The Fight Thread

[Oxide]

Anything that you read here is to be taken with a grain of salt. I hold no responsibility for anything you decide to do after reading this thread.


I go to school in USA, and here talking trash while drunk is a huge part of college. Here are some observations in my last 3 years. Add whatever useful information you have:



1. 99% of the time, the guy will not fight you. In america, it is all about who can talk the most ****. Puff out the chest and talk trash to the guy, but do not swing - that is pretty much every confrontation I've seen around where I live. But there is always that 1%, like last night for example, when a dude actually swung. Always be ready. Watch his hand, the punch can be very sudden and quick. The only reason I could dodge all three blows last night is because I saw the hand moving back, it was pretty easy to stick my hand out and make him miss.


Now, here is some fun psychological stuff people try that I see repeated over and over. These are also some ways to counter them. Like I said, use at own discretion.

A guy comes up, says "Were you talking **** about XXX?"
No matter what you say here,( short of "No, I don't even know who that is") it will no register. This guy came to make you appologize, so his logic through his interaction will always be [ I am defending her >>> Must make him apologize] Nothing else.

Anytime you will try to touch him, he will of course say "Don't touch me". This is normal. I have a friend who touches every dude who comes up to put him back. I mean would you expect a guy to jump on you like that and say "Dude whats your name!?" He would wonder wtf this guy is thinking - which is good.

You must focus on the guy and that guy only. You must drive YOUR POINT and INTERRUPT everything he tries to come up with. Here is what will happen:

a. More guys will come up to back him up. As soon as they step up, push them away slightly and say "This is between me and him". No matter what they say, keep it 1vs1 with the guy.

b. A girl will come up. Now 100% of girls have only one way to settle an arguement with a guy - they yell. They yell and scream and say a lot of dirty words. They try to intimidate you and scare you. Push the girl away and say this is between the MEN here. Do not pay her any attention, tell her to go take a hike.

When a guy starts talking ****, which he invariably will - a good technique is to cut him off immediately right away and say "I respect you, but do not SWEAR. Do not use swear words, there is no need" Now you cut his lexicon in at least half and he will have to think about his words.. which will also confuse him.


If **** comes to shove, here is your defensive stance - legs apart - right elbow covers the solar plex, the left elbow covers the left kidney. your fists are just lower than your face. Quick strikes at the CHIN, both hands, do not stop until he drops. Make sure there are witnesses so you can claim self defense.





Someone find those Gunwitch fighting posts and add more to this thread.

 

[Le Parisien]

Ok, I never had a "real" fight in my entire life, the latest brawl I had was when I was 13...

Why? Because I always had the wit to avoid trouble. Sometimes I just see it coming and sort of "dodge" it. Mostly I can talk myself out of trouble.

I have a few thoughts on the topic:

- Never ever show weakness, don't be scared, at least don't look like you are scared. Otherwise, it will only get worse. The other guy will only escalate more and more.

- Never ever give into provocation. By that, I mean never ever say "provocative" things to save your face/make yourslef "look good"/look "tough"/not show that you are scared, it will only put fuel on the fire.

- Points 1 and 2 might look conflicting, actually it's not. But sure it's very fine line to walk, you need to choose your words carefully.

- Finally, when you feel that the other guy is thinking about giving up, give him an "exit" that deosn't make him look too bad. That way, he won't be so desperate to start the fight.

For example, once at a club, some random black dude threatened to beat the sh*t out of me with his huge black football player friends who were with him at the club. I didn't know what was going on, I never saw him before. But I had to come up with an answer.

I was only with two girls I knew, and he was with his crew of big black dudes. What could I do? I basically talked myself out of it, can't remmeber the details anymore. Anyway it was stupid blabla. But not once I swore or called him names, because it would only make me end up in the hospital "thanks" to his friends at the end of the night.

At some point, he was saying something like "ok you buy me a drink and we are even, I let you walk back home safe tonight." This is where I understood that he was looking for a face saving way out. Then he was starting to count from 30 to 0. How ridiculous, isn't it?

I still knew that it was not over yet. If I gave in to that threat, he might get back to me later. So I said "I only buy drinks for my friends. You talk to me on this agressive tone, you are not my friend. Be nice with me, be my friend, I will be more than happy to buy you a drink. All right? Come back to me when you decide to be friends" Then I slightly walked away kind of facing him. The whole time, I was lookinh into his eyes. And everything was settled...

Ok, I was scared on the spot and that ruined my whole night out, but I played out pretty well for myself. The two girls with me didn't even notice that I almost got myself beaten up, I only told them a few days later.




If nevertheless the fight breaks out, a few things I learned in my Capoeira classes.

- Be on your guards, always. Protect your head and your abdomen, especially the head, the rest can take the hits, it will only hurt a bit.

- If you strike, always strike the head, make it quick and hard. I repeat, hit the head, the head, focus all on the head.

 

[Teflon_Mcgee]

- If you strike, always strike the head, make it quick and hard. I repeat, hit the head, the head, focus all on the head.

Good post. I disagree with this though.
If you can get them in the upper lip or nose then go for it. That's pain and a good way to end a fight fast.

However don't neglect other key points. Brachial-plexus tie-in. Solar plexus. Xyphoid process. Testies. Corotted (SP?) arteries. Kidnies.

These take much less force, are often more exposed than the head, are softer (you won't break your hand), cause a GREAT amount of pain, and will either end the fight or give you a huge upper hand.

 

[Oxide]

Alright good stuff so far. I definitely agree with giving a way out to a person. In fact lemme pull up a post on that:

There is a theory that 95% of humans have the natural reaction to run away in their subconscious, when confronted.
This means, that 95% of people WOULD NOT FIGHT if they had a chance not to.

Which leads us to a great way of diffusing a hot situation:
Give the Opponent a Loophole!
Give guy a chance to back down, without hurting his pride in the process.

So if some guy gets in your face because you spilled his drink and talks about a fight, simple say "Im sorry man, i will buy you a drink, if you promise to chat with me over it"

A good point by Newman

I don't fight I RESOLVE.

I;ve trained martial arts for 15 years - so I'm pretty confident when it comes to a fight situation.

Martial arts has shown me, that the best way to avoid a fight is not to get into one in the first place.... It's also taught me, that you never know who your opponent is or what he is capable of.

I also know, that if I get into a situation I will use lethal force. I will make sure the other person does not get up - because if he does, then you must move onto the next level of aggressiveness. I don't mean to say I will kill someone - but I will put them down and out of the fight should I need to.

One thing I will avoid is getting into a fist fight - one reason is this, as soon as your opponent recognizes that you know how to defend yourself, your opponent will up the stakes, because he does not want to get his a@@ kicked. So he may pull a knife, gun, grab a bottle etc. etc.

My point is this - if your going to get into a fight, make sure you are willing to do what is required to walk away. If you don't have what it takes, then don't get into it.

I use trips and traps - I use anything I can to walk out of there on my own 2 feet - ANYTHING.

Another thing I have learnt. 15 yrs of martial arts experience does not compare to 15 yrs street fighting experience. I'd always bet the guy whose been brawling on the streets for 15 yrs as opposed to the guy whose been training in the Temple.

Experience counts.

Now the intention of this thread is to fine tune the possible scenarios when it comes to confrontations.


Here is something I thought of today:

Guy gets in your face.. starts talking trash - so you calmly say.

"Hmm. I see, so I guess this is where we talk trash and puff our chests... and then I will push you back, and you will try to swing at me, and there is going to be a little boxing match... we are going to get dirty, sweaty and bloody... well I guess I am fine with that.. go ahead, you start"

Comments on above.


Most of the time, all people ask for is an apology. You don't even have to mean it, but if you apologize and they start saying "That's not good enough, do it better/again/blah blah" this is a HUGE red flag, watch your back and prepare for something to go down.

Also, acting crazy (hitting yourself, slamming things) might help ina tough situation.

 

[Bible_Belt]

As Mark Twain said, it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog.

When I had just moved to my neighborhood, my big goofy dog got loose and went up to say hi to the neighbor's wife. She ran away, and told her giant goon of a husband that the dog had attacked her. He came pounding on my door, and yelling at me that "you and I have a problem." I was so incensed with rage at him pounding on my door that I was standing on my toes, getting right back in his face. Speaking through gritted teeth, I stepped toward him, and made him back up so that we were out on my porch where I could manuever better. Standing in his face, I eventually gritted out a very coarse apology, and he jumped at the opportunity to retreat with a victory.

A day or two later, I saw a giant man next door who was probably 6' 4" and 280 lbs. I thought to myself that I had better not get in a fight with that neighbor; he's fvcking huge. As I was replaying the events in my head, and realizing that I was standing on my toes during the confrontation, I also realized that the giant guy was that same neighbor whom I had been ready to fight. It's laughable, the two of us fighting, but I was so mad that I was ready to jump on him like a monkey and bite him on the face. The guy is a big bully, and I get the feeling that maybe no one has ever stood up to him. He didn't know what to do. Now, two years later, he acts like my best friend. I obviously have earned his respect.

Bullies don't know what to do when you stand up to them. They didn't get to be bullies by other people putting up a fight.

 

[Oxide]

Some more great stuff from Gunwitch

FIGHT TIME!

What about when the **** goes down?

I get asked about this stuff all the time. Guys will be out having fun; no fault of their own and some guy will start **** with them. Some guys from other more flamboyant wild methods than my own have been pistol-whipped, punched out and slugged from behind.

I get asked a lot of this stuff cause people know I am a former bouncer, lowest of top level boxers and martial artist.

The first thing I always tell guys is to avoid places containing giant large crowds of drunk men. If you TOTALLY want to avoid fighting and bull**** or any chance of it you just have to stay out of bars and clubs in general.

Anyone who tells you there is no such thing as fights, “punkings”, and beatings at bars and clubs hasn’t been going in the WRONG places. VERY upscale places, or places with very good security don’t have a problem with this, the other 999 of 1,000 bars and clubs do.

One cannot be fully taught to defend themselves by text alone, but I can give you some strategies for if it comes up.
Right off the bat you if going in bars and clubs need to be in fighting condition of some kind. At least do some upper body weightlifting and hit a heavy bag/punching bag some to figure out your best power punches.

The textbook way to throw a punch isn’t what we are interested here.

In clubs when **** goes down you usually don’t have a lot of room to move, and grappling up on purpose is out of the question as if a guy already punched you, you want to get your licks in before security finally gets there and breaks it up as you try more complex grappling maneuvers. You also want to end **** fast and stun or knock the man out, in case security doesn’t get there rapidly and it goes “the distance” of a full minute or so.

Most knock outs are based on short arm powered punches anyways, regardless of what boxing trainers and martial artists will tell you. Putting your weight and legs and pivoting in to the punch is ideal, but not needed or as fast if everything else is in place.

First basic logic is you MUST knock the aggressor unconscious. A man shot in both legs, eye ripped out and in severe pain from a ball bat across the ribs can STILL kill you or hurt you. NEVER rely on a man to be pain compliant. Most bully types and fighters aren’t.

A sleeping man does NOTHING. Also if you use some stupid ass lock and break someone’s arm or ankle, or gouge their eye out you are gonna have to answer for it, even if they attacked your first.

So it is not as effective, more dangerous AND less socially/legally accepted to try to hurt someone.

“ Hit them in the throat, kick them in the balls, kick their kneecap out” are all fine ways to cause a novice fighter pain, scare them and make them give up.

They are also fine ways to scare the **** out of an experienced brawler yet leave him able and wanting to fight HARDER out of fear.

Ask anyone who advocates **** like this how many pissed of hardcore boxing gym training, 250 lb, sons of terd farmers they have used it on. Always none. You have no way of knowing if a man may be a pissed off boxing terd farmer, assume he is.

Kicks above the waist to the head in a club setting in spontaneous attacks are also no counter of any use.

SO we need a nice power punch and strategy for knock outs.

1. The best punches are straight out punches and long circular hooks using shoulder, bicep, tricep and chest muscles. PUNCH HARD. This isn’t a video game or Tv show you are watching, you gotta nail it hard. I cant count the amount of even big guys I have been hit by who punch like little girls cause they put no force of will and muscle behind it.

2.You need a TIGHT fist, as this is your weapon and if it is loose will bend the fingers in on impact causing less of a jarring motion to the mans head and possibly popping your knuckles our or breaking them for lack of full support from the other fingers. SURELY I cannot count the amount of loose fists I have been hit by that though thrown by powerful punchers weren’t tight enough to cause a good impact. Test loose hand vs TIGHT hand hitting an open hand and you will see the difference.

3.Punch THROUGH not at. Gonna go a bit for the science geeks here: A knock out is caused by a pivoting or snapping of the head strong enough that it makes the brain smash against the inside of, or even rub against the inside of the skull. This causes an instant overload to the nervous system and a shock like effect to the body. SO hitting IT does nothing, you must displace the head fast enough for the brain to touch the inside of the skull.

4.HIT THROUGH THE CHIN. Following principles 2 and 3 hitting the chin is best. The chin has a nice tuft of fat on it that will stop your fingers and knuckles from breaking, it also is THE best pivot of the body.

5.Ability to realize you are hit, not hurt is a massive factor also. When a guy hits you or shoves you or grabs you, realize this is not the end of it. Boxing, kickboxing, judo, jiujitsu are all great ways to learn than aggression does not mean submission by you, something the bar sucker puncher or agitator knows from experience.

6.Hitting a heavy bag/punching bag with “TIGHT, HARD, THROUGH, CHIN” in mind until you get a great sense of power from your hits is a key. Basically when you get shoved or take a punch instantly you think: TIGHT them fists, throw HARD punches, THROUGH the guys CHIN.

7.LEFT RIGHT LEFT until he drops or you do is also a must. You cannot hit the man and then stop, see if he is ok, or if it’s over, block incoming punches and resume. Anyone who tells you different has a stupid sensei or self-defense instructor or has been watching too much TV.

As I said actual training is far better than this strategy alone. People always ask me though and I can now direct them to this instead of typing the above over and over.

Also with nothing else available or no time to train the above will serve you better than anything else strategy wise if some terd farmer decides to attack you.

 

[thefonz]

When a guy starts talking ****, which he invariably will - a good technique is to cut him off immediately right away and say "I respect you, but do not SWEAR. Do not use swear words, there is no need" Now you cut his lexicon in at least half and he will have to think about his words.. which will also confuse him.

So you're going to tell a drunk belligerent dude calmly not to swear at you? Have you tested this? I'm willing to bet his first response will be "**** you, you listen to me.....". He's not gonna let you dominate the scenario that easy. If he's approaching you for a fight it's either because:

1. He's done this before. He's the tough guy in the room that will look for any excuse for a fight and you are the unlucky lottery winner.

2. You were being a punkass and probably deserve to get your ass kicked.

Either way he has it set out in his mind what he's going to do to you so you better be ready to defend yourself. "It's not the size of the dog...." quote is absolutely right. I used to have a friend (I cut him out) that started a fight at every party he went to and he basically won by intimidating the crap out his target. There was no calmness whatsoever, he was in your facing shouting, drawing EVERYONE'S attention, pointing fingers, jumping up and down.....bascially as high energy belliegerent as you can imagine all to psych the guy out. He was doing 2 things, pysching the other guy out, and pysching himself up for when he would eventually pumple him. That's how you win fights. The silent, calm, tough guy act NEVER works, at least where I live.

 

[DJDamage]

Listen to this guy: :trouble:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_cyPIJBjSE