The apparent "gayness" of many coaches

[Atom Smasher]

I'm sure you guys have noticed that many seduction gurus have major gay affectations. It's apparent sin their gestures sometimes but especially apparent in their voices. Look at Style, Mehow, Owen (to a lesser degree), and many others.

We always talk about how important it is to develop our masculine traits, but I find that most men are stuck in that in-between area, where they are not classically masculine nor feminine. The normal, average man in our society is kind of neutered.

It almost seems like extremely masculine men are attractive, as are feminine men (from what I can see with these gurus). I can't for the life of me figure out how guys like Style or Mehow are found attractive by women.

What are your thoughts on this, guys?

 

[BigJimbo]

I hope you are 12 years old. If not you are going to have a tough life. One last time! Most are gay men. They simply play a roll that young boys and poor men who work at Best Buy are suckered into believing.

 

[Nutz]

The type of man women find attractive depends on where the women are at in their cycle. When they're ovulating they tend to want classic alpha male characteristics you'd imagine. Other times of the month they are drawn to more effeminate traits like the ones you described. Considering that's the bulk of the month for most women it stands to reason those men would have the most success from a general perspective, but that the alpha type guys would have the best sex and most kids. Just look at all the thugs having baby mommas in urban areas around the country. They're not running out to **** the beta guys and have their kids. No, it's the alpha types that get them preggers, and then the beta types get to raise the little bastards.

 

[YouKnowI'mRight]

I'm sure you guys have noticed that many seduction gurus have major gay affectations. It's apparent sin their gestures sometimes but especially apparent in their voices. Look at Style, Mehow, Owen (to a lesser degree), and many others.

=snip=

What are your thoughts on this, guys?

It's a side-effect of studying women as well as getting intense rapport with them going on.

This is something I monitor in myself and have internalized it so I easily catch myself if I ever slip and make some girly gestures or girl tonality. This can happen easily in deep-wide rapport and you have to keep an eye on it so you don't fall into a pattern of making feminine gestures. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

For anyone who's having this issue, you can associate girly gestures/tonality with whatever label suits you best (loser, AFC, whatever) and watch for it in others and mark it as BAD or DESTRUCTIVE. After a while, you're unconscious will start taking care of it for you and bring it to your attention if you slip.

Now that I've done that for quite a while, it rarely happens. But, yes, sometimes even the best "gurus" go native and don't even realize it.

 

[Mike32ct]

They aren't immediately attractive to women. But at first, they are very disarming. Hot girls won't give the b&tch shield to an apparently gay guy because he's no threat. (If you are a straight guy who doesn't meet her looks standards, she'll freeze you out.)

He can then make them laugh and has interesting things to talk about that women like. MOST of all, he even can get away with some fairly aggressive kino because he's "just like a gay friend messing around." By the time she figures out he's straight, she's already turned on by all the kino/foreplay.

Watch The Real World (MTV's original reality show). Most seasons have at least one gay guy. You'll see chicks rubbing their boobs on them and doing all kinds of naughty things because he isn't a threat. But if that guy was secretly straight or at least bi, with some game, he could turn that into a close.

I'm not advocating for this style of game, but it can work.

It's also discussed a bit in Tyler's Secret Society thread.

 

[Atom Smasher]

I hope you are 12 years old. If not you are going to have a tough life. One last time! Most are gay men. They simply play a roll that young boys and poor men who work at Best Buy are suckered into believing.

Gaaaa!! Anybody know what's good for cleaning coffee off a monitor?!? :crackup:

In defense of our beloved resident troll, I have sometimes speculated that these guys are so highly sexually driven that it's possible many of them have been willing to taste of the forbidden fruit at least once, probably more. My buddy who is a real tough guy has told me stories of guys he worked out at the gym with who were so sexually driven that after a while girls didn't excite them so much, and they turned to an occasional dalliance with men in order to acheive that thrill.

I think a lot of what you other guys are saying makes sense. I can definitely see the cycle playing a part, and also the slipping in under the radar with the gayness. I myself have many times dwelled in the rapport state for too long, with the sudden realization of, "Uh-oh... I'm now officially her girlfriend!"

Thankfully, largely because of what I've learned here, I rarely fall into that anymore. But I can come dangerously close before I realize it.

 

[FairShake]

I tease the younger generation about being gay because they have obviously picked up some social cues from gay guys. But I can still tell who is gay and who isn't. Straight dudes simply cannot fake the funk. They can TRY but they can't do it. These PUA gurus are definitely using some of the gay flavor but not so much that they even seem remotely gay to anyone who grew up in a city with running water and indoor toilets.

I think alot of guys who don't do very well with women would do better if they gayed it up a bit. It's much better than a flat monotone and a brusque alpha bark. Smarmy or gay take your pick.

 

[zekko]

They aren't immediately attractive to women. But at first, they are very disarming. Hot girls won't give the b&tch shield to an apparently gay guy because he's no threat.

Mystery also gets accused of "gayness", and a lot of his stuff is designed to slip in under the radar. All that stuff about disqualifying yourself as a potential suitor is about making her think you're not hitting on her so you have time to talk to her.

Women love gay guys for some reason. I know a few gay guys, whenever they come around all the girls practically squeal in delight. It's like when female friends see each other and jump up and down and hug. The girls are all over these guys physically.

Yet for some reason even these somewhat feminine pickup gurus tell you to be hypermasculine and all that. It's kind of strange when you think about it.

 

[Mike32ct]

I think this is also why some straight girls go to gay clubs. They can grind and dance dirty with (gay) men. Thus, they can AW and have naughty fun, but not worry about the guy trying to take them home.

I took a private bootcamp with a former top PUA in 2004. (I don't want to name names.) This guy had phenominal game. But when he went to the restroom, a girl asked me if he was gay. But his strongest point was being very fun and disarming.

 

[Chamber36]

I thought Style and Tyler Durden were gay.... Mystery nahhh. He is just insecure.

I always thought gay guys could see things from a female perspective a bit better than us straight guys.
I get accused of being macho... whatever. I got my long feminine hair and slim body and I act masculine? Whatever.

People tell you all sorts of **** as ****-tests.

 

[Mr. Fantastic]

It almost seems like extremely masculine men are attractive, as are feminine men (from what I can see with these gurus). I can't for the life of me figure out how guys like Style or Mehow are found attractive by women.

What are your thoughts on this, guys?

In the realm of sexuality it is better to be sexual than to have no sexuality. Most people are androgynous, or exhibit no sexuality at all, rather than masculine or feminine which causes them to appear flat (After all if you are not a man or woman then what are you?). One can easily tell the sexual people out in a sea of androgyny because they actually appear human. The battle for your sexuality is the battle for your very existence. Without sexuality you become nothing.

What most gurus do is devote their lives to studying women and literally become women in the process. Sure they can have sex with many women, but are such 'gurus' men? To women 'union' is the goal of life. They spend a great deal of time trying to snag 'Mr. Right' and do not focus on forming a world for themselves. These 'gurus' just form themselves into what women want and spend their time satisfying women's needs. I bet if women were attracted to guys who wore dresses and put on make-up, these guru's would do it. I have yet to hear a guru say when to not get the woman. When she is not going in the same direction your life is going is an example of when you should stay away from a woman (she literally becomes a Life blocker). It is always do x,y, and z to satisfy her need of a,b, and c, instead of focus on yourself and what you want. The next time you find yourself asking, "what do women what?" you might as well stick your fist in a blender.

 

[YouKnowI'mRight]

The next time you find yourself asking, "what do women what?" you might as well stick your fist in a blender.

Unless, of course, you understand how WANTS work.

Once you do, you'll have a deep and priceless understanding of yourself and women and what women do will not be confusing in any way.

 

[Mike32ct]

That's an interesting angle because a gay PUA trainer would appear to be a master in the field. Hot chicks would open up instantly, smile, giggle, and show all the classic signs of attraction. Students would be amazed at his "game." Plus he doesn't actually have to close the chick because he can't leave his students.

Then some straight student approaches the same females and gets blown out. He's needs to be more "calibrated" like his instructor LOL.

 

[jacob]

I'm sure you guys have noticed that many seduction gurus have major gay affectations. It's apparent sin their gestures sometimes but especially apparent in their voices. Look at Style, Mehow, Owen (to a lesser degree), and many others.

We always talk about how important it is to develop our masculine traits, but I find that most men are stuck in that in-between area, where they are not classically masculine nor feminine. The normal, average man in our society is kind of neutered.

It almost seems like extremely masculine men are attractive, as are feminine men (from what I can see with these gurus). I can't for the life of me figure out how guys like Style or Mehow are found attractive by women.

What are your thoughts on this, guys?

Great male lovers have a perfect balance of masculine and feminine.

I hear alot of my sister's friends say this, which struck me one time when I started dating my lady friend, and when my soft AFC side would come out while we were having our "playful" sessions, with her eyes sparkling with attraction she made a remark about how it's so sexy that I'm not always macho, then we started to make out.

True don juans have found the right mix of steel and velvet, of being alpha yet AFC.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Look at Mehow, for example. I see a lot of velvet, but I'm still looking for the steel. He's the most glaring example, but it does seem that for many of the gurus, the feminine traits are strong enough to outweigh the masuline.

You are right in terms of striking a balance between macho and sensitive. I'm convinced that this is the reason why women have a VERY hard time letting me go. I am tough and I enforce the rules, but I am also sensitive (playful, empahetic, romantic).

Those sensitive traits are what offsets the Aplha behavior and makes her come back for more.

 

[YouKnowI'mRight]

so if you act gay it will get u in with a lot of women even if your straight.
its like a trogan horse move...
Now having said allll that...its quite possible some of these MPUA guys are really gay and are either bisexual or just straight out in the closet.
like i said it would be so easy to pick up women if you were gay...this is because women find gays non threatening...and also because if you were gay you wouldnt be hitting on women for sex...which would make your frame completley more relaxed...so its possible some MPUA are infact gay and they are just in the scene to make money out of chumps..i actually suspect this is the case to some extent.
I dunno if this post makes sense...but hope so.

Which will work, because virtually all women want sex.

The thing is, those women aren't getting their emotions stirred to any significant extent, so it's just sex. Nothing extra specially exciting about it.

OTOH, you have the guys who are giving off the "i'm the kind of guy who takes what he wants" vibe that gets women all amped out and extremely passionate sex follows.

Either way will work quite well....getting good at flying under their radar, or the opposite, being the kind of guy who walks up to a girl, grabs her hand, and says "hey, i want you to meet my friends" and leads her over to his friends. The former gets laid consistently. The latter gets his brains farked out regularly. To each his own.

 

[zekko]

This just goes to show that there's more than one way to skin a cat, and that there's no one single type of guy that women will respond to.