So I met this stripper (the conclusion)

[Bigpapa]

You obviously missed the point.

Not really

he said from the get go that he wants to push his limits and see where it goes

as long as a woman means good times , what does it matter what she does for living ?

If you would think about , all the people working in banks as an example are trying to screw you ... why a woman working in banking should be higher value than a stripper or an escort ?

at least a stripper Is honest from the get go . I value this more than anything else

 

[Çharismo]

Not really

he said from the get go that he wants to push his limits and see where it goes

as long as a woman means good times , what does it matter what she does for living ?

If you would think about , all the people working in banks as an example are trying to screw you ... why a woman working in banking should be higher value than a stripper or an escort ?

at least a stripper Is honest from the get go . I value this more than anything else

Good for you.

 

[bat soup]

There is nothing wrong with banging a hot biatch like this, but you don't want to get emotionally involved. At the end of the day she's basically a prostitute with a lifetime of experience deceiving and taking money from men. If she thinks telling you about some of the guys she's shafted is a good topic of conversation just before asking if you want a relationship, imagine what she's not telling you.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

First of all, thanks for the in-depth responses. Gives me something to think through...

Not good in what way? Not good in the sense she won't play along anymore because she's in it for a different reason than yourself? Are you telling me only 5% of women would be comfortable with a casual/fwb situation? Doesn't seem to line up with the promiscuity of women so extensively spoken about on this forum. Why would a woman who is in the game for the exact same thing as you decline on exactly the type of deal she wants?

Not good in the sense that things are still developing. If it's the first few dates, there is no need to go into depth about what either party wants. The dynamic is not that serious so the focus should be more on having fun. Going into depth about your intention, in the beginning, can ruin the dynamic by causing unnecessary over-analysis for both parties.

I wouldn't mind casually mentioning "I'm not looking for anything serious" or "I'm just looking for fun", if that causes a hang-up in her then you know it doesn't align with what she seeks. If she's unbothered by it then you can assume she's fine with that type of thing, you can never be sure but at least then it's her responsibility for ending up hurt if she chose to conceal her true intention of something more.

Many people don't explicitly state their desire to have a relationship, because that's "business like" and often to much to think about too early. So it is often assumed in dating that it is to explore a potential relationship. I agree in this case to not be explicit until "the talk" happens. Because of this I think it's appropriate to be explicit about NOT being in the dating market for a potential relationship, to avoid wasting everyones time, contribute to a less chaotic dating market, less hurt feelings and perhaps even find better and more drama free casual relationships.

Clearly she didn't get the message, infatuation doesn't just make men blind. She will rationalize all of that away and still think she has a chance to get in a relationship with you. If she's blinded enough you could even straight up tell her there's no chance in hell you'd enter a relationship, and she still would stick around in the hope you'll change your mind. Infatuation is a hell of a drug.

That's a poor way to formulate it, casually saying "I just want to have fun" is usually a good way to get the message across without killing the vibe (that is if she also just want nothing more than some fun).

How effective was your communication towards this girl before she called you out? Not much at all if you ask me.

You make some fair points. I don't disagree that occasionally saying that you're "just looking for fun" is a bad thing. I've done it in the past. However, I guess my point was that if you don't label the relationship, you have more optionality about where you take it. If you immediately frame it as casual from day #1, a lot of girls will just instantly check out without giving you a chance because of the negative associations.

And yeah, it wasn't effective because in the end, I gave in! I should have reframed the situation and said "woah, we just met. I am not thinking about anything serious. Let's just enjoy each other and have fun." I'm pretty sure she would have agreed and things would have been more lighthearted after that. And who knows where things could have went after that? We could have had a unique dynamic going that she would have rejected flat out if I said I was just trying to have fun. But I did manage to save it and she said that she's down for me to come visit her (so we're still on relatively good terms).

At the end of the day, I think what we are talking about is two different styles. I don't like being so verbal/open about where things are going from day #1. I like to simply not say anything and lead with action letting things develop as time goes on. I think the other thing we are arguing about is of a more ethical orientation but I don't think what I did was very unethical. I was respectful, told her the truth and otherwise provided her with a good time and some good d*ck haha.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

when everyone is paying and you are not , it means that you are quite a skilled seducer

Exactly. Most guys I know can't game strippers effectively including myself. I don't usually succeed as they are usually in high demand. I'm not saying I am some uber badass but I am saying that my development in game has allowed me to hold the frame with girls that are usually known as man eaters.

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

Look man...there is no “lol” or “lmao” in dealing with strippers because they are dangerous individuals. Most of them were sexually abused at a young age, have crazy ex boyfriends, are involved in drugs and are basically prostitutes for anyone that has money. A lot of women think that it’s a “sexy” profession which is hardly true. It’s a dirty job but someone’s gotta do it.

You are no different. Just another notch under her belt. There is nothing alpha in having sex with a stripper. What I find perplexing is to why you need to spend New Years with her and bring her around your family? She was giving you an insight into her life when she told you about all the other guys that she has “hustled” and don’t be surprised that she has banged most of them.

Strippers are the lowest class of women you could deal with. They are basically equivalent to porn stars except that they are not having sex on camera. I believe deep down inside you know the truth about this situation and how you need to raise your standards but seem like you need some confirmation and validation about what you did.

Beware and don’t involve yourself with any strippers again. You can do better.

Thanks for the comment. Yeah, I know I can do better. This was not me trying to set up an LTR but one again, strippers and porn stars are high value sexual commodities so gaming them is a bit tougher especially holding the frame. That is why I think it's worth mentioning. To me, its more impressive if someone makes a plate out of a high value stripper then some plain jane from Bumblef*cksville. The former requires more skill. Also my family is totally cool with me bringing plates so that's why I didn't think it to be serious...

 

[SpartanWarrior77]

Ok, So you had great sex, then woke her up in the middle of the night for a BJ?.. Wish I could've heard that
Convo.. Sweety wake up wake up nudge nudge. (her, what what is everything ok? (you, ya um I want a blojob.
You want a what?? A corndog? No a blojob. (her , what time is it? Wipes her eyes. (you, it's three.

That's a new one on me. We'll call it the dazed & confused BJ, so she wakes up with no memory of it..

Lol yeah man, its a common occurence.

 

[King Lion]

I swear, some of you guys put waaaaaaaay too much value on sex!

At what point do men draw the line and make themselves their own mental point of origin unapologetically?

At the "point" they find themself having "to drive 2 hours and pay expensive tolls to get to her...then purchased tickets to a nice museum, got some alcohol...and would end up buying some food later" trying to run game on a stripper - just to get laid!

My mom said "You're an idiot. You shouldn't have said that. You should have kept things as vague as possible."

She knows what she's talking about!

Sex workers are all about the MACK-A-RONI and getting paid- Not the matrimony - That's why they are in that life!

If she's from the streets and in 'The Life' she most certainly knows what turns men on and (as she told you) how to get paid!

Run game on these types of females if you want to have her working for and PAYING YOU, not just laying you!

Wasting time by gaming & spending money on a stripper just to get laid - Is not unique - It's Beta and Trickin'!

 

[Serenity]

At the end of the day, I think what we are talking about is two different styles. I don't like being so verbal/open about where things are going from day #1. I like to simply not say anything and lead with action letting things develop as time goes on. I think the other thing we are arguing about is of a more ethical orientation but I don't think what I did was very unethical. I was respectful, told her the truth and otherwise provided her with a good time and some good d*ck haha.

Apparently when women use this "style" it's called leading on and I'm pretty sure there's a large number of men who would say it's unethical to do so.

To your credit you didn't lie when confronted and this didn't progress that far before it was clarified. There's a good number of both men and women who in your shoes would have lied endlessly to keep taking advantage.

Clarifying my intention probably wouldn't be the first thing I said to a woman, I don't totally disagree with your approach. I would disclose my intention the moment it's clear to me she wants something more while I don't or if she asks. There's always a risk for someone to get hurt in these types of situations, but knowingly causing it is for damn sure not ethical.

Your initial reasoning in this thread implied that you were well aware that you hurt her, but didn't give a fvck because she had done so too towards men. Even though I can kinda go along with seeing how it develops first, I will not accept such poor reasoning and malicious intent. You don't strike me as a man who wishes to cause harm, am I wrong?

 

[Çharismo]

I swear, some of you guys put waaaaaaaay too much value on sex!


At the "point" they find themself having "to drive 2 hours and pay expensive tolls to get to her...then purchased tickets to a nice museum, got some alcohol...and would end up buying some food later" trying to run game on a stripper - just to get laid!



She knows what she's talking about!

Sex workers are all about the MACK-A-RONI and getting paid- Not the matrimony - That's why they are in that life!

If she's from the streets and in 'The Life' she most certainly knows what turns men on and (as she told you) how to get paid!

Run game on these types of females if you want to have her working for and PAYING YOU, not just laying you!

Wasting time by gaming & spending money on a stripper just to get laid - Is not unique - It's Beta and Trickin'!

Give this man a medal!!! Bravo!!

 

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Your mom is spot on OP. I’ve been in the game for 30+ years and know it very well.

I concur with @Serenity and @King Lion in this thread.

It is early in the interaction. She gave up sex because she had genuine desire but also she is accustomed to men going gaga over her upon her giving them sex. She expected you to pedestalize her after sex. You didn’t and she got insecure (“You don’t like me well enough, etc.”)

Here’s where you misplayed it. You overtly told her you didn’t want a relationship etc. This feeds her insecurity overtly and so she bailed. That’s why your mom said keep it ambiguous. Anybody who knows game knows it’s an unspoken ambiguous dance early on. You took away the ambiguousness and were too direct. So she likely feels used & dismissed. So she bailed. That’s not a win.

Seduction is about suggestion and ambiguity. You went concrete and blew yourself out. Learn for next time.

Cheers

 

[King Lion]

Advice from the old lady:

Your mom is spot on OP. I’ve been in the game for 30+ years and know it very well.

I concur with @Serenity and @King Lion in this thread.

It is early in the interaction. She gave up sex because she had genuine desire but also she is accustomed to men going gaga over her upon her giving them sex. She expected you to pedestalize her after sex. You didn’t and she got insecure (“You don’t like me well enough, etc.”)

Here’s where you misplayed it. You overtly told her you didn’t want a relationship etc. This feeds her insecurity overtly and so she bailed. That’s why your mom said keep it ambiguous. Anybody who knows game knows it’s an unspoken ambiguous dance early on. You took away the ambiguousness and were too direct. So she likely feels used & dismissed. So she bailed. That’s not a win.

Seduction is about suggestion and ambiguity. You went concrete and blew yourself out. Learn for next time.

Cheers

IMHO, he "blew it" the minute he forgot about "romance" and selfishly "woke her up in the middle of the night for a BJ" like she was a hooker on the clock.

 

[bat soup]

Advice from the old lady:

Your mom is spot on OP. I’ve been in the game for 30+ years and know it very well.

I concur with @Serenity and @King Lion in this thread.

It is early in the interaction. She gave up sex because she had genuine desire but also she is accustomed to men going gaga over her upon her giving them sex. She expected you to pedestalize her after sex. You didn’t and she got insecure (“You don’t like me well enough, etc.”)

Here’s where you misplayed it. You overtly told her you didn’t want a relationship etc. This feeds her insecurity overtly and so she bailed. That’s why your mom said keep it ambiguous. Anybody who knows game knows it’s an unspoken ambiguous dance early on. You took away the ambiguousness and were too direct. So she likely feels used & dismissed. So she bailed. That’s not a win.

Seduction is about suggestion and ambiguity. You went concrete and blew yourself out. Learn for next time.

Cheers

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind next time a prostitute/stripper is trying to get me into a relationship.

 

[BeExcellent]

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind next time a prostitute/stripper is trying to get me into a relationship.

The point is it doesn’t matter who she is. Highly desirable women (meaning lots of attention from men) come in many flavors...
Stripper, Bartender, Model, Instagram AW, Beauty Pageant girls, sorority women, most any legit 8, 9 or 10.

Women like this are ALWAYS subject to male attention. Simps, alphas, players, whatever type of man...these women get noticed non-stop. High quality or low quality their appearance is what men see first. Y’all know that of course. Gaming a stripper is not significantly different than gaming a socialite.

Keep it ambiguous. Period. It will keep you mysterious and allow her to wonder about you, whoever she is.

Seduction is mental first, always. Doesn’t matter who you are seducing.

 

[bat soup]

The point is it doesn’t matter who she is. Highly desirable women (meaning lots of attention from men) come in many flavors...
Stripper, Bartender, Model, Instagram AW, Beauty Pageant girls, sorority women, most any legit 8, 9 or 10.

Women like this are ALWAYS subject to male attention. Simps, alphas, players, whatever type of man...these women get noticed non-stop. High quality or low quality their appearance is what men see first. Y’all know that of course. Gaming a stripper is not significantly different than gaming a socialite.

Keep it ambiguous. Period. It will keep you mysterious and allow her to wonder about you, whoever she is.

Seduction is mental first, always. Doesn’t matter who you are seducing.

Yes, I know that. I just thought it was funny who the target was in this case. I agree with you that at some level all women are the same in terms of how their emotions work.

This is actually quite an interesting topic. I think that, generally speaking, men would much rather that a person is direct and open about their intentions but with women it's kind of the opposite. They actually want the mystery and the uncertainty.

 

[Bigpapa]

The point is it doesn’t matter who she is. Highly desirable women (meaning lots of attention from men) come in many flavors...
Stripper, Bartender, Model, Instagram AW, Beauty Pageant girls, sorority women, most any legit 8, 9 or 10.

Women like this are ALWAYS subject to male attention. Simps, alphas, players, whatever type of man...these women get noticed non-stop. High quality or low quality their appearance is what men see first. Y’all know that of course. Gaming a stripper is not significantly different than gaming a socialite.

Keep it ambiguous. Period. It will keep you mysterious and allow her to wonder about you, whoever she is.

Seduction is mental first, always. Doesn’t matter who you are seducing.

depends on the case , some like the ambiguity and some want to be sure that you like them before they let guard down

depends how insecure the girl is , and all of them are

 

[r4zorsharp]

You come off as a really good guy man, albeit it's obvious that most smart dudes would not want to have a relationship with a stripper who tells you how she would hustle dudes.

Why would any dude feel bad? Most dude's wouldn't. But good post none the less.

 

[BeExcellent]

Yes, I know that. I just thought it was funny who the target was in this case. I agree with you that at some level all women are the same in terms of how their emotions work.

This is actually quite an interesting topic. I think that, generally speaking, men would much rather that a person is direct and open about their intentions but with women it's kind of the opposite. They actually want the mystery and the uncertainty.

It’s more nuanced than that. I’ll share more tomorrow...headed out to ring in 2021