Social proof/using jealousy to get a girl

[SteR]

Just wondering how the best way to play this is.

Case in point: I was out a few weeks ago with a friend and a few of his colleagues from work (all girls). One of them was pretty hot and from the outset decided that was the one I was after. Anyway, after a few drinks with my buddy I went down to the other end of the table and started working the girls. I tried not to pay too much attention to the hot one and then left the group when I thought I'd built up their interest to an appropriate point.

Having gone back to the other end of the table, the hot one comes down to my end a few moments later and drapes herself all over my buddy (sitting next to me). She also starts flirting with another guy who joined us, that again, is sitting next to me. I realise I may be off when I say this, but I was very strongly under the impression she was doing this to try and make me jealous.

Anyway I didn't react and we head off to a club later on. Same thing happens.. I flirt with the other girls and try to pay no attention to the hot chick. She obviously sees them draping themselves all over me and again, she starts flirting with this other guy and again, I'm pretty sure it's a counter move to what I'm doing. It even got to a point where I started doubting myself and was concerned she might actually end up hooking up with this other guy.

Finally, a little while later when I figure I've played these games long enough, I move over to her and try to work on her.. however she seems a little cold to me now. Eventually after a couple of minutes of trying to get her talking, I got frustrated and just walked off.

Now my question is, where (if at all) did I go wrong here? I realise that getting girls jealous is a very powerful tool to use but I can't figure out if I played it incorrectly...

Any advice?

 

[iliketennis]

maybe she was never interested in you and it was all in your mind

 

[zekko]

She also starts flirting with another guy who joined us, that again, is sitting next to me. I realise I may be off when I say this, but I was very strongly under the impression she was doing this to try and make me jealous.

Maybe she was doing this to punish you for ignoring her. She may have even known what you were up to. I know pickup theory says that hot girls are very insecure about themselves, but from my experience girls who are very hot KNOW they're hot.

I wonder if you make yourself look weak sometimes doing the "ignore the hot girl" thing. Like you're afraid to talk to her or something. I think you run the risk of this if you overplay the indifference to her.
Sounds like you may have waited too long to make your move on her.

 

[jophil28]

Now my question is, where (if at all) did I go wrong here? I realise that getting girls jealous is a very powerful tool to use but I can't figure out if I played it incorrectly...

Any advice?

Like most guys who read PUA theory and practise, you misunderstand it, misapplied it and failed.
Why the F do you guys go at this like a bull in a chandelier store.

Seduction requires skill, timing, patience and restraint NOT clumsy adolescent " make her jealous" games.
That hot woman knew exactly what you were trying to do and she decided(as Zekko said) to punish you by toying with you and then icing you out .

Gentlemen, "game" is best applied like salt and pepper on food - a little is just the right amount.

 

[SteR]

Maybe she was doing this to punish you for ignoring her. She may have even known what you were up to. I know pickup theory says that hot girls are very insecure about themselves, but from my experience girls who are very hot KNOW they're hot.

I wonder if you make yourself look weak sometimes doing the "ignore the hot girl" thing. Like you're afraid to talk to her or something. I think you run the risk of this if you overplay the indifference to her.
Sounds like you may have waited too long to make your move on her.

Just to clarify, I didn't completely ignore this girl.. I just paid her about 20% attention compared to the other 2.

Like most guys who read PUA theory and practise, you misunderstand it, misapplied it and failed.
Why the F do you guys go at this like a bull in a chandelier store.

Seduction requires skill, timing, patience and restraint NOT clumsy adolescent " make her jealous" games.
That hot woman knew exactly what you were trying to do and she decided(as Zekko said) to punish you by toying with you and then icing you out .

Gentlemen, "game" is best applied like salt and pepper on food - a little is just the right amount.

Well obviously it requires skill, which is why I'm trying to practice! But i need someone with experience to critique.

Assuming I did everything correctly until we got to the club (which I presume I did as one of the 2 girls mentioned she was interested in me), how should I have escalated in the club?

From what I recall I just went straight up to her once I'd got my drink and said "so you gonna tell me a little bit about yourself?". How would you guys have proceeded?

 

[Ease]

You didnt do anything wrong. Girls dont punish you for game. Do girls leave their abusive boyfriends?

Who knows what she was thinking, she herself doesnt. You walk up to a girl thinking its a sure thing and she goes cold on you. You get a 10 throwing herself at you one day and a 6 that isnt interested the next. Happens to us all.

 

[Galactus]

Oh, I think that if she had any interest in you, at least at first, then she probably was punishing you. I don't think she thought of it as punishment, but if you gave her even slightly too little attention, it probably pissed her off big time. There's a fine line there, between too little attention and too much.

If she's hot, and you gave her too little attention, she probably just realized she didn't need you to plow her rosebush. But she wanted to make sure you knew you blew your opportunity.

I'm just speculating here. I would say just move on and keep at it. Maybe ignore the next girl .5% less. See what happens.

Good luck.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

To the OP.

First off you sound pretty insecure to have to play jealousy games with some hot girl.

You could simply just say hi or talk non-chalantly about random topics with them and treat them as a human being and not just a "hot babe".

If the girl persists in being an AW go about your buisness and act like a man unless you have nothing better to do than look for validation and try to score with an insecure girl who will keep up with her nonsense whether you hook up with her or not.

I wouldn't have wasted my time. There's plenty more girls out there and plenty of things to do other than worry about feeding her fragile ego. Don't mistake insecurity as a good thing. Whomever she does date she'll be playing Annie the AW with anyway.

 

[SteR]

To the OP.

First off you sound pretty insecure to have to play jealousy games with some hot girl.

You could simply just say hi or talk non-chalantly about random topics with them and treat them as a human being and not just a "hot babe".

If the girl persists in being an AW go about your buisness and act like a man unless you have nothing better to do than look for validation and try to score with an insecure girl who will keep up with her nonsense whether you hook up with her or not.

I'm not insecure. The whole reason I did what I did was to try and show her that I was the one who was in demand. Honestly, it worked. Whatever I did in the bar was bang on, as I knew when I left that this girl was interested.

I wouldn't have wasted my time. There's plenty more girls out there and plenty of things to do other than worry about feeding her fragile ego. Don't mistake insecurity as a good thing. Whomever she does date she'll be playing Annie the AW with anyway.

Yea I believe you're right here. Ultimately I knew this wasn't going to go anywhere.. I'd met the girl that evening and she did seem pretty bland.. but she was hot. It was also one of those evenings where I just felt like dancing and making out with a hot girl.. so I'm frustrated that I somehow blew it.

I just want to learn from this somehow. If I did do anything notable to screw this up then I'd like to remedy it for next time.

 

[Naughty Ninja]

It even got to a point where I started doubting myself and was concerned she might actually end up hooking up with this other guy.

Finally, a little while later when I figure I've played these games long enough, I move over to her and try to work on her.. however she seems a little cold to me now. Eventually after a couple of minutes of trying to get her talking, I got frustrated and just walked off.

Now my question is, where (if at all) did I go wrong here? I realise that getting girls jealous is a very powerful tool to use but I can't figure out if I played it incorrectly...

The above would have you or any of us believing you aren't insecure and showed her you were "in demand" and you "knew" this worked but are questioning it weeks later?

Alrighty then.

 

[SteR]

The above would have you or any of us believing you aren't insecure and showed her you were "in demand" and you "knew" this worked but are questioning it weeks later?

Alrighty then.

I admit I had my doubts for a minute or so but I'd hardly class my overall being as 'insecure'. Besides, Nobody is 100% secure.

I'm only questioning it because looking back it still evades me as to where I went wrong. I was just interested to hear opinions so I can prevent this happening again (if at all possible).

 

[Galactus]

Ster, it looks to me like you have exactly the right attitude. You're throwing sh!t at the wall and seeing what sticks. This is how you learn. This is what I believe this forum is for. When I started coming on here eight years ago, I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, and trying to learn things that I could use in the field to improve my game.

It worked. I came on here and talked to the other DJs about stuff I had done recently, and wanted to find out where I screwed up, and where I did well. It wasn't long before I was getting laid like crazy. I was able to come on here and help others. Then my situation changed, and I lost my mojo. Now I'm back here because hopefully all you new DJs can help me get it back.

A lot of people seem to think it's playing games and not respecting women and being insecure when you try different tactics. Ignore that. First of all, you know if your intentions are honorable, and you know if you're being disrespectful. Secondly, it's pretty naive to think you can get through life, dealing with other people, without employing little persuasion tactics, trying to get the upper hand. They are trying, believe that.

A guy recently bought a bike at a rummage sale for $5.00. Turns out the bike used to belong to Floyd Landis, the Tour-de-France racer who tested positive for steroids. It was a custom bike, actually worth thousands of dollars. Should the guy say, "Wow, dude, it wouldn't be right to buy this so cheap. Here, let me give you $7,000.00 for it." Hell no!

This is the world we live in. Besides, what you're trying to do is give the girl sex, which she wants anyway. You're not taking anything from her. You're not giving her the worse end of the deal. And in the end, it's her choice if it happens anyway.

Keep coming on here and analyzing what you did, and talking to others about it. If this forum is anything like it used to be, you'll iron things out in no time. Rock on, man.

 

[jophil28]

I'm only questioning it because looking back it still evades me as to where I went wrong. I was just interested to hear opinions so I can prevent this happening again (if at all possible).

That Hottie toyed with you and then froze you out for two reasons -
1. She saw you 'acting' as if you had social value . Just flirting with all the other women does NOT give you social proof at all - it makes you look like a social goof who is jumping though some pre-deteremined hoops to impress women.
Women interpret this performance as a sign that your inner confidence is lacking . No confidence equals no social value.
Ideally you should be working on your confidence so that your mere presence in the room is enough to trigger interest in women. Then you add some mild flirting - and so on.
2. When she "mirrored" your behavior she was offering you an opportunity - an opening. YOU did not take it because you misread the signal. Instead you continued to ignore her, and continued to act in your bizarre belief that more flirting with others was somehow working in your favor. More is better, right ?WRONG !
Finally her patience (and her IL)was exhausted and her initial interest turned to misinterest because she saw you caught up in your clumsy "game" instead of just cooly approaching her and opening her.

And that is how women punish men who F up.

 

[Datpiff]

You took it too far, if i was you i would have isolated her after u had created attraction with the set the first time usually if you dont make a move quick enough the girl just stops being "attracted"

 

[Big O]

Now my question is, where (if at all) did I go wrong here? I realise that getting girls jealous is a very powerful tool to use but I can't figure out if I played it incorrectly...

Any advice?

I'm not convinced that you did anything wrong here. It sounds like natural back and forth to me, testing each other's interest levels and so on. This happened a few weeks ago, right? Are you going to see her again - through your friend again perhaps? Or can you friend her on facebook or something like that, again you have a mutual friend, right?

She may not have been completely head over heels for you by the end of that first time you met, but you seemed to have an effect on her, so I wouldn't rule her out yet.

 

[SteR]

Ster, it looks to me like you have exactly the right attitude. You're throwing sh!t at the wall and seeing what sticks. This is how you learn. This is what I believe this forum is for. When I started coming on here eight years ago, I was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, and trying to learn things that I could use in the field to improve my game.

It worked. I came on here and talked to the other DJs about stuff I had done recently, and wanted to find out where I screwed up, and where I did well. It wasn't long before I was getting laid like crazy. I was able to come on here and help others. Then my situation changed, and I lost my mojo. Now I'm back here because hopefully all you new DJs can help me get it back.

A lot of people seem to think it's playing games and not respecting women and being insecure when you try different tactics. Ignore that. First of all, you know if your intentions are honorable, and you know if you're being disrespectful. Secondly, it's pretty naive to think you can get through life, dealing with other people, without employing little persuasion tactics, trying to get the upper hand. They are trying, believe that.

A guy recently bought a bike at a rummage sale for $5.00. Turns out the bike used to belong to Floyd Landis, the Tour-de-France racer who tested positive for steroids. It was a custom bike, actually worth thousands of dollars. Should the guy say, "Wow, dude, it wouldn't be right to buy this so cheap. Here, let me give you $7,000.00 for it." Hell no!

This is the world we live in. Besides, what you're trying to do is give the girl sex, which she wants anyway. You're not taking anything from her. You're not giving her the worse end of the deal. And in the end, it's her choice if it happens anyway.

Keep coming on here and analyzing what you did, and talking to others about it. If this forum is anything like it used to be, you'll iron things out in no time. Rock on, man.

Thanks!

That Hottie toyed with you and then froze you out for two reasons -
1. She saw you 'acting' as if you had social value . Just flirting with all the other women does NOT give you social proof at all - it makes you look like a social goof who is jumping though some pre-deteremined hoops to impress women.
Women interpret this performance as a sign that your inner confidence is lacking . No confidence equals no social value.
Ideally you should be working on your confidence so that your mere presence in the room is enough to trigger interest in women. Then you add some mild flirting - and so on.
2. When she "mirrored" your behavior she was offering you an opportunity - an opening. YOU did not take it because you misread the signal. Instead you continued to ignore her, and continued to act in your bizarre belief that more flirting with others was somehow working in your favor. More is better, right ?WRONG !
Finally her patience (and her IL)was exhausted and her initial interest turned to misinterest because she saw you caught up in your clumsy "game" instead of just cooly approaching her and opening her.

And that is how women punish men who F up.

I disagree with your first point. I know I didn't screw up in the first half of the evening. This is one thing I'm absolutely sure of. When I left the bar, I had their attention/interest - all 3 of them. It's very hard to convey all of this over a forum as words can't fully describe the situation, but I knew it in my gut that I was the dog's bollocks when I left. I suppose it's also worth mentioning that I am quite fortunate with my looks.

As for the second point, I took the opportunity! I suppose 'ignore' maybe isn't the word I should've used. I did give this girl attention.. I just didn't give her nearly as much as I was giving the other 2 girls. When I got into the club I just casually walked up to her and tried to get her talking but she just wouldn't open up. I vaguely recall her saying 'come find me later' but by this point I was just fed up.

You took it too far, if i was you i would have isolated her after u had created attraction with the set the first time usually if you dont make a move quick enough the girl just stops being "attracted"

I did isolate her and tried to get her talking but she just clammed up. I had no idea why.

I'm not convinced that you did anything wrong here. It sounds like natural back and forth to me, testing each other's interest levels and so on. This happened a few weeks ago, right? Are you going to see her again - through your friend again perhaps? Or can you friend her on facebook or something like that, again you have a mutual friend, right?

She may not have been completely head over heels for you by the end of that first time you met, but you seemed to have an effect on her, so I wouldn't rule her out yet.

Well this is what seems weird to me too.. because honestly I felt I had everything under control until she gave me the cold shoulder. I suppose when I think about it, it's really not worth worrying about too much as it could've been for a number of unrelated reasons that she went cold on me. What I do want to know is whether I did something obvious to cause it (but I can't see anything).

As for contacting her again, I'm not really interested in seeing this chick again. She was nice to meet that evening (as a case study, ha) but I'm not going to waste time on trying to see her again.

Once again I appreciate the responses.. it's always interesting hearing different views :rock:

 

[Ease]

That Hottie toyed with you and then froze you out for two reasons -
1. She saw you 'acting' as if you had social value . Just flirting with all the other women does NOT give you social proof at all - it makes you look like a social goof who is jumping though some pre-deteremined hoops to impress women.
Women interpret this performance as a sign that your inner confidence is lacking . No confidence equals no social value.
Ideally you should be working on your confidence so that your mere presence in the room is enough to trigger interest in women. Then you add some mild flirting - and so on.
2. When she "mirrored" your behavior she was offering you an opportunity - an opening. YOU did not take it because you misread the signal. Instead you continued to ignore her, and continued to act in your bizarre belief that more flirting with others was somehow working in your favor. More is better, right ?WRONG !
Finally her patience (and her IL)was exhausted and her initial interest turned to misinterest because she saw you caught up in your clumsy "game" instead of just cooly approaching her and opening her.

And that is how women punish men who F up.

Both points are wrong.

What works at 50 is not the same at 25.

 

[jophil28]

Some of you guys just ignore the obvious.
The only thing that counts is the outcome, and the outcome was a bust.

IF the OP's 'game' was working he would have got the hottie. She rejected him because his game was flawed.

Based on results, he failed. And he failed because he made some serious FUNDAMENTAL blunders.
However you and Ease are free to believe whatever your limited knowledge and your ego's are telling you .

I am not here to debate with rookies , but here is a clue for both of you.
The sort of "social proof" that the OP tried to create is only effective if the guy has demonstrated his value in other ways.
You need to have OTHER qualities and not rely on a PUA 'dog and pony' show of bogus popularity with other chicks.
You underestimated that woman's ability to see your game for what it was - a contrived performance. She may have had some interest at some stage but she went cold because the "game" that you were running lost it's effectiveness .

A woman will NOT find a guy strongly attractive who plays the flirt game like the OP did UNLESS her attraction has been piqued by other factors.. She will be curious at best if she sees him flirt with other women. Her curiosity may lead her into moving closer to him for a closer look and listen. She will 'scan' him for other DHV's and THEN she will make a decision to pursue or not.

The HB in this case decided not to, and I bet that even if you asked her why she passed on him, she would not be able to articulate her reasons for doing so.

As I said earlier, believe it or not - it's no skin off my back either way.

 

[zekko]

You need to have OTHER qualities and not rely on a PUA 'dog and pony' show of bogus popularity with other chicks.

I think a lot of guys are so into "game" becaue they don't have anything else going for them (not talking about anyone in this thread by the way). So they get into game and build it up in their heads as the one factor that trumps everything else with women. But I still say the one thing that most creates attraction in a woman is value. If you have value, you won't have to work very hard for the girl.

You underestimated that woman's ability to see your game for what it was - a contrived performance.

That's what I think too. Or possibly she saw other options that interested her more. She was flirting with several other guys during the night too don't forget.

 

[SteR]

I think a lot of guys are so into "game" becaue they don't have anything else going for them (not talking about anyone in this thread by the way). So they get into game and build it up in their heads as the one factor that trumps everything else with women. But I still say the one thing that most creates attraction in a woman is value. If you have value, you won't have to work very hard for the girl.

I agree but how do you show you're high value? Considering value is subjective, you either have to hope that you have the traits she desires, and thereby hope she shows interest from the get go or resort to making her see that you're highly desirable by other women.

Personally I've always just tried to have fun with as many girls as possible so that if they do start throwing themselves at me (regardless of whether I'm interested in them), It'll work in my favour for getting the girls I do want (social proof or whatever you wanna call it).

That's what I think too. Or possibly she saw other options that interested her more. She was flirting with several other guys during the night too don't forget.

That's certainly a possibility. I do accept that sometimes I'm just not guy she wants and someone else is. In this situation though, I do feel I had the edge over the other guys.. I had her laughing, was very touchy with her and honestly felt I had her by the short and curlies.

I'm just wondering now whether I was too desperate in the club, ie. maybe I should've just found her later like she requested. But to me, that sounds like "I'm gonna look around for other guys and if you're still about later, we'll hook up".

I think I'm getting to the point where I'm over-analysing the whole situation... it doesn't seem like there's anything obvious I screwed up on. Who knows