The Pendulum Has Swung Too Far the Other Way Regarding "Looks"

[Aristippus]

Stagger. You said "But you are really just denying female hypergamy."

If you re-read the statements I made that you're referring to, it actually DOES cover hypergamy. I said a 5 can realistically get the 5-7's AND he can easily get the 1-4's. The man who is an 8 can get the 8's 9's and 10's, and can also more easily get the 1-7's.

Although my focus is on genetic equivalents and that was what I was talking about, the idea of hypergamy was built in to my statement as well. I just feel like it isn't worth focusing on (for the purpose of men getting better results) and if men feel they are all doomed to fail because they aren't in the top 10%, then there would be no use for anyone to try to improve their results when it comes to meeting women.

Of course, I believe first and foremost you should NOT live to impress women. And that women can be a fun addition to your life. They can also be a pain in the a$$. I do believe that the degree to which you're involved with a woman determines how much or how little drama you have to deal with.

And as far as Poonani Maker's comments on the dangers of divorce. Another classic example of how, the more involved with a woman you are, the more b.s. you have to deal with. The more drama you have to put up with. Think about it. One night stand- zero drama. Casual fling. Zero or low drama. Dating someone casually. Low drama. Dating for a few months. Some, but usually low drama. Dating for many months. More drama. Especially if you're both in an exclusive, boyfriend/girlfriend type relationship.

Further down the line. She starts bugging you to marry her. Live-in girlfriend? More drama. Wife? The highest level of drama and b.s. you'll have to deal with from that particular woman. You're spending all of your free time with her and are in the deepest level of involvement with her. Plus you've signed a one-sided agreement where she can receive financial rewards for bad behavior.

So that's one of my general rules i think you'll find true across the board. The less involved you are with a woman, the less drama you bring into your life. The more involved, the more drama you bring into your life. Even if you put her in her place and don't allow her to get away with it, just the simple fact that you're in the presence of it and having to correct it is adding drama to your life.

 

[Burroughs]

Faggot talk? I don't need to pay for sex. I can get sex any time I want, because girls actually want to suck my ****. You on the other hand..

:crackup:

You have no d!ck

you are either a femcvnt or a beta faggot

why?

because only femcvnts or beta faggots mock the institution of prostitution the way you did...simple...because ugly women like you are threatened with men having options.

that is what you did....so that is what you are :crackup:

 

[thevilittletroll]

i view looks like this...
as men we are attracted to certain things about a woman. some guys like tall, tits, ass, legs, hair color, so on and so on. evey guy has different likes and dislikes. same is true with women, they all like something different. having good looks as a guy is just one trait of many that women view as a factor. there are some women out there that will only date a guy with extremely good looks, but the reality is that is the minority of most women. and to be honest with you most of those types of woman are the most shallow women i've ever met in my life. and more times than not they are pretty high on the hot scale themselves. these are the same charachteristics you'll find in gold diggers. they are only looking for one thing.

good looks cant hurt but dont worry about it. girls car more about how you make them feel emotionally. if you have both its like the cherry on top.

 

[Stagger Lee]

Stagger. You said "But you are really just denying female hypergamy."

If you re-read the statements I made that you're referring to, it actually DOES cover hypergamy. I said a 5 can realistically get the 5-7's AND he can easily get the 1-4's. The man who is an 8 can get the 8's 9's and 10's, and can also more easily get the 1-7's.

But that is the opposite of female hypergamy. If a male 5 can get HB5-7, and a male 8 can get HB8-10's, then that is the complete opposite of females being hypergamous.

Although my focus is on genetic equivalents and that was what I was talking about, the idea of hypergamy was built in to my statement as well. I just feel like it isn't worth focusing on (for the purpose of men getting better results) and if men feel they are all doomed to fail because they aren't in the top 10%, then there would be no use for anyone to try to improve their results when it comes to meeting women.

Again genetic equivalents is the opposite of hypergamy. I'm not the one to say only the top 10% of men have any success with women. What I'm saying is if you are not in the top 30%, 40% or what have you, you might continuously fail with women. And even if you are within the bottom of the 30-40%, you will be working your butt off playing a numbers game to ocassionally pick up HB1-5 who aren't attractive and aren't interesting.

Of course, I believe first and foremost you should NOT live to impress women. And that women can be a fun addition to your life. They can also be a pain in the a$$. I do believe that the degree to which you're involved with a woman determines how much or how little drama you have to deal with.

And as far as Poonani Maker's comments on the dangers of divorce. Another classic example of how, the more involved with a woman you are, the more b.s. you have to deal with. The more drama you have to put up with. Think about it. One night stand- zero drama. Casual fling. Zero or low drama. Dating someone casually. Low drama. Dating for a few months. Some, but usually low drama. Dating for many months. More drama. Especially if you're both in an exclusive, boyfriend/girlfriend type relationship.

Further down the line. She starts bugging you to marry her. Live-in girlfriend? More drama. Wife? The highest level of drama and b.s. you'll have to deal with from that particular woman. You're spending all of your free time with her and are in the deepest level of involvement with her. Plus you've signed a one-sided agreement where she can receive financial rewards for bad behavior.

So that's one of my general rules i think you'll find true across the board. The less involved you are with a woman, the less drama you bring into your life. The more involved, the more drama you bring into your life. Even if you put her in her place and don't allow her to get away with it, just the simple fact that you're in the presence of it and having to correct it is adding drama to your life.

I don't want to be totally contrary, but I think it's erroneous to say on the one hand women are all drama and pain in the a$$ for relationships, but on the other hand they're all rosy when playing the field. No, they're the same entitled, stuck up pain in the azz in the short-term scene too. If women are flawed, and they are, then they are flawed all the time. The reason women can be monsters in relationships is fundamentally for the same reasons they can be monsters on the singles scene. It's 24/7 feminism.

 

[Stagger Lee]

I think Down Lows theory about the woman in heat choosing any guy MIGHT work in the absence of male competition, but the other 99% of the time, I agree with Stagger Lee.

In other words, if she was REALLY horny AND no other guys were at that party AND the guy was at least decent looking AND he made a move. Then I could see it. But at a typical sausage fest bar, she would likely trade up for a hotter guy.

My last lay was in Vegas just about two years ago. My hair was much more full then. I was probably a mid 7 in looks realistically. The ONLY reason I scored an 8 to 8.5 was it was the right place and time AND she had to leave to catch a flight in a couple hours. She didn't have TIME to be too picky and do the typical hypergamy crap. I was decent looking and made a move. I wasn't her "A" guy, but given her time constraint, horniness, and desire to get reamed before heading home, I would do.

After we did it, she said half joking and half serious condescending "You just totally scored." It was across between a compliment and a neg.

In other words, she knew that she had slightly relaxed her normal STANDARDS just to get laid. When there is a slight looks mismatch, somebody gets a better deal than the other. Usually it's the female. That time, it was me.

It was fun anyway.

My point being that sometimes women can slightly relax their looks standards, but its an anomaly not a typical thing.

Honestly you know where most all of my lays came from (and months back when I had thicker hair)? At the bar towards the end of the night when the better looking guys and girls hooked up, a lot of guys gave up and went home, and the venue was close to closing so it was either the girl hooks up with the best last guy unavailable or you go home. But these girl were far from hot, so I'm lowering my standards not to mention she's also drunk some.

But earlier in the night the attractive girls are either mostly shooting down guys one after the other who approach her, or she is constantly surrounded by males and her c0ckblocking female friends.

But I've noticed more recently the going in at the last minute doesn't work as good as it use to. Increasingly there are more and more males still around and less females. The females are just less receptive. More men are trying to pick up, and women are just retreating and increasingly increasing their looks standards for men.

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

I'm 5'8" and well aware of the bias. If I was 5'10" I promise you I would have never had the need to come to this site, or at least stay as long as I have. I actually agree with most of your points except I always know a few unattractive guys that date WAY up. And like you said, in the large majority of cases looks are #1. I never denied it. I have had an easier time even as a 100% AFC with zero game and self confidence than some other guys have had just on looks. My point is that if your game is VERY tight you can work miracles and I've seen it too many times to think its a fluke, or entirely related to some sort of insecurity on the part of the girl(sometimes girls like to date down).

Honestly, this whole debate is just due to personal experiences. If you havent seen mega players that have nothing going on physically(INCLUDING height), especially compared to the guys the chick could be dating, then of course you wont agree.

Remember that the individual woman decides what is physically attractive to her. Not you, not even her girlfriends. For example, just like you said. You had some 9's that were into you and some 5's that wouldn't give you a second thought because you're not tall. Imagine ones of those 5's was friends with one of those 9's. The 5 would wonder what the 9 sees in you, because to her, you're short and therefore "unattractive".

I already mentioned my anecdote about the girl with the tall fetish. here is a different one:

Girls in general like guys that are bigger (i.e. fatter) than them. Similar to height, it makes them feel "protected" on a primal level. On a pathetic and superficial level, she looks "smaller" in comparison to you, so she feels less fat. Seriously. Some girls are that shallow.

This other girl that I knew liked to date short chubby guys. Other people might consider them unattractive, but to her, they made her wet. That's what she found attractive. If a slim model hit on her, she would turn him down in a heartbeat. Because that's not what she finds attractive.

Again, careful about what you call "unattractive". What is important is what SHE finds attractive. I highly doubt that the girls your friends are with consider them physically unattractive. Your friends must have at least passed the "looks test" to get their foot in the door before making game relevant.

Maybe the girls were on the fence regarding their looks and their game pushed them over. I can buy that, that's what game does for you. Turns "maybes" into yes's. But if she's on the other side of the fence, throw your game out the window is all I am saying. You can't turn a "no" into a "yes". In this age of female entitlement, do you think a young girl is going to settle with a guy that she finds physically unattractive?

 

[Down Low]

Not to take sides, but guys who say "I never pay for sex" are lying to themselves.

Anyway, I don't know how my post could have been mistaken as saying that, at all times and by all men, 7% of women in the vicinity can be scooped up like turds in kitty litter. Didn't I say to isolate the target?

What are you guys doing in bars, anyway? If you want raw sex with low-quality trash, just drop a $5 bill outside the welfare office.

 

[bigneil]

Not to take sides, but guys who say "I never pay for sex" are lying to themselves.

Exactly. That's why men with jobs never have an issue with Prostitution.

Oh and what if you're just a huge success so women naturally love you? Then it's simply implied that you pay more. You have a higher car payment when you take her out for a date, you have a higher rent payment when she sleeps over, and you have a higher food and wine bill as you prefer quality. See Charlie Sheen.

:crackup:

You have no d!ck

you are either a femcvnt or a beta faggot

Yes, this is my exact determination. AlexDP is a frumpy woman who occasionally overacts the male role as in the "having her dlck sucked" example. There are perhaps no better examples of female tantrums on the forum than some of her replies to my posts.

@Mike32ct - does prostitution make it easier? No. It basically corrupts the whole market and all the girls become prostitutes, which normalizes such behavior, and gives them so much competition they can't score. How do you think I ended up with a sweet girl from a strip bar? She was lonely. This is an economic as well as moral issue. Such an environment essentially reverses the male/female dilemma for a price determined by the black market. In other words, it used to be that a guy would chase a girl, hoping to take her out and spend about $100 (each) on 2-3 dates and then score. Now, at least in a hooker-rich environment, a girl chases a guy hoping he will just give her the same $300 or so in exchange for the sex (which she uses to keep herself pretty and pay her rent). And it makes sense - why blow the money at a restaurant when you can just cook her dinner and give her the same money? It can be a great deal early on - like buying a new car for a monthly payment. It's whether you want to keep paying that for an older car that's having issues. And if you think the sex is expensive now, wait until it's free.

Note that the difference between a hooker (70% of strippers are) and a prostitute (many strippers are) is that a hooker hand-picks her men while a prostitute has a pimp who dictates who she sleeps with (she has no choice) and she has to service the pimp (that is, do anything for him) and he openly shares her with other women who he also farms out. He removes her need for a bank account or credit line. Obviously you don't want to date a girl like that.

 

[AlexDP]

Wow. I really pity you guys. Having to pay for sex and then telling that's the way to be a succesful man in life.. Jeez, how low can you go.

Burroughs, if you read my posts (I doubt you can read, but one never knows), you can see that I never said prostitution should be illegal. It is indeed a helpful tool for men such as yourself, who can only have sex when they pay the girl. In my opinion this is the ultimate surrender. It is also contrary to everything this site is about.

 

[bigneil]

"I don't pay for sex".

So let's say a successful man with $1M in assets marries a nice young girl, has sex 3 times per week for 10 years, gets divorced and gives her half. He would have paid about $320 every time he slept with her (plus legal fees) - not to mention HE ALSO PAID ALL HER BILLS FOR TEN YEARS. But women will insist he didn't pay for sex there. And wait: aren't women worth more than just sex anyhow? Well then, aren't men worth more than money? See? It's a wash there.

News to AlexDP: Since the caveman days, the men with the most resources (normally attained by virtue of their physical strength and productivity) attracted the most sought-after mates to procreate with (Natural Selection).

Marriage 1.0 worked worldwide to help allow Beta males to procreate, but Marriage 2.0 now enslaves men - even Alpha's, hence the black market (Prostitutes - the more ethical counterparts to American Women) are offering a release valve and (as always) dictating what things are really worth (adjusted for market corruption due to said Prohibition laws).

Want to be a slave? Do what women say they want: get a good job, buy a nice house, marry her, and have a child. Then, when the market tanks and you lose your job, if you can't maintain her lifestyle YOU GO TO JAIL.

 

[AlexDP]

"I don't pay for sex".

So let's say a successful man with $1M in assets marries a nice young girl, has sex 3 times per week for 10 years, gets divorced and gives her half. He would have paid about $320 every time he slept with her (plus legal fees) - not to mention HE ALSO PAID ALL HER BILLS FOR TEN YEARS. But women will insist he didn't pay for sex there. And wait: aren't women worth more than just sex anyhow? Well then, aren't men worth more than money? See? It's a wash there.

News to AlexDP: Since the caveman days, the men with the most resources (normally attained by virtue of their physical strength and productivity) attracted the most sought-after mates to procreate with (Natural Selection).

Marriage 1.0 worked worldwide to help allow Beta males to procreate, but Marriage 2.0 now enslaves men - even Alpha's, hence the black market (Prostitutes - the more ethical counterparts to American Women) are offering a release valve and (as always) dictating what things are really worth (adjusted for market corruption due to said Prohibition laws).

Want to be a slave? Do what women say they want: get a good job, buy a nice house, marry her, and have a child. Then, when the market tanks and you lose your job, if you can't maintain her lifestyle YOU GO TO JAIL.

Newsflash: I don't buy my girlfriend boatloads of stuff, I might not marry her, I do not pay all her bills, if we'd live together we'd share the rent and if we would get married, there'd be a prenup.

And she still wants to be my girlfriend.

You have to pay to have sex. I get that. It's just that I.. don't have to pay.

 

[betheman]

Newsflash: I don't buy my girlfriend boatloads of stuff, I might not marry her, I do not pay all her bills you pay some of them?... if we'd live together we'd share the rent and if we would get married, there'd be a prenup.

And she still wants to be my girlfriend.

You have to pay to have sex. I get that. It's just that I.. don't have to pay.

how long have you been seeing this free sex machine?

 

[bigneil]

You have to pay to have sex. I get that. It's just that I.. don't have to pay.

The Anti-Seducer Typology:

"The Tightwad" Cheapness signals more than a problem with money. It is a sign of something constricted in a person's character - something that keeps them from letting go and taking a risk. It is the most anti-seductive trait of all.

(Robert Greene, Art of Seduction page 134).

 

[TillTheEndOfTime]

*sigh* rational argument has turned into a flaming war.

I think it is time to lock the thread.

 

[AlexDP]

how long have you been seeing this free sex machine?

I don't pay any of them and I never will. Women wanted equal rights and they have them. That means I don't pay her bills. I've been seeing her for a year and a half.

 

[AlexDP]

The Anti-Seducer Typology:

"The Tightwad" Cheapness signals more than a problem with money. It is a sign of something constricted in a person's character - something that keeps them from letting go and taking a risk. It is the most anti-seductive trait of all.

(Robert Greene, Art of Seduction page 134).

It's not about cheapness. It's about not having to pay for sex.

 

[perseverance]

It's not about cheapness. It's about not having to pay for sex.

It's alright, Alex, I know where you're coming from. I wouldn't pay for a prostitute either.

 

[bigneil]

It's not just a matter of a guy paying or not. If she's half his age and/or he's new in the city, he might just be paying for an upgrade or what he was always used to in his prime. That's much different than a guy having to pay a girl his own age.

It's also not so cut and dry as "pays" or "doesn't pay". Does Charlie Sheen have to pay for sex?

A woman will put a man somewhere on this scale, based on her interest level, and he can move up or down.

1) Husband (Owns you)
2) Boyfriend (Loves you)
3) Lover (Has strong feelings for you)

----------------------------------------- GREAT WALL OF "FREE" SEX ---------------------

4a) Sugar Daddy ---------or 4b) Date (Likes you)
5a) Favorite Customer ---or 5b) Prospect (Is attracted to you)
6a) John -----------------or 6b) Friend (Tolerates you but is not attracted to you)

----------------------------------------- CAN'T EVEN PAY HER --------------------------

7) Creep (Turned off by you)
8) Loser (Ignores you)
9) Stalker (Avoids you)

In the middle section you have the pay route (A column) or the free route (B column). There is a vast difference between 4 and 6 (think of the difference between "I had a really good time" and "LJBF" - then apply that to a girl you are paying).

Also, since it's never free for a man to date a woman, the difference is only about $200 per date (if she meets you outside the club), and that makes the difference between you chasing her for sex and her chasing you for sex. That's worth something, especially when it's hot girls in their prime who are 20 years younger than you.

To take strippers across the border between 4 to 3 there is only one way: make her come.

 

[Mike32ct]

I'm not opposed to prostitution, but I do consider it a VERY last resort.

 

[Down Low]

What are you paying for? Good times and sex as a cherry on top? A mere hole to cvm in while a foul mouth blares insults? What?

How many times have you seen an HB5 in black tights without any skirt, or in a black minidress, sitting there fishing for attention, but rolling her eyes and making dirty comments about every man who passes? Same slvt, another day, she's "I wish I were in his class" and giggles about every man who passes. Was she ovulating? That was the only difference.

Even if you're an extremely handsome guy oozing smiles, if you pick her up on the wrong day, she'll be a dead fish in bed and b1tching at you to finish and leave money for the taxicab.

Men get pissed off at her antics on either day, and mentally put her on the sh1t list. 93% of the time, she's a cold b1tch. 7% of the time, she's a disgusting wh0re. Just as women provoke men to anger when they need fvcked, sometimes so much they reject the pvssy, it just shows that women are utterly incapable of subtlety and finesse even when it's obvious that a gentle hand would best serve.

What's more, if she's on the shot or the pill, that means progesterone, which makes her into a raving psycho b1tch maniac from hell. More like she's a cold b1tch 100% of the time after the first month of the school semester. She got laid, turned back into a man-hater after that heat, and took chemical abortifacients from then on.

You find out that, say, a woman in your class has a tattoo. Put her on the sh1t list. Another remarks that she's a "lezbian." Sh1t list. One showed up in a snot ring. Sh1t list. And so on and so forth. American women can't stay off the sh1t list. They're endlessly prompted by the media to sh1t on themselves.

Hardly any women can tell the difference between Burberry and Bieber, between a full Windsor and a one-in-hand, or between a man of conviction and a convict who was just released from jail for cutting a peek hole in the men's room stall. "Ooh, he's driving a Ferrari!" But is he actually a Radio Shack part-time salesman with his once-a-year rent-a-Porsche, or is he the valet looking for a parking spot? Women are programmed by the media to serve the trashy pretenders and wannabes who toss around money to get attention. Women act the fool for whomever is loud and obnoxious. You know, Hollyweird perverts like those on TMZ and Extra and the other several hours of "news" shows that "keep me informed." (This propaganda is what is bought for free by GE and Disney with campaign finance megamillions, taking money from one pocket and putting it in the other, with wh0res of every stripe kissing ass about all that juicy money being sh1tted around.)

To sum up, if you just resist the current fad of gutter speech and trashbin clothes, and don't dog the women the first minute you see them, you can pull off the sophisticated and aloof man of the world act. Women simply cannot tell the difference. THEN isolate and conquer the ones in heat.