Jeffst1980
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2008
- Messages
- 834
- Reaction score
- 131
To be sure, the title is a bit of hyperbole...of course, indirect game will continue to work for many, and the principles espoused in models like M3 are generally correct (besides the one about 7 hours of comfort).
But, there are a lot of pitfalls that stem from introducing superfluous "gambits" such as negs, disqualifiers, etc.
For starters, let's define the core principles of pickup, that all "game" must possess:
-The PUA (or DJ, or whatever) must demonstrate high value by refusing to supplicate to the female--the "prize" mentality.
-The PUA is responsible for escalation and should begin using kino as soon as he is in set.
-A statement of intent must be issued at some point, to set a sexual frame.
(There's certainly more, but they're not coming to mind right now!)
Essentially, this describes an alpha male--a guy that takes what he wants.
Now, the BIGGEST fear that guys have about using DIRECT game is that it "telegraphs too much interest." I take issue with this for a couple of reasons:
First of all, it is no secret that when a man sees a beautiful woman, he wants to have sex with it--I mean--HER.
This is PAINFULLY obvious, and all the opinion openers with feigned disinterest in the world isn't going to change this. If you open a pretty girl, she knows what's up, even if you neg her about her fake nails.
Second, the FEAR of showing interest is what keeps guys from truly becoming confident at pickup. Showing interest is NOT the same as neediness!! Neediness stems from supplication--following her around, trying to make her like you, buying her drinks, being overly polite, etc.
An alpha male WOULD NOT be afraid to show sexual interest in a female, and might come off as aggressive, but never needy--because he knows if one doesn't like him, there's plenty of other girls out there.
Now, an indirect opener can certainly lead to a more direct style of game, but it usually doesn't work that way, from my experience. More likely, you get stuck in the frame of "friendly conversation" so that when you DO give a statement of intent, it invalidates EVERYTHING you said beforehand. It looks like an underhanded tactic--because it is.
A similar potential for misuse lies with disqualifiers--if you pick something LOGICAL (for instance--you live in a different state and you tell a girl it wouldn't work because you're leaving tomorrow), you ACTUALLY DISQUALIFY YOURSELF!! The point of disqualifying yourself is to demonstrate a fun, ****y/funny personality--when you say, "this would never work; we're too similar" -- deep down, she KNOWS you still want her! It's just flirting.
All the stuff about being a "challenge" or "letting her win you over" is also misleading. It is 100% TRUE that women LOVE a challenge--but their "challenge" is NOT to SLEEP with a PUA--it's to KEEP him. So, playing "hard to get" as a guy is, once again, complete b.s. Women NEED to be chased a little. They enjoy letting a worthy guy "catch" them, and the way they filter out the weak is by issuing a series of tests that require one to stay calm and ALSO persist. Trying to reverse the roles and acting as though she's trying to seduce YOU isn't going to fool anybody. It is a biological phenomenon: Men are the pursuers. Men want sex MUCH more than women do--our bodies are virtually FLOODED with testosterone. This is not a bad thing, because women are attracted to masculinity. Guys that suppress this because they want to appear "hard to get" are shooting themselves in the foot. No girl ever rejected a guy for having a healthy sex drive; however, girls DO reject guys that appear to be timid or uncertain about their sexuality.
If we compare all this to DIRECT game, we see that direct game is WAY more efficient and generates WAY more attraction--because it is based on ACTUALLY BEING ALPHA, rather than posturing as alpha while "testing the waters." Indirect game gives you a nice buffer against rejection--throughout the interaction, you have the plausible deniability of "just being friendly" (which is also very transparent to women). When you go direct, you are more exposed, but that's just another way to demonstrate your alpha nature; a truly confident man is NOT afraid of rejection. In fact, he's more amused by it than anything else, secure in the knowledge that rejection, when handled correctly, can actually INCREASE attraction.
If you want a good example, Tim from RSD runs excellent direct game--almost caveman game. Sinn runs solid direct game, as well.
Neil Strauss, IMHO, is an example of someone NOT to emulate. I have great difficulty believing he has had success with women because of his pickup skills, as opposed to his celebrity. His mannerisms and body language are a far cry from alpha, and his style of indirect game seems to place him in the "friendzone" from the outset. His book is an entertaining and compelling read, though.
I will acknowledge that going direct will get you blown out much more, and will force you to be EXTREMELY congruent with the alpha nature you present--that means, you HAVE to qualify her and escalate fast, or it gets weird. But, on the bright side, it sure as hell beats spending an hour in set only to get an "LJBF."
To some up direct game- "Take what is in front of you without hesitation."
But, there are a lot of pitfalls that stem from introducing superfluous "gambits" such as negs, disqualifiers, etc.
For starters, let's define the core principles of pickup, that all "game" must possess:
-The PUA (or DJ, or whatever) must demonstrate high value by refusing to supplicate to the female--the "prize" mentality.
-The PUA is responsible for escalation and should begin using kino as soon as he is in set.
-A statement of intent must be issued at some point, to set a sexual frame.
(There's certainly more, but they're not coming to mind right now!)
Essentially, this describes an alpha male--a guy that takes what he wants.
Now, the BIGGEST fear that guys have about using DIRECT game is that it "telegraphs too much interest." I take issue with this for a couple of reasons:
First of all, it is no secret that when a man sees a beautiful woman, he wants to have sex with it--I mean--HER.
This is PAINFULLY obvious, and all the opinion openers with feigned disinterest in the world isn't going to change this. If you open a pretty girl, she knows what's up, even if you neg her about her fake nails.Second, the FEAR of showing interest is what keeps guys from truly becoming confident at pickup. Showing interest is NOT the same as neediness!! Neediness stems from supplication--following her around, trying to make her like you, buying her drinks, being overly polite, etc.
An alpha male WOULD NOT be afraid to show sexual interest in a female, and might come off as aggressive, but never needy--because he knows if one doesn't like him, there's plenty of other girls out there.
Now, an indirect opener can certainly lead to a more direct style of game, but it usually doesn't work that way, from my experience. More likely, you get stuck in the frame of "friendly conversation" so that when you DO give a statement of intent, it invalidates EVERYTHING you said beforehand. It looks like an underhanded tactic--because it is.
A similar potential for misuse lies with disqualifiers--if you pick something LOGICAL (for instance--you live in a different state and you tell a girl it wouldn't work because you're leaving tomorrow), you ACTUALLY DISQUALIFY YOURSELF!! The point of disqualifying yourself is to demonstrate a fun, ****y/funny personality--when you say, "this would never work; we're too similar" -- deep down, she KNOWS you still want her! It's just flirting.
All the stuff about being a "challenge" or "letting her win you over" is also misleading. It is 100% TRUE that women LOVE a challenge--but their "challenge" is NOT to SLEEP with a PUA--it's to KEEP him. So, playing "hard to get" as a guy is, once again, complete b.s. Women NEED to be chased a little. They enjoy letting a worthy guy "catch" them, and the way they filter out the weak is by issuing a series of tests that require one to stay calm and ALSO persist. Trying to reverse the roles and acting as though she's trying to seduce YOU isn't going to fool anybody. It is a biological phenomenon: Men are the pursuers. Men want sex MUCH more than women do--our bodies are virtually FLOODED with testosterone. This is not a bad thing, because women are attracted to masculinity. Guys that suppress this because they want to appear "hard to get" are shooting themselves in the foot. No girl ever rejected a guy for having a healthy sex drive; however, girls DO reject guys that appear to be timid or uncertain about their sexuality.
If we compare all this to DIRECT game, we see that direct game is WAY more efficient and generates WAY more attraction--because it is based on ACTUALLY BEING ALPHA, rather than posturing as alpha while "testing the waters." Indirect game gives you a nice buffer against rejection--throughout the interaction, you have the plausible deniability of "just being friendly" (which is also very transparent to women). When you go direct, you are more exposed, but that's just another way to demonstrate your alpha nature; a truly confident man is NOT afraid of rejection. In fact, he's more amused by it than anything else, secure in the knowledge that rejection, when handled correctly, can actually INCREASE attraction.
If you want a good example, Tim from RSD runs excellent direct game--almost caveman game. Sinn runs solid direct game, as well.
Neil Strauss, IMHO, is an example of someone NOT to emulate. I have great difficulty believing he has had success with women because of his pickup skills, as opposed to his celebrity. His mannerisms and body language are a far cry from alpha, and his style of indirect game seems to place him in the "friendzone" from the outset. His book is an entertaining and compelling read, though.
I will acknowledge that going direct will get you blown out much more, and will force you to be EXTREMELY congruent with the alpha nature you present--that means, you HAVE to qualify her and escalate fast, or it gets weird. But, on the bright side, it sure as hell beats spending an hour in set only to get an "LJBF."
To some up direct game- "Take what is in front of you without hesitation."