneself, but not without accepting oneself, flaws included. It's fine to provide more value, but never ever neglect providing for yourself first.

You see, what they do is leave out a very vital component to successful self-improvement, that is self-compassion. With that you'll improve many times more for a fraction of the effort, and thus get ROI many times over.

What I'm saying is they're idiots.