The Fear of Approaching has Stages of Difficulty?

[h2o]

Okay, yeah, this is another thread on approaches. I know the topic has been killed to death, but I have a question on something that probably hasn't been discussed as much. And, yes, I did search...it really hasn't been discussed in this respect/detail.

Just about every approach thread/post/tip on here tells us to go for the number. I've done some approaches. I kept a journal up until mid-May to around 14 or 15 approaches...now I'm at around 32. I'm still getting a number for about every one or two approaches.

I'm sure there has to be other guys out there who are stuck at this stage. It's not flaking. It's like I'm not peaking her interest level. I don't even know why I get the number. Am I smooth? I'm surely not very attractive, maybe 2% better than average. Is it out of pity that they give it to me? The rapport is not far from the ordinary. They do smile, give lots of eyecontact, but I'm not telling any jokes or anything...just boring fluff talk...although engaging because I guess women just really love to talk. Maybe they hope I'd be more interesting another day and hope I can peak their interest later?

They haven't all flaked. Some I just don't bother calling because I'm afraid I didn't raise their interest enough anyway. Sometimes I wait too long to call, and when I do, they sound disinterested. I've actually had a few be quite interested (3), but then I've sort of chickened out and made excuses for myself; I feel like they're not hot enough and that maybe I was just too horny on the approach thinking an hb7 was an hb8.5 or something...like second guessing myself?

Anyway, because of all this, I want to go for kiss closes or atleast some major kino on all my approaches. I keep telling myself that I'm over the fear of approaching...and I am, but I need to grab her interest. I'm also not completely over the fear. I want to conquer every aspect of it.

How many of you can say that you can fearlessly approach and attempt to kiss close? or slap/grab her tits/ass on the approach (ie, major kino)?

I think I'm afraid of that. I think there's stages to approaching, the last one being approaching and **** closing that night, like Gunwitch method. Approaching isn't just this number close bull****.

I want to hear what you guys have to say about this. I want to see who is at the same stage as me...I bet there are others. What would you guys suggest/advise? I just think going for the kiss would be the spark I need to get her interested because my approach itself is so mellow. I do think I approach in sort of a 'sexual' state, I just don't put down the moves. How many of you have succeeded with this type of approach/close and how common is it?

I just need some encouragement to see if it's really worth pursuing or just settling for the number thing. It's just that you don't read about much of this type of close attempt on these boards OUTSIDE of clubs, bars. This what I'm looking for, OUTSIDE of clubs, bars, because of course you would be kiss closing in those types of places.

(actually I've attempted 2 kiss closes so far on recent approaches, and both have turned into hugs...I hesitated both times...should i go for the cheek/neck when she turns away?...then escalate to mouth?...or is that too forward to the point of sexual harassment?)

Thanks for reading my rant...err post. Again, sorry for the long post, I just have chronic habit of writing long posts.

btw, I'm thinking of using this "canned" material the next time I approach: tell girl to slap me for a reason she will soon find out about, then grab her ass. I actually read it off of someone's post here.

 

[Scoiland]

i think kiss closing is a little sketchy.... At the bars i think it might be alright if you develop some sort of bond with the girl but by kissing a girl you approach and talk to anywhere seems a little over the top

that is just me though, i think the # close is good enough and if it escalates into a kiss then right on

you must sence what sort of situation you are in ......the kiss close could also backfire extermely ...

lets say you get the number and go for the kiss close and she turns her cheek. You will probably not call her because you will be embarressed.... now you are missing out on a girl that could have been a riot

Kiss closing seems flakey and i suggest to stay away from it

 

[h2o]

Scoiland: I know it would be more common at clubs/bars, but I don't frequent them much. I'll be 21 in a few weeks, but around here there aren't many 18+ clubs close to me. Well, what if she does turn and I kiss her cheek...can I continue kissing her cheek and escalate to her lips in a joking manner? I mean, this would obviously only be attempted on a girl who I thought had interested but felt like 'I don't know, I shouldn't blah blah' feeling.

swampwiz: On my few very good approaches where I can feel good chemistry, we make tons of eyecontact...for example, looking in each other's eyes for over 30 seconds straight, despite meaningless rapport...and she's playing with her hair, etc. I think those times I could have gone for a kiss playfully.

Of course, this is what I'm talking about; taken from Xysen's RSI bootcamp review. Woodhaven is one of their instructors I think. I know the guy is really really good at picking-up, but if I never attempt to get to that level, I never will:

Originally posted by Vin DiCarlo
The latin girl I fu*cked on saturday was walking through the foodcourt of the mall, talking on her cellphone. I stopped her, used one of our compliment openers, and made out with her in the middle of the foodcourt within a few minutes. We then left the mall and got a taxi back to her hotel. Total time to sex was less than two hours.

Woodhaven
--

That's the level I want to get to.

 

[al77]

h2o,

You journal is awesome man. You got more success than 80-90% of others here. Regarding the kiss: go for it, yes, but only if you feel a very good "chemistry". It doesn't happen often, probably 1 in 15-20. If you feel the chemistry, she will not resist much...
Practically just start with some simple comment about her hair, tough it... and see her reaction, then go for the kiss.
But again, in 19 out 20 cases you dont even need or want to go for a kiss at all because it miht like with numbers - you get the number and so what next if she is not receptive?
Some chicks will allow you to kiss them for same reasons they give you dud numbers. Just wait, feel the chemistry, use the hair routine and then go for the kiss.

 

[h2o]

Hey al77, thanks for the response. Honestly, I don't see it as success any more unless there's a spark.

The hair routine seems like a good idea...I think my goal needs to be to "be" in their personal space on the approach, as in stand much closer to them. I feel like on my good, lengthy approaches I break down their Mental/Emotional barrier through smiling / intense eyecontact, but don't really go towards the Physical barrier of kino, etc much. Once I get closer to her on an approach and I'm sure she's somewhat interested, I'll definitely be like, "your hair looks soft" or something, and go from there.

I just found the perfect thread/tip for this.

Pimpology 101: The Kiss Close_
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17006&highlight=kiss+close

and the second article is also pretty good, though goes into a bit too much detail...still some good points_
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17003&highlight=kiss+close

I'll try to continue my journal with frs on these types of approaches. I'll fill in later once I learn some more.

 

[al77]

Originally posted by h2o
Hey al77, thanks for the response. Honestly, I don't see it as success any more unless there's a spark.

The hair routine seems like a good idea...I think my goal needs to be to "be" in their personal space on the approach, as in stand much closer to them. I feel like on my good, lengthy approaches I break down their Mental/Emotional barrier through smiling / intense eyecontact, but don't really go towards the Physical barrier of kino, etc much.

Pimpology 101: The Kiss Close_
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17006&highlight=kiss+close

h2o,

So far according to BC journals you were the most successful in terms of phone numbers. I enjoyed reading your convo scripts.
Plus you tend to _think_ about what you are doing, lot sof guys would like to get the endge on their masculine aggressiveness (which is fine.. but not only it is what matters).

Pimpology 101: The Kiss Close - thats too long...
The idea is amazingly simple: dont go for kiss close unless you feel a) "chemistry" b) she likes you c) she passedthe hair test (i.e. she didnt recoil or said smothing weird).

The ideal scenario: you come closer to her (she didn't move back? Good!) you look at her eyes, then switch to her hair with "wow...oh...", reach her hair, touch on approx level of her eyes-nose-lips (dont touch it on the shoulder!).. say somehting nice about it (though not necesary)...
Then look back into her eyes... some women will lower their eyelids... look down... thats the best signal!!! Kiss her slowly.

Caveat: DO NOT collect kisses like phone numbers...there is no point in numbers. Go for it only after you feel the chemistry and when she is receptive. Yes, it will not happened tomorrow. and the day after tomorrow... and probably even next week. But once you got it, one good kiss will be better than 20 approacches with dud numbers, i.e. be very careful and selective - who you want to kiss. Usually you will feel it after 10-15 minutes of convo for sure.

Kino: try something simple and decent: sho wher somehting "over there": you turn your body to "over there" direction and at the same time with your other hand gently touch her elbow\arm like if you are aim her to the "over there" direction.

I dont really think you should go immediately for some aggressive action - you could succeed, thats not the point - the pint is you don't want some slut... who allows you to grab her everywhere.

Anyway, keep up your journal, it is a cool thing!

 

[TurboLover]

h2o,

Keep that approach journal alive.

As for the kiss close, I have done it a couple of times. Only once outside of a club/bar.

It was on campus at some appartments. The thing is I was talking to her for at least 30 mins, so I was in like sin.

Before she left, I said that I had a secret to tell her. I got close and slowly moved her hair as if I was going to say something in her ear. Instead I just gave her a soft kiss on the cheek.

Now from here is where you look at her reaction, stay close, if she doesnt freek out, then go for the lips.

This move is better for when you are on a date and want to make a move.

Also, on a date you could get in a playful arguement then say, "how can I get you to shut up," then go for the lips.

Good luck. Keep us updated on your approaches.

 

[h2o]

Originally posted by al77
Pimpology 101: The Kiss Close - thats too long...
The idea is amazingly simple: dont go for kiss close unless you feel a) "chemistry" b) she likes you c) she passedthe hair test (i.e. she didnt recoil or said smothing weird).

The ideal scenario: you come closer to her (she didn't move back? Good!) you look at her eyes, then switch to her hair with "wow...oh...", reach her hair, touch on approx level of her eyes-nose-lips (dont touch it on the shoulder!).. say somehting nice about it (though not necesary)...
Then look back into her eyes... some women will lower their eyelids... look down... thats the best signal!!! Kiss her slowly.

Hey, thanks again for the advice.

Originally posted by al77
Caveat: DO NOT collect kisses like phone numbers...there is no point in numbers. Go for it only after you feel the chemistry and when she is receptive. Yes, it will not happened tomorrow. and the day after tomorrow... and probably even next week. But once you got it, one good kiss will be better than 20 approacches with dud numbers, i.e. be very careful and selective - who you want to kiss. Usually you will feel it after 10-15 minutes of convo for sure.

Yeah, I won't do that, no point, right. It's just that if I had attempted this kiss close before, I would have used it 4-5 times in the last 30 or so approaches. I mean, it could have sparked the mellow chemistry I had, and doubled it with those that there was something there to begin with.

Originally posted by al77
I dont really think you should go immediately for some aggressive action - you could succeed, thats not the point - the pint is you don't want some slut... who allows you to grab her everywhere.

Yeah, I mean, this is only after atleast like 10 minutes of talking and flirting, fooling around, etc.

Originally posted by SODA-dj
i have been approaching alot too... but my convos with girls are in most cases no more than 3 lines.. cuz most of the time i jsut stop them off the streets... or between classes.

I think, the my biggest problem in the whole apporach thing, is similar to yours... i can't seem to peak their interest level... I mean if you cold approach a girl on the street, how long you can hold their attention span on you...

any suggestions? Especially about how to keep a girl interested enough to talk to you once you stopped her in middle of the street...

Hey, you've done more than me, so you know better...but I gotta say, street approaches where the girl and you are walking in opposite directions are very difficult. I've never been able to hold their attention for long enough on those types of approaches. Try approaching girls sitting down in the campus commons areas? Also, if you do approach while both of you are walking, try from the side, so you both end up walking in the same direction and can walk together...that's worked for me. As far as peaking interest level though...I think I'm going for kiss closes on lengthier approaches where I feel something, you could try that too.

Originally posted by TurboLover
As for the kiss close, I have done it a couple of times. Only once outside of a club/bar. It was on campus at some appartments. The thing is I was talking to her for at least 30 mins, so I was in like sin. Before she left, I said that I had a secret to tell her. I got close and slowly moved her hair as if I was going to say something in her ear. Instead I just gave her a soft kiss on the cheek. Now from here is where you look at her reaction, stay close, if she doesnt freek out, then go for the lips.

Good luck. Keep us updated on your approaches.

Hey thanks. I think I'll do the hair thing (like al77 suggests) then whisper something in her ear first if I go for it.

Yeah, I'll continue with my journal but...I just felt like the point I started it was because I was fearful of approaching and wanted to get some numbers that could lead to dates. I accomplished that rather quickly to my own surprise...so I'm glad I have some new goals/challenges / fears to face.

In fact, I was gonna tell that other guy who just recently posted about wanting to do 120 approaches that he'd never actually finish because he'd conquer his fears much sooner than the 120 mark. Of course, I didn't want to disappoint or discourage him from aiming high so I didn't say it.

 

[Spiky]

h2o your doing well.

Unfortunately they only way to totally kill the fear of approaching seems to be mass approaches. Once you've done about 250-500 approaches you should see dramatic decrease in fear.

If your getting a number for every one or two approaches thats a good statistic but im wondering about your sets. Most people who start approaching initially have massive problems with phone number flaking.

I found that my flaking went down when i made my sets longer. Sets over 40 minutes rarely flake.

As for kiss closing have you tried canned kiss closes?:

"How would you rate yourself out of 10 as a kisser? lets find out."

Or even the imfamous kiss bet:
"i bet i can make you feel a kiss without touching your lips.... ok close your eyes.... *kiss her*... ****, i lose"

Or Gunwhich style phase shift:
Start triangular gazing (looking from eye to eye and at her lips)
Get close (like 6-10 inches from her face)
Lick your lips, tilk your head (subtly)
Talk about neutral things as you move your heads closer together and kiss.

4 out of 5 of my kiss closes have been me just saying the chicks name, waiting untill she looks at me and kissing her.